I was looking at a youtube thing of a show Where the Disney studio of the early 1900's shows how they make their animations.

And really, it's so much easier and fun than making 3D animation . In fact i remember making flip books that looked really good.

In 3D you have to spend a bunch of time to get things right. That's why many use BVH Motion capture instead of creating keyframing animation by hand in the computer.

Traditional 2D animation is so much easier and fullfililing plus you can get results.

Here's why 3D animation is just so inefficient:

The whole posiing body part by bodypart, facial expression by facial expression etc.

That whole thing takes a bunch of clicks and pulling and posing and HOPINg that it will look good. On the other hand when you make traditaion 2D drawing animation/or flip books, you either have tracing paper or at least you can flip it back to see the drawing before and you can see how the 2 different poses overlap and thus you can feel the flow.

With poser or whatever, you click to go to the previous frame or next frame but everything else disappears..the frame you're not on disappears like air and you can't really keep it in your brain.

You know what i'm starting to think? THat i hate the whole 3D process.

It would help if each frame was like a transparent layer so you could see the other frames.

LOL.

I use Toonboom or AnimeStudio for 2D. I can't draw my way out of a wet paper bag with a sharp pencil. But I can with the vert drawing pens.

I will be using both 2D and 3D till the day I die. I just love it and have to much fun doing it.

Traditional animation had better stories, too.

Quote - Traditional animation had better stories, too.

OK, I"ll bit. How do you figure that. What has media used got to do with the story. Bad writing is bad writing or good writing is good writing, no matter what you use.

I disagree. The artist had to draw a believable figure, taking into account the pose , and position of the figure, perspective etc. They had to manually perform the 'tweening' process that in 3d is all automatic. It took incredible amounts of time , and all had to be redone if the director changed his mind.

What they did have was the ability, by drawing the figure to do compression and stretching of teh figure. The 'happy choo-choo'  bit, which is not realistic , but gives cartoons a special feel.

......

Are these "2D animation"???

SAMPLE ONE

SAMPLE TWO

Cheers**
**

Trick question?

They look 2D but are done with 3D mesh figures.  But ask that somewhere else that does not know those figures and see what kind of answer you would get.

Looks good though. What did you do it in. C4D?

BTW specking of AnimeStudio. I just got the email from SM about AnimeStudio 8 released on June 8.

"Looks good though. What did you do it in. C4D?"

Nope
Fast Open GL Renders From DAZ Studio  rendered to image files
and then Auto Processed in Photoshop CS3 with a sketch plugin via a Photoshop action.

@Tebop If you dont have the patience to animate a 3D figure with a few simple Key Frames
you will NEVER make it as a 2D animator
having to Draw every frame.....Sorry.

Cheers

LOL. Sorry about that. I have seen you show many toon renders from C4D that I thought maybe you had some script for it to do that.

Anyone with the inclination, intelligence and patience can create computer animations of a complexity easily surpassing handmade flipbooks.

I think I'll post a thread here about how left is right and black is white. Maybe that will get some responses.

Well, I highly recommend this animation - and the lady's many other efforts - for your consideration and as a source of inspiration.

I think these have a charm and a certain je ne sais quoi all of their own. 

I'm not being sarcastic, I really do.

Quote - Traditional animation had better stories, too.

Nonsense.  I present Pixar in evidence.  Arguably some of the best animated stories ever made.

I think these have a charm and a certain je ne sais quoi all of their own.

Some people either don't notice the robotic glide in their animations or just don't care to fix it. The same goes for robo-speach where the lips don't match the words and the face is void of all expression. I've seen a few good Poser animations, so I know it is possible to do better.

You guys are not getting my point. I just made the title "Traditional animation" but i just mean 2D animation where you draw by hand, whether flipbooks or using the computer with some 2D illustration program.

I"ve made plenty of flip books, and i can get results in like 10 minutes for example. a nice little animation that looks good.

Yet if you try to do in 3D, if you do'n't have camera animation it looks really static, if you don't get CORRECT camera animation it looks bad, and if you don't get realistic character movement than it looks plastic and fake.

If there was  a flip book program for Mac, where you can draw each frame and see the one before I can guarantee you i can create better animation than i have ever done in poser.

I"m not saying 3D is not great. I'm just saying 3D is not for everyone.

Guys I got it. Ther's a program called FLIPBOOK. It's great!!!!

why not post yer OT anim questions in animation forum here?  it's really dead, hence they could use some new threads.

Quote - where you can draw each frame and see the one before

I can do that in both AnimeStudio Pro and Toonboom

Answering the original question...

It all depends on several things:

How competent you are as an artist.

How complex your animation is to be.

Your timeframe.

I'm a decent enough artist and I've worked in computer games when, back in the day, we had to draw every single frame of animation.  Fortunately, these were usually just some character running around shooting at stuff.  I also used to make a few anims in DPaint (remember that?) for fun.  I can also do the hand drawn flick book/cel stuff well enough, too.

Making a "traditional" animation the size and scope of Disney's feature productions requires a small army.  Even then, 3D style animation was incredibly difficult - ie virtually impossible - to do.  Arguably, the only real 3D effect was Disney's multiplane setup which gave a sensation of depth and parallax movement.  Even that was clunky and hard to use, so they gave up on it.

