Momodot,
You are right on target. This is one of the things we are doing for FS 5.0.
Laslo  

Ah stability....return from a stay in the hospital and things are exactly as they were.....the claims are made for the program but the results don't reflect the claims, a challenge was made and accepted by several but fizzled when some structure was requested to make it an actual viable challenge, all things program related  are explained away as user error but the next release will fix all the "issues", and on and on and on....SSDD

Ya know Laslo, as a person you make a real good politician so why not drop the snake oil you're selling and go where the real money trough is, gov't.:lol:

**lisarichie
It pains me that you mistake me for a politician. I am a software developer and has been for 20 some years. We are trying to develop a good solution for a needed product. As the former Marketing Director for Poser, I noticed how poorly Poser's FaceRoom performs. Hence came the idea in 2006 to develop a system that:

1. Works on ALL heads, not just some
2. Works better than FaceRoom.
   Thus we developed FaceShop. It is not perfect, I agree. Neither are any of the competing products (FaceGen, for example, costing a lot more).
   Why are there no perfect solutions? Because the premise - to make a solid 3D head based on a photograph - is very difficult. 
   I think we have made progress since FS 3.1 was introduced in 2007. FaceShop 5.0 is due in November and will have new tools that should help. We will continue to make progress. We will never be perfect, as there are many variables that influence the end product. One is the skill and artistry of the person wielding these tools.
   I've been working with FaceShop for 3 years and can still make mistakes. When that happens, I don't give up or start a blame game, just sit down and try to figure out what went wrong and then do it again.
   I don't recommend that everyone takes this route - there are people who do not have the time or inclination. For those who do, I believe that FaceShop can be a very rewarding experience.
   Sincerely,
   Laslo** 

Oh I don't mistake you for a politician I just believe you would be more successful at politics than software development..... :lol:

But anyway neither of us is going to budge on the issues...You indicate repeatedly that there are no issues in one breath then in the next claim the forthcoming upgrade will fix the problems and me, until you deliver a piece of software that works as claimed, I will continue to maintain my stance.

However due to the insinuation you made in an open forum regarding a serial # when attempting to upgrade to FS 3.5, I won't ever be one of your customers again....you make it personal, I take it personal. Though, should you ever produce a viable version of the software, I will extend the courtesy of refraining to tell others to avoid you and your products.

Cheer up, way things are looking you'll probably win by default without having to provide the product in good working order.

Quote -
Momodot,
You are right on target. This is one of the things we are doing for FS 5.0.
Laslo  

THAT will be something to see.

Now I'm eagerly awaiting version 5.0. You just made my day.

Have you managed to solve the graphical corruption issues in Vista and presumably Win7?

Were that the case, you'd make my whole week.

i've been trying to stay tuned to this thread.  I have never used face gen, but i spent a lot of time working on and trying Face Shop.  everything was great until i imported it back into poser and had to dial the dials back, -- THEN my morph completely disappeared and i was back to the default look - all that time spent trying to get away from it - only to have it right back again =( 
i've never tried FaceGen - i'd like to but it is out of my pocketbook range right now.  I'd like to hear about other pples experience with it - if anyone would care to share their experiences?  Also, are there other aps out there which actually give good results?
thanks everyone

As long as you're willing to create a texture in another program and create a character morph in another program, faceshop works well in creating textures and character morphs.

I've been on both sides of this fence, started with 3.1 and XP, no problems.  3.5 under Vista wouldn't work, crashed all the time.  Windows 7 and everything works as advertised but I haven't really played with the morph or texture brushes..

 Faceshop 5 for the Mac is very buggy and crashes a lot. It's as if it hasn't been really tested thoroughly prior to release. I keep getting the following:

Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)

Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000008

Quote -  Faceshop 5 for the Mac is very buggy and crashes a lot. It's as if it hasn't been really tested thoroughly prior to release.

Why am I not surprised...?

 I just finished trying the free version of FaceGen. it is everything that Faceshop is not: polished, bug free, easy and fun to use. Its biggest disadvantage is that it is difficult to integrate it with Poser, but if the company that makes comes through with their promise of releasing a version that works well with Poser later this year, then I will be definitely getting that instead of stickling with Faceshop.

