Hi all
it seems there is a whole new Management & marketing team  at DAZ inc.
Dan Farr no longer CEO
Replaced by "experienced" CEO Jim Thornton.
new official Company name is "Digital Art Zone'
no longer 'DAZ"

As for poser related news and According to "Daz Rand"  there will Never be a hi-res version of genesis in poser Via the Cr2 exporter unless Smith Micro Alters Future releases of poser to Support "Catmull-Clark Subdivision"
Interesting times.

THREAD HERE

cheers

Quote -

As for poser related news and According to "Daz Rand"  there will Never be a hi-res version of genesis in poser Via the Cr2 exporter unless Smith Micro Alters Future releases of poser to Support "Catmull-Clark Subdivision"
Interesting times.

Are you sure he wasn't joking?  If Poser supported Sub-D, there would be no need to export a hi-res version.

I'm sure ColorCurvature could whip up a script to do it at render-time...

PS "Digital Art Zone soon" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Looks like someone is trying to play hardball.  Sadly playing hardball has a history of not working.  Especially when one or both parties seems like they want it to fail... 

Both topics I linked to are relavant.  In Bball, the owners want a new financial structure and the players reps/lawyers want more money.  In the supercommittee, both sides picked the members farthest to the extreme in hopes that the far left (tax raisers only) could come into an agreement with the far right (spending cutters only).

It looks like both SM and Daz are now at ends and are going to split up a market that is too small to begin with. 

Time to start looking into being a prime member.  My money is in poser/V4.  Not spending more to learn a software package I don't like for a figure that won't even work on my set up.

And good luck with that.

Laurie

"Are you sure he wasn't joking?  If Poser supported Sub-D, there would be no need to export a hi-res version."

He Did not seem to joking What he was saying  is that the CR2 Exporter will never output an already SubD,d version of  V5/genesis
it will have to be subdivided with CC SubD
in poser. if Color curvature can somehow Add CCsubD with a Script that will solve "the genesis in poser" issue for you poser users.

Quote from THREAD HERE

"Genesis/V5 will never be "High-Rez" in Poser unless SM decides to implement Catmull-Clark subdivision. That is a pretty big deal so even if it does happen it will be quite some time.
With this iteration we are working on making clothing work better and the export process smoother and easier."

Cheers

Sigh

I said it before and I'll say it again; daz needs to make a poser-friendly version of gene.

too soon, grasshopper... too soon.

Good.  That settles it.  No need for further conjecture and guessing.

Genesis will never work natively in Poser.

Time for Poser users to move on to bigger and better than DAZ figures.

Oh, wait, make that Digital Art Zone figures.  LOL!

It's the best thing that ever happened to Poser users.

The problem is that "on the fly" subD doesn't equal a high(er) rez mesh.

CC SubD (As well as Posers polygon smoothing) can smooth a mesh.

But they can't add mesh detail.

To add mesh detail to a low res mesh, you need displacement maps. Which introduce their own sets of problems.

Catmull Clark SubD is a "nice to have" feature, but definitely NOT a proper replacement for what can be done with a "proper" high res figure.

Even games these days have no problems any more with higher res meshes, so turning back the wheel to the Dork and Posette days with ~20.000 polygon meshes really doesn't make any sense.

If your machine can run Poser 9 or PP 2012 (Because that is needed for Genesis anyway), a high res version of Genesis will have zero impact on it's performance.

Too many polygons are bad.

But too few are even worse.

"Even games these days have no problems any more with higher res meshes"

I am not a gamer but those Game characters are still SINGLE mesh rigs with all kinds of baked in lighting&occlusion and other Game engine optimizations
with poser DAZ you still have the polygons of the naked figure
then the pants then the shirt,the jacket, the boots
etc, etc, etc.

It adds up.

Cheers

Something like this?  This is from CC's script for non-WM figures, so the weight maps aren't subdivided, but the morphs and joint centers work.  I'm sure he will update this in the fullness of Time.

I still don't think the ears are that great, for the reasons JoePublic notes...

It's late, and, before I go to bed, I want to make sure I posted this to make CERTAIN you guys have our POV on this.

