Hey All Yes im a new poser user learning as i go..so thank you in advance for the help.

i found poser in a comp i bought at a teck auction.such a sweet program.

My first question.it came with a lode of DLC (BUT) 60% of said content has no preview icon in the library wair in my runtime/content do i put previews

#2 why does 30% of content i install using poser content tap find its way to the pose content when its not a pose?...(ie) mats ,skins,eyes,

thats all i have for now im sure as i dig into poser i will have more NOOB Questions.

thanks for haveing me in your forms im looking forward to posting some of my work and get some feed back...chat u soon

KAI

My suggestion is to extract whatever you are using, into a folder on the desktop. Study the folders that each file goes into. This way you learn the way the file structure of poser works. Then just copy into your runtime and you will know where each item can be located. Get different items to test like clothing, poses, materials and props. They all save in different folders. Once you understand why, you'll have no problems with future content.

What version of Poser?

Check your previews that are not showing, if they are rsr files convert them to png. Search google if you do not know how.

Poser pose directory contains MAT Poses, Morph injections and other pose files. MAT Poses have been replaced with Material Collections since Poser 6, but many users are too lazy or prefer to still clutter the pose directory with MAT Poses. You can change them with little effort to Material Collections and move them. Here is a product that does it for you http://www.contentparadise.com/productDetails.aspx?id=19651

Also DAZ Studio until Version 4 refused to see the Materials folder in Poser runtimes.

Again GIYF (Google is your friend)

Cheers
Randy

pro 2012...........

Just because you purchased ths system at auction does not make you the legal owner of the application and most especially any third party content on the system.

SMS will not allow you to update or offer you support as the license and serial were purchased by someone else.

If there is content such as the V4, M4 or any of the DAZ models or content, DAZ will not recognize you as the legal owner.  Same holds true for vendors here at RMP and RDNA.

The only way you will have legal ownership is to purchase the app from SMS and purchase the content that was not part of the Poser install.

It's a good idea to read the EULA for Poser and the EULA's for any content that comes from DAZ, RMP, and/or RDNA.

Best thing to do would be to format the hard drive and install a fresh copy of Windows on it.

At least that way, you'll be assured everything that is purchased and installed from that point on, is licensed to you.

Back in the days of Poser 4, users discovered the hack of mat poses and mor poses. 

Before mat poses, you had to manually apply textures to each and every surface.  To apply morphs, was more complicated.

Eventually, the hack became a standard.  Once Poser 6 introduced the mc6 or material collection that will apply a collection of material settings all at once in the material room, Poser vendors began to use them.  However, since DS cannot read the mc6, vendors who want to sell to DS users create mat poses.

3 things.

1. what icprncss2 said.

2. Poser Pro 2012 is too new to be sitting around on a computer at auction.

3. No one who buys the program would say "sweet" or "NOOB".

Quote - 3 things.

1. what icprncss2 said.

2. Poser Pro 2012 is too new to be sitting around on a computer at auction.

3. No one who buys the program would say "sweet" or "NOOB".

  :lol:  

For 1 I bought the comp from a estate auction its a I5 thats pretty new

 i have ALL the packing/coads and disks for all soft wair that came with it.

So the way i see it. it was bought from a softwair dealer who happoned to meat a untimely demise so in a sence i bought the softwair.

AND i hope thats not the way you great the new users of this forum. So very RUDE!!!!!

Even if what you say is true...there is no way to legally transfer downloadable content like DAZ's Poser stuff.  They don't allow you to resell it. 

New users aren't rudely greeted here, but pirates always are.

I'm sorry for the tone of the forum members, Kaihean: I'm sure you bought the computer and all the software in good faith. This happens a lot: I see computers sold with Microsoft Office and what-have-you included where neither (possibly) the seller nor the buyer realise that the terms of the EULA stipulate no licence is transferrable.

What you do from here on out is really up to you, Kaihean. I really don't think anyone has the right to judge you since I'm convinced you acted in good faith. What you decide to do with this information is important, however.

It's an unfortunate fact of life that very few people understand the basics of software licencing. Ignorance is not exoneration (certainly not in the eyes of the law) but it also shouldn't expose that individual to abuse when all excited about his new acquisition, he's ready to dig in and start learning.

