I'm doing shorts. like 15 minutes or so.

But i don't know how to include all the elements of a story without running out of time.

LIke first introducing characters, etc.. then there's a problem.. then the climax and the the solution to the problem.

Anyone have any tips or can direct me to a site?

I work very hierarchical, and make synopsis for the whole story, then for the 'chapters', then for the sections and so on. Somewhere down the road I shift to images, aka storyboard. 

Then I start timing (spreadsheets are handy), bottom up, then top down, and so on till it fits. Since I use existing music, that's a main timing driver too.

Poser in lowres with 1 shot per sec is a great storyboarder, and by using a slide-show at 1 fps, I get quite a good pre-viz before anything hi-quality kicks in.

15 mins is quite long though. 

Tip: 3D World recently issued a list of 100-best shorts. I've put it on my website as well, linking to the shorts themselves. Could be great examples, maybe.

Have fun.

When I took Film class a good rule of thumb is to use the 3-act idea.

Act 1:  Intro characters, show a bit of normal life or something mundane to show world structure.

Act 2:  Create the problem or conflict, this shows whatever they must deal with be it a relationship fall, a disaster an invasion.  Show the central thesis of conflict.

Act 3:  resolution, either solving whatever it is that must be solved or a resolution bad or good to the conflict of act 2.

Thats a very short hand way to say it, but in a nutshell that's how we did it in Our class.

on a  similar note, try story boards those help with placement, camera angles and may show you what you need that you may not know until you have to fill that camera viewfinder.

-- P.S.  Acts dont have to be of a specified length, some shorts have acts of differing sizes or runtimes all together but layign it our a head of time will help with your pacing, to keep it running smooth with little dead time.

I tend to do a timeline with a few pics to show the scene at key points. The timeline shows how many seconds for each shot, with a text description. If any shots are over about two minutes I have a close look at whats going on.

So

30 sec title and copyright threat

3 min Intro, scene and characters

3 min Oh Noes ! the problem

5 min Good greif ! the solution

3 min Happy ending - and

30 secs end credits

total 15 mins

A short film has the advantage that it has to move along and not dwell on anything.

If you are doing a full movie you can have rwo characters gaze into each others eyes and kiss for 5 minutes , at which point all the guys are out getting popcorn :)

15 minutes? you sure you want to do that much?

thats 21,600 frames. (24fps * 60 (1 minute) * 15)... believe me, thats a lot of work for one person.

Magnus. don't worry. i do my films in Preview mode. not full renders with shadows.

Quote - 15 minutes? you sure you want to do that much?

thats 21,600 frames. (24fps * 60 (1 minute) * 15)... believe me, thats a lot of work for one person.

I agree with Magnus.  You could easily spend a whole year working on one short, especially if you are after high quality.  You might consider getting a digital video camera and doing live action instead.

joster, I don't think they're referring to render time, but rather the amount of work needed before you hit render for that many frames. 

Quote - joster, I don't think they're referring to render time, but rather the amount of work needed before you hit render for that many frames. 

And you have to factor all the time we know you will inevitably spend online posting  threads seeking personal  life management advice
... this  project could take Decades

Cheers

wof, no.

Actually i'm making a full short film today and finishing today.

Just don't know if it's any good

Not that there aren't super talented people who might be able to do this, I find myself doubting the results with only one day's worth of work. Any way we'll be able to see the results?

Attached Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkhCdFnSEqE

Actually I am doing the same thing he is doing now. It is difficult but its because I am just beginning to see the most effective workflow to it and once that is established, I believe it is going to be much faster.

Advice to Joster:

1.)Use Bvh instead of hand keyframing.

2.)Download Freemind to organize your story

3.)Do not render in High Quality.

4.)Use DAZ Studio for much higher and faster rendering using Open GL 8 pass.

5.)Prepare and work only on one scene, finish it to production quality before going to the next scene to prevent yourself from being overwhelmed and procastinate.

Owl? I'm not stopping him at all. I was wondering if he knew how much work 15 minutes is. but hey. lets not raise valid points.... it may upset someone.

Thanks the owl. Yeah i've been trying different ways to speed up my process.

And i'm watching CGI shorts in youtube and now i feel much better about it.

Before i was tryiing to do shots that lasted long.. Now i'm noticing it's better to do shots that last just a few seconds.

