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Subject: I'm most pleased :).........need your thoughts though


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 6:48 AM · edited Fri, 08 November 2024 at 2:47 PM

file_456874.jpg

What do ya think?  They are dynamic, I'm particularly pleased with the edges :)

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


ladiesmen ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 6:55 AM

Looks great

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geep ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:03 AM

You did THAT !!! (and without the aid of a safety net) :lol:

WOW, nicely done. 👍

cheers
dr geep
;=]

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cheers,

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Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:06 AM

Quote - Looks great

Ta LM

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https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:06 AM

Quote - You did THAT !!! (and without the aid of a safety net) :lol:

WOW, nicely done. 👍

cheers
dr geep
;=]

Did someone say something?  My desktop sarcasm detector has just blown up ;p

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


saibabameuk ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:31 AM

 Looks good 
So how ?
What modeling tools did you use ?


Santel ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:34 AM

looks great....very natural!


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:43 AM

Quote -  Looks good 
So how ?
What modeling tools did you use ?

3D Coat and Carrara 7 Pro, the edges are seperate from teh main mesh and added to the Soft Decorated group.

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:43 AM

Quote - looks great....very natural!

Ta :)

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


kobaltkween ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 8:13 AM

i like how they look so far, though i would like a closer look at them. love the modeling.  i've got to ask: why are the edges soft decorated?



hborre ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 8:21 AM

They actually look great.  Much more natural appearance, different from what is out there now.


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 8:30 AM

Quote - i like how they look so far, though i would like a closer look at them. love the modeling.  i've got to ask: why are the edges soft decorated?

Cos if they weren't then the shape would smooth out with the simulation.

John.

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Adom ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 8:51 AM

Could you animate them a little (100 - 200 fr?) and post the result ?


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:07 AM

Quote - Could you animate them a little (100 - 200 fr?) and post the result ?

Unfortunately I'm hopeless at that kinda thing

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


saibabameuk ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:25 AM

 Will they be available for poser8 .


kobaltkween ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:26 AM · edited Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:26 AM

Quote -
Cos if they weren't then the shape would smooth out with the simulation.

John.

interesting.  so the edges don't have true thickness, then? i guess i can understand why you might do that.



Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:28 AM

Quote -  Will they be available for poser8 .

For sure, dynamic works in 5 and above.

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:30 AM

Quote - > Quote -

Cos if they weren't then the shape would smooth out with the simulation.

John.

interesting.  so the edges don't have true thickness, then? i guess i can understand why you might do that.

Kinda :) the edges are just seperated from the main bit, then I add thickness to them.  Using the Soft group then maintains their position, and more or less keeps the shape.  The hard decorated group wouldnt work I don't think.

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:37 AM

Quote - They actually look great.  Much more natural appearance, different from what is out there now.

cheets hb, now the edges seem to work I think dynamic has almost no drawbacks :)

Sorry for the late reply, not sure why, but I didnt get a mail for your post.

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


kobaltkween ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:39 AM

no, i'd bet it wouldn't. that said, i've never had to use soft decorated groups for my hems to keep them from collapsing. but i'm not satisfied with how i make them (yet) either, so i'm probably missing something. 



TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:46 AM

 I LOVE the edges! they really look great!

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Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:52 AM

Quote - no, i'd bet it wouldn't. that said, i've never had to use soft decorated groups for my hems to keep them from collapsing. but i'm not satisfied with how i make them (yet) either, so i'm probably missing something. 

Not sure how you are doing it KK, but I have always found that modelling the hems into the main cloth part either smoothes them out completely, or enough to makte them unsatisfying.

