V4 clothing - We've got enough, seriously.  I see new themed clothing packs all the time that seemed to be comprised of things I've already got 3 of by the same vendor.   Just because you rebundle it and make some flashy promos with a attitude-packed title, it's getting pretty transparent.  Oooooh, you included a skirt!  AWESOME.  Thigh-Highs?  WOW! 

The Up-Do and the 38 texture packs that inevitably follow.  Enough.  Our characters can attend a prom every day of the year and have a different Up-Do that looks pretty much like the others. 

And while I'm on hair - Straight hair, parted down the middle, ho-hum, boring....who doesn't have 50 of these?  Who sits down and says "MY straight hair parted down the middle is going to be so much more awesome than the previous 75 attempts!" 

2d Background Packs - Hello?  2d?  Really?  I'm talking about the ones with couches and stools and chairs and other things that should be sold to me in 3d. 

Angelina Jolie Character Packs - We get it, she's hot.  She's so hot she's got 30 virtual clones in the marketplace and in freestuff, not to mention other sites.  Can't anyone get to work on someone else?

I'm sure I must've missed something, but lately, every day I peruse the marketplace and groan, slap my forehead, say "*Really???" *and go away dejected and empty-handed.  A stagnant market reflects the community.

Need:  more Long, curly hair...loose curls, messy curls, straight hair that turns into curls towards the tips, both messy and clean versions.  

Need:  Fygomatic to sell his characters.

Need:  More animation packs

Need:  More detailed settings

Need:  Money to buy these things

End Rant, thanks for your total agreement. 

I think we need more rants by William...

And if they don't listen, the he should live up to his name and things should get all messy and bloody... :-)

Having a look at "What's Hot"... who defines this?? Because that's what vendors look at and say: "yep, can do..." and we get a glut of it.

Some things coming out now are fresh and original, but I agree: much of the same-ol' same-ol' happening. I guess the MP doesn't have a same-ol' filter... :lol:

 I'm mainly a hobby artist, and every single product I've released here is something I needed myself but couldn't find anywhere else to my satisfaction.. :) Most of it consists of dynamic clothes for V4 that I need for my projects.. It's getting better in that department, but was pretty horrible just half a year ago.. 

I totally hear ya on long, wavy and curly hair..

Couldn't find anything.. Worked around it mostly by making custom morphs.. Some of the hairs by bice & outoftouch work for this, along with tons of work with the morph tool :)

The combination of working on a clothing or item for a project, then also releasing it into the marketplace is really fun and rewarding for sure.

How about a moratorium on the entire marketplace until they allow one to filter by category AND sort by release date? When I look for specific items, I want to see new stuff first, particularly since I usually am searching for hair items, and I've already seen most of them the last time I ran a search. This makes it difficult for me to find something to buy. I know that can't be on purpose.

As far as hair: when you make long hair, please DON'T make the parts below the neck conforming. Make them posable, and make them children of the head actor.

I also agree with WTB on his points above :) However, I think he should change his handle to William The Ferocious :P

How about William The Spot-On? ;) I don't use V4 very often so 90% of the market is of no interest to me & I'm sure I'm not alone, it's time for a shake up & clear out in the market.

It is a shame that these things happen, and of course keep happening, however this isn't a problem you can direct only at the merchants.

If you want to sell something, and sell well, then you have to follow market forces.  Whats Hot is probably the only place where merchants can get an idea about what is selling well.

As far as I understand it, the Whats Hot section is mostly down to the number of sales a product has had (in an unknown time period).  With this in mind it is a reflection of what customers are buying most of.

Take a look in there and it is comprised of a few categories.

Sexy
Multipurpose (non generic enought to be used in many different scene types)
Something to update V4
Unique and Must Buy

Now it would be brilliant if every product in there was in the last category, but that isn't going to happen, no matter how hard people try.

This opens up the question "how do merchants get a better idea of what will sell, if not from a list of products which are selling well?"

John

If an item is really unique, it probably caters to fewer people, who need that very unique and specific item in their project..

Quote - If an item is really unique, it probably caters to fewer people, who need that very unique and specific item in their project..

You're absolutely right. I'm one of the vendors who tries to create something else, something that isn't done by everyone else. I'm not always succeed at that, but I try my best.

Lately I've been wondering if it's even worth it...... Modeling and so on takes a lot of time and if the items are hardly selling. All the what has been done a 1000 times before get's all the attention. My stuff is snowed under by yet another we've seen it all before release. The market place is so crowded that it's hard to get noticed or as a customer it's hard to find what you're looking for.

