Hi Everyone!

Im looking for honest opinions on what in this image stands out as unrealistic or out of place. Although I'm not trying to go for "hyper realism" I do want it to look very realistic.

A few things I noticed :

Fingers are not resting on the car
black "creases" on the car should be same color as body, not black
underside of bumber should be same color as body
V4's bum should be flatter on the bonnet
car body reflections should be slightly stronger (opinions on this?)

thanks for any feedback!

the skin texture on the V-chick looks uber fake compared to rest of textures in the image. IMHO.

I agree with Wolf. Something doesn't sit well with me with her skin.

I think the hands would look more natural if the fingers were pointing more outward
than back.  Roughly aimed toward the side mirrors.
The straight-back position you've used is possible but would be painful.

Skin and paint look OK to me, given that the overall lighting feels "cloudy" or shadowed
by buildings.

There is nearly a total lack of contrast on the figures skin compared to the car & the stonemason set, her legs almost appear to have a pink "glow" like some sort of Forced SSS shader is in play.

Cheers

Im new to using VSS, any tips on how to fix the skin?  it looks really nice up close, Im using Lana Elite, I might try using one of the other Elite skins. I'll post another image soon with the above changes

I noticed the skin, too, and suspected it was VSS.

Because the rest of the scene is not GC'd you are using a lot of light, which nevertheless gave ockham the impression it is a cloudy day.

Meanwhile, the figure looks like she's inside a furnace.

I'd either GC the whole setup, or drop the GC down on the figure. You're basically using extra light to do the work GC should be doing, so the figure is basically double GC'd.

so thats just modifying the Gamma number to a lower number from 2.2 on each skin material?

can I edit the prop material and re-synch?  If so, how do I get it to only sync V4, and not the car, the buildings and the sky?

Which Poser version are you using and are you using gamma correction?  Your light intensity is way too high.  Show us some settings, i.e., material room, light sets, etc.

Also, the reflection on the car doesn't look like it has a realistic Fresnel-effect, and is unbalanced because it isn't GC'd. The chrome on the mirror (?) on the fender also suffers from lack of GC.

Overall, the lighting isn't balanced because of GC problems. Parts look like they're in bright sun, others like a cloudy day.

What version of Poser is this? If Poser 8 or better, I'd be using IDL, too. I'm guessing this is IBL+AO, which ain't so great for realism. 

Quote - so thats just modifying the Gamma number to a lower number from 2.2 on each skin material?

can I edit the prop material and re-synch?  If so, how do I get it to only sync V4, and not the car, the buildings and the sky?

Yeah, edit the gamma in the Template_Skin material of the control prop and re-sync.

VSS will only affect materials it knows about, so it's not likely to touch other figures. But if that is a concern, you want to edit the "Apply Rules" material. It has a node in it called and this makes it apply to any figure. Instead, remove that, and use VSS Designer buttons to add a Rule node. Put the name of your V4 figure in. Then it will only apply to that figure.

If you have Poser 8, I'd use 1.3 and I'd use HSV ETM as a substitute for the remaining GC - it would help the whole scene. I use the D3D Render Firefly dialog and set the tone mapping gain and exponent both to 1.3. (I experimented a lot to find an easy-to-remember beginner's setting for HSVETM and it's 1.3 all the way.)

Synchronization will not affect the other models unless they share the same material zones listed within the VSSProp. 

Edit: Oops, I'm cross-posting with BB.

Im using Poser Pro 2010  my render settings are :

Ray Trace : on
Pixel Samples : 5
Min Shading : 0.005
IDL : on
Intensity : 1
Bounces : 5
Samples : 498
Irradiance Cache : 60

There is one infinite light source, at 75% with the slightest hint of yellow (like 1%) and a HDR Enviro Sphere of a sunny, mostly clear day using Ambient at 0.5 (no diffuse or spec)

I am absolutely clueless with GC, I will make the changes you said above, but I dont know how to gamma correct stuff that doesnt have a gamme node like vss :S

Whoa backup.

Pro 2010? OK set the GC in the figure to 1.

Use render GC at 2.2. Forget what I said about HSV ETM.

The Envsphere with IDL will do a good job if you enable render GC. Everything will get more in line.

I don't know what luminance is found in your EnvSphere HDR image, but if you want the same "exposure" as the original scene, your ambient value should be 1. This is not always true, but generally it is. I'd have to see the image to know for sure.

Are you using my EnvironmentSphere? Are you using my shader for it? If so, set the Gamma In = 1 and the Gamma Out = 1.

