Quote - It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

2006 - Cut my teeth on 3D with DS.

2010 - Switched to Poser 8 last June, after tiring of waiting for third-party developers to update their plugins for DS 3.  I also wanted learn how to work with dynamic clothing, and the OptiTex plugin for DS is still proprietary two years after DAZ promised an update for user-created content.  I sidegraded to Poser Pro 2010 a week later to get access to a couple more features I wanted.

2011 - Switched back to DS in March, after seeing what the Reality plugin could do.

I insalled DS 4 Friday night, and toyed around with it for a few hours.  Even after customizing the style and layout to maximize my work space, the large parameter dials and menu tabs still take up more space than necessary when opened, and make me feel like I'm in Pre-School.  DAZ has already confirmed that they're abandoning the DS 3 UI in favor of this "new and improved" version.  As a result, in response to feedback, the same guy who designed it is now designing a tweaked version of the DS3 UI for DS 4, on his own time, via DAZ's in-house Broker program.  I don't appreciate the idea that I'm going to have to pay for his effort just to regain access to a UI that I've been accustomed to for the last 5 years.

That, combined with the overall experience I've had watching DS 4's development cycle, have given me cause to switch back to Poser.  Now I'm learning how to use Pose2Lux so I can break my dependence on DS for a Lux bridge.

Going forward, I won't be supporting DAZ Studio anymore, but will continue buying content from DAZ 3D as long as it remains compatible with Poser.

On that note, GOD it feels GREAT to be using Poser's Content Library again!  I spent all day Saturday running lighting tests with the Firefly engine and LOVE having only one set of content files to work with without having to configure multiple directory paths for two different programs.

Quote - It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

perhaps you ought to actually read all posts about DS4 before you jump to conclusions.

i, for one, was a diehard DS user, this no longer applies. i am saving for PP20--.

i already have P7 and P8 for testing purposes, which will be seeing MUCH more use for personal work from now on.

DS4 is a crappy Kiddies toy from Fisher Price now.

As I understand it, its just DSF import that DAZ has offered to third parties (including Poser)?

The DSF file import is what DAZ are using to get V5 into Carrara. They report having a working version in-house.

How much of the 'mix and match' Genesis capabilities are left after being squirted through a DSF file? I don't know, we'll find out with Carrara!

Carrara's Genesis capabilities could well be an indication of what Poser could get with DSF import.

Quote - You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Not really the point I was making about Alyson, Ryan and Miki. And to be honest Alyson and Ryan are pretty much tied to Poser 8. Something i just read recently by Steve Cooper on the Poser blog gives me a little insight as to how they perceive the figures for Poser vs. the Mil 4 figures anyway.

But yeah, DAZ says that they've been in talks with SM. I'm assuming thats been a two way street.

lets stop acting like new rigging system is bad. its better. its more realistic. end of story.

poser needs it. so lets hope for the best.

Quote - lets stop acting like new rigging system is bad. its better. its more realistic. end of story.

 

poser needs it. so lets hope for the best.

I really don't think that anyone is of the opinion that a new rigging system is bad or that Poser wouldn't be improved with new rigging. The discussions that have been going on are largely speculation about the future relationship between DAZ and Poser, and about the business implications of DAZ's new directions. People who have invested in a software and content for it are entitled to be concerned about its future - nought wrong in that.

Though it does strike me that most complaints against DS4 itself, from both sides, have little to do with the rigging.

Quote - Something occurred to me and I'll admit that I'm not really up on DS and all it's plugins and products, but...

As it stands now, as far as products go, there is some content at Daz and other brokerages that require multiple other products just to be able to use them. Will there theoretically be products now that will require not only other products to be able to use it, but also other plugins as well? With the multple versions I'm not sure how that would work. It's the reason I hate the plugin system for this type of software ;). This could be a mess that I just don't want to have to keep after personally. With Poser, I only need Poser...hehe. If something works in Poser 8, it also works in 2010 and vice versa.

I could be way off base, but the potential exists, doesn't it?

Laurie

They've already done so - see the Elite Human Surface Shader.  Many of the DS characters require HSS.  So many, in fact, that Daz had to release it free to get people to buy the characters.

They've already tried that little ploy and it was a miserable failure.

Quote - > Quote - Something occurred to me and I'll admit that I'm not really up on DS and all it's plugins and products, but...

As it stands now, as far as products go, there is some content at Daz and other brokerages that require multiple other products just to be able to use them. Will there theoretically be products now that will require not only other products to be able to use it, but also other plugins as well? With the multple versions I'm not sure how that would work. It's the reason I hate the plugin system for this type of software ;). This could be a mess that I just don't want to have to keep after personally. With Poser, I only need Poser...hehe. If something works in Poser 8, it also works in 2010 and vice versa.

