Majority concerning "shvrdavid" Comments

After going through this thread carefully , it seems that everything ever made for
The millennium figures would be a copyright en-fragment as for Daz pretending
using any morph, Bones joint zones. .. any information from one of Hes figures would be
copyright en-fragment .. so may I ask, how are the clothings made, where do the informations
come from to add any adaptable morphs or joint zones .. I would say that he would pretend that even a
morph name that is transfered to a clothing would be illegal to use.
Well for hes own purposes.
If it is true what I have read in this forum then 80 percent of all V4 ad-dons would be
stolen and Illegal meaning that every costumer would have the right of a refund
of buys ever since, from any Poser content Store.

I do not assume, like pretended Before that any creator is willing to go to Daz Begging for permission
and have them check there files to be approved , that would seem like a Daz Dictatorship on
how to handle Poser content for hes own Benefits over all creations.
Well we are all little sheep's and believe when one say's this is Law and this is Copyright ... Do We?
if so then there would of never been any clothings and addons for V4 or M4 as any change on a original Figure
would be Copyright In-fragment without a Written Permission.

Since DS4 came out Daz is distancing him self from Poser but still wants the Poser Content to be
compatible with DS4 as DS would be nothing without Poser ! in the opposite way he would not give any Compatibility
all for hes own Profits.

It is not up to Daz do decide over the Poser Market how to make content for the Figures ... as they need the joint parameters
to work on the figure else they would be useless so do the morphs to be able to adapt the clothings. to say it again ,
each clothing part uses this method and would be Illegally produced they would have to be removed from the stores!!
and buyers would have to get there money back.

This weight mapping storry is only an abuse sides DAZ as he knows that the content of Poser would not be Compatible with DS4
once weight Mapped !! Well he is a Business Man , and what do Businessman do ?
Hes expectations of creating incompatible things in DS4 for Poser but Poser has to give Comp ability throughout DS4
well until hes plan of burying Poser is reached.

At the end it is up to the Creators if they wanna give belief on all these Pretending of Copyright also supporting DAZ
to reach hes own purposes.

So why is it such an issue for Weight mapping figure cocerning Copyright?
Why is it not for clothings and Morphs?

When V4 WM was done, it turned out to be a blessing, as rerigging the figure from scratch improved the functionality.

I don't disagree with your points about the rigging in conformers, gate, but is it worth the risk of getting sued?

Well I dont think that Daz will sue anybody , as I said in theory it is the same thing as creating a Clothing , or adding the Millenium morph to those and sell them, if he sues a vendor for creating Clothings for a Wm or creating  script injecting Wm zones into the Figure even redestribute a WM CR2 he might as well sue all the Previous Millenium addons , allot of vendors use Daz Morphs save them as new Geometrie file , combined morphs and then resell them as there own isent that copyright infragment ? as we all know it was never the question to redestribute a Millenium CR2 with new integrated Morphs or being remapped it always was approved from DAZ you sure will find some in this store, forbidden was to redestribute any OBJ files.

Morphs and joint zones are symply nummbers , coordinates, who the hell would wanna copyright nummbers or coordinates witch are infinitly avaible. 

then saving any figure or prop will change the whole script and will not be combareable with the originall witch makes each unique , with an exeption of the OBJ file or the texture files that are naturally copyright protected. 

the changes in a PZ2 Cr2 are mostly a callup script with each its own coordinates with exeption if you integrate the geometrie into them.

So if DAZ changed hes mind about hes figure he had to do it a long time ago, forbitting any changes of CR2 changes or modifications. so why is he doing it now ?

One word competition..

They do not want competition for their new figure even if it's one of their own figures revised.. :(

Quote - One word competition..

They do not want competition for their new figure even if it's one of their own figures revised.. :(

That's sooo true!  But that's the thing about business... there's going to be competition whether they like it or not. They shouldn't take it personally though, after all, "It's just business."  :0) 

Quote - So why is it such an issue for Weight mapping figure cocerning Copyright?
Why is it not for clothings and Morphs?

Eulas are so they can pull the plug, so to speak.

I went strait to the source and asked them. I went by what I was told by Daz.

It is their character, their Eula, and they can do whatever they want with it because no one that bought V4 actually owns it.

I also completely agree that is seems strange that they did not want to allow something that is done with clothes all the time, to be done with an addon for the character.

Didn't really matter in the end. V4 WM is in lots of runtimes now.

V4 WM extended how long the character will be usefull, in Poser, for a long time.