I love modeling, but lately I'm tempted to switch tactics and create what everyone wants, at least I may make some more sales that way.

I think a balance is the way to go.  Do some pop stuff to pay your bills, then a unique one to keep your integrity :)

John

Well, in mild defense of the merchants, pick up a local sales papers and you'll see the same thing happens with RL clothes.

Besides I need more thongs and mid riff exposing armour missing the base morphs so my naked vicky in the temple will fight harder.:lol:

I did see a pretty decent looking long hair on RDNA the other day by Lady Littlefox....long, sides held back with clips and curls down the back.

To Poser modelers/vendors:

 -More styles; less lingere type clothing for V4. Get a clothes catalog for pete's sake....visit a fabric store and look at their patterns.

-buy a hair style book or search the web: How many Poser hair sets do you see in a "real hair" version?

-More clotes for M4.

-More Sets: buildings backlots etc.....I DON'T need another freakin Castle.

I've gotten to where I don't even look at the Marketplace but once or twice a month. If those dang Dinosaurs werent so high dollar that's about all I'd be picking up.

 The main reason I started modelling my own dynamic clothes was because I couldn't find a pair of decent UV mapped dynamic pants for V4.. I wanted nice casual dynamic clothes but they were hard to find...

If I need clothing for something and I can't find what I need.. I start modelling it.. Chances are that someone else will be interested in it too... 

I support some of what is said here. I use V4 almost exclusively and I DO BUY A LOT of items from here and DAZ. What I identify with the most in the above statements is the inability to get our desires for new products voiced in a manner that helps vendors choose their next product. I think there have been forum topics before called "Desired items" or such, but they usually fill up so fast they become useless with hundred and hundreds of individual requests. A vendor would have to be a patient person to wade through all of that. If there was a means by which similar requests were grouped and tabulated, that might help vendors. I believe some vendors (I'm thinking it was Aery Soul) previously asked for suggestions for future products. Maybe someone should take a poll of what is needed and desired (I.e. "Of 200 responses, 98 people said long wavy hair was their most desired product, followed by 55 that wanted more face morphs for V4, followed by ...etc...etc".) I think that's pretty basic market research and maybe even something Renderosity should do for its vendors.

Thanks

We definitely need more lingerie and skimpy bathing suits. I mean there is a myriad of ways you can make a bra and panties and they've only been made a billion times each. That isn't nearly enough.

please don't go on with this thread. it makes sense and will surely be locked if you continue ... or even entirely deleted.

you know, its strange how I was just thinking the same thing the other day.

nodding my head in total agreement

"There's nothing new under the sun."

;o)

Laurie

I think we need a forum for product reviews where negativity is allowed and buying the product is not necessarily a requirement.  Perhaps it could be anonymous somehow.  Each product released would get it's own thread, and when some thoughtless merchant releases another "thigh-high boots, skirt, vented tank-top" clothing pack, keen observers of the market can say "Really???  No, REALLY???" and maybe even post pics and links of past items which are the same thing or something that could easily have been made by using transmaps of something already existing.

An element of being called out...a gentle public shaming.  I know that as a society we've moved away from the possibility of shame and discomfort as a motivator to do better, maybe it's time to bring it back?  Ultimately it's up to people not to buy the same thing repeatedly, but in a world without repercussions merchants are free to goad the situation. 

Quote - I think we need a forum for product reviews where negativity is allowed and buying the product is not necessarily a requirement.  Perhaps it could be anonymous somehow.  Each product released would get it's own thread, and when some thoughtless merchant releases another "thigh-high boots, skirt, vented tank-top" clothing pack, keen observers of the market can say "Really???  No, REALLY???" and maybe even post pics and links of past items which are the same thing or something that could easily have been made by using transmaps of something already existing.

An element of being called out...a gentle public shaming.  I know that as a society we've moved away from the possibility of shame and discomfort as a motivator to do better, maybe it's time to bring it back?  Ultimately it's up to people not to buy the same thing repeatedly, but in a world without repercussions merchants are free to goad the situation. 

Will never happen...at least not here ;o). Not that I really want to embarrass a vendor really...not a nice thing. After all, anyone has a choice of what they buy and who they buy from, even if it's something that's already similar to what's already been released. But negativity isn't always a bad thing, until it turns into a round and round that'll never go anywhere ;o).

