Hi

With the gaining popularity of 3D imaging I was wondering if anyone had come up with a way to create Stereographic images and video with Poser.

I looked into this many years ago.

At that time it wasn't possible but I thought that maybe someone has developed software that will do the conversion, or something like that.

I used to have a lot of fun messing around with 3D games.

When flat screens came along that was the end of 3D until the new faster refresh monitors came along.

Now I'm getting interested again.

If I could do a video in 3D, I'd be tempted to spring for a 3D set up for my present computer.

I'm guessing a lot of people would be interested in creating 3D images that they could show off on their computer.

Mike

Attached Link: http://www.poserdirect.com/concepts.html

Yep :) Only for photos for now though and some of my approaches are below..

How to use .MPO files (3d photos) within Poser

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2830705

Anaglyph software questions

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2830302

In this thread the background photo is a 3d photo.

I'm guessing a lot of people would be interested in creating 3D images that they could show off on their computer.

I certainly do :) I like the challenge of getting stuff like 3d photos from a camera into Poser or making Parallax Scrolling within Poser actually work (link above).

I used to have a lot of fun messing around with 3D games.

Likewise :) Playing Star Trek Elite Force using a pair of 3D Revelator's was great fun.

Still got the glasses, but no machine capable of running an elsa graphics card.

Hi

Thanks for the information.

I'll look through the stuff you mentioned.

I haven't seen a 3D TV set yet, one of these days I'll have to get to Best Buy and see what they really look like.

I still remember how neat it was to play Tomb Raider with my 3D glasses on!  Lara leaping from vine to vine and things flying toward you, what a blast.  I used to show everyone who came to my house.

It would be nice if someone would create a suite of tools for the home user that would allow the creation of Stereo Images and Video on a home computer level of sophistication.  

I don't need to be able to do Avatar but some simple action stuff would be neat.

Maybe an oppertunity for Smith Micro, or DAZ.

I'm not sure how complecated it would be, I've seen ads for software that claims to be able to convert flat movies to 3D but I have no idea if they reall work or not.

An add on program that would convert DAZ Studio and Poser images and Video to Stereo would be great.

Mike

Hi MrSparky.

I downloaded and installed the Parallax application.

I think this is something I could really use, but I'm having a few problems with it.  

I was already planning a video where my Lucy character is driving her Lotus Super 7 down the road, this would be perfect to create the 3D feel in the scene.

I sent you an e-mail with a video and an image that show the problems I'm having.

Thanks again for the information.

Mike

I’ve been tinkering with a method of rendering the left/right images automaticaly in Poser using a Python script. Here are some images I did earlier int he year and last year as experimentation in the technique.

http://www.worldofpaul.com/anaglyph/redblueanaglyphs.html

Since then, my Poser “rig” has been streamlined and the set up script now creates a left/right camara (parented to the dolly camera), as well as a “focal plane” which determines how/where the cameras point (in effect, this is the screen surface).

What it can’t do is combine the resulting left/right images into an anaglyph or .MPO file - you need external software to do that. I’ll put a test scene together with what I have now and post one when it’s done.

Hello,

    You will find in the free stuff section three Python scripts related to stereography. One script is for image generation, one is for movie generation and one is for calculating the stereo base (Distance between camera). I also create a group on  Flicker for uploading 3D CGI  images.

Here are the link to the Python scripts

Stereoscopy : Image generator

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=62715

Stereoscopy : Stereo movie generator

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=63140

Stereoscopy : Stereobase calculator

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=62961

Flicker group (You have to open a free account to have access the photostream of the group
http://www.flickr.com/groups/stereo_3d/

Here is a list of tutorials related to stereoscopy

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2817598

A thread on how to use 3DTV

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2824948

You can search the Renderosity and Daz sites using the word stereoscopy and anaglyph for other threads.

Hope that you will find the stuff useful

Allstereo

Hi Hairy

I checked out the images on the link you posted.

I even had a set of Red Blue glasses on hand.

Pretty neat.