With CG you can automate many things to such a degree that it becomes feasible to have a much smaller team - or even one person - complete a complex 3D project.  I'm no 3D animator and I'm in no rush to become one but it seems to me that anyone using Poser for anything more than amusement purposes is barking up the wrong tree when it comes to animation.  With the right kit, anything is easy.

What i Don't get is why don't i see more Poser films on youtube. There's literally like less than 10.

Are people embarrased of their skill so even if they make stuff they're keeping it to themselves and not sharing?

In taht case , it means most Poser/DAZ users are just hobbiest leaerning but are not really confident about their skills.

yeah like me, that's why i don't share stuff. Cause i suck.

Or maybe they use other programs as well so poser is not the main app that is named or not named at all as being used and so you are not getting the results in your search.

Really, after the viral sale of Messiah, Poser would be just a tool to get those figures into it. The same goes for other highend software. Poser is just one of the tools.

Not everyone likes to animate or model. In fact I would say that the majority of DS/Poser users are more into images that they can postwork as well. That does not mean they are hobbiest. There are many very good artists that use DS/Poser as one of thier tools to get what they want. Sure there are a lot of click and render images of the latest thing they bought. That still does not take away the talent that is out there using these apps.

On a side note. I watched the webinar of Anime Studio 8 Pro today. Very nice new features. I know what I'll be buying next week.

Actually this was quite easy I think I will do some political stuff
with this
(Not for posting here though)

Cheers

link removed by a mod

Quote - ... but it seems to me that anyone using Poser for anything more than amusement purposes is barking up the wrong tree when it comes to animation.

Worth repeating.

Also...To cspear...I subscribed to"Wendyvainity" some months ago...I'm a huge fan.

She's got about 150 Poser videos.

Tom

Quote - ... but it seems to me that anyone using Poser for anything more than amusement purposes is barking up the wrong tree when it comes to animation.....

Worth repeating.

 

Well it depends on your definition of "entertainment" and who is doing the entertaining
My Clients are perhaps trying to entertain
people but my $$Contracts$$ to provide them with Character animation is not for my Entertainment its for Money.

Also poser is very suitable for Legal Forensic
/accident re-creation such as
"how lift objects safely" type Videos etc
that are instructional  and not necessarily
to "entertain".

You see there are reason to animate Characters that have NOTHING to do with trying to compete with Dysney/Pixar etc.

Cheers

In 3d you have to spend a bunch of time getting things right? Doesn't that apply to everything in life? Whether it's 2d, 3d, or digging a ditch, quality requires effort. Something that seems to have gotten lost along the way.

If you prefer the 2d process, that's what you should do. If you like the final product better, it's a good choice. Please, though, don't use it as a path to not trying to improve.

As for not posting anything because you "sucK", you'd be surprised how a little input from people who do the same thing can improve your skills. Even if you share it privately with one or two people, it helps.

I get your point there, Wolf.  In fact, I've seen Poser animations on the screens at the self checkout desks in our local store.

I was, admittedly, thinking along the lines of big production entertainment animation.

As you stated, Poser is perfectly suited to training videos and the like.

If you prefer the 2d process, that's what you should do. If you like the final product better, it's a good choice. Please, though, don't use it as a path to not trying to improve.

As for not posting anything because you "sucK", you'd be surprised how a little input from people who do the same thing can improve your skills. Even if you share it privately with one or two people, it helps."

@Scanmead Im sure you are aware that some People  have ZERO interest in any actual feedback/ guidance or advice related to the  technical/artisistc question they pretended to ask in their thread title.
They only sought to the attention of well meaning forum users who got suckered in thinking they were sharing software knowledge & tips

for example the assertion by the OP
that poser has now way of letting one see a frame before and after is just false.

Simply set your number of Cached renders to a value you need .
move throughout the timeline to any point you desire and choose "antialias Document"
this creates an instant stored screencaps of your pose
which you can scroll through"flipbook" style as you wish ( see pic attached)
but this, like any other actual solution, is Always...Always!! Ignored by this OP as obtaining useful information about poser/animation etc was never his
intention.

Cheers

Quote - What i Don't get is why don't i see more Poser films on youtube. There's literally like less than 10.

Because, as in all the things you claim to do, you really don't put in the effort! If you had really looked you would have found many Poser animations. My Video Channel on YouTube alone has 11 animations made in both Bryce & Poser and that's just mine.

Wendy's Channel has well over 100 animations! Most of which annoy the hell out of me because whatever sound creation program she's using grates on my nerves. But that's just my personal issues with the sounds. Not a knock on her great efforts.

If your a fan of Terry Pratchett's Discworld Fantasy Comedy series. Someone animated the first two books.

So, really, put a little effort in before you come back and make yourself look any worse than you already do now.

Wolf, yeah, I know, but maybe someone will try it. I'm very indebted to a 3DC member called Pinhead, and Incarnadine here for countless suggestions, looking at files, and shared knowlege.

Steve, thanks for the vid links. Frankly, I like the oopsies Poser can create better than the good stuff, though. They are more hilarious than any deliberate attempt at humor could ever be. I am, however, a sucker for anything with Robbie the Robot. ;)

I like 2D animation better. I don't hate 3D animation I just think it is vastly overrated.

I use the Poser figures also as a reference for my figure drawing.