1. Please don't post conjecture or theories.  If you can't back up a statement with links, please don't post it here.

2. Please don't turn this into an anti-DAZ thread.

3. Please continue to be civil, because that is awesome.

4. Please note that DAZ bashing, at this point, is NOT going on in this thread.  If you have a problem with any certain post or poster, please send me, ryuslilangel, or bantha a sitemail, and we will take care of things as soon as we can.  Please note that for me it's currently 10:30pm, for ryuslilangel it'll be 9:30pm, and for bantha, it'll be about 4:30am, so if you can't get through to us, PLEASE be patient.  We're most likely asleep.

5. Thank you for being civil thus far, and being mindful of not crossing lines that aren't necessary.  

Jeni

Quote - The problem is that "on the fly" subD doesn't equal a high(er) rez mesh. CC SubD (As well as Posers polygon smoothing) can smooth a mesh.

But they can't add mesh detail.

To add mesh detail to a low res mesh, you need displacement maps. Which introduce their own sets of problems.

Catmull Clark SubD is a "nice to have" feature, but definitely NOT a proper replacement for what can be done with a "proper" high res figure.

Even games these days have no problems any more with higher res meshes, so turning back the wheel to the Dork and Posette days with ~20.000 polygon meshes really doesn't make any sense.

If your machine can run Poser 9 or PP 2012 (Because that is needed for Genesis anyway), a high res version of Genesis will have zero impact on it's performance.

Too many polygons are bad.

But too few are even worse.

^very well said.

personally i have no issue with the resolution of the poser meshes we have now. there is enough detail for morphing, and more detail can be added with displacement maps. proper mesh flow and density is far more important than overall polycount.  we need to stop making figures with 20k poly vaginas and put those polys where they can actually make a difference such as around the eyes and mouth. i could morph Quato out of the vaginas of some of the figures that are out now.

while sub-D would certainly be a nice feature to have to add to our bag of tricks,  its certainly not the 'holy grail' its being made out to be.  people tend to clamour for features they think they need, all the while overlooking what they already have. 
where sub-D would be most useful is in the cloth room and not on figures themselves.  i am sure we will see sub-D in an upcoming version of poser, as for now i am glad SM decided to go the IDL and SSS route. 

"we need to stop making figures with high resolution vaginas and put those polys where they can actually make a difference such as around the eyes and mouth. i could morph Quato out of the vaginas of some of the figures that are out now."

So a 10k poly vagina with 50 "normal" morphs and a futanari morph for those types of images is a bad idea?

Seriously though, what's wrong with having two versions of a figure that share maps?  You either have to smooth something out or reduce its polys anyways. 

""Even games these days have no problems any more with higher res meshes"**

I am not a gamer but those Game characters are still SINGLE mesh rigs with all kinds of baked in lighting&occlusion and other Game engine optimizations"

Games have extra constraints... like being able to do a dozen things at once in real time.  Poser and DS can take 5 minutes (Or overnight) to render everything properly.  Games needs at least 30fps or people will start getting mad.  Some want 60 FPS with settings maxxed out. 

Quote - *"we need to stop making figures with high resolution vaginas and put those polys where they can actually make a difference such as around the eyes and mouth. i could morph Quato out of the vaginas of some of the figures that are out now."*So a 10k poly vagina with 50 "normal" morphs and a futanari morph for those types of images is a bad idea?

ah jesus man, i had to google that and it made me spit scotch out of my nose. it burns :(

Quote - Games have extra constraints... like being able to do a dozen things at once in real time.  Poser and DS can take 5 minutes (Or overnight) to render everything properly.  Games needs at least 30fps or people will start getting mad.  Some want 60 FPS with settings maxxed out. 

i turn green and puke my guts out at 30 fps.

speaking of games.. why is it that a geforce could render hair like this in real time at acceptable framerates back in 2008 - INCLUDING DYNAMICS - and now its 2012 and i still cant get hair like this in my runtime? screw 60fps, id be happy if it was 1 frame per hour. just get me real hair :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEddrY0fA4Q

@Blackhearted

Damn, I want hair like that too in my runtime!

Quote - speaking of games.. why is it that a geforce could render hair like this in real time at acceptable framerates back in 2008 - INCLUDING DYNAMICS - and now its 2012 and i still cant get hair like this in my runtime? screw 60fps, id be happy if it was 1 frame per hour. just get me real hair :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEddrY0fA4Q

With you on that one! Wow and that was 3 years ago. What is computing years to human years?

Does anybody have any information about this Jim Thornton? On Linkedin I found a few items about a manager of some obscure IT outfits in Utah and nothing else.