Having said that, I do miss the Complaint and Debate forum and The Chicken Coop...lol.

Laurie

Do the shamers have to own the previous items? I don't want to see complaints about new boots from people who don't buy any boots and just assume a new pair isn't needed

The more choice the merrier... Don't have to buy any of it but I'd prefer 1000 different styles and variations of the same thing to choose from rather than just 1

If the stuff didn't sell then the it wouldn't be produced, somebody is buying it therefore there's a markey for all the choice and variations therefore asking for it to be reduced is going to leave those people with less choice surely...?

No need to flesh out the proposal...it will never happen.  We're a society of coddlers these days; everything is beyond critique and the feelings of everyone must be protected at all times, lest they gain insight and experience personal growth from their errors.

I often hope 2012 is true, because this is the society we live in and it's going to hell for it.

 I would just like to disagree on the whole curly hair thing.  Way too many curly, wavy, ridiculous fantasy hairstyles out there.  We need more contemporary, straight hairstyles thank you very much.

Apart from that I agree 100% to everything in the OP.

If the vendors aren't meeting the needs of the people Rendo could always go communist.

Quote - The more choice the merrier... Don't have to buy any of it but I'd prefer 1000 different styles and variations of the same thing to choose from rather than just 1

If the stuff didn't sell then the it wouldn't be produced, somebody is buying it therefore there's a markey for all the choice and variations therefore asking for it to be reduced is going to leave those people with less choice surely...?

I fantasize that the variations would come by working on the product that's already been released.  Transmaps, displacment, morphs and new textures (of course.)  Instead, I have a cr2 folder with...let's see..40 mini-skirts.  Of these, probably 30 are standard, non-descript mini-skirts. 

Remember, we're talking about an article of  clothing that is essentially a cylinder with one group and the simplest UV mapping possible.

Edited to add:  40+mini-skirts is not even counting the Long skirts that just could've been tranmapped into minis, or the full dresses that could be transmapped to be all three

Quote -  I would just like to disagree on the whole curly hair thing.  Way too many curly, wavy, ridiculous fantasy hairstyles out there.  We need more contemporary, straight hairstyles thank you very much.

Apart from that I agree 100% to everything in the OP.

Ah, see, you included the description "Ridiculous" and "Fantasy" which is why so many curly hair options are useless.

 shrugs I don't have that many miniskirts in my inventory and I don't intend to add any that I don't need..  Products that nobody want sell less and are phased out anyway..

There are plenty of gaps and niches for content producers to move into.. That's what makes it so much fun. Someone likes to make hair, so they make hair.. I like dynamic clothing, so I make that.. If someone wants to make more skimpy party outfits, fine with me.. I like having a choice, like magic man says..

If you think something is missing, and you're a content producer, then make it, and sell it. Someone will be happy, and you'll probably make a good sale on something that's in demand. I have no desire to have a fashion police on an open community like this to start dictating what can and can't be sold. I think the renderosity staff is already doing a good job of keeping a decent minimum quality in the market place. Sure, there are some items that probably shouldn't be there, but I think that's part of having the store open to a lot of different vendors.

If there's a lot of content for Vicky, it's because she's a popular figure. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many people producing content for her.. I like it.  I totally agree that there are too few items for Michael when needed.. When something is needed that is missed, well, we should start creating those things..

We have a forum the marketplace wishing well. I go  there a lot and have suggested many things myself. What annoys me is that this forum is full of fresh ideas but seems to go ignored. I have said the same thing about clothing catalogs or even online catalogs like Old Navy or the GAP to get ideas.  Poses are my beef seems they are all the same with very little variation. It's like no one looks before they create you'll see an outfit come out that has been done by 3 different vendors just months before hand. Boots are another thing that has been ran into the ground. I would think it more complex and time consuming to model a pair of high heel boots or thigh highs then to make simple conforming flat shoes or sandals.

People complain about Daz using the same base meshes for their characters but it seems it's that way for all. You'll see and outfit and then another and another all using the basic mesh with a few tweaks and then packaging it as new.

Threads like this seem so misunderstood no one is asking for a reduction of anything actually people are asking for more not just the same mesh tweaked a thousand different ways to Sunday with flashy eye candy add-ons. As I said no one is asking for a reduction of anything just a fresher choices. From all the forums I've been to and reading threads just like this one says people are hungry and making them eat cake gets old.