I could be way off base, but the potential exists, doesn't it?

Laurie

They've already done so - see the Elite Human Surface Shader.  Many of the DS characters require HSS.  So many, in fact, that Daz had to release it free to get people to buy the characters.

They've already tried that little ploy and it was a miserable failure.

 

Eek. Well, there's only one word for that. "Clusterf**k....lol.

Laurie

whait a second.

they are forcing you to use a shader with DAZ?

No

Quote - whait a second.

 

they are forcing you to use a shader with DAZ?

What I said was they are selling products using HSS.  If you purchase those products you MUST have HSS or they will not work.

Is that more plain now?

Quote - > Quote - You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Not really the point I was making about Alyson, Ryan and Miki. And to be honest Alyson and Ryan are pretty much tied to Poser 8. Something i just read recently by Steve Cooper on the Poser blog gives me a little insight as to how they perceive the figures for Poser vs. the Mil 4 figures anyway.

But yeah, DAZ says that they've been in talks with SM. I'm assuming thats been a two way street.

What'd he say?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Not really the point I was making about Alyson, Ryan and Miki. And to be honest Alyson and Ryan are pretty much tied to Poser 8. Something i just read recently by Steve Cooper on the Poser blog gives me a little insight as to how they perceive the figures for Poser vs. the Mil 4 figures anyway.

But yeah, DAZ says that they've been in talks with SM. I'm assuming thats been a two way street.

 

What'd he say?

He said: "When sculpting the figures we used Freedom of Teach's excellent human models as a reference for proportion, bone protuberances, and musculature. Are they perfect? Considering that we created full collection in an incredibly tight time-frame, no. But they really work well, are very mutable and very closely follow real-world proportions. There are without a doubt some limitations in how the figures can pose, as is with most 3D figures. We are confident we've achieved a high point with the new Poser 8 figures."

I was personally turned away when I discovered the Genesis figures couldn't take any of my Morphs for V4 previous.  I am NOT going to give them more money for the same frikking functionality I had before, especially when it costs so much frikking money!

Sorry, I just realized how much more irking it is that everything costs so much, and how they seem so money grubbing.  Sure, I'd like 80 dollars to piss away on Reality, or 50 on a cloth room which uses its own, secular clothing.  And that Genesis will just be their answer to Millenium... I am glad to have my Posette still.

Poser all the way, here, unless they are willing to let me use my morphs on Genesis, and give us a non-crippled piece of software that won't cost so much to upgrade to the functionality Poser has, far past the price of Poser itself.

I would like to think that DAZ would offer pre-release V5 figures to SM so they could have them to work on incorporating them into Poser.  Maybe they even charge them!

Poser is good for TOols and setting up figures/clothes.

Why doesn't Poser copy DAZ in terms of animating tools...OR i mean copy Gofigure and aniblocks, etc.

Poser works on keyframing but that's too tedious for repetitive animation. You have to do everything by hand as if you were working like a traditional 2D animator. Computers are supposed to make things easeir.

So, if you want Poser to get better, you should give it a GOFigure Animate2 type of system AND also keep the keyframing capabilities that Poser has.

 About to give D4 a try-  THEN I can DUMP on Daz with a clear conscience. :-)

As someone who barely worked with D3 I hope to view the new interface without predjudice.

 As of now methinks Daz has better human figures-and PoserPro2010 is a better program for my needs-

I doubt I'll ever switch to DS because I've been with Poser too long. If I had started off with DS like others have, it might be different. Even with all of Poser's bugs, I choose it over DS. I also use Vue with Poser.

If DS had a plugin to export to Poser I might think about using it more, or a plugin to export from Carrara directly to Poser without having to go through DS. Too much is lost with OBJ exports.

I'm not interested in Gen5 figures when Gen4 figures work just fine for me. I'm also tired of wasting more money on new clothing for models especially when there is virtually no support for male figures. If it weren't for Renderosity and PoserAddicts, I'd give up entirely on purchasing any clothing for models.

Another thing I don't like is that the PA's are creating content for DS only and alienating Poser users. Many times I see something at the DAZ store that I want, but it's only for DS. I expect one day there will be no Poser content at all and we'll either have to start using DS or move on to other sites.

Quote - I doubt I'll ever switch to DS because I've been with Poser too long. If I had started off with DS like others have, it might be different. Even with all of Poser's bugs, I choose it over DS. I also use Vue with Poser.