Hi Allstereo

I'll check out the links you posted.

Thanks for the information.

Mike

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2195932&section_id=&genre_id=&np

This one looks fantastic on my monitor.

Really has depth and is very sharp.

Mike

Mike ...will be sending you an email soon.
Been working all weekend and havn't had any chance to properly look at the issues and find some solutions until now.

Nice image by toxic wolf there.

hairydalek...like your approach.

What it can’t do is combine the resulting left/right images into an anaglyph or .MPO file

This does the trick for creating anaglyphs...
http://www.stereoeye.jp/software/index_e.html

But havn't found anything yet that does much .MPO files, except spilt them into a pair. Though thats no biggie as MPO's are usually created in camera.  Theres very also few viewers around. Fuji say use the camera and Sony say buy one of their big tellys.  

Allstereo - thanks for those links.

mike - please check your email.

Hello all,

     One very popular and extensive stereoscopic program is Stereo Photo Maker. It is free. You can generate many forms of stereoscopic picture (anaglyph, cross view, MPO files, etc.). Easy to use. Here is the link

http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/

The images I linked to earlier in this thread were processed manually into anaglyphs in Photoshop. It was a bit messy, and I found the results a little less spectacular. When time permits, I’ll run them through Anaglyph Workshop.

I do plan on making my Python scripts available - I’m on holiday right now, and I’m also keen to see how they perform in Poser Pro 2012 now. I always find writing documentation for stuff  as equally involving as creating the scripts (I write add ons for another application) - if not more so.

Woo Hoo! I did it!

This looks good on my computer.  No double image and sharp edges.

I did another test where I made a ball really look like it's floating in front of the monitor.

It seems that the less color the better. If the colors are too strong it makes it look fuzzy.

Now that I know how to do it I'll work up something more complex with a ground plane tomorrow and the next step will be trying to do a video.

It's going to be a very short one. LOL that's going to be a lot of work.

Mike

My gratitude to Toxic Wolf who told how to do the Left Right images.  1.5 inches each way from center, it works.

Quote - Woo Hoo! I did it!

This looks good on my computer.  No double image and sharp edges.

I did another test where I made a ball really look like it's floating in front of the monitor.

It seems that the less color the better. If the colors are too strong it makes it look fuzzy.

Now that I know how to do it I'll work up something more complex with a ground plane tomorrow and the next step will be trying to do a video.

It's going to be a very short one. LOL that's going to be a lot of work.

Mike

My gratitude to Toxic Wolf who told how to do the Left Right images.  1.5 inches each way from center, it works.

Well done! You can use colour - depending on the software you use to make the anaglyph depends on how well it is preserved. Your filters also affect colour. Some are stronger than others, and that will also have an effect. Things to avoid are strong reds and blues in your pictures. This causes problems as the filters cancel them out in one side and not on the other, causing a swimming or confusing image. So make sure that coloured object will show through both the red and blue filters. Also avoid plain areas. I took some stereo photos in snow, and the pictures fail as anaglyphs because the White snow effectively tells your brain that trickery is afoot, and you can see the edges of objects in a quite distracting way. Here is an example of what I mean. The lamp post at the front has red/cyan shadows against the White sky. They show up as hosts when viewed using 3D glasses. You can never fully avoid this, but minimising is is good. Background noise (sky with clouds in this instance) would help. Also note that what works for you won't work for others. I like to have anaglyphs pop immediately. Some I have seen seem to require huge amounts of effort, which us bad. Keeping your distance between cameras to a natural distance is a good idea, as is keeping the focal length of your camera. I find 35mm to 50mm gives best results.

Hi again.

Check this out....

Here is something that I just figured out.

This image is the same on as above but I opened it in Photoshop and copy and pasted some of the spheres and placed them in the image.

Also adjusted the image a little.

Working in Photoshop in 3D is really wierd. But it lets you see in real time what you are doing to the image.

It works well. The big sphere is a bit disconcerting. Give me a few minutes and I'll dig out my man on a plank image. It should amuse.

