I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm not sure what to search for. Can someone help?

So I have V4 with a conforming hair figure that has braids. I'm using PP2010. When I pose v4 the braids intersect the figure even though the hair moves correctly with the head.  I tried turning on collisons for the hair and v4 and made a key frame for the new pose but that doesn't help. Are collisions only for animation? What do collisons actually do and how do you use them?

There are magnets for the braids so I can manually move the braids out from inside the v4 figure, but it seems to me there should be a simple way by now for Poser to understand collisions and intersections.

 I guess this happens with arms and legs too. Is there no simple way to fix this? it's troublesome and I guess I just expect poser figures to have volume or something so one wouldn't have to jump through hoops to fix this and similar issues.

Am I missing something really obvious? Any suggestions on how to address this issue or where to go for help? 

I'm sorry if I sound too strident, I'm slightly frustrated. Otherwise I love Poser.

Thanks Mike

are the braids morphed or jointed so that you can articulate them? If not you may have to create a morph.

I'm pretty sure they have morphs...I'll check. How does that affect the issue?

 Acutally the braids have individual parameters and the whole hair has morph fits for different characters.  Each braid has it's own parameter, that's why the magnets are there, so that you can move a group of braids on one side. I tried checking include morphs when conforming, but that didn't seem to help.

Mike

I forgot to mention that there are 4 individual braids on each side, not just one big braid on each side and some behind the head as well.

Mike

Unless something has changed dramatically, posing hair has always been a matter of trial and error.

Collisions, in this case, will only detect the presence of mesh in contact with each other and will not respond realistically as you would expect to see using animation in the cloth room.  The realism will only occur with dynamic hair, not transmapped hair.  To simulate strand behavior, you will need to use whatever morphing capability that comes with the hair figure and pose the braids in whatever position you desire.

... or use a magnet.

Total Hair CTRL

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=69913

This seems to add handles to hair so that it can be posed more easily. It gets good reviews.

LMK

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I like the hair control idea. The current hair has magnets but they're tricky to use.

My problems seems to be a generic Poser problem. There is another recent discussion about dynamic clothes that seems to reflect a similar problem;ie poser meshes are not aware of each other. Even dynamic clothes have problems with the poser figure mesh. Arms and legs also are not "aware" of each other.

In my naive mind, I would like the poser meshes/figures to be solid objects that are aware of each other and would therfore know when another object "bumps" into them. I guess there are a ton of 3d calculations to make this come true.  Maybe in a future version? I think zbrush has solid 3d objects and when you move a zsphere it will not penetrate another zsphere.

So I pose the figure and then fix the hair...That'sthe way to solve the intersecting problem. Every time the pose changes, the hair may have to be changed too. I was hoping for an easier, generic solution. No big deal, one more thing to play with.

Mike

The major problem with the collision feature in the Pose room is that it becomes very memory intensive.  Poser becomes very sluggish after a time.

Quote - In my naive mind, I would like the poser meshes/figures to be solid objects that are aware of each other and would therfore know when another object "bumps" into them. I guess there are a ton of 3d calculations to make this come true.  Maybe in a future version? I think zbrush has solid 3d objects and when you move a zsphere it will not penetrate another zsphere.

So I pose the figure and then fix the hair...That'sthe way to solve the intersecting problem. Every time the pose changes, the hair may have to be changed too. I was hoping for an easier, generic solution. No big deal, one more thing to play with.

Indeed this would blow your circuits. Spheres are easy, of course, in a vectorized world. Poser does use grid definitions and can have collision possibilites, and with PoserPhysics you can do even more. But that is still collisions between (bounding boxes of) objects, and not on mesh level.

You may try to clothify the lower part of the hair and use the cloth room. Strand hair can do collisions, but it is very slow due to the many polygons. You may consider a 'proxy', that is a very rough mesh conforming figure that you use as collision object for the hair. Make it invisible before render.

B.

i am now just rendering bald women. Takes all that hair tweaking out of the equation.

I have THC ... its magnets, but a little better behaving than normal magnets. I still find that it doesn;t always bend or move things where you need them to.

do u draw the hair in afterwards Daveso?

Quote - do u draw the hair in afterwards Daveso?

Actually I do quite often . Remove sticking through areas, add where needed. my painting skills are not good though, so it doesn;t always look quite right...its sometimes difficult to get the correct shading on the skin, etc.

editied to add: I sometimes render another pass without the hair and layer that in.

ah so you do render hair then! (if you render a layer without then you render a layer with too)

hehe I knew it.

Love esther

Quote - ah so you do render hair then! (if you render a layer without then you render a layer with too)

hehe I knew it.

Love esther

Well, when I was rendering hair :)
I am doing more bald now for sure. Have been using IDL lighting but the hair extends render time to forever. Last one I did took 20+ hours and was only 2/3 complete so I stopped it. My system is very old and can't handle the newfangles methods :(

But even transmapped hair extends your render time?  isn't that no different to clothes or anything else?

yes, everything extends it. I've been doing a lot of nudes lately...see at RDNA under the same name.

Actually, if you look at this image, the hair had a ton of going through the model problems, and it came out looking not too bad...although the lighting at the hair is a bit darker..covers up the problems :)
NUDITY WARNING -- if you go to large image and look at the neck, you will see it is jagged. that is from removing hair that was sticking though...bad work on my part..but the focus goes to the breasts, so you miss that :)
http://www.runtimedna.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastupby&cat=0&pos=2&uid=13668

And there you have a tip to the OP...lighting is your friend, especialy in postwork where you can darken stuff to hide flaws.

And there you have a tip to the OP...breasts are your friends,  

hehe.  nice render.  fringe would probably fall towards the floor a bit.

Hair is your enemy

I dont know much about doing the cloth syms/ dynamics in poser,  and what not, but had you thought about the possibility that the hair wont collide because of the way the normals are facing?

Can ya stick a bone in a braid to make it easier to move? scratch scratch