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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 08 10:28 pm)
Subject: What is the exact export scale from 3D Studio Max to Poser in OBJ format is it
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What is 3D Studio Max's Scale relative to Wavefront Object units?
Have you tried using Poser native units (Pnu) for your Display Scale?
Where 1.000 Pnu = exactly 1.000 Wavefront OBJect units.
Just a thought ... or two. 
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Maybe, just maybe, no? :lol:
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Max has no relation to other programs scale other that some lame guesses for presets. I.E. the one for Poser in .obj format is .04 which is about 4 times too big. That is why I am asking what the exact scale is for Poser. Hope that makes sense .
In other words Max builds at full real world size. Poser works at around .01 of 1 which is about 100 times smaller than real world size.
I have found that it is not really exactly 100 times smaller but somewhere around 98.6 times or 101.4 times smaller but I want to know if anyone knows the exact scale.
:-)
I don't know but...
May be of some use to know that Wings (I know, not MAX) files need to be reduced to 1.115%, when working at one grid unit to one inch. To me, that sounds awfully close to what you're experiencing with MAX.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - import a poser fig to max at 1000 for refreance, and export your model at .001
rest your pivot piont to 0
What are you suggesting? Are not there different sises of characters in Poser?
I just want to know the scale in decimal form that is all.
Does any one know what it is?
Is it .011
is it .012
is it .009
etc etc
:-)
Quote - I don't know but...
May be of some use to know that Wings (I know, not MAX) files need to be reduced to 1.115%, when working at one grid unit to one inch. To me, that sounds awfully close to what you're experiencing with MAX.
Now we are getting somewhere. I will try a ten foot box and see if it works out right to size.
:-)
One of the problems with Poser is, it doesn't use the exact equivalent of one Wavefront unit. Or rather, some versions do, others don't. Scale is somewhat arbitrary in Poser, so most people make a best guess based on how an imported model looks alongside an established figure such as Dork, Posette, Victoria or Mike.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - > Quote - import a poser fig to max at 1000 for refreance, and export your model at .001
rest your pivot piont to 0
What are you suggesting? Are not there different sises of characters in Poser?
I just want to know the scale in decimal form that is all.
Does any one know what it is?
Is it .011
is it .012
is it .009
etc etc
:-)
I have leave for a bit but I had figured the size out dont have it right now
but if you are modeling some you need a poser figure for size ref example a door and v3
to figure the exact size differance in poser make 2 cube prop move one over 1 poser unit import to max at 1 not 1000 then measure the diff with the tape tool the diff = 1 poser unit I think I did this
with poser pref set to meters
I just ran an experiment and exported a 100 foot cube and exported out of max at a few different scales and came to the conclusion that I will have to settle for .01 as the scale that is close enough and tweak the rest. I increased the decimal precision to 4 digists in Max and it still only allows 3 digits on an export.
I tried two different scales other than .01
one was .011 which was too big
one was .009 which was too small
as Max will only allow 3 digits on export as you can see I have the closest scale possible as I can not even try
one as .0085 etc etc.
So thanks for all the suggestions guys. but I am afraid I have to just wing it.
Regards, Tom
by for now
The first thing to understand is that in the OBJ file format, there is no scale information, on purpose.
So before you can ask "why is Poser stuff so small" you have to actually have a definition for "too small" versus "correct". Since there isn't one, despite however much we'd like to establish it, one is wasting ones time demanding to know why two different programs interpret OBJ units differently. You can just as easily ask, with the same logic, "why is Max stuff so large"?
The OBJ file is unitless, so each application must either pick a unit, or ask you to pick one.
In Poser 4, one OBJ unit = one Poser Native Unit = 8 feet = 96 inches. Many models were made to this scale. Many other programs established that one OBJ unit = 1 foot or 1 meter. All of these are completely arbitrary and conversions between different applications must be dealt with. The fact that Poser's happens to be the most inches per OBJ unit is not any sort of indictment. In all the conversions, at least one application has to be the largest conversion, and at least one application has to be the smallest conversion. It's a simple consequence of there being no standard. Just like in any room, there is a shortest person and a tallest person, and we don't go yelling at them demanding to know "why are you the shortest?" There is a shortest person no matter what you do. There has to be a shortest person. If you were to demand that the shortest person leave because he offends you, then there would be a new shortest person. The only solution is to get rid of everybody - only then is there no shortest person.