Makes everyone here who has levied judgment on him appear a bit ... :glare:

Just as a side-note: wonder how many over at CG Society actually Puchased their copy of 3DSMax or Maya or... :blink:

Again, doesn't make it right. If this person had been a true pirate, he would have kept quiet about his mode of acquiring the software, don't you think?

Go ahead: flame me if you want, but you'll have to agree that computer purchase with softare included happens a lot.

Quote -   If this person had been a true pirate, he would have kept quiet about his mode of acquiring the software, don't you think?

Not necessarily. Someone ignorant of copyright law might think the "I bought a computer that came with software" excuse is legit.

And I think the tone is because people don't believe the story.  A used computer with PoserPro 2012 included?  It just came out a couple of months ago. 

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt... :blink: ...gets me in a lot of trouble...

What RobynsVeil said. :)

My comments were not meant to be mean.

BTW You can get Poser Debut free if you can download a 2.2GB file.

http://store.smithmicro.com/productDetails.aspx?id=20136

Cheers
Randy

Quote - Best thing to do would be to format the hard drive and install a fresh copy of Windows on it. At least that way, you'll be assured everything that is purchased and installed from that point on, is licensed to you.

BTW, I agree with BR completely on this... but only because I do know about licencing and all that. To the unwary: DON'T buy a PC where the buyer says: "Comes with..." You're buying hardware. that's it. The rest is not the seller's to sell.

Even if the buyer is dead, that licence can't be transfered to the living. It's licenced to him (or her). Be sure to spend a bit of time reading EULAs... and then, tell your friends!

Quote - For 1 I bought the comp from a estate auction its a I5 thats pretty new  i have ALL the packing/coads and disks for all soft wair that came with it.

So the way i see it. it was bought from a softwair dealer who happoned to meat a untimely demise so in a sence i bought the softwair.

No, actually you didn't buy the software. One doesn't (generally speaking, unless you're a software company buying out another) buy software: one buys a licence to use the software. And that licence is never transferrable via sale/purchase of hardware it is installed on. This includes Windows, IIUC. Ignorance - as I said - doesn't exonerate you... read what people here have said as valuable information to live by and pass on to your friends.

You might think people here were rude. Others would have dobbed you in for piracy. I prefer rudeness.

I appreciate your ability to give Kaihean the benefit of the doubt Robynsveil.... I didn't use to be so jaded.

I've been around a long time. I use Carrara 8 Pro, DS4 and Poser Pro 2012 (which I was finally able to afford). I do not think I'm just a bitter old fart... though others might be in a better position to decide that for themselves.

I use Carrara  because that's what I can afford. I don't use Photoshop (I use Gimp), Max, Maya, C4D (though I do play with it on a friend's computer with his legal copy). Modo, Lightwave, or anything High Dollar. Why? Because I'm a Hobbyist and it would be a bit much for me to "Own" Thousands of dollars worth of software.... anyone of which would take me 112 years to learn.

I've spent a LOT of time around Pirates (I worked with a bunch) and they are typically pretty easilly spotted. Kaihean is very young, uses the vernacular, spelling, and grammatical style of Pirates and Script Kiddies, asks odd questions for someone with a legally installed copy of a software program....... and has the typical installation of an illegally obtained software program.

I'm not one of those people that thinks every 14 year old with a copy of Maya represents a loss of a grand or whatever for the  huge Publisher.... as most of the Pirates of any software are never going to use it for much of anything anyway. I DO hate Pirated copies of stuff Like Crossdresser, or Models when it represents a lot of work offered at minimal cost by a small group (or one) person(s).

Now.... I could be wrong. But I'll stand by what I said until someone can convince me otherwise.

I do agree with you, Mac. Which is why I added what I did. Like I said: ignorance does not exonerate. I used GIMP until I could afford CS3 (when CS5 was out, got shrink-wrapped legal copy that Adobe accepted as such when i sent in for the licence registration). All the software I have is legal as well, including a separate copy of Win 7 for each PC. And I use Blender because I can't afford modo.

For me, it's an ethical thing. I really think that high-priced software - too high for the common man to even consider - tends to encourage piracy.

But to not pay for like PFE or content made by people on here is pathetic. C'mon: it's $26 bucks, for cryin' out loud. And most content is less than that. In this case, you really are hurting other artists. Is any art worth that?

Yeah.. happened to me way backa round poser 6 ish... thats how I got started in 3d.  A friend basically gave me a Rig and told me to check out this program...