I used to spend so much, much money on content and used to get so excited about shopping in the various marketplaces. But each month that goes on I spend less and become more disappointed and it's because I feel the same as William. I know I am  only one person with one wallet so big deal if I stop buying. But time and time again I see I am not the only one who feels this way and the numbers grow regardless what others think.  Take a look at the various forums around and you see these kinds of threads blowing everywhere.

This is the 3d world with so many talented people you can shake a stick at not a furniture store, not a car company, not a bedding manufacturer fresh ideas should be flowing like a wild river.

 Very nice looking. Would be fun to make. :) Haven't made any hair yet though, despite having tons of resources.

Quote - If the vendors aren't meeting the needs of the people Rendo could always go communist.

Hehehe Communist now if only people really understood what that means instead of going by what is told to them. Sorry I had to say that...hehehehe

Quote - No need to flesh out the proposal...it will never happen.  We're a society of coddlers these days; everything is beyond critique and the feelings of everyone must be protected at all times, lest they gain insight and experience personal growth from their errors.

A friend and I were against that so much we started our own discussion forums...lmao. Even brought back the Chicken Coop ;o).

Have I said I missed PoserPros? I think I have...lmao.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - If the vendors aren't meeting the needs of the people Rendo could always go communist.

Hehehe Communist now if only people really understood what that means instead of going by what is told to them. Sorry I had to say that...hehehehe

I just mean change Rendo to a command economy

It would help if DAZ would go along with it too

Isn't communist when you have no say? ;o). Just clarifyin'...lol.

Laurie

Communist is where someone other than the vendors have a say. Namely the Rendo admins

If customers already have a say then by all means don't go communist.

Quote - Communist is where someone other than the vendors have a say. Namely the Rendo admins

If customers already have a say then by all means don't go communist.

That would be a clean and efficient way to scare the vendors away from a community based on user created content, for sure.

You could make it a prerequisite that to buy from Rendo you can't have accounts at other stores

That way there would be a market here you couldn't reach elsewhere

Quote - Isn't communist when you have no say? ;o). Just clarifyin'...lol.

Laurie

Smiles Ahhh be careful don't want to get too political.

Quote - We have a forum the marketplace wishing well. ....

...no one is asking for a reduction of anything actually people are asking for more not just the same mesh ...
 
...I know I am  only one person with one wallet so big deal if I stop buying. ..

I went and looked in it. Sadly only about 5 to 6 wishes posted there, and the last one was back in May. I don't think the wishes of one person matter that much, as you allude to yourself. However, if one could show that 200 people wanted the item, that might be different. I also think your point of not rebuking those that offer the same thing over and over again, but rewarding those who offer something new and desired is more inline with traditional market theory.

I saw yesterday where CP said it was going to send out a survey to its customers asking for inputs for its store. I think Renderosity might do the same here and ask about desired new content. This seems so straightforward to me, just a part of market research, I can't imagine why vendors don't just ask what people want. Maybe it's because the nature of the vendors here are that they are individual artists first and salesmen second. They tend to make what they want and mistakenly believe others will want it too (the "my long straight hair will be better than those other long straight hairs" kind of attitude). That would explain a lot of the redundancy.

Thanks

Quote - > Quote - We have a forum the marketplace wishing well. ....

...no one is asking for a reduction of anything actually people are asking for more not just the same mesh ...
 
...I know I am  only one person with one wallet so big deal if I stop buying. ..

I went and looked in it. Sadly only about 5 to 6 wishes posted there, and the last one was back in May. I don't think the wishes of one person matter that much, as you allude to yourself. However, if one could show that 200 people wanted the item, that might be different. I also think your point of not rebuking those that offer the same thing over and over again, but rewarding those who offer something new and desired is more inline with traditional market theory.

 

I saw yesterday where CP said it was going to send out a survey to its customers asking for inputs for its store. I think Renderosity might do the same here and ask about desired new content. This seems so straightforward to me, just a part of market research, I can't imagine why vendors don't just ask what people want. Maybe it's because the nature of the vendors here are that they are individual artists first and salesmen second. They tend to make what they want and mistakenly believe others will want it too (the "my long straight hair will be better than those other long straight hairs" kind of attitude). That would explain a lot of the redundancy.

 

Thanks

I think you're right ;o).

Laurie

You know, maybe if the marketplace wishing well were "REQUIRED READING" for all merchants, it might be a busier place. I'm just sayin'. Some folks may not even know it's there at all if they're like me and link directly to the Poser Forum only for their daily reading.