If DS had a plugin to export to Poser I might think

I don't like DAZ so much now (see above), but there is this here:

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=8040

It's a freebie plugin.  I will admit I use DAZ for posing figures most of the time (Power Poser is far superior to anying in Poser proper), so I make oft use of this.

In all fairness, most of the content that Daz sells is also Poser compatible. That of course may change down the road, but for now, most things you can buy at the store you can use in Poser.

Laurie

Quote - I was personally turned away when I discovered the Genesis figures couldn't take any of my Morphs for V4 previous.  I am NOT going to give them more money for the same frikking functionality I had before, especially when it costs so much frikking money!

v4 doesn't take V3 morphs, v3 doesn't take V2 morphs.......you were thinking it would be different this time?

There's a lot more functionality in the Genesis figures than there ever was in V4.

Coldrake

Quote - > Quote - I was personally turned away when I discovered the Genesis figures couldn't take any of my Morphs for V4 previous.  I am NOT going to give them more money for the same frikking functionality I had before, especially when it costs so much frikking money!

v4 doesn't take V3 morphs, v3 doesn't take V2 morphs.......you were thinking it would be different this time?

There's a lot more functionality in the Genesis figures than there ever was in V4.

 

 

Coldrake

I guess I shouldn't've.  It's just irking, because it'll take her textures just fine, and because this was such a striking similarity to the one it was replacing, I guess I was hoping a little too much for a payer bonus.

Quote - but it's only for DS. I expect one day there will be no Poser content at all and we'll either have to start using DS or move on to other sites.

 ....or learn to model and Make your own...

Thats what I have Done.

Cheers

Quote - Poser is good for TOols and setting up figures/clothes.

Why doesn't Poser copy DAZ in terms of animating tools...OR i mean copy Gofigure and aniblocks, etc.

Poser works on keyframing but that's too tedious for repetitive animation. You have to do everything by hand as if you were working like a traditional 2D animator. Computers are supposed to make things easeir.

So, if you want Poser to get better, you should give it a GOFigure Animate2 type of system AND also keep the keyframing capabilities that Poser has.

 

Aren't aniblocks nothing else but animated poses?
In Poser you have besides keyframing with all it's options, animation layers and animation sets.
Those give you plenty of options for creating repetitive animation.  

"Aren't aniblocks nothing else but animated poses?"

Yes but you can Mix  them together seamlessly in a nonlinear fashion
you can even speed up/slow down trim or reverse them just like editing
Video Clips and then export the completed motion to poser Via the DAZ poser format exporter.

SEE CLIP

aniMate plus is the ONLY reason I bother to keep Daz Studio Installed at all
it is useless to me otherwise as I do all  of my rendering in Cinema4D R11 Studio with VRay or Maxwell
Via the ,
interposer plugin

Cheers

I (personally) find Ryan and Alyson to look like aliens- I just can't seem to make myself create a Nekkid Alyson in a Temple with a Dragon-no matter what I do. Is there any better reason to own Poser? :-)

I thought P6 Jessica was a step in the right direction- I at least contemplated putting her in a Temple!

Quote - > Quote - Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

In all fairness, I can't see anyone ditching DS for Ryan and Alyson or any of the Poser figures either ;). Opinions may differ....lol. I only ditch Vicky for other non-SM figures...lol.

Laurie

I tried Daz Studio 2 or 3 years a go , if memory serves, and I wasn't impressed. Only thing you could do, was to play with pre-installed daz content. You couldn't import anything. A 3d program that doesn't let you use your own meshes? Let alone rig them? That's just silly - I  thought it was the dumbest thing ever invented. It was a program designed  to merely showcase Daz content.  I honestly thought it would never be succesful. It seems that I was wrong.

Recently, I ended up buying Bryce Pro, because it was cheap and because I wanted a program that could be used to  make beautiful scenery. Bryce seemed like a cheaper version of Vue. Then I found out that the damn thing wouldn't let you even import Poser files. But it would import daz files.  So, I decided to try out Daz studio again, but again I wasn't impressed. It seemed to be just as limited as before. First impresssions die hard, I guess.

I haven't used daz or Bryce ever since and I doubt I will be using Daz 4 either, even if Genesis  5 proves to be the best Daz figure ever.

I suppose it is time to model my own figures like wolf359 suggests, but I am not that good a modeler (yet?), to be honest. For now, I will stick with Poser, that's for sure and maybe start saving money for Lightwave or Maya.