And so too there has to be an application with the smallest application scale. So what? Do you plan to get rid of them all until there is no smallest?
Meanwhile at some point Poser changed the OBJ unit and the Poser Native Unit to 103.2 inches, up from 96 inches. This might have been P5 or P6 - I can't remember. I suspect it was P5, when the node-based material ability was introduced. The material system is heavily tied to inches internally. I could show you dozens of examples of why this matters. Perhaps the change to 103.2 was important and intentional. Or perhaps it was a mistake perpretrated by a math-challenged software developer. SM has never revealed this to me.
In any case, if you really want to deal with Poser inches, then you must take into account that one OBJ unit = 103.2 Poser inches.
However, because so many figures were created to the OBJ unit=96 inch scale, the new scale makes them seem absurdly tall. By that argument, the useful conversion is actually 1 OBJ=96 inch, instead of the 1 OBJ = 103.2 inch, and you just have to accept that the units don't read out correctly when looking at them in Poser.
Fortunately, zero is the same in all of these scales. Be glad it is, otherwise we'd have serious nightmares. Like Fahrenheit versus Celcius, where 0 and 1 are both different.
So - if you want the numbers exact, you have to first understand how to specify the number in Max, and then choose 1/103.2 or 1/96.
But if you only have 3 digits, you're screwed.
1/103.2 = 0.00968992248
1/96 = 0.0104166667
You can see why .01 or .009 or .011 doesn't work for anything.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
And that would be too bad because people here ARE friendly and kind, just breath, read it again and you'll see Bagginsbill is just trying to make you see the bigger picture.
Anyway, in Max, have you tried increasing the decimal precision at export? I know the default is 6, try with something higher than that.
re: *"In the end, I will probably not be back to ask for help again. :-("
*I am sorry you feel that way. I would respectfully ask you to reconsider.
*I am sure you did not realize that you were kicking the proverbial "hornet's nest" as soon as you mentioned "scale" here in the forum. It is, has been, and I am sure will continue to be a hot topic and full of opinions which are as varied as the personalities that you may encounter here.
Please believe me, it is not YOU, it is the controversial topic about which you inquired.
We are (ordinarily) a very friendly and helpfuk bunch.
At least, we try to be.
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
P.S. Did someone say "Scale?" :lol:
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
I have purchased several of your most excellent models ... :thumbupboth:
... and I highly recommend them for both quality and detail
My favorite? Fishers but I'm still trying to find my way around the parking lot / loading zones. :biggrin:
One small problem though is with the, um, er, scale, er size ... (jk) :lol:
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Since cfpage found .381 works well for a meter, that's enough clue to know the exact value.
100 centimeters / meter
2.54 centimeteres/inch
103.2 inches per OBJ unit
100/103.2/2.54 = 0.381493011
Try that.
And yes I'm just explaining in detail, not offended, and not trying to offend. You have to understand that I write for posterity and for thousands of readers, so I say more than you may need to be told. I will link people to this thread in the future. You can be sure of that.
If you remain calm and read what I said without anxiety, you'll see that I literally answered your questions. Go read your questions and statements again. Hardly cause for angst.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Dr. Geep has an interesting solution by the way. He says to ignore what Poser says, and use 1 OBJ = 100 inches. This has some merit, and would have a lot of merit if everybody had followed it, including SM. Certainly the 103.2 is a very odd and useless number.
The value of this system is diminished when you're trying to use a model from Max that says that 1 OBJ = 100 centimeters.
Note: I can prove that the actual exact conversion value is 103.200005
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Quote - Dr. Geep has an interesting solution by the way. He says to ignore what Poser says, and use 1 OBJ = 100 inches. This has some merit, and would have a lot of merit if everybody had followed it, including SM. Certainly the 103.2 is a very odd and useless number.
The value of this system is diminished when you're trying to use a model from Max that says that 1 OBJ = 100 centimeters.