Im just using the Dimension3D sphere that comes with PP2010 with inverted normals scaled up
I set the ambient to 0.5 because it practically removed the shadows completely otherwise!

I've set the gamma on the skin to 1.0 and turned on the tone mapping thing (started rendering before you posted that)

the original image already have GC turned on at 2.2 (it defaults to on)

It's funny that you posted this today. I was just reminded yesterday that I had promised to post a sample scene showing how to light an outdoor setup with IDL. You're doing it.

This is just the sort of activity I love to get sucked into. Unfortunately, I have a big out-of-town meeting all day tomorrow so won't be around much to participate until tommorow night.

Ever since GI was "unlocked" in poser 7 ages ago, all I do is cars outdoor now :p

thankyou for all the help so far, the render is at 50% shouldnt be long now. I lowered the IDL settings a little to make it render faster as this is just a test

EDIT :

http://www.italianvillarentals.com/countryside/torre-orlando/big/SphericalImageCastello.jpg

Im using this as my enviro image

That image isn't HDR - no JPEG is HDR. It may have been made by assembling multiple exposures (an HDR construction technique) but it's not high dynamic range. HDR images are in HDR or EXR format, not JPEG.

I'll set it up on my Environment Sphere and see how it works.

Note: Setting the EnvSphere ambient to .5 would explain why the chrome looks weak. It wasn't lack of GC - it was lack of a bright sky to reflect.

skin gamma at 1.0
tone mapping (hsv) 1.3 1.3
Repositioned V4, fixed the hand positions

now that we've (read you) figured out it was gamma in the skin doing the damage, I will try it again at 1.0 on the next render.

And no tone mapping.

There should be a wind machine and she should be laying on the hood of the car with Whitesnake
playing in the background?  

sorry.. I just couldn't help myself!

The hands do look better turned out.  :)

her skin looks like she has sunburn.  make the VSS PR3 SSS color less red and more yellow.  remember, it's got to fake both dermal as well as subdermal scattering, and most textures have a lot of burned in SSS.

Any thoughts on this last version before I start the big render tonight?

Quote - Click to get a slightly larger version

Hi Everyone!

Im looking for honest opinions on what in this image stands out as unrealistic or out of place. Although I'm not trying to go for "hyper realism" I do want it to look very realistic.

A few things I noticed :

Fingers are not resting on the car
black "creases" on the car should be same color as body, not black
underside of bumber should be same color as body
V4's bum should be flatter on the bonnet
car body reflections should be slightly stronger (opinions on this?)

thanks for any feedback!

The skin is too pastel and glowing.  Ruins the photo.  But skin is more difficult to achieve than car metal.

Quote - Here is the latest, I think its looking pretty darn awesome now thanks to you lot!

Any thoughts on this last version before I start the big render tonight?

The car and the skin look better.  Only thing left to do now is get rid of the figure and use one that looks more human and less alien.  V4 may be to blame.  No human has eyes that big.

There is a bit too much shadow under her left hand-I'd try moving it even closer so it intersects the hood a bit.  Otherwise it is pretty awsome.

Thanx for starting an informative thread. :)

It looks good, tg.

You might try a few more experiments with the VSS parameters.

When rendering with IDL, I usually bump up the PM:Shine a bit, because there is so much more diffuse lighting from the IDL, it needs to be compensated. If IDL included specular effects, we'd not have to do that. But it doesn't. So we get no shine from the sky.

Try PM:Shine = .4.

You might also set PM:SSS down to .3 to remove some of the pink.

thanks for the tips bagginsbill. I will mess with shine and sss and when I find some good/interesting settings I'll re-render for feedback :p

you dont know how great it is to have you guys here!

Coming along well, too bad you had to dislocate her right knee to get that pose.:biggrin:

Personally I would add a little muscle flex to the left thigh and calf since both are under tension keeping her rear from sliding off the vintage metal.

The easiest way I've found to compensate for the problem joints is to find a photo of a similar pose and create a brush of the problem area to use as a guide in postworking the render.

You inspired me to revisit my car materials, particularly the paint.

I included a figure not for artistic purposes, but just to make sure I don't send the lighting into lala land. It's all too easy to push the light in the wrong direction and adjust the car shader to match. I know what skin is supposed to look like and I know the VSS shader is right, so how the figure looks tells me I have the lighting right.

Then I adjust the paint shader under those conditions.

Here's my white.