Actually, you can import Poser Runtimes into Daz Studio 3, including your own meshes. This is probably true of Daz Studio 4 as well. I've used Daz Studio (combined with Poser and including Daz rigging plugins) to build original figures. Building original content is a bit more complicated than learning how to load Poser Runtimes in Daz Studio.

I do some animation in Poser and I have never felt I needed anything else. If you leave a gap between two poses you get a movement from one to the other. It may need some touch up.

What do aniblocks do if the end pose of 1 and the start pose of the next are not identical ?

It is true I have a bunch of scripts for repeating moves, adding random movements, and retiming a section, but they have been around for ages.

I am not in a position to spend more money on this hobby, so forget the new Daz figures and Studio 4. I will stay with Poser 7 and Lightwave and Carrara 5. 

I recenty downloaded DS4.

Here's my 2 cents..

The new UI is so so. Too many menus. Downright confusing. (even to someone using ds since 1.7)

Renders are fast.

Persosnally, it does NOT compare to Poser.

You can import poser stuff into bryce, as well. I have been doing it since Bryce and Poser 1.

Quote - You can import poser stuff into bryce, as well. I have been doing it since Bryce and Poser 1.

You can?? Well that's a major fail on my part then. It's good to know though. I was ready to just ditch the program all together.  I have to re-install it once my computer has been fixed (that seems to be taking forever...). I guess I just assumed that I needed daz studio to do it because Daz advertized that Bryce would work well with Daz Studio. - That, and I am stupid, obviously.

I know you can import poser stuff into Daz, but when I did it the results were less than adequate. I think Miki's magnets didn't agree with the program, or something. What bothered me also was that you couldn't import 3ds or OBJ files directly into it. That you needed a work around.

"What do aniblocks do if the end pose of 1 and the start pose of the next are not identical ?"

Unlike poser  the DAZ aniblock system will seamlessly, smoothly blend them together

In poser you can NOT  Mix multiple BVH motions from Different sources because the figure May jump 500 feet to the left or right etc when you import the second, or third BVH

watch the VIDEO

I linked to earlier for a better demonstration.

Cheers

Quote - for me it's a simple thing, which I see no one else has really touched on.

 

this new tech, right now is only in 1 application. it's good tech and needed. but.. never be an early adopter if a lot of money's involved.

a lesson learnt by anyone thats paid for HD DVD, Betamax, Minidisk...etc and ended up with useless toys after awhile.

^

This.

I'm in a strangely fortunate position here.  I'm skint so I have no choice but to wait and see what happens.  Maybe in a few years time I'll be able to rejoin the fray.  Until then I'm stuck with P6.

Quote -
"What do aniblocks do if the end pose of 1 and the start pose of the next are not identical ?"

Unlike poser the DAZ aniblock system will seamlessly, smoothly blend them together

In poser you can NOT Mix multiple BVH motions from Different sources because the figure May jump 500 feet to the left or right etc when you import the second, or third BVH

watch the VIDEO

I linked to earlier for a better demonstration.

Cheers

As long as there is no really working IK-solution in both applications, you cant really animate with them anyway. I give a shit about motion mixing if i cant even animate a 380° turn without getting a gimbal lock and flipping ik-chains.

I will wait for Poser9 however.

Quote - What bothered me also was that you couldn't import 3ds or OBJ files directly into it. That you needed a work around.

You can do that, as well. I know you can do it in DS 2 and 3 and I am assuming you can do it in DS4.

I will wait for Poser9 however."

Well  you have the option of paying the $3000+ for  a Professional Animation program that has  an Excellent IK solution& motion clips like we have in C4D.
or perhaps you should consider Blender
But I  you would'nt expect any real improvement  in posers aged animation tool set
in poser 9 as SM has shown that animation is NOT among their priorities.

Cheers

Quote - "As long as there is no really working IK-solution in both applications, you cant really animate with them anyway. I give a shit about motion mixing if i cant even animate a 380° turn without getting a gimbal lock and flipping ik-chains.

I will wait for Poser9 however."

Well you have the option of paying the $3000+ for a Professional Animation program that has an Excellent IK solution& motion clips like we have in C4D.
or perhaps you should consider Blender
But I you would'nt expect any real improvement in posers aged animation tool set
in poser 9 as SM has shown that animation is NOT among their priorities.

Cheers

sigh no offence, but i`m tired of this argument.

Servas!

"but i`m tired of this argument.

Servas!"

Tired of what argument???

if you mean the pointless  DAZ Studio vs Poser debate  in general....I with you there
If you refer to the undeniable fact that there are no true pro level Character animation tools in either DS or Poser  ,and NEVER Will be at their Current  price point...I am  with you there.