This method I think solves that issue, though it will raise one or two more I am sure :)

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


kobaltkween ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:57 AM

weird.  i don't have them smooth out at all.  my problem with my hems is purely me.  i haven't found a good way to make their basic shape. 



pjz99 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 9:58 AM

They look great!  One thing to add might be a seam down the front, if I were you I'd do that with a displacement or bump map.  About the hem edges, you don't have to do that as a soft decorated group, but you do seem to have it working well anyhow :)  What I do that also works is assign the hem vertices to a group with different fold resistance etc.  If you want to look at the settings I used you're welcome to them:
http://sites.google.com/site/fleshforge/Home/free-stuff-1/irina-sp3-dynamic-sheath-dress
http://sites.google.com/site/fleshforge/Home/free-stuff-1/gillian-dynamic-dress-v4

The settings and groups should be saved into the PP2 file and pop up when you set up a coth simulation for that prop.

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Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 10:18 AM

Quote - They look great!  One thing to add might be a seam down the front, if I were you I'd do that with a displacement or bump map.  About the hem edges, you don't have to do that as a soft decorated group, but you do seem to have it working well anyhow :)  What I do that also works is assign the hem vertices to a group with different fold resistance etc.  If you want to look at the settings I used you're welcome to them:
http://sites.google.com/site/fleshforge/Home/free-stuff-1/irina-sp3-dynamic-sheath-dress
http://sites.google.com/site/fleshforge/Home/free-stuff-1/gillian-dynamic-dress-v4

The settings and groups should be saved into the PP2 file and pop up when you set up a coth simulation for that prop.

Lol once again I've over engieered the solution ;) thanks pzj, Ill look at the dynamic groups thing

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 10:20 AM

Quote - weird.  i don't have them smooth out at all.  my problem with my hems is purely me.  i haven't found a good way to make their basic shape. 

Model them as just part of the flat mesh, select the ring ot polys around the edge, now depending on your modeller, extrude/bevel/fillet those polys, then softent the edges so they are not razor sharp.

Hope that makes sense.

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 2:48 PM

Quote -  I LOVE the edges! they really look great!

Ta TG :) hows the PC going?

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


pjz99 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 2:57 PM

Eh if it works, that's fine :)  How long does the sim take to run per frame, on average?  If the time to calculate isn't excessive then it doesn't really matter, the results look great!

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Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 3:16 PM

Quote - Eh if it works, that's fine :)  How long does the sim take to run per frame, on average?  If the time to calculate isn't excessive then it doesn't really matter, the results look great!

Not timed it exactly, but it's no slower than my usual simulations :)

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


KimberlyC ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 4:16 PM

looks great. great work on this! :)



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pjz99 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 4:56 PM

Quote - Not timed it exactly, but it's no slower than my usual simulations :)John

Then I think your method is just fune ^^ Nice job.

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Fugazi1968 ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 5:08 PM

Quote - looks great. great work on this! :)

Ta muchly :)

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D


kobaltkween ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 7:57 PM

Quote - [
Model them as just part of the flat mesh, select the ring ot polys around the edge, now depending on your modeller, extrude/bevel/fillet those polys, then softent the edges so they are not razor sharp.

Hope that makes sense.

John

oh it makes total sense.  and it's how i make them.  the issue is that first step: model them as just part of the flat mesh.  if i do that when i've made the clothing already, there's mostly no simple way to get something that's actually even.  if i do that before i've made the clothes and when i'm in my flat stage, it's easy to make even, but it becomes uneven in the process of making it.  i've tried it both ways, and neither has been very satisfying yet as a method.  yeah, i know, it works fine for literally everyone else.  i think this is one of those things that comes easy to everyone, but i just have to find a way that works with my little weird brain.

i'll figure something out eventually.  i might just need to get a little creative with my thinking and my process.

and your method seems to work really well.   i wasn't trying to say you should do anything different.  i just figured you were doing it for a reason, and i wanted to understand that reason better before running into problems.  for instance, i started off making hems soft decorated but didn't separate them like you did and ran into trouble.  i read the manual and it explained (as i think you mentioned recently) that soft and hard decorated groups shouldn't share polygons with the cloth mesh.  that was a few months ago.  if i had asked you about it then, i would have saved myself a lot of trouble.



RedPhantom ( ) posted Sun, 01 August 2010 at 8:11 PM
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 They look quite comfortable. I'd like to order an extra large. Will it be available by fall?