It was a bit of a painfull process purging all the runtimes once I realised how things work with content creators vendors etc.  Made worse by the fact that I bough and installed a bunch of stuff before I started trying to purge.. plus freebies.. oh so many freebies... Sometimes I still go looking to see if I have this product that I remember using once... oh thats right... not mine shoot :(  and a lot of the time not available anymore.

Its tough to kiss goodbye a lot of content but when you consider that the people making the content are just ordinary folk and not 'some big company'  Its not hard to see the right thing to do

Quote - Just as a side-note: wonder how many over at CG Society actually Puchased their copy of 3DSMax or Maya or... :blink:

Again, doesn't make it right. If this person had been a true pirate, he would have kept quiet about his mode of acquiring the software, don't you think?

Go ahead: flame me if you want, but you'll have to agree that computer purchase with softare included happens a lot.

My statements were not meant to be rude but to help the OP understand the lay of the land.

Better the OP learn now how things work.  Simple as that.

Which making free stuff so great! I am a vendor on here and do sell products and even though I don't depend on this as an income, I know at least somewhat what it's like to pour heart and soul and spirit into your product and then offer it for !really! so little and still see it turn up on a Warez site (friends alerted me to this: I don't frequent warez sites, in case you're wondering :blink:). It's gut-wrenching. I can't really describe adequately how it made me feel. It was enough to put me off selling anything.

But it also made me respect all the more highly those who do continue to make content and software for us in the face of that. I took the chicken way out. I'm making stuff that's free. I don't think I can take that sort of horror again.

So, please respect the content makers here, Kaihean (if you're still reading this). They aren't corporations: they are people like you and me. And you using their work hurts them... it really does!

This is an interesting read!  ;-)

Welcome to the world of 3d.  Some of the most interesting forums, and forumee's (?) that you will ever meet!  LOL!  You are joining at a very unstable (but exciting) time in this arena!

That's a cool to get an I5 at an estate sale!  I never even thought to look for computers, I always look for antiques and old stuff.

Poser 2012 offers a free 30 day trial.  Another option that could probably save a lot of time and trouble just seeing if you like this type of software by trying it for 30 days, and then, buy or delete.  You are sticking real close to the intent of the law then, and getting a little bonus by not having to download/install/hold your credit card hostage, etc. 

It will be hard to buy/delete when the time comes, but you'll be doing the right thing.  :)  A free piece of software, ain't worth a persons integrity.

In the meantime, doco and google are good, and there are 3 forums that are good help!  RDNA, here and Daz.  All 3 would give you good assitance with Poser, though this one and the RDNA are more Poser focused.  Daz has gotten a little dicey with the Poser followers lately...but it should iron out sometime, as SM and Daz seem to be working together.  There was even a way to get DS3 Advanced free at one point, and may still be a possible find. (though doco for DS is awful...)

Have fun!

Quote - My statements were not meant to be rude but to help the OP understand the lay of the land.

Better the OP learn now how things work.  Simple as that.

In retrospect I should have said: "please excuse the apparent rude tone..." no one was being deliberately rude, but were certainly operating from the same sentiment I am: protecting our own.

Can't help but wonder: do other sites tacitly condone software piracy by never addressing this with new members? you know, the "don't ask, don't tell" approach? or am I opening a can of worms?

BTW, I'm not condoning software piracy at any level... corporations price their software at corporate pricing levels for a reason, I guess. Personally, I simply won't use software that costs too much for my budget: there are much less expensive alternatives - sometimes even free! All software I have on my system is either no-cost (like Blender, which foundation I do donate to) or paid-for, licenced-to-me versions.

Same for content... particularly so!

I've only been a vendor for a year, and a modeler for 18 months, so I'm still fortunate enough to not have any of my products on warez sites.

Many people don't realize the time it take to make any given product. From the modeling stage, to UV mapping, then you have texturing. That is the least abount of work involved in any poser prop/figure. IF it's a figure, you get to add rigging (and now weight mapping) your figure. And there's morphs, etc...

After all that, it gets sold for $10-$20(if it's REALLY good), and we hope mass sales will make up for the time spent. That would be nice if we could predict what sells, and what's going to be a big flop.