Note: I can prove that the actual exact conversion value is 103.200005
No it ain't
it are reely 103.200004 an a tiny bit more den dat butt i don't know how much more.
hope dat helps ha ha
an da docs salushun sucks cuz Ah tryed it an it don't werk ... like me ha ha
If you'll recall, I pointed out in the past that there was some evidence that the number was actually 103.20000458.
Well it turns out that the number really is 103.200005. But this number does not fit in 32 bits. When you take that number and truncate it to a single precision floating point value, then print it. it displays as 103.20000458. The display of the latter number is an artifact of 32-bit Poser numerical display and is not to be taken seriously.
You can see this for yourself.
Go to this Java applet, which is a 32-bit floating point binary/hex/decimal conversion tool.
http://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatApplet/IEEE754.html
Type in 103.200005, and also 103.20000458. There is no difference
Now get rid of the integer part and type in .200005, then type .20000458. The latter needs 3 less bits than the former. By not including the integer 103 in this number, you let the tool devote more bits to the fraction and you are able to see how they differ.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Geep, They're playing hockey in Hell right now... :lol:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
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I was getting up to get a coffee and a bunch of monkeys flew out of my butt. I blame this thread.
Quote -
We are (ordinarily) a very friendly and helpfuk bunch.
Fat fingers, or Freudian slip, Dr. Geep ????
Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.
.001 works great? How? If the 3DS unit is 1 meter = 1 OBJ unit, then .001 can't possibly work great.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
You two seem to be saying the same thing from opposite starting points (export from Poser at 1000, export from Max at 0.001).
Quote - The end user will re-scale the model however they need anyways... never having read this thread nor any legacy arguments about scale... although they'd miss out on the entertainment value.
It's really not that simple, if you don't adjust scale each import/export operation, the geometry will get trashed.
There appears to be a standard "unit" of measure between different 3d software programs,
e.g., Wings3D, UV Mapper, Gmax, Cararra, and Poser.
That "standard unit" is the "Wavefront Object" unit.
Note - Different software programs may define a "unit" as an inch, e.g., Cararra, or
a "native unit", e.g., Poser, etc.
*************************************************
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Dr. Geep:
In Carrara you can set your preference for standard units (in, ft). If you reset the preference to ft, does the cube import as 2 ft x 2 ft?
Also, specifying a different overall scene scale (small, medium, large) affects several items (including the interface).
I import 3ds object files into Carrara fairly frequently, and always have to play around until I find a conversion factor that yields a usable object in Carrara.
Finally, Los Olivos is great (I always to there at least once when in the Fenix area), although I suspect you know that.
Klebnor
Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.
Quote - Dr. Geep:
In Carrara you can set your preference for standard units (in, ft). If you reset the preference to ft, does the cube import as 2 ft x 2 ft?
No, it still imports as 2x2x2" except the display indicates 0.17 ft (which has a rounding error - However, if you change the 3D units back to inches, the size correctly indicates 2.0 x 2.0 x 2.0" again)Also, specifying a different overall scene scale (small, medium, large) affects several items (including the interface).???
I import 3ds object files into Carrara fairly frequently, and always have to play around until I find a conversion factor that yields a usable object in Carrara.
Sometimes that's necessary.Finally, Los Olivos is great (I always to there at least once when in the Fenix area), although I suspect you know that.**
**Yes, it's a neat place but I don't recommend going there after dark! :scared:
Wait a minute, isn't Los Olivos in California? :blink:Klebnor
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Iam not good at math, from what I know, 3dsmax is not a precision modeling program so you will never get a perfect number match, also if you are modeling something for poser let us use a door for example, you import v3 at 1000 for ref. make your door if you export the door at .001 and import to poser you wont see it unless you check in poser ,centre object and place in foor, if you want it to be in the same spot you modeled it in max lets say behind v3, this is what you have to do
1 center the gizmo at xyz "0" not the door
2 scale the door to 0.1
3 export the door at 1.0
in this way you can model things like tables chairs, an earing ect. and the will line up in poser the
way they did in max
does this make sense ?
In my version of max, and all previous versions I have had, wherever the model is in max space, is where it is when imported into poser if all boxes are unchecked. In my experience It matters not where the gizmo is. I uncheck every single box when importing into poser so it is centered, if I have it centered in Max, or in whatever position it was in max.