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lululee ( ) posted Tue, 03 August 2010 at 6:00 PM

Splendid quality, my friend.
i am impressed.
cheerio
lululee


estherau ( ) posted Tue, 03 August 2010 at 6:57 PM

 that looks superb.  edges have been a problem in poser dynamic clothes, and even displacement mapping doesn't seem to looks as good as your edges.  it's looking really really good.
Keep up the good work.
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estherau ( ) posted Tue, 03 August 2010 at 7:45 PM

 with a decent texture map, tops and trousers made using your method would look equally good as the daz studio dynamic clothes, with the advantage that it is mac compatible and that users can make clothes too if they want.  I hope many more people adopt your method. I've noticed a few dynamic clothes appearing in the MP lately but seams and edges on the promos don't seem all that good.
Love esther

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kobaltkween ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2010 at 1:14 AM

you know, i never had a problem using edges in dynamic clothes.  not my own, and not those of others.  Lady Littlefox's stuff is great dynamic, and one of my many unfinished works used a dynamic version of the Masquerade's Eve panties.  came out just fine, with no trouble.  i have trouble making nice edges in general, but once they're made, i've never had a problem running a sim nor keeping them.



estherau ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2010 at 10:46 AM

 most people do have edge problems because dynamic clothes look paper thin on most clothes that I've seen, as if they've been made with material that has been cut with scissors and not hemmed.
Love esther

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kobaltkween ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2010 at 11:38 AM

they have been made without hems.  that's kind of my point. dynamic clothes don't have edge problems.  that's like saying conforming clothes used to have a detail problem before people started making higher quality clothing.  the problem isn't the dynamics.  the problem is that most (but definitely not all) dynamic clothes are made in a very quick and easy manner.  some creators spend time making details, but most don't.  Fugazi1968 is an exception, pjz99 is an exception, svdl is an exception, and i for that matter am an exception.  but you can look at my Greeting the Dawn and how Lady Littlefox and Sarsa's V4 Fairy Gown performs and see that dynamic simulations have no problem with clothing details.  if i had actually made the shawl in my most recent post opaque rather than partially transparent. you'd be able to see the thickness on that.  the band around the figure's waist also has a thickness. 

i've had problems converting some clothes to dynamic.  but the problems have been fairly inexplicable and completely unassociated with how detailed meshes are handled.



pjz99 ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2010 at 5:49 PM

Quote - oh it makes total sense.  and it's how i make them.  the issue is that first step: model them as just part of the flat mesh.  if i do that when i've made the clothing already, there's mostly no simple way to get something that's actually even.  if i do that before i've made the clothes and when i'm in my flat stage, it's easy to make even, but it becomes uneven in the process of making it. 

Here's a good way:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2793152

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kobaltkween ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2010 at 6:01 PM

very cool!  i don't know if i can do that with Blender (my tool of choice and what presently fits my budget), but i'll definitely try to find a similar function to Extrude Inner.



pjz99 ( ) posted Thu, 05 August 2010 at 12:15 AM

I'm sure Blender can do this, although the terms are different.  This is an application of edge extrusion.  Blender is a very very powerful modeler, you don't need to look any further.  If I was starting from scratch I'd use it.

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kobaltkween ( ) posted Thu, 05 August 2010 at 6:05 AM

weirdly, looking it up, inset is actually one of the things people (specifically, box modeling people) would like it to do but it doesn't yet.  some people have written scripts that kind of do it (lots of limitations), and there's requests to add it to the modeling features.  some people are asking for it to be added to something called Bmesh.  i'm not familiar with it, but it seems to be part of one of those alternate distributions.  so i'm thinking it might be added in the near future, especially if people keep talking about it.

but it looks like there's no simple solution within Blender yet. people have mentioned Wings3d, which does.  i'm definitely not a Wings3D user (one of the many tools i tried and gave up), but i can probably figure out how to do edges there.  thanks!



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