Attached Link: GOOD dynamic hair image in gallery

Apparently, PP2012 has really GOOD, fast rendering dynamic hair.  I don't know how it animates, I haven't seen carodan animate hair, but it renders MUCH better than it ever did before, IMHO.  Here's the thread, he's got some of his shader settings in there, too.  

Interesting, why was this posted here and not in the Studio section?

I can undersatand in one way why this was done, as they still make Poser content.

All the best.

LROG

(I was just reading through the thread.  Looks like you found it, like, 10 days ago. Um, yeah. Disregard, it's 5:45am here.)

Now wouldn't it be good business sense, to make the Prime membeship back to it's intro offer to get people taking it up.

Just a thought!!!

All the best.

LROG

I'm guessing it's here simply because wolf359 frequents this forum more.

Not even a mention in the Studio forum, not exactly a lot going on there.

All the best.

LROG

This is THE most active public forum on the site, period.  It's fairly active, especially when compared to forums like Blender or Terragen.  To compare this forum to any other, they will always be less active.

Well, judging from the last few months, THIS was Renderosity DAZ forum... a place in which mentions to Poser was an OT :sneaky:.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration ;)  Considering there are a whole 3 posts on the front page that are mainly to do with DAZ, and they're mostly about the COMPANY, not the software.

I, for my part, do hope that SM will deliver Catmull-Clark soon. Not just to use Genesis, she looks quite good for me with Poser's subdivision by the way, but for stuff like clothing and other  hi-res stuff.

A "hi-res"-version of Genesis would not make much sense anyway if it's just the same mesh with subdivision. DAZ will make the morphs and weight maps  just for the low-res variant,  redoing them for a high-res version is probably a lot of work they would like to avoid.

Of course CC subdivision would be possible with a Python script before rendering, but that would not be the optimal way to go. A REYES renderer like Firefly should be able to do the subdivision when needed. If I'm not mistaken that's what Pixar created REYES for.

That hair demo was 2010 and was showcasing the newly launched nVidia GT400 series cards with ther new DirectX 11...

...and ironically, making extensive use of the new GPU based SUBDIVISION! :biggrin:

New management at DAZ?
Got some advice for you;

1. Get rid of those installers; I decide what goes where on my PC. Got it?

2. Get rid of Genesis; Build a woman.

3. Before doing stupid (or smart) things, consult with your customers.

4. Want to make money?
   Open your eyes and ears, and start to See and Listen.

Quote - 4. Want to make money?
Open your eyes and ears, and start to See and Listen.

Excellent advice!

It might be purtenent to wonder why all your previous best customers are now shopping elsewhere too. :)

"Interesting, why was this posted here and not in the Studio section?

I can undersatand in one way why this was done, as they still make Poser content.

All the best."

The title did say "OT" (off topic) so that is always a good indicator that  the subject may not be directly related  to poser .
Like the ,tell us a joke, thread thats going on here.

Additionally There is a new release of the DS to POSER CR2 Exporter and the official Statement that while users will get a less cumbersome export process and more "clothing support"
in the end you will still be stuck with a "sims" game resolution V5/Genesis in poser.

This is poser related news to those who were waiting for a Miracle or even gambled and actually spent money on the new V-chick expecting to get a full res version soon in poser from the exporter.....not happening.

Cheers

Quote - That hair demo was 2010 and was showcasing the newly launched nVidia GT400 series cards with ther new DirectX 11...

...and ironically, making extensive use of the new GPU based SUBDIVISION! :biggrin:

Guess what, hairs in Poser aren't mesh. If you export them, they are just lines. IMHO Firefly generates the nessesary geometry at render time, there are no poly which could be subdivided. And last time as I rendered Hair without Ray Tracing, the hairs were really quick to render. There is a reason why Pixar did not use Ray Tracing until they really needed to ("Cars").

It might be purtenent to wonder why all your previous best customers are now shopping elsewhere too. :)"

And the Data to support this assertion is where exactly??

Cheers

I know quite a few that no longer buy anything at all from DAZ. Those are the same peolpe that used to spend quite a lot, including myself.

These are now the same peole who are reaping Render Rewards here at Renderosity.

Quite a lot of PC members will be not be renewing, so as I said, this is a good time for Renderosiry to bring out the original Prime membership promo price and get those customers.

All the best.