Well in the Law it is so as soon as you bought this file it is free for your usage a lifetime, even if the owner prohibits the redestribution of the original file it does not mean that it could not be modefied. as soon as you make changes on a digital Item , in this case it is the purpose to do so as the figures where created on this Base, the creator will loose part rights on it. In the law of products that are provided to make your own creations it is so that you buy the copyrighted necessary stuff .. example you buy Fabric to create your clothes the fabric is copyright protected , but as soon as you modefie the fabric and make a shirt ot of it the shirt and the fabric is under your copyright as you got only the material to create a new product.

then to be able to partly copyright protect a product you have to go through copyrightoffice and registrate your work depending on the product you have to give proof that you own the whole product in our case model creations it has to be proven even if it is a texture Skin who provided the skin , who's skin is it and it has to be given credit to the one who originally provided the skin , especially if it is based on a picture of a human organic skin if not ig would go under Privacy invasion of the originall skin provider.

the figure provided from DAZ is only a base to be able to create your own like a child box of parts to glue together as soon as you saved your own CR2 in a new form it is legally fully in possesion of the new creator and he can do whateve he whants with it.

Any programm provides you with simple Meshes to be able to create your own you use it to create a new thing you sell it as your own creation even that that part consitst of copyrightprotected parts !!!

Maya provided a Scifi Motocycle as a learning Programm this modell has been modefied several times some slight changes a little morph here and there , this modefied modell can be found here in DAZ store and also in other stores and it is Legaly protected by the new creator as long as it has not been changed again by an other one.

the material provided for grafic programms are ment to be to create your own like material to build your own house not more and not less, like copyrightprotected paint you buy to make your own paintings  

I can give you another sample for fully legal Copywriting , you create a Digital building witch you need to texture , so you google for textures Images or even you go and take detailed Pictures of doors windows etc. in first hand you have to inform the owner get a written permission, inform the originall owner that you will use this Picture im Public and even resell it this permission has to be added in your copyrightstatement each detail of added things have to be added in your copyrightform inclusive the names of the providers , the date the Place the Person.

Now somone should give me a sample of how many products in this store or the Daz store can provide such a legal statement on there product, would we go traight twoards the legal procedure of copyright over 90 percent of sold items would have to be taken down from the stores, they would have to go through a longtime procedure to be approved and most would not even pass the requirements , prices would raise to heaven, and no hobbiist could afford any figures.

my conclusion is that DAZ statement is a big Bluff on hes own thoughts about Legal copyright just to be able to controll this market restricting other great creatores. threatning and fear always was a great weapon but it is not the throuth it is only a way to make Buisness for own Purposes. 

Probably so, but if they issue a DMCA takedown, what is one's recoursse?

A "DMCA takedown notice" has to do with finding a website that is using one of your "images" without permission. You may then contact the hosting ISP to report the infringment. The letter that you send is called a "DMCA Takedown notice." 

What does that notice have to do with making morphs or creating a character for V4?

Another thing I don't understand is how anyone can copyrite a shape. And that's exactly what V4/M4/K4 is... they are shapes. That's like saying I'm going to copyrite air and anyone who breathes it will have to pay me... Sounds pretty freaking rediculous, donit??

well they would have to prove the digital infragment the creator has to be able to give proof that he actually created the redestributed file , but he dident as the script will totally differ from hes, there will be no match and he cant pretend that he made the creation you did, he only provided the possibilitie to create it and even claimed it as such when sold. If it would be as easy then the Internet would not exist anymore immagine if somone would start to say the sold packs consist of copywrited stuff , each Creator would have to be able to give proof of where the stuff came from, and could they ?? as long as you dont try to resell the Millenium figure in its current state you are on the right path like most of the things that have been created and sold throughout the stores.

if one day one stands in front of your house and will say ... I have copyright on that stone brick in your wall , you have to remove it as I did not give you the permission to build it into your wall ... you also have no right to resell that house !! would that not be a little paradox. 

also if costumers would be blocked on using there files as they where sold to be able to show an own creativity and as base to create there own, they could clame there money back as it would be fraud. 

Quote - A "DMCA takedown notice" has to do with finding a website that is using one of your "images" without permission. You may then contact the hosting ISP to report the infringment. The letter that you send is called a "DMCA Takedown notice." 

What does that notice have to do with making morphs or creating a character for V4?

The DMCA applies to any copyrighted work

As derivative works under US copyright laws, DAZ owns the copyright of morphs and characters of their copyrighted meshes. One is alllowed to use or distribute them only according to the terms of DAZ' license...

EDIT: Here is some discussion of Derivative Works from the USPTO...

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

Oh I understand that DMCA applies to any copyrighted work. However, if Victoria is injected with a change then the author of that injection is the copyright holder. Otherwise, 90% of the stuff sold here in the marketplace and elsewhere is in violation of copyright, according to the DAZ license???

What I'd like to know is if DAZ registered Victoria with the copyright office. There is no evidence available, that I'm aware, to show how Victoria has been registered in the copyrite office, if at all. Also, the US Copyright office is not the authority for the entire world and we all know she's been sold across the globe.

Each change or modification of Victoria follows the author of the change, not DAZ. I'm not arguing that DAZ doesn't hold copyrite to Victoria, but we're talking about derivitive works done to her.