The least amount of time I've spent on one of my products was 1 week, and that was because I was having so much fun making it, I worked on it constantly, every day (see my Aubrey II figure ;o)

When I worked, remodeling houses, I made roughly $500-$800 a week, depending on the jobs. So, in theory, I should try and make that much from that model. The trick is, finding that 'perfect' price to charge.

It's a tough market, without the threat of piracy hovering over you constantly.

Quote - Again, doesn't make it right. If this person had been a true pirate, he would have kept quiet about his mode of acquiring the software, don't you think?

I agree, you also must take into consideration that Poser has problems and is not working properly. Any pirate can download any software that is working and without any problem

[quote

Can't help but wonder: do other sites tacitly condone software piracy by never addressing this with new members? you know, the "don't ask, don't tell" approach? or am I opening a can of worms?

Yes, yes, and probably yes. There is one site and one "contributor" that constantly puts up vehicle models I've bought. De-rigged Poser Models he passes off as his own. He even puts his name on the license plates of the cars. I have no idea where he gets them all or even why he de-rigs them.... he averages about 10 a week.. and obviously I don't own every model he posts... but I have enough of them to know that the copywrite holder of the de-rigged model  is getting the shaft.

I just found the Digimation_ModelBank, VanishingPoint Otter out there... I'm going to buy it next week with my gift certificate Christmas Present present to myself.

Color me annoyed.

Quote - Just as a side-note: wonder how many over at CG Society actually Puchased their copy of 3DSMax or Maya or... :blink:

Again, doesn't make it right. If this person had been a true pirate, he would have kept quiet about his mode of acquiring the software, don't you think?

Go ahead: flame me if you want, but you'll have to agree that computer purchase with softare included happens a lot.

You would be surprised ;) 

Des. is helping out in a CG forum for 3DS Max.

Give modeling tips technical etc..   well sometimes he get so angry that he just shut down his browser.

The people come with the newest Max, Maya, Adobe and Plug ins in his Forum and ask for tips. Honestly when you count together, there comes an amont in € together you just sit there and :scared:

You can not tell me this all legal...:blink:

Much as I've expressed my concern for the vendors/content makers on here and elsewhere I have to admit that my concern extends to the developers of Poser as well. When I look at this product and all the hard work that's gone into making it what it is, I begrudge not one single penny of what I paid. One day, I will afford modo. That is the next step up. For the longest time I stayed with P7. It's what I could afford. Yes, PP was ever so appealing but I couldn't afford it. And I couldn't see myself facing this community (or look myself in the face) with greyware software. I doubt our young OP is going to be back but if he does read this: start small. P7 is only $40 at tiger software. You'll have the peace of mind knowing you're doing the right thing. And the support you can get in this group is amazing. Well worth doing it right.

Piracy is becoming a very serious issue. It is not a question of money, it is turning into an ideology or already it is.

When a new software is released, many times a very expensive software, it is very soon available. From where did come this software? Someone had to purchase it first, someone that had the money, have purchased it and then put to share. To crack a software is not difficult, but even so it requires some effort and time and the person that do it did not get any profit doing it because is released for free.

I have seen full 80 GB BlueRay rips, imagine uploading 80 GigaBytes!!! Someone must have to purchase the BlueRay, rip it, have a very fast internet conection, pay a hosting site and spend one day or more uploading it and the person get no money for his effort, even he/she/it had to spend money to do this.

Once uploaded it reproduces and spreads, but even the matrix is for free the reproduction process requires effort, time and money. You have to download the matrix, upload it at several sites and every time is removed from the site due copyrights, you have to upload it again. Time, internet bandwidth, efforts and you get no money doing this.

As I said before, it is not a question of money, it is a question of ideology. Every day more and more people are revolted against copyright laws, patents and the exhorbitant profits of the companies. I know of musiciand, once very famous, that didn't get a single cent for his work, all the copyright money goes to the recording comapny and nothing to the artist. Even I, am revolted by this subversion of copyright laws that protect nothing the artists, the real creators;

Quote - Much as I've expressed my concern for the vendors/content makers on here and elsewhere I have to admit that my concern extends to the developers of Poser as well. When I look at this product and all the hard work that's gone into making it what it is, I begrudge not one single penny of what I paid. One day, I will afford modo. That is the next step up. For the longest time I stayed with P7. It's what I could afford. Yes, PP was ever so appealing but I couldn't afford it. And I couldn't see myself facing this community (or look myself in the face) with greyware software. I doubt our young OP is going to be back but if he does read this: start small. P7 is only $40 at tiger software. You'll have the peace of mind knowing you're doing the right thing. And the support you can get in this group is amazing. Well worth doing it right.