Also, I was reading book the FIVE c's of cinematography and they use this technique where they stop the camera then move to another angle and continue the action( Actor has to start from where he left off) so   that is great cause you don't have to make a perfect fluid long animation, WHICH is what i was doing before.

You can make smlaller parts and concentrate on making them good.

Advice to Joster:

1.)Use Bvh instead of hand keyframing.

Welll  thanks. and yeah i use  BVh too but i modify them too for facial expressions etc.

And also i do keyframing.

2.)Download Freemind to organize your story

Don't know what that is. and i'm on mac. probably it's not for mac.
3.)Do not render in High Quality.

I don't. As i've told you all before, i do OPENG GL preview renders and yes i use DAZ Studio with OPENGL at highest. its awesome.

5.)Prepare and work only on one scene, finish it to production quality before going to the next scene to prevent yourself from being overwhelmed and procastinate.  

Yeah that's great advice.

Finally again, I'm watching shorts made by Poser and DAZ users, they're great inspiration and also i'm reading 3D animation and cinematography books. I have two. ONe for animation, it's an old 1997 book but it stil gives you all you need.

And the other is a book i bought  called DIgital Cinematography. It has all about story telling, camera shooting , shots, etc.

You can do the same effect using the Constant Section. I used it on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q82UzpvAUGI

Quote - Not that there aren't super talented people who might be able to do this, I find myself doubting the results with only one day's worth of work. Any way we'll be able to see the results?

Have we ever seen the results of the advice people kindly offer in these threads.???

I am so reminded of the person "Tbop" and his endless "animation /movie projects" after getting many persepctives,links to resources and encouragement  he NEVER showed anything to indicate he took all of the free advice seriously

as if just getting the people to discuss his aspirations was the goal all along.

sorry to be so blunt .

unsubscribed<<<

P.s

Youtube and vimeo are free hosts

Quote - Jesus Christ guys let the man do his thing. Why discourage people? Who knows, maybe he is the next innovator we need to raise the standards in poser art.

 

Actually I am doing the same thing he is doing now. It is difficult but its because I am just beginning to see the most effective workflow to it and once that is established, I believe it is going to be much faster.

 

Advice to Joster:

1.)Use Bvh instead of hand keyframing.

2.)Download Freemind to organize your story

3.)Do not render in High Quality.

4.)Use DAZ Studio for much higher and faster rendering using Open GL 8 pass.

5.)Prepare and work only on one scene, finish it to production quality before going to the next scene to prevent yourself from being overwhelmed and procastinate.

Best advice yet.

p

Tbop, yeah I remember him, the guy who became a busboy right? What he decided to do is his own decision. All we can do is to give help but not to expect from others hence we just hurt ourselves needlessly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih8Dx-iLuf4

I meant no discouragement. Being forewarned of the scope of a project can prevent being overwhelmed. Nor do I think asking to see what his results are is unreasonable.

outta here, too...

joster and/or tebop have posted 4 or 5 links to vids at u-tube, if anybody wants to search here, and said users allow search.  all in preview mode IIRC. if using bvh, some of which can be ~1000 frames, speeds things up alot. if he's still using the same old mac, then rendering with ray-tracing and IDL may be out of the question.

Quote - Tbop, yeah I remember him, the guy who became a busboy right? What he decided to do is his own decision. All we can do is to give help but not to expect from others hence we just hurt ourselves needlessly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih8Dx-iLuf4

Good Stuff TheOwl
8 )

“A disappointment is an unfulfilled expectation”

Tom

Thanks guys. I'm starting to understand it all. Short films is great. Do many of you do it too?

Quote - Have we ever seen the results of the advice people kindly offer in these threads.???
I am so reminded of the person "Tbop" and his endless "animation /movie projects" after getting many persepctives,links to resources and encouragement  he NEVER showed anything to indicate he took all of the free advice seriously

Not that I've made many animations, and definitely no "shorts," But I for one have taken every bit of advice I've received here in the forums. I've been learning everything else before I jump into that pool. I started less than a year ago, and I hope I prove that you can learn a lot from the forums, and I think I've shown progress if you look at my work / freebies. I initially started learning Poser with the intention of making an animated comic book, but have put that on the back burner after jumping in and loving everything else about 3D, especially modeling.

So ultimately learning all that I am now will help me out when I decide to make my comic, but I still have much more to learn.

Sorry for jumping in with nothing really constructive, I am trying to offer more words of encouragement I guess.

And maybe one day, i'll be asking you for tips on animation :o)