Carefully read the artical you posted. Mainly it concerns motion pictures, novels, sound recordings and drawings. I think you may have missed some key points, too much for me to go into here.

Everything that was allowed before is now prohibitted?? and that's actually something the law cannot do. Can't be legal one day then pass laws that make what you did before now illegal. That's called  an ex post facto law or retroactive law, which is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law. Since the US is a country that has a bill of right and a constitution, ex post facto legislation is prohibited. But, DAZ is apparently changing their license as it suits them. And as far I'm concerned they don't play nice with the other kids, so they are going to be playing alone if they keep it up.

Quote - Everything that was allowed before is now prohibitted?? and that's actually something the law cannot do. Can't be legal one day then pass laws that make what you did before now illegal. That's called  an ex post facto law or retroactive law, which is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law. Since the US is a country that has a bill of right and a constitution, ex post facto legislation is prohibited. But, DAZ is apparently changing their license as it suits them. And as far I'm concerned they don't play nice with the other kids, so they are going to be playing alone if they keep it up.

A license is a contract, which falls under civil, not criminal law, which is what ex post facto legislation involves.  The DAZ EULA (which has not changed recently AFAIK) spells out what derivative works of theor copyrighted products are allowed and what can be done with them, and they have given an opinion as to what is permisible as far as sharing rigging goes.  Based on your comments, for your own protection I suggest you consult with an attorney in your country for advice if any aspects of DAZ' license are unclear...

But v4 has a commerical license... and you would not be including any obj/texture/cr2, etc... that they created. In fact the vertice weight 3d space of an object you create and map could not be exactly the same as any other object... If you were to alter the maps in any way after using any auto feature, would it then not be completely unique (not that I'm going to use it... just playing devils advocate)?

legal aside.... good to know about the weight mapping!

Quote -

A license is a contract, which falls under civil, not criminal law, which is what ex post facto legislation involves. The DAZ EULA (which has not changed recently AFAIK) spells out what derivative works of theor copyrighted products are allowed and what can be done with them, and they have given an opinion as to what is permisible as far as sharing rigging goes. Based on your comments, for your own protection I suggest you consult with an attorney in your country for advice if any aspects of DAZ' license are unclear...

Yes I'm aware that ex post facto legislation involves criminal activity.   It also involves civil cases under the US Constition Article I, section 10, clause 1 (contracts). 

Based on my comments you suggest I consult with an attorney? I never said aspects of the DAZ license are unclear to me. I am simply questioning them, which I have every right to do. To consult an attorney would imply that I make derivitives of Victoria, which I do not, and I have no intention of doing so for the purposes of making money. Thanks for your concern though, I am perfectly capable of protecting myself.

Quote - A license is a contract, which falls under civil, not criminal law, which is what ex post facto legislation involves.  The DAZ EULA (which has not changed recently AFAIK) spells out what derivative works of theor copyrighted products are allowed and what can be done with them, and they have given an opinion as to what is permisible as far as sharing rigging goes.  Based on your comments, for your own protection I suggest you consult with an attorney in your country for advice if any aspects of DAZ' license are unclear...

Fact is that the DAZ Eula prohibits anything exept usage of Rendering. Fact is also that any who will resell an addon Product modefiing the Mesh has to be done with agrement of DAZ , the figure could in theory only be used in her his original state to create renders. that is the DAZ Eula in short terms .

International Law requires Translation of contracts DAZ does not offer that feature, in each cauntry there would be the need of a representant for the Product to make it Legal.

Any Vendor who have created Clothings addons Morphs etc would have to be given by daz a legal written Permission to use and resell direct related Products EX. Morphs integrated into the Mesh ! witch would as soon signed by Daz, give the full right to the one reselling of parts of the figure.

as for it has been done since Five years without any explict Permissions from DAZ throughout the vendors, in Knowelege and with support from DAZ,makes it  an Unwritten Contract to be able to do it anyway. DAZ Broke hes own Laws and contract and cant come now Saying that anybody did anything against he's eula.

As mentioned before any changes modificatons Injectable morphs or coordinates made from third Person are not propriety of DAZ ( They are not under hes contract ) even if the purpose of usage is a Figure he Provided.

using for example crossdresser to modefie or INJ morphs will recreate the Mesh In low Medium or High res save a new Obj file and remap the figure. means that these will not be comparable to the Originally used Mesh.

to conclude this my meaning would be that DAZ offers the millenium figure onto the free market to Improve he her ( Not locking her into a cage as hes little Trophy )even doh that it might of been a copy of dan farr and he's wife. He could aprofite as well. the ones who provide new ideas to Improve the mesh could keep her in buisness. he would not even lose the status of being the creator of the originall mesh ! this way the stores even Hes store could approfite of new posibilities of products to be sold.the way it goes now he only restricts him self and others ( calling that GOD complex ) but is not rational, buisnessman should think as such.