Hi

I'm using StereoPhoto Maker, it's free.

I tried a trial on one you have to buy, but this worked just as well.

You can manually register the images while you look at it full size.

Just move the slider back and forth until the ghosting disappears.

http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/index.html

You can't seem to get rid of the ghosting at all levels which made me wonder...

Can I adjust it so the ball in the foreground has no ghosting and then adjust it so the figure has no ghosting, output both sets of images, create 2 3D images.

Then, paste the image of the ball from the one with no ghosting (I already know you can paste them in) into the image that has it adjusted so that the figure has no ghosting in Photoshop making sure that the are registered with the original ball.

Sounds like it could work if you have a solid background like my test image.

I ordered some Nvidia red blue glasses from Amazon, that will fit over my computer glasses, they are cheap, I'll get rid of these cardboard ones I'm using now.

I also ordered some flip up clipons even cheaper.

I'm driving my wife crazy yelling "Come here you have to see this!"

Mike

PS.

By the way I like the falling image, gives me more ideas.

My final goal is to make a 3D video.  I would like to get a 3D setup for my computer with the shutter glasses eventually and do some real full color 3D.

But I have a very good monitor that has too low a refresh rate to do it.  Maybe I could get a second monitor just for 3D stuff.

I had a setup like that back when I had a old style monitor.

I'm a life long Dr Who fan.

Check this out, it's pretty neat.

http://www.3dvideoclips.net/doctor-who-the-dream-child-3d/

Mike

My 3D glasses are a free set I got as part of an advertising feature at the cinema. They are cardboard, but the gels in them are pretty good. They are getting a bit fragile now, but I know what the colours should look like when it comes to replace them.

Another route to go if setting up a monitor is too much (I think most LCD screens are not fast enough for shutter 3D displays, but this will change obviously) is to make stereo cards and use a viewer. Look for a book entitled A Village Lost and Found by Dr Brain May (he of Queen guitar fame - he collects stereoscopic images). The book is full of stereo images from his collection, and comes with a standard card viewer which will work with most you’ll find in antique shops. You can, of course, make your own by printing out images to the correct size and putting them in the viewer.

Mattel also make a 3D viewer for the iPhone (should you have one of those devices) and you should be able to make 3D images for that. It looks a bit like a View Master which your iPhone fits into.

I can’t check the video at the moment - I’m on a slow connection on holiday. I’ll try to remember to look when I get back home to the braodband network. Doctor Who is a life-long obsession for me too. Current series picks up very soon, I understand.

hairydalek - your falling guy image is very effective! Like your technique as well.

The book by Brian May has been featured a lot in Amateur Photographer magazine lately and his interviews make for a good read.  

re getting the basic red/blue glasses.  our local cheapy bookshop has these in kids books. In some $1  dollar books theres 2 pairs.

Both paper and plastic 3D glasses can be bought at Amazon for a reasonable price. I tried the below glasses and they work well, but a friend already broke a pair.

http://www.amazon.com/3D-Glasses-Variety-Pack-Magenta/dp/B0038ND4A4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1313616376&sr=8-6

The Elsa Revelator glasses can still be used on XP machines without an ELSA graphics card. All you need is an NVidia graphics card and their old stereo drivers. MS didn't support them in Vista, so you'd have to have kept an older computer that runs XP. NVidia now has a more expensive 3D stereo package that uses a different format and the new drivers aren't supposed to be compatible anymore with older page-flipping glasses.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dstereo_91.31.html

Thanks gagnonrich thats really handy to now. Slowly building up a new machine and just got XP pro dual booting with 7x64 (so a lot of stuff won't run). So wonder if I can get the glasses working on that.

Hi Everyone!

I just received the new 3D glasses I ordered from Amazon.

They are clip on, flip-ups which is very handy when working on the computer.

But there was a surprise.

The red, blue lenses are the opposite of the ones I have been using.

When I looked at my image the depth was reversed and not as sharp.

I looked online and found that the new ones were correct and my old cardboard ones, which were clearly marked "This side toward face, are wrong.