:thumbupboth: 

Couldn't agree more. 

The first time when I see our Product's on a fileshare server...honestly, I was shocked.

Hurted. Yes, like Robinsveil said, It hurts.

Our Cloitre as example, we put more than 3 Months work in it. Just the modelling and texturing.

Without the rest, like researching, buy textures together, work out the concept etc...

See this building on a filesharing site is like your stuff is on a flea market . It hurts really.

Ideologie? I have no clue. But I think it is more. I know that many filesharing sites make a lot of profits with advertising etc..so for the owner not a big deal to buy stuff and upload it. And take after money for "High speed download" and other crap.

I don't think anyone here was rude to the OP; if you disagree I respectfully suggest you have led a very sheltered life.  Suspicious and mickey taking yes but nothing I'd say was outright rudeness.

In any event, the fact remains the software the OP obtained is not legitimate for use.  Nothing to say he/she can't contact SM and the relevant other parties to get fixed up with legal stuff.  It's the only way to go.

I don't use anything I haven't obtained legally; as a sometime vendor it's more trouble than it's worth to use hookey stuff, not to mention it'd be a stab in the back to fellow artists and vendors.

My only comment is that tarring someone based on the language they use really seems a bit much. Reach conclusions based on the other factors if you will, but throwing in the equivalent of 'boy, you don't sound like you're from around here,' is kinda gratituitous IMO - profile away.

 Kaihean, I don't know what they would say but it can't hurt to email or call Smith Micro with the serial number & if possible the name of the former owner and explain the situation.  Maybe they'll cut you a deal or maybe they'll tell you to p___ up a rope - nothing ventured, nothing gained :-) 

Quote - Ideologie? I have no clue. But I think it is more. I know that many filesharing sites make a lot of profits with advertising etc..so for the owner not a big deal to buy stuff and upload it. And take after money for "High speed download" and other crap.

Filesharing sites are other part of the equation, they don't care of copyrights or copyrights laws do not exist for them. They only want to make money. When a war exists are the weapon makers/traders that make a lot of money while the parts are killing one each other

Quote - See this building on a filesharing site is like your stuff is on a flea market . It hurts really.

Is not so tragic, people that download will not buy from you, so it makes no difference in your income. What is tragic is to have few sales of a product and many times you spend so many days doing it

kawecki, no it is not the money I talk about. I know those people who grab our stuff for free, would never buy one polygone from us.

It is more to see hard work make worthless in this kind of sites.

Quote - It is more to see hard work make worthless in this kind of sites.

If you worked on something it was because you wanted to do it, enjoyed doing it and you had satisfaction and are happy with the results you achieved. The value of your work doesn't change if someone updloaded it or not. Someone can say that your work is a crap, does it means that your work has no value? Or someone can say that your work is the most marvelous thing, does it mean that your work is so extraordinary divinity?

Quote - > Quote - It is more to see hard work make worthless in this kind of sites.

If you worked on something it was because you wanted to do it, enjoyed doing it and you had satisfaction and are happy with the results you achieved. The value of your work doesn't change if someone updloaded it or not. Someone can say that your work is a crap, does it means that your work has no value? Or someone can say that your work is the most marvelous thing, does it mean that your work is so extraordinary divinity?

LOl, no of course not.

I can not exactly explain what I mean. Sorry my english is not that good.

It is simply when people don't care about how much passion you put in a work. They steal and even more worst, they rate the stolen work. ( Hope you understand me a bit what I mean) :)

Quote - It is simply when people don't care about how much passion you put in a work.

But people don't care on you. You can have a small group that loves you, other small group hates you and the most of people don't care about you and even don't know that you exist. If one day a train passes over me there will be a lot of people looking around, commenting, making jokes, telling stories and someone can say, "look where a leg has gone" and other will reply "Wow!!"

I can't comment on the OPs situation, but I agree that all the piracy is very damaging and very wrong. Sadly it seems more and more people are basically stealing and think nothing of it.