LROG

Right, but you can't guarantee that, as customers, you haven't been replaced by a margin of 2 to 1 or more.  Or that their sales figures even went down.  All you have is anecdotal evidence.  So, to say that you KNOW, empirically, that this is fact, can't be proven.  So, it's best to leave conjecture out of discussions like this.

"All you have is anecdotal evidence.  So, to say that you KNOW, empirically, that this is fact, can't be proven.  So, it's best to leave conjecture out of discussions like this."

^This^

Cheers

Quote - Additionally There is a new release of the DS to POSER CR2 Exporter and the official Statement that while users will get a less cumbersome export process and more "clothing support"
in the end you will still be stuck with a "sims" game resolution V5/Genesis in poser.

This is poser related news to those who were waiting for a Miracle or even gambled and actually spent money on the new V-chick expecting to get a full res version soon in poser from the exporter.....not happening.

Studio users use the same "sims" game resolution V5/Genesis figure. It's just the fact that Poser uses a different kind of subdivision which generates differences here. Poser users aren't limited to the low res mesh, Posers subdivision does work - you just won't get exactly the same look as in Studio. The differences aren't that obvious from what I've seen up to now, but I assume it will be visible somewhere. There could be issues with conforming clothes, or with certain morphs.

As a business isn't it normal that you try to take out the competition, not try to prop it up.

Renderosity should do what any otehr business would do at this point and take advantage of the situation.

All the best.

LROG

I'm not on the business side of the site, but I do know that if DAZ fails, we're not far behind.  In this case, it'd be more prudent for us to try to build them up, rather than watch them fall.

The Prime items were are a fantastic idea. Well done to Renderosity for seeing an opportunity and jumping on it! :thumbupboth:

And the Data to support this assertion is where exactly??

And your data to the contrary is where exactly??**
**

Content makers will always find new stores to sell, and those that do freebies have always got their own at ShareCG etc.

All the best.

LROG

Antecdotal evidence can be factual evidence; it just needs to be scrutinized more carefully. 

However, too many antecdotes will likely lead us from the Topic into the realm of Conjecture, where Jen has forbidden us to tread...

No, it's because conjecture can quickly turn to libel, which can get our site in LEGAL trouble.  

If you don't have ACTUAL proof, numbers and figures, let's not bring it to this site to discuss.  Want to discuss it on your own blog/forum/site?  Great.  It's not welcome here.

Well, I do know of at least 10 people who were spending $100+ per month and now spend nothing at DAZ.

So, that's a minimum of $1,000 per month.

Not a lot maybe, but in the current climate, everyone is clammering for everything they can get.

All the best.

LROG

Anecdotal "evidence" isn't evidence, there is no way to prove them.

Please stop this speculations, this is exactly what we don't want here.

"And your data to the contrary is where exactly??"

Gratuitous assertions do not require contrary Data
the one making the assertions must provide the proof or it will/should be summarily Dismissed as an "opinion" at best.
hope this helps.

Cheers

Paganeagle, please understand that this kind of discussion isn't welcome here.

This went far enough. No further discussions about how much DAZ may or may have not earned. I would not like to close the thread just because of this kind of speculation. 

Right, but as I stated above, you don't know for sure that those 10+ customers were not replaced with other new customers that aren't even AWARE of the forums there.  We have customers here that don't know there are forums here until you point them out to them.  It's not unheard of.  Again, you're not showing me proof that they're on a downward spiral.

I really hate to sound so snippy, but people think that one person spending $100 or more is a boon to a company.  If 10 people spend $1000 per month, on top of paying the PA's, you haven't even paid the salary of one employee for 2 weeks.  DAZ has quite a few employees, and have hired more in the past few months.  So, losing 10 customers that may or may not have been replaced has probably not been felt on their bottom line.

Here's a for instance.  In my house, we don't purchase/use Nestle products or any chocolates or coffees that aren't guaranteed to be Fair Trade.  Nestle due to their pushing of artificial infant formulas on new mothers in 3rd world countries, and Fair Trade chocolates because I am slowly working all products out of my life that are borne on slavery.  I HIGHLY doubt that Nestle, Hershey, or Mars are feeling the bite because I and several people I know refuse to use their products.  But, I know I feel much better about where my money goes since we don't buy those products.  

What has Nestle got to do with this thread?

All the best.

LROG

Quote - 3. Before doing stupid (or smart) things, consult with your customers.

1. Want to make money?
   Open your eyes and ears, and start to See and Listen.

That would be unprecedented in the world of Business.