Let me just say for the record there are vendors who do read the wishing well forum and have responded but they are only a few and can't fill the whims of the entire 3D community.

Quote - Let me just say for the record there are vendors who do read the wishing well forum and have responded but they are only a few and can't fill the whims of the entire 3D community.

Well, I'm all for trying the "system" out, so I shall post a request  down there.....

Thanks

There's also a freebie forum. I stumble in a bout twice a year;if I can get textures and sharp edges in Poser figured out, I'll deluge the freebie forum with off-the-wall stuff...

i've been wanting Victorian and Steampunk freebie stuff lately, I think the main thing I don't need is hair colors...;) I think I have 40 each of everything...;)

As for criticism, maybe what we need is constructive criticism; not so much what someone is doing wrong, but how they can make it better.

 Problem is, a lot of people ask for stuff.. and then, when someone makes it.. they're not buying it anyway.

There's a lot here (myself included) who has asked for everyday wear for Mike[insert current version]  but it's just not enough to WANT something if you aren't going to cough up the money once it's made.

And that's the biggest problem with the Wishing Well. I've visited it a lot in the past and several of my freebies are based on requests made there or here. And my freebies are apparently pretty attractive, judging from the number of downloads. If only the sales were anywhere like them, I'd be happy - AND I'd be making M4 clothes all day long. But with the current market, it's just not worth the effort. Too much work for like 5 items sold.

It has been repeated so many times that it has become a mantra here, but still.. Sex Sells. Skimpy stuff for the ladies. There's a few select things for the guys that DOES sell well, but overall.. stuff for the male characters just isn't selling as good as something skimpy for V4

I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not the vendor is trying to make a living on Poser items or just making a few extra bucks from their passion for making stuff. If I had the talent to create Poser stuff, I would make common everyday things and if they didn't sell too well, I really wouldn't care.
Alas, my skills in that arena are very meager to none.

Edited to add ... if I were a vendor trying to make a lot of my living wage form this stuff, I would be creating some dazzling skimpwear.

Quote -  Problem is, a lot of people ask for stuff.. and then, when someone makes it.. they're not buying it anyway.

There's a lot here (myself included) who has asked for everyday wear for Mike[insert current version]  but it's just not enough to WANT something if you aren't going to cough up the money once it's made.

And that's the biggest problem with the Wishing Well. I've visited it a lot in the past and several of my freebies are based on requests made there or here. And my freebies are apparently pretty attractive, judging from the number of downloads. If only the sales were anywhere like them, I'd be happy - AND I'd be making M4 clothes all day long. But with the current market, it's just not worth the effort. Too much work for like 5 items sold.

It has been repeated so many times that it has become a mantra here, but still.. Sex Sells. Skimpy stuff for the ladies. There's a few select things for the guys that DOES sell well, but overall.. stuff for the male characters just isn't selling as good as something skimpy for V4

Quote - There's also a freebie forum. I stumble in a bout twice a year;if I can get textures and sharp edges in Poser figured out, I'll deluge the freebie forum with off-the-wall stuff...
...
As for criticism, maybe what we need is constructive criticism; not so much what someone is doing wrong, but how they can make it better.

I did post a freebie request either here or at DAZ (or both) for a hair brush about 18 to 24 months ago. Seemed like a pretty simple thing for V4 that a lot of people would like. Never got a single reply offering to help. Maybe it's better today then back then. I found a really bad one somewhere (had about 20 teeth in it) and modified it to work for me (which I guess was a good learning experience). Still, it turned me off the "Single voice crying in the wilderness" approach. There are some hair brushes available today by the way, but if they stemmed from my request, the turn around is about 16 months.

I agree with you on the constructive route to prodding vendors forward.

I did post a request down in the Wishing Well forum today as I said I would. Maybe dphoadley should post his request there too....

Quote - You know, maybe if the marketplace wishing well were "REQUIRED READING" for all merchants, it might be a busier place. I'm just sayin'. Some folks may not even know it's there at all if they're like me and link directly to the Poser Forum only for their daily reading.

I for one didn't realise it was there. Link please? I can't seem to find it.

Agree with TG that the Wishing Well doesn't work.  I've also tried responding
to requests there, or showing people that I already had a freebie fitting
their requirements, and got no replies.  Never.

For something simple and specific like a hairbrush, a direct request in the
main forum (here or Daz) will usually get results.  Provided you ask nice. :) 

(Seems to be an epidemic of non-nice asking lately, esp. in Daz forums.)