We had riots here in the UK earlier in the year and people were smashing shop windows and helping themselves to anything they could carry. I can't help thinking that all the piracy of films, music, software, etc puts into peoples minds that it's ok to steal, so long as you don't get caught. ;-(

I suppose there have always been outlaws/pirates going back centuries but the romatic view that these are all Robin Hoods, good, honest people stealing from the rich and giving to the poor to fight injustice, is about as far from the truth as you can get.

Two plagues created in the XIX century, Capitalism and Communism, have destroyed and corrupted the society turning people into savage animals worshiping the only one god: Money. Money is all the most important thing and the only thing that these "animals" must care.

Capitalism only wants to take your money and all you have, Communism only wants to take your money and all you have and you stupid slave you must work, accumulate money and give all you have to them. Nothing else matters, human values are only past history.

Kawecki, did human ever had a value? When I look at our whole history, i have daubts.

This thread has been a good read for me and I am plesantly surprise to find that I am not alone after all.   Ever since I started using computers I have purchased all of my software and today every program I have was purchased or free because the creator deemed that it should be.  Worrying part of this though is I was beginning to think I was unique as pirating appears to have become the norm.  Some people have become upset with me in the past because I would not give them a copy of a program or a CD/DVD.

As for pirates trying to justify their actions on the high cost of software, well I still cannot believe what Poser Pro 2012 can do considering the program cost me around £90 in the UK thanks to an early adopter special price.  I have purchased every update since Poser 6 and went to 8 and then Pro 2010 for the 64 bit processing.  I do not regreat any one of the purchases as I felt they were great value for money considering the complexity, let alone the fun I have had over the years.  The cost of the items here at Rendo are also unbelieveable considering I am paying $10 - $20 for most for something that I could not create myself even if I had the many hours it would take to create.

I know many of the pirates would not have paid for a product so no revenue is lost but this is not the point.  My dis-like of pirates (I make no assumption of such for the OP of this thread) is not the money they save but the fact that it deters some very skilled people from creating anything.  That is a loss to the whole 3D community.  I admire the vendors that stuggle on and always support the work that I like with hard earned cash.  

Quote - As for pirates trying to justify their actions on the high cost of software, well I still cannot believe what Poser Pro 2012 can do considering the program cost me around £90 in the UK

As I said before, piracy goes beyond the monetary value. Poser is not expensive software that is worth its value and even it comes full of content. You cannot say that a music CD is something so expensive that only elected people can afford. Trying to understand or justivy piracy based on the absolute monetary value you will never be able to understand the scope of this problem.

For a simplified analysis you can divide the world in two: Capitalism and Communism. In Communism copyrights and intelectual property do not exist. In Capitalism a pirate is a criminal, in Communism depending on the case he can become a hero. The world is divided and people do not share the same values.

You cannot ignore Communism, there billions of people living in Communist countries or have been educated under a Communist regime. You cannot ignore the importance and influence of these people. China is the first real economical power and is becoming the second military power after Russia. Russia and the countries belonging to the former URSS, even not more Communists, its population was born and educated under a Commumist system.

It is a very simple analysis, because there are billions of people that don't belong to Communism or Capitalism, or flip-flop from one side to another and have other values.

Quote -
My only comment is that tarring someone based on the language they use really seems a bit much. Reach conclusions based on the other factors if you will, but throwing in the equivalent of 'boy, you don't sound like you're from around here,' is kinda gratituitous IMO - profile away.

I'll assume you are addressing me with this one. And I'm not basing my opinion on "Boy... you don't sound like you are from around here".

Maybe I'm jaded from working with a few hundred 16 to 28 year old "workers" over 4 years, talking to my colleagues (and accounting for the fact that English isn't everyone's native language here on the "intertubes").... but:

Unfortunately my comments based on spelling, vernacular, grammar et al ARE most often valid.

There is an entire Generation out there, most of whom (at least here in the USA) think Music is free, Movies/video are free etc. etc.

This group doesn't understand why companies don't want to pay them 80 grand to surf the web,  might have a problem with Pink and Green hair, 61 piercing's, teardrop tattoos, 2" ear gauges, or a gold bone in their nose.

They don't understand why any one of a thousand combinations of Spandex, flannel, Purple Light up sneakers, tee shirts, Army Boots, neon paisley clothing, trench coats, flip flops, jeans, tank tops advertising wee wee flavored American Beer, roller skates, skater duds, smelly leather wrist bands, hood ornaments on chains, dog collars, top hats, and neon tutus might not be welcome in the work place.