In my younger less experienced days, I did not pay attention to where the model was in relation to 0,0,0 in max and had to then move it around, or check center and place on floor, but that did not leave dials at 0, which was a requirement of the website I was selling on at the time. Now I just make sure the center of the object is in the center in max, and the tracks or whatever are on the "floor" and import into poser with everything unchecked and I have no issues as to placement of the object.
So, all I do is build the model, import v3 or m3 or whatever into Max at 100 and scale my model to fit, center it, then export at 0.01 and import into poser with all unchecked and the hat or goggles or whatever are in the exact spot in Poser as they were in max when I load v3 or m3 or whatever.
If it's not a precision modeling program, how does one create something as shown in the image above? (.3ds model from 3D Max)
:blink:
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
Quote - In my version of max, and all previous versions I have had, wherever the model is in max space, is where it is when imported into poser if all boxes are unchecked. In my experience It matters not where the gizmo is. I uncheck every single box when importing into poser so it is centered, if I have it centered in Max, or in whatever position it was in max.
In my younger less experienced days, I did not pay attention to where the model was in relation to 0,0,0 in max and had to then move it around, or check center and place on floor, but that did not leave dials at 0, which was a requirement of the website I was selling on at the time. Now I just make sure the center of the object is in the center in max, and the tracks or whatever are on the "floor" and import into poser with everything unchecked and I have no issues as to placement of the object.
So, all I do is build the model, import v3 or m3 or whatever into Max at 100 and scale my model to fit, center it, then export at 0.01 and import into poser with all unchecked and the hat or goggles or whatever are in the exact spot in Poser as they were in max when I load v3 or m3 or whatever.
strange does not work for me I must "0" the gizmo so if you model lets say an earing for left ear
it lines up ? Iam happy with my process but one less step always helps
Quote - I do this all the time. I scale all my models in Max, then export at .001 and they are fine. Just trust someone who does this on an almost daily basis. You are making an assumption about the starting unit.
...
oops sorry. 0.01 wrong decimal my apologies
Heheh. No, I was making an assumption that you could not possibly mean what you said, .001, but rather .01, because .001 is not .01. No worries.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Quote - > Quote - I do this all the time. I scale all my models in Max, then export at .001 and they are fine. Just trust someone who does this on an almost daily basis. You are making an assumption about the starting unit.
...
oops sorry. 0.01 wrong decimal my apologies
Heheh. No, I was making an assumption that you could not possibly mean what you said, .001, but rather .01, because .001 is not .01. No worries.
Huh dey not da same ??? well dat asplains why a hole bunch a stuff i wuz makin dun't werk rite.
now whot am gonna due HUH?
Quote - > Quote - Iam not good at math, from what I know, 3dsmax is not a precision modeling program so you will never get a perfect number match, also if you are modeling something for poser let us use a door for example, you import v3 at 1000 for ref. make your door if you export the door at .001 and import to poser you wont see it unless you check in poser ,centre object and place in foor, if you want it to be in the same spot you modeled it in max lets say behind v3, this is what you have to do
1 center the gizmo at xyz "0" not the door
2 scale the door to 0.1
3 export the door at 1.0
in this way you can model things like tables chairs, an earing ect. and the will line up in poser the
way they did in max
does this make sense ?If it's not a precision modeling program, how does one create something as shown in the image above? (.3ds model from 3D Max)
:blink:
precision modeling program, in the sense as not as acurate as "AutoCAD" or such
that house can be easily done,
Well,ok, maybe so, but can "AutoCAD" make pretty nekkid wimmin ? :lol:
BTW - The model shown in the image above was done almost entirely in Poser ... What dya think of them apples? :lol:
cheers,
dr geep
;=]
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
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What is the exact export scale from 3D Studio Max to Poser in OBJ format is it more or less than .01
My latest product is all exported and I exported out as obj files at the scale of .01?
Now that I am setting the pivot points for the height I am seeing minor discrepancies.
I build at full size in Max and can not for the life of me figure why Poser needs to be so small. Why is it not full size?
I exported an object to Poser that should be 6.041667 feet off the ground but I had to adjust to 6.213 for it to be correct. Very odd.
Any help here would be great.
Regards, Tom