I now understand why all the samples that other people are showing here look wierd. I thought you were all crazy! LOL

Now my image looks weird, and everyone elses looks great.

The new glasses are much clearer.

I'll redo my image and post it tomorrow.

Mike

PS. I purchased these two pair of glasses from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/3D-Glasses-Movies-Gaming-Require/dp/B002TXYEV2/ref=pd_sim_t_3

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HN2U7W

I have the clipons and they work great, very handy for working on the computer.

I have to wear glasses so I needed some thing that would work with them.

Mike - that explains it! Reversing the filters on my glasses makes your images make sense!

Ok, here is my image made with the new glasses.

I hope this looks better!

The clarity always seems to suffer a little when they are uploaded and resized.

The original image is 1920 by 1200.

Mike

Hi again.

Does anyone know of a source for 3D models of the Planets?

I'd like to have Mars the Earth Saturn, and the Moon in particular.

It seems like someone must have been tempted to do this.

I'm not sure how you create a texture for a sphere?

Is there a templet for that.

I suppose I could do it in Blacksmith 3D somehow.

Any ideas?

Mike

Quote - Ok, here is my image made with the new glasses.

I hope this looks better!

The clarity always seems to suffer a little when they are uploaded and resized.

Much better :-) Clarity always suffers when uploading images to online hosting services. You see it more with this kind of image because you lose a fair amount because of the nature of the anaglyph. One thing to remember - your filters cause the image to be darker than you expect. If an image is too dark as an anaglyph, I'll run it through Photoshop to brighten the left/right images a bit (usually by 30 to 40%) BEFORE making the anaglyph. It's important to do any brightening at that point in the process. If you have Poser Pro,you may want to try upping the gamma in your rendering settings. I've not tried this yet, preferring Photoshop for that kind of post processing. The space ship picture wasn't corrected in this way.

Hello Mike,

   Your last trial is very good. In your post, you try to remove the ghost by moving the images with the horizontal slider in Stereo Photo Maker. In fact, moving the slider determines the position of the stereo window. Object can be in front of the window, behind the window, at window. To remove ghosts, it is better to work with contrast and brigtness in Stereo Photo Maker (SPM). In the next posts, I present various windows settings.

Allstereo

This image demonstrates image sets at window. The right hand is just situated at the stereo window (your computer screen). Note that the hand is aligned for the red and blue images.

In this image, the stereo window is set to have the hand (in fact all the right arm) in front of the stereo window. This is the classical pop-up effect. To have this effect, the far object (here the face) is aligned for the red and blue images. Test the position of the arm in front of the computer screen by moving the mouse cursor over the image.

In this image, the stereo window is set between the face and the hand to decrease the ghosting. 

Hi

I get it now!

Your demo makes it very clear.

This image looks amazingly clear and free of ghosting.

Can you tell me exactly the process you used to create it.

What I'm doing is making two images 3" apart left to right, 1.5" each side of center.

I was testing last night and realized that having a very dark background isn't a great idea either.

I haven't really messed with the contrast etc. in Sereo Photo Maker, I'll do that today.  I have worked with contrast and brightness in Photoshop after making the image.

I do have the feeling that I would like to make the red part of the image brighter then the defualt setting, the red lens lets less light through then the cyan side.

Last night I downloaded Stereo Movie Maker and made my first animation.

It's not as hard as I thought, I just made two .avi files the same way I did with the stills and loaded them in to SMM.

But I'm going back to working with the stills until I get images comparable to what you are doing.

I've also found that the glasses make a big difference, the original cardboard glasses are not at all comparable to the clip-ons I'm using now.

When I look at the images with them they are very fuzzy, with the new glasses the images look really sharp so the lens clarity is much better.

So if anyone is interested in doing this buy some good glasses, they are very cheap, and Amazon has a wide selection.

The flip up clip-ons that i'm using work really well for working on the computer because you can switch back and forth so quickly.

Thanks for the help.