They are baffled, after years of being rewarded both for successes and for failures, why a company might not give them an "awe... you tried" or "thanks for showing up" trophy instead of holding them accountable for some colossal screw up. Most can't spell, use punctuation, construct grammatically correct sentences, or read anything but text speak. They list emoticons and texting as skill sets on their resumes.

The "dumb kid" in most of my classes growing up seems like a word smith or a literary genius by comparison.

It seems to be changing "a bit" with the current economy... but they feel that they don't have to work somewhere that doesn't give them "Thanks for showing up" awards and don't understand that the workplace may not be as "advanced" in it's thinking as they are.

It's not changing fast enough.  I'm really getting tired of writing the children up for dress code violations, confiscating cell phones, suspending them for inappropriate language and tardiness (not that any of them know what the word means although I did have one ask me why I was writing him up for watching Dr. Who).

Quote - They don't understand why any one of a thousand combinations of Spandex, flannel, Purple Light up sneakers, tee shirts, Army Boots, neon paisley clothing, trench coats, flip flops, jeans, tank tops advertising wee wee flavored American Beer, roller skates, skater duds, smelly leather wrist bands, hood ornaments on chains, dog collars, top hats, and neon tutus might not be welcome in the work place.

WoW!!, Now we can understand in real time how was the process of decadence and collapse of Rome

Sorry Mac. I'm sure your experience has led you to your methods. I mean no disrespect when I say that the same process is at work in police departments. Pretty soon, everyone who looks , talks, dresses or acts a certain way is automatically a bad guy. It's lazy and it breeds hostility among the very people they're supposed to be serving. If you really want to educate someone about piracy, it strikes me that calling them out is perhaps not the best first step, but YMMV.

I think a better example is PhilC. On several occasions, I've seen him deal with people here who he pretty much knew had ripped off his software by the questions they were asking. He is always the perfect gentleman (not saying you arent :-) He makes it obvious what is going on with openly being accusatory. The guy could probably slit your throat and you'ld never even know you were bleeding. But that's his way.

NB. I can only wish I were the age you might judge by my occasional use of dude, fanboi, pr0n and yes, I have to admit even sk8r once or twice. :-)

Heh Imkenzie...... bad news. The corporate world has been "profiling" for as long as the Police Depts... if not longer. So have you whether or not you want to admit it. Remember that hairy douchenozzle with the dirty tee shirt and the "Love Hate" tattoos on his knuckles last time you were at Wally World? Or that non hairy, clean suited, no ink douchenozzle in front of you?

I grew up in the "Save the whales, end the war, tye die, I'd love to teach the world to sing, feed the hungry" generation. I had long hair,  a beard, some ink, and an earing back when, if you weren't a Pirate, you damn well better be ready to defend yourself. I could get away with it because I owned half of the Business.

I'm not saying that being illiterate and wearing spandex wrapped around your fat, green haired, saggy man boobed fanny.... while playing "Batman Arkem City" or napping at your desk makes you a bad person..... but it does make you a lousy employee. And someone who would have gotten the fecal matter beat out of them everyday back in 1976.

I'm not really "profiling anyone"... I'm just telling you how it is in the real world. Most of my "Feed the World" Friends are now "I got mine, you get yours, lets bomb some brown people, I'm voting for Newtie because the TV told me to" types..... and with the exception of Google... you won't find many living wage jobs where "individuality" is encouraged. Unless it's the talent to make money for the company that you work for.

If you are Kat Von D, Mike Tyson or a Trust Fund kid... then go ahead and express your individuality. Otherwise.... you'll need a job. 

P.S. I'm 52 and have been calling other dudes "dude and bitch" since the early 70's. I've been on the Intertubes since 1981 and was actually around to see the invention of emoticons and the use of words like teh, pron, pwned.

It's kind of like the new car commercial with the cool start buttons and gear shifters in the dash... they started that in 1920 and stopped in the late 50's. What's old becomes new again.

"Up in here"..."(insert anything here) yo", and Snoop Dog's Hizzouse nonsense are new. For now.

For Shizzle my nizzle.

"fo shizzle ma nizzle" is a bastardization of "fo' sheezy mah neezy" which is a bastardization of "for sure mah nigga" which is a bastdardization of "I concur with you whole heartedly my African american brother"

If you concur whole heartedly.... you get a decent Job.