I see you only have posted here Five times
I hope we have not chased you away so soon.

Cheers

Quote - I've tried the beta. I don't think the interface is easier to use than Poser's

I tried Daz Studio a couple years ago and I couldn't figure out the interface at all! It was way too complicated and "busy." I couldn't even figure out how to open anything.  So after about 30 minutes I closed the program, and uninstalled it.

I'll stick to Poser. Yes, I have to pay for it, but it seems to me that the whole process is more streamlined and the interface itself is very easy to get started with. 

I'd rather pay for something where everything works upon install over something where you have to add plugins that may or may not work with each new beat up beta that comes out.

Quote - "but i`m tired of this argument.

Servas!"

Tired of what argument???

if you mean the pointless DAZ Studio vs Poser debate in general....I with you there
If you refer to the undeniable fact that there are no true pro level Character animation tools in either DS or Poser ,and NEVER Will be at their Current price point...I am with you there.

I see you only have posted here Five times
I hope we have not chased you away so soon.

Cheers

Only 5 times? Well i guess i had nothing important to say then. But i`m Poser user since hmm...Poser 4 i guess. I was also 3dsmax user since R1 over a decade ago. I abandoned this realm however. It was a bit too expensive for a hobby.

And i used Cinema-4d for a while. It was an early release. I can`t remember which version exactly, but it was very limited. Only basic modeling and animation features. Now look how powerful it is today (and expensive too...)

But i really like Poser for some reason. I just wish it had a working IK so i could animate my heroine making a fast turn with her sword. ;)

Is that really to much to ask?

Smith Micro, pretty please???? (No?...hmm,ok then)

And software wars...well they where always there. They will not go away i fear.

Bye

If you want real frustration?? try using poser "IK" for the first half of your animation
and then "Deactivate" it for the second half and watch how it magically re-easserts
its Feet "pinning" and ruins your key framed  leg motion later on...ARRRRRGHHHH!!!

as far as SM  goes, the hints from one of their insiders is that they will be focusing on better rigging for smoother joint bending.
you know so people dont have to post work their nekkid  renders as much on the Bendy parts.

Cheers

I think the pain for the Genesis figure will be in the support outside DAZ. Supporting items, like clothing etc, should match the flexibility of the Genesis figure to be competing with DAZ originals. Knowledge of content making is centered around using CR2's, adding morphs, and the like. For Genesis there is no .cr2, so where in *** to begin?

Then on packaging the product: Unless I did overlook something, there is no tool for making the product and file dependency of the Genesis system to make it show up in the 'my stuff' section.  

Conclude there is a treshold, and DAZ market strategy is shedding off the Poser market and starting to build a client base of newcomers that solemnly buy only DAZ products. There is a fork here. I stay on the Poser track.

I have to say that, overall DS 4 is better than Poser 4... :biggrin:

Quote - I have to say that, overall DS 4 is better than Poser 4... :biggrin:

LOL

loving my Poser Pro 2010 :)

 " D4 is better than Poser4!" It really IS!

I've spent some hours playing with D4. I think it blows Maya and 3D studio right out of the water! JUST kidding.

 Positives: 1) Genesis: See attached comparison.Daz sells a program that will let you use V4 clothing on Female Genesis, and M4...

  The bending really is far superior with Genesis

                2)The relational data base is nice. Select the Hair- and only textures and morphs FOR that Hair show up.

                 3) AniBlocks is an interesting concept- don't know if you can get under the hood and modify them though.

 In Poser I have movement poses, and materials poses all in the same folders- mostly identfied by the creators name rather than by WHAT they are.I can rename and rearrange them-but it is tedious- and I frequently FORGET what I have installed- Hmmmn what is that under "Sarsa?"

  Negatives: Rendering Engine- blech!"Reality" Plug in- looks great- but seems to take a very long time.

                  Lighting: blech!

                 TOO simplified- I likes to "tinker under the hood"

Simple Summary: staying with PoserPro2010- better lighting and texturing (IMHO)

and plays well with Vue, and Lightwave, and CD4, etc.

you said in poser we have material and poses in the same folder.

i always wondered why is this? so that you can load materials outside the material room? how can we save this?

Has anyone else noticed the decided lack of shoulder blades on Genesis?

Quote - you said in poser we have material and poses in the same folder.

 

i always wondered why is this? so that you can load materials outside the material room? how can we save this?

Because prior to Poser 5, there was no predesignated location for textures to go, so they ended up in the Pose folder (no, I don't know why, I came late to the Poser party).