Mike

  Here is how I achieve my anaglyph images to decrease ghosting and preserve 3D effect. First, it is better to avoid black or white as a background. For example, in the render settings never selects black as the render background. Select a gray shader.

  As indicaed by Hairydekek, avoid red and cyan that are similar to the red and cyan of the glass filter. In this case, red or cyan in the image can remove the 3D effect because 3D effect depend on color separation. In fact, the Color Dubois anaglyph (see the Stereo Photo Maker menu) is an analglyph approach that change color to avoid this problem.

   So, in my images, I changed the red color of the T-shirt to orange. I used a gray background and I adjusted the brightness in Stereo Photo Maker. Here is how:

With your right and left image selected, in Stereo Photo Maker, select "Stereo" in the main bar, then "Color Anaglyph", then "Ghost reduced anaglyph". This selection will open the Anti-Ghost window. In upper part, first select the type of anaglyph. Half color is often a good choice. 

 Under the first histogram, move the upper arrow (brightness) to the left or right and look (with your anaglyph glass) at the image for the result (At first, move to the extreme to see the effect). Then move the lower arrow (contrast) to finalize if necessary. When finish, click on OK

 Now, when you save the stereo image, don't forget to check the case entitled "No compression ghosting". If you leave this case unchecked, some white lines will appear at the transition between red and cyan images.

 If you don't like the ghosting, learn the cross view method or purchase a carboard  stereoscope (Loreo Pixi 3D viewer ($2.50), see the link below and the image) for viewing parallel stereo pairs on computer screen.

http://www.berezin.com/3d/loreo_lite.htm

Hi Allstereo

Thanks for the info.

I'll print this out and go through it tomorrow.

I got another pair of glasses.

These are also from Amazon and are listed as being from Nvidia though I see no evidence of that on the package or glasses.

However they do work better then the set I'm using now.

The Blue lens is denser and the Red lens is lighter and they seem to feel more comfortable on the eyes.

Mike

Hi Again

Here's something that's kind of fun!

Take a 3D game that will let you get a first person view.

Frame your shot, and make a screen capture and name it Left Eye.

Use the strafe button to move the camera position to the right a little, and make another screen shot. Name it Right Eye.

Open the pictures in 3D Picture Makers and process them.

These are from Age of Conan...

Hello Mike,

    Very good, particulary the second one.

Hi

The first one suffered a little more from being uploaded for some reason.

I just looked at them side by side and the original looks a lot sharper, while the second one looks only a little blurrier then the original.

The second one is more dramatic though, and the fact that it has less color seems to help.

Now I'm wondering if there is any way that I could insert a poser figure into one.

Tricky with the double image but I'll give it a try and see wheat happens.

Mike

Hi, all,

I’ve uploaded my Python scripts for you to have a go with. Youll find them on my Anaglyph pages, which I’ve updated, here:

http://www.worldofpaul.com/anaglyph/

The system was built in Poser Pro on a Mac. I’ve no reason to assume that it won’t work on Windows, but I can’t say for sure.

You’ll need to manually install it in your Runtime folder, and link up a button to the buttons.py file in the folder of scripts you will have downloaded. After that, it’s just a case of setting up a scene, hitting a button and making the anaglyph from the reuslting left & right images you get.

Have fun!

Hi Hairy

I'll check it out, I don't understand any of the Python Script stuff so I guess it's time to learn.

Here is another image that I made in Age of Conan.

I thought I got the color to work better in this one.

I've experimented with inserting a Poser figure but it would only work with the figure at the plane not if you tried to have the figure have any depth.

But I have another idea about inserting the figure into both the left and right images before the Anaglyph is made. My only concern is how to place the figure in both images in the correct location, since the background images have already been moved where do I put the figure in the left and right image.

I'll try that tomorow.

Mike

bad news! 3D devices (televisions) sales are lower than forecast, due to lack of consumer interest, as well as depression in euro-zone/american economy. :crying:

Hi

I haven't tried viewing any of the 3D stuff I've done and collected on my HD TV yet.

