So totally new... I was playing around in the hair room and ran into a problem.  When doing long hair, the hair would go through my characters body/shoulders.  Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening?

TIA

collision settings?

I checked the check box and it didn't make a difference, hair still fell through the body.

you have to make sure "collision detection" is checked on for any parts of the body the hair can reach. That checkbox is on the properties pallet for all body parts.

Don't be shocked at how much longer it takes for your simulation to run. Collision is challenging.

::::: Opera :::::

Thanks Opera, I'll check after breakfast...

Are most hair styles created in the hair room?  Or are those sold (or freebies) at the Daz site and other sites, created using another method?  I'm not sure I like the hair room hair, it doesn't look quite as realistic as I would have hoped.

Update:  I guess I don't know where to change the collision detection on other body parts.  Because I select the body part, but it doesn't let me check the check box.  Can anyone let me know where I need to set the collision detection in the hair room so the hair doesn't fall through the body?

"... it doesn't let me check the check box"

do you mean the checkbox is not active, so you can't check it off?

Are you looking on the Parameter/Properties palette?

Quote - Are you looking on the Parameter/Properties palette?

No... should I be?

yes you should, that's what i said above......

"you have to make sure "collision detection" is checked on for any parts of the body the hair can reach. That checkbox is on the properties pallet for all body parts."

Parameters/properties pallet, check "collision detection"

Gotcha, I was checking the box under "Dynamics Controls" thinking that is what you meant.  Sorry for the confusion.

I found what you meant now, thank you!!

If the gravity is set too strong, it will override the collision settings and poke through.  also, it looks like you need to strengthen your root stiffness and bring the fall-off down.

Attached Link: Hair Room Victory

This is hair room.

william is correct, do not raise gravity past -.0003 if you are attempting collision

besides checking collision detection on the body part, you are also checking it in the hair room, right?

The gravity is .000300  :/

Quote - > Quote -   I'm not sure I like the hair room hair, it doesn't look quite as realistic as I would have hoped.

This is hair room.

 

Oh... well that is pretty darn realistic.  :)  Like!

OK I've played around for a bit and I'm getting some success and still some hairs going through the shoulders, arms and or ears.  I have all the collisions both on the parts and in the hair room checked on.  Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong?  I can do another picture if need be... but I think that since I'm getting some success it has to do with my settings?

I think you will find that it's never going to be perfect.  I suspect the problem lies within V4 (or other Gen4 Meshes) being too hi-res for the simulator. 

The fact that SR1 improved on the simulator gives us HR people a reason to hope that they're still working on it. 

Remember, the current feeling amongst HR types is that the simulator is only for animation, not for hair styling or stills.  If you learn the styling tools you won't need the sim for stills. 

I am eager to see all renders you can post showing your development in this area. 

My tests confirm...a lower-res collision object works much better for simulations.  I'm guessing the sim goes from strand vertice to object poly, so the bigger your polys the less likely you are to have a hair go through a vertice, perhaps.

I've made a gimp suit for V4 in clo3d and kept it low poly and am using this as a stand in for hair creation/simulation.

If you're only doing stills, you don't need to add frames...it just gives more time for the sim to become confused.  Just let it drape.

Quote - If you're only doing stills, you don't need to add frames...it just gives more time for the sim to become confused.  Just let it drape.

Yeah just stills... but doing the dynamics get's the hair to fall nicely (in most cases).  Are you saying with the styling tools this could be an unneeded step for me since I am doing stills?!

Oh and out of curiousity, can I ask how many growth groups you have in that image posted?  Looks great!

And also, since I am doing stills and post work in PS, I know I can fixup those weird little hairs in the ears and into the shoulder, but I'd like to avoid that as much as possible and get it as good as I possibly can to start!

Nice one!

Caring enough, as you did, to make strand hair cast shadows is the sigh of a true HR hero.

::::: Opera :::::

You can use sim for stills, but be ready for frustration.  The above image was the result of using sim on the hair for that extra gravity-realism.  My skullcap has 5 groups...could probably get away with 4 though.  The more groups you have, the easier it is to use styling tools.  On the other hand, the more groups you have, the harder it is to sim it all, because each group requires a sim. 

Hope that makes sense.

It does, thank you so much for your help.  Now if only I could get Poser to stop crashing on me and me losing my work.

New question!  Sometimes when I'm editing the growth group it selects parts in the eyes and nostrils when I work on the sides or back of the head... is there anyway to prevent this from happening?  Hate taking my time to pick the spots I want then grow the guide hairs and see hair sprout from the eye balls.

Typically we don't work directly on the model's head.  It's too high poly, for one thing, and what we usually do is use a skullcap.  You will not have spazzy problems with the group editor if you go that route.  You probably don't want much more than 30 polygons on your skullcap.  It would be overkill.

Some things I have learned (mostly from the forums here).

-Short hair is a great starting point to learn from.  The longer the hair, the more 'complicated' things can get.

-Use the style tools.  Sometimes with shorter hair, this is all you'll need in combination with draping.  With longer hair, this beomes more crucial, as it will help better placement for the start of a simulation/draping and not only just the style.