 Those car materials are pretty awesome.  And the surroundings remind of a certain outdoor tutorial scene I remember someone talking about (nudge, nudge ;)

Thanks V. Truth is, there's nothing to it. I have one infinite light at 75% and the environment sphere, just as TG is doing, rendered in Poser Pro 2010 with IDL and render GC turned on.

In Poser 7 with shader GC and IBL+AO, it's about the same.

In Poser 8, without render GC, things get trickier. Shader GC with IDL is the problem case.

 Gotcha.  And you have a HDR sky map on the EnvSphere?   That puddle material looks mighty tasty.  How do you do that?

 BB: That covers daylight, sure. But I've been having issue getting good natural night light, still.

Quote -  Gotcha.  And you have a HDR sky map on the EnvSphere?   That puddle material looks mighty tasty.  How do you do that?

The sky map I used is LDR.

Here's how I made the puddle shader. Using matmatic, I made a pavement shader, a water shader, and I mixed them. LOL It's just a test - not finished.

antigamma = PM(1, "Gamma")
gamma = 1 / antigamma def View(x):
 return EmptySurface(Alternate_Diffuse = x)

def AGC(x):
 return x ** antigamma

def GC(x):
 return x ** gamma

def PuddleMask(s=8):
 m = Clamp(3 * FractalSum(s, s, s, 2, 0, .45, .999))
 return m

def PavementSurface():
 clr = PMC(.3, "Pavement Color")
 clr1 = AGC(clr)
 clr2 = AGC(clr  + .1)
 dc = Spots(clr1, clr2, .1, 0, .25, 0, 2)
 diffuse = Clay(dc, .8, .5)
 output = GC(diffuse)
 s = EmptySurface()
 s.Alternate_Diffuse = output
 s.Bump = .1 * FractalSum(.2, .2, .2, 8, 0, .5, .7)
 return s, diffuse

def WaterSurface(under = BLACK, ripple = 0):
 s = EmptySurface()
 fresnel = TrueFresnel(1.33)
 reflect = AGC(Reflect())
 output = Blend(under, reflect, fresnel)
 output = GC(output)
 if ripple:
  if isNode(ripple):
   s.Bump = ripple
  else:
   s.Bump = ripple * FractalSum(1, 1, 1, 2, 0, .5, .93)
 s.Alternate_Diffuse = output
 return s

pavement, pdif = PavementSurface()
water = WaterSurface(pdif, .1)
refract = AGC(Refract(0, 1))
under = EmptySurface(Alternate_Diffuse = GC(refract))
refpuddles = Mix(under, WaterSurface(refract, .1), PuddleMask())

outputs += [
 "Test", Mix(pavement, water, PuddleMask())
]

 Okay thanks BB.  I still haven't taken a proper look at Matmatic but I guess it's high time I do.

Like moonlight?

Here I set my EnvSphere luminance to .01. It's not the best image, though - others might be better.

Using parameter dials, I set the infinite light color to .9, .9, 1, making it a bit blue. I set intensity to 10%.

 Cool. So adjusting the luminance is a good idea, then. Thanks!

Heres Nissan Cobalth Blue

Quote - I've noticed in your images, your tyre rubber looks a bit wrong,  here is my rubber shader

Not my rubber - that's how SM shipped it. I only set the paint, chrome, and glass. The rest is still whatever it came with.

BB, what am I doing wrong? I copy and pasted the matmatic script you gave above into Notepad and saved out as an mm1. I put the file in my MatmaticDemos folder in both Materials and Pose and then I ran the compile script. I got this error message.

verbose 1
Processing script C:Poser ProRuntimeLibrariesposeMatmaticDemosBasicPavement Puddle.mm1 -> pose
MATMATIC Script Error: name 'PM' is not defined
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:program filescurious labsposer 6runtimepythonmatmaticcompiler.py", line 233, in processScript
  File "C:Poser ProRuntimeLibrariesposeMatmaticDemosBasicPavement Puddle.mm1", line 1, in ?
    antigamma = PM(1, "Gamma")
NameError: name 'PM' is not defined

So, what am I doing wrong?

Quote - So, what am I doing wrong?

Whatever it is, I'm getting the same error. Looking into it now...

Sounds like a Parmatic node issue.

Quote - Sounds like a Parmatic node issue.

Yes, it's the Matmatic function used to create a shader node with a name that is recognisable to Parmatic - in this case "PM:Gamma".
I have some Matmatic scripts somewhere that I know work fine in this respect, I'm just trying to find one of them, but I went off on a tangent, as I so often do. (To tell the truth, it was closer to a radial).