I have searched for good Anaglyph images and have found quite a few really high quality images that are very clear.

I've put them all in a folder and I've ordered 4 more sets of anaglyph glasses.

Next week when we have company for dinner I'm going to have a slide show, on the TV if it works well.

I know the stuff looks great on my monitor.

Here's one I liked a lot.

Quote - Hi Hairy

I'll check it out, I don't understand any of the Python Script stuff so I guess it's time to learn.

Not much to learn from your end - just out the scripts in your Runtime/Python folder and link up a button in the Python script window. That's it. The rests all controlled through Poser's regular interface. There are a few good reasons 3D TV hasn't taken off: 1 - the need for glasses. This is a big obstacle, and glasses from a Sony set won't work on a Panasonic, etc., so if you have friend round to watch a 3D film, you'll need to invest in extra sets of glasses. They're not cheap. Glasses free 3D TV will see mor eu take, but I think we have a decade to wait. 2 - If, like me, you bought an HD TV, why should I buy another set so soon? HD TV took off about a year before thebfirst 3D TV sets appeared. 3 - Content. A lot of 3D stuff is pretty poor because it's not been made using dedicate 3D kit, rather it's been converted in post. So the majority of 3D films have not sold the idea of 3D I. The home. There hasn't been the killer film yet. I doubt there will be as film makers are learning about the process. Avatar was an excellent technical demo, but the story was no less engaging in 2D, and on the face of it pretty shallow. I could go on. I like 3D,but it's not ready for primetime yet.

Hi 

I just tried running the 3D images through my 42" HD TV.

It works up to a point but there is a distinct double image that I don't see on  my Computer Monitor, a Dell Ultra Sharp 24".

Both of them run at the same basic resolution, 1920 by 1200 for the monitor and 1920 by 1080 for the TV.

It automaticlly adjusts for the difference somehow so the images aren't distorted when I run the images as a slide show.

Any idea why I get the double image on the TV and not on the Monitor?

I was going to show my pictures on the TV but I guess I'll stick with the Monitor for now.

Mike

Hello Mike,

   Effectively, you have to place the figure in each image to have a depth effect of the figure. How, just put it at same distance from a point in figure that is at the correct depth.

   About 3DTV, I recently purchased a passive LG 3DTV and my stereo photos or Poser compositions look fantastic.  You have to have cheap polarized glasses as at the Cinema. In fact, four are included with the TV set. If you have a chance to test that Passive 3DTV at your local dealer, try it and you will understand what I mean. 

Hi

I'm going to try and import a left and right image that I make in Age of Conan and then place the Poser Character in the foreground.

Since I can change the Image in the background instantly without affecting the Poser figure the only part I'm not sure about is how I should move the Poser or camera right left.

I think that I can probably just ignore the fact that the background images are different and move it the way I normally would.

Since the backgrounds aren't really in the image anyway I guess they will just come out the way they went in.

Right now I'm trying to set up Hairydalek's Python Script.

I'll get back to the forum later with results.

Mike

Hi Hairy

I'd swear that this is the third time I have posted this. I must be losing it!

I have a couple of questions about your Stereo Python Script.

I took me a while to get it to work, I found that after I use it I have to click the setup button and then the render button, before it will work again, don't know if this is normal or not but it works as long as I do it that way.

My problem is that every time I use it and then go back to the Main screen, the Stereo Button has disappeared, and I have to set it up all over again.

How do I get the button to become permanent?

Second by default it saves the images in Photoshop .psd format.

Is there a way to have it save in .tiff or .jpg format that Stereo Picture Maker can read?  The way it is now I have to open them all in Photoshop and convert them.

Other then that it is working great.

Here's a  test image I did with it.

Mike

Hi Allstereo

I didn't know that you could use Polarized glasses with TV.

Mike

Hello Mike,

     Your could use it with 3DTV that generated polarized images such as LG 3DTV (Not all LG 3DTV but those that are said to be passive.

   To look at your images on these TV, you have to convert your side by side image to the MPO format using StereoPhoto Maker.