-Like William mentioned, using a low poly figure and skull cap to make the base hair style works best if collisions are needed.  After you have a base hair you're happy with, save it in your library.  I then load it on my 'posed' figure, sim all the groups, and see what need tweeking, and then run the groups one at a time until I get each group where I want them.

-Finding out what all the dials do can be daunting at first, but as you play they start to become more apparent. 

For instance: 

-Root strength=how much the base (initial polygons) of the hair group 'stays' in place until a factor becomes involved. (Movement, wind force, pysical objects, ect.)  The higher the setting, the more it'll stay in place. That leads to...

-Root Strength Falloff= how far along the hair(polygons) the root strength goes.  Think of it like moose or hairspray.  You have to be careful with all this too though, as it can create very unrealistic results.  Basically, trial and error here.

-Possition Force:  Is used in combination with root strength falloff.  Think of it as hairspray.  I try and use as little of this as possible with long hair simulations, instead using the styling tools to get my hair as close to placement as possible.  Works great with short hair IMHO.

-Gravity:  As stated above, too high a setting can cause a lot of problems.  But I will state some higher settings helps in keeping things draping in the right places.  Trial and error again.  I use settings of -.0003 - -.0005.

-Kink and Kink strength help give that extra bit of life into natural hair, or adds the curls in your do.  Note that these are added AFTER a simulation, and these alone can cause poke throughs.

-Vertices=how many polygones are in each strand.  The higher the number, the more 'bends' (natuaral flow) it can make.  Note that this will increase your simulation time dramtically!!  I usually stay around 60 for longer hair, but have gone up as high as 100.

Not sure if I'm correct on all of that, but that's what I have gathered in my short time in the hair room.  Plus I haven't had my coffee yet.

Please correct me on any errors I have made please.

-Jeremy

haven't you noticed with gravity set that low that the longer hair doesn't finish draping?

It starts at the root and works it's way down, and if the gravity is too low it stops midway (or less)

No?

Sort of.  The thing is, the longer the hair, the more it's required to have some frames to 'settle'.  Otherwise the hair looks unnatural.  Long hair needs to breathe, and is never perfect.  The extra gravity comes in to affect at the simulation part more than draping.

Edit:

Oh, and I forgot to add that I use higher 'air damping' setting with that.  Increasing that will help finish the drape.

Also, I forgot, increasing the 'Spring damping' can help reduce the freakish flyaways on hair that you can have 'styled' in place in sims.

Well, those tidbits of info have really done the trick!  I don't know how I failed to stumble on these conclusions after my trials and errors, but somehow the effect of Air dampening has eluded me.  Now I can sim my hair out without fear of awful results.  Thanks!

Anytime.  Any more questions, feel free to ask!  I'll always help where I can and if I might know something.

Note:  I should probably start replying more here on the forums.  I'm here everyday reading, but rarely post anything.  It can be hard for me to articulate what's in my head, so a lot of times I just wuss out.  Maybe it's the 'public' thing.  I don't seem to have that issue with pm's.  lol

Wow thanks Jeremy that is all very helpful.  I've been going to the HR with my V4, HiRes skin and all... whoops!

Another question now... where can I find/get/make a skullcap to work on?  Not exactly sure what a skullcap is.  Or if it's safe to work on V4's head with nothing else added I can continue to do that, but knowing my luck my computer will still crash.  :)

Thanks again!!

go to rdna and download some free dynamic hairs from the past.  They all come with skullcaps you can use (You'll have to re-fit them, I think)

Oh ok, unfortunately I don't know how to refit...  Does that just mean scale things so it fits V4?  And the ones I found say "Poser 5" only so I'm not sure if that would even work at all in 8 and then be able to refit them as suggested.

I feel like for every step forward, I end up taking 2 steps back.  :(

Yes, refitting means scaling, and it will work in Poser 8.  It doen't HAVE to be perfect, just close enough.

I know it feels like everytime you start to figure something out, something sets you back, but really all this knowledge is accumulative.  Best advise is to take baby steps and learn incrementally.  That way you won't get overwhelmed and discouraged.  Stick with it.  It can produce results that make your jaw drop.

Keep playing and learning.  When you have a question, never be affraid to ask.

And at the same time, just get in there and get your hands dirty.  Don't get too bogged down in endless questions.  If you think you know the answer, try it and see if it works.  You may discover something the rest of us don't know or haven't thought of yet.

Oh I don't like asking questions... I'll sit and play and play and play.  Took me a week to gain the courage to post this question!

That's great!  But at the same time, if there IS something that just isn't clicking ask away.  If you're like me, then you might be more comfortable asking in a PM.  That's what I usually do.

By the way, William, I'd love to have some fun with your hair piece.  Wink, Wink.  ;)  Hehe

About 3 hours of fiddling, and I got the hair to 'fall' into the cleavage.  ;)

Link

Well, honestly, our two hairs look about the same, you just need to put some kink into yours with a bit of delay.