 Problem with Face Gen is those terrible ears and too few nostril morphs... you can export the head with all expression morphs though to use on as a parented prop on a Poser figure if you are willing to hide or post work the neck. Maybe could make a transmap to just use the face as a mask on a Poser head?

 I would just wait for them to deliver on their promise of releasing an app that plays nice with Poser in the summer of this year.

http://www.facegen.com/customizer_tutorial.htm

Yes indeed, I anxiously await that as well.

Quote - It's threads like this that make me realize that Poser people just want a "Make Art" button. Pathetic really . . . . :O)

It's ridiculous generalisations like this that make me realise just how self-centred and blind to others' experiences and views some people can be. Pathetic really.... :O)

Well, here is another lazy, whining moron who can't be bothered to lift a finger or turn a tutorial page and has had such big problems with the stability and usefulness of this software that I no longer want anything to do with it.

Good luck with your challenge, but don't make the mistake of believing that it will prove you right.

Quote - Faceshop 4, one pass, no alteration of the texture.  Dial morph at 1.000, no other dials turned.  Not perfect but close.

Mmm, you and I must have a different perception of 'close'. What you seem to have here is a photo of an actress mapped onto a virtually unmorphed V4 (at least, I don't see much of a morph in use here - maybe the lighting isn't helping). I can achieve this in two minutes using Photoshop to position the photo over the V4 templates.
Not a great example really.

Quote - > Quote - Faceshop 4, one pass, no alteration of the texture.  Dial morph at 1.000, no other dials turned.  Not perfect but close.

Mmm, you and I must have a different perception of 'close'. What you seem to have here is a photo of an actress mapped onto a virtually unmorphed V4 (at least, I don't see much of a morph in use here - maybe the lighting isn't helping). I can achieve this in two minutes using Photoshop to position the photo over the V4 templates.
Not a great example really.

I was gonna say the same thing...

Quote -
**
Why are there no perfect solutions? Because the premise - to make a solid 3D head based on a photograph - is very difficult.** 

Laslo, this premise is more than difficult (in the way FS works) - it's actually impossible.

In truth, I'm not sure it is really possible to create such a morph from just one photo - not without some VERY clever analysis of cast shadows (which arn't always present in photos) and cross-reference with hundreds (if not thousands) of pre sampled 3d heads in order to assess a 'best guess' on averaged results. I'm pretty sure FS isn't doing either of these.
That's how I understand it anyway.

I think you should more clearly reflect this in the FS marketing, and (as I've communicated directly to you before) strive to improve the core functionality of the app to work efficiently with Front and Profile images in an orthographic space.

  cross-reference with hundreds (if not thousands) of pre sampled 3d heads <<<

I am not a programmer, nor do I have any insight into how FaceGen works other than that as a user. But it's my understanding that the  "Mean Face" in FaceGen serves exactly that purpose. The mean face appears to be a neutral starting point that can accomodate various traits such as age and ethnicity.

I'm not sure how the new version will work, whether or not it will use a similar approach. Being that the link on the FaceGen site says that the integration will be easier, I'm really really excited about what might be coming!

I just wish FaceGen wasn't quite so expensive - having to buy two costly apps becomes prohibitive.
In fairness though, it's probably worth the price.

 According to their website, FaceGen is licensed by a number of gaming companies as well as used by different universities for research, which could partly explain the price.

http://www.facegen.com/about.htm

I am using an older version of Faceshop ( Faceshop 6 ) because it works on my Mac. I created a head for Michael 4, so I ended up with an Obj file and the Bmp file ( which i edited in Photoshop). I am using Poser Pro 2012 and I am wondering in what directories I put the two files or what extra steps i need to take to get the new head on a Michael 4 in poser? I don't use Daz studio as it never recognizes my Micheal or Victoria models and I would like to only ise poser if possible. I looked through the tiny read me file that came with Faceshop 6 an watched the video but it ends without explaining what to do with the the two files. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Faceshop doesnt work well and I stopped using many years ago. From memory - go to M4 character select head and click on properties. Click on load morph target and search for the object file you have. Select OK. Then go back to parameters and find morph at the bottom of the list. Dial it up to about 0.8. If it is a decent morph that should be 1. It wont be. Next click on material tab, select face and find the image connected to the diffuse channel. Click on browse and look for the bmp file. (If you have photoshop id convert it to a jpeg to save memory but should work with BMP. Render - done