Has anyone figured out how to share weight maps for updated Poser figures yet? I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out for the older figures!

Yes you can share them with a pz2 joint insertion pose. Cage I am sure will work one out for us.  nerd3D at RDNA has worked out the particulars but has not shared it publicly yet.

But the method is old school knowledge. Cage has an example on his free site for a joint insertion pose. It is the same method. 

Here is an example posted in the finally thread last year  There should be a script shortly to make the process of making the pose files painless.

Quote - nerd3D at RDNA has worked out the particulars but has not shared it publicly yet.

Nerd posted a tutorial of it on his website a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks for the information. This is very exciting. I expect we will see some fantastic things very shortly.

lmk

Quote - > Quote - nerd3D at RDNA has worked out the particulars but has not shared it publicly yet.

Nerd posted a tutorial of it on his website a couple of weeks ago.

Very good. Didnt know it was public knowledge yet. This tutorial will walk you through the steps for what you want to do. It is much easier than it looks. And as nerd3D suggests, use Poser file editor by Dimension3D it makes the process soo much quicker and easier to understand than trying to cut and paste from a cr2.

As soon as my copy arrives, I hope to start on a script to help create weight insertion poses.  Drat the slow boat shipping.  :lol:  Shouldn't have been such a cheapskate on the shipping front, I guess.  Not sure I can guarantee a script which will make the anti-spaghetti-type folks happy  (:lol:), but it should be able to accomplish what it sets out to do.

Ooh.  Nerd has done all the ground work.  Excellent.  Is a script actually needed?

Yes we need a script please.  Although the tutorial is good and all, still the process is time consuming and tedious, so a script would be excellent. Please, pretty please. I will beg you till you relent.

 I am a shameless mooch and will take full advantage of your talent if you let me :lol:

There are some details that already need to be updated on that tutorial. One problem is that a Pose can't create channels and if your weight maps have affected extra actors you will be adding channels....

Don't worry there's a way to do that too. Netherworks suggested that a read script might create those channels on the fly if executed from a cr2. It works for morphs why not joints... Yeup It does.

Yeah, I've successfully used a cr2 to load another cr2 followed by the joint pose changes.  It would probably work with any "active method" that normally brings something into the scene (cr2, pp2).

Let's say someone tweaked out some of the parts of Antonia with weight mapping (shoulder bends, elbow bends, whatever).

The "loader" cr2 might be called "Antonia Weight Loader.cr2" and contain something like this:

{
version
    {
    number 9
    }
readScript ":Runtime:libraries:character:Antonia:Antonia-1.2.cr2"
readScript ":Runtime:Geometries:Antonia:Injection:Antonia_NWS_WeightMaps.pz2"
}

When you load the Antonia Weight Loader.cr2, it would load Antonia-1.2 and while it's loading... alter the current joint structure to match what is in Antonia_NWS_WeightMaps.pz2.

You can put anything you want in the Pose: The joints, plus dependencies, plus animated centers information, etc...

If you don't actively do it like this and just try to use a joint pose, it's only going to change what exists on the figure, not add anything.

I haven't seen any weird behavior yet.  If the joints' rigging exists, it changes them.  If information is missing it adds it.

I have a rudimentary script that generates a joint pose with only the basic joint information (including weight maps).  It needs polish for sure.  I was running into a wall if folks wanted to include dependencies (ERC).  It could try to figure out which parameter dials are part of an ERC declaration but it would need to run through a cr2 twice.  Once to build the dependencies as keywords to include, a second time to produce a joint pose file.

Now, if it being selective isn't a concern and folks were willing to work from a basic stripped figure (non-joint based morphs and extranous dials removed) then it would only need to make one run.

You'd just need to tell the script when to turn on and when to turn off when writing via reading the cr2 and writing the pz2.

Any news? ^^

I'm just beginning to make sense of some of this.  Thank you, nerd and Netherworks, for all of this information.  I had no idea that readScript could be used to modify a figure while it was loading!  Wow!  Who figured that out?  Excellent.  This readScript technique itself seems like it might have plenty of potential.

I still don't have my upgrade and may not for some days, so I can't do much more than take notes at this point.  :sad:

Netherworks, are you planning to release your script?  I don't want to step on any toes or create confusion by having multiple scripts floating around if you'll already be providing a solution.  (Not to mention that any script I might create could only be inferior to your work....  :lol:)

is the pz2 file useful because it's accessed from a cr2 file?   i'm assuming that's the case rather than it being because it's accessed using a readScript, but i figure it's good to check. 

Quote - is the pz2 file useful because it's accessed from a cr2 file?   i'm assuming that's the case rather than it being because it's accessed using a readScript, but i figure it's good to check.

That would seem to make sense.  Interesting.

It has to be in a CR2. In Posers mind Character files create new stuff in a scene. Poses (PZ2) only change existing things. The file parser operates in a different mode.

Attached Link: http://rbtwhiz.com/rbtwhiz_rScript.html

The basics was rbtwhiz (see attached link, which was used for DAZ's delta INJection). This thread -> http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=1474180 suggests that sixus1 might have originated the adding channel method.

Quote - I'm just beginning to make sense of some of this.  Thank you, nerd and Netherworks, for all of this information.  I had no idea that readScript could be used to modify a figure while it was loading!  Wow!  Who figured that out?  Excellent.  This readScript technique itself seems like it might have plenty of potential.

I still don't have my upgrade and may not for some days, so I can't do much more than take notes at this point.  :sad:

Netherworks, are you planning to release your script?  I don't want to step on any toes or create confusion by having multiple scripts floating around if you'll already be providing a solution.  (Not to mention that any script I might create could only be inferior to your work....  :lol:)

Cage, I wasn't planning on selling it (not that you said that, per se) :).  I had the idea to develop it for the community and give it to everyone as a feather in the cap for Poser.  My problem right now is that I have a very full plate.  Well, that and I get "script burnout" sometimes.  I have had to go through dozens of scripts (some products have multiple components) and get them prepared for Poser 9 and I've been doing this for weeks now... So I get a bit like... yeesh...  Need break!

I am willing to share work with you or work on some ideas on how to approach it together, if you'd like.  Or you might simply look at what I've done and come up with a better direction.  I'm also open to getting as many people on it, who want to play around with it.

Since there are not of lot of Poser Python Methods to work with here, I've been doing a  parsing through a cr2 approach.  It works but it can snag...  That's the only thing I don't like about it.

Quote - is the pz2 file useful because it's accessed from a cr2 file?   i'm assuming that's the case rather than it being because it's accessed using a readScript, but i figure it's good to check. 

The pz2 is just a carrier and something Poser recognizes as being valid.

I have the idea that there are 2 kinds of library files in Poser: Active and Passive.  Active files bring something into the scene by creating something new.  Passive files just change existing values.  Poses, Cameras, Material Collections, etc are passive - they just change something that already exists.  Figures, Hair, Props are active and bring objects into the scene.

I think this is why it works... marrying the cr2 with a pz2 gives something for Poser to actively load while saying the pz2 portion is part of that cr2 being loaded.

I've been doing this for a while to load new morphs into figures without using "blank slots".  My Samedi and Koneko figures use this in regards to add-ons.  You just load the "loader cr2" and it brings the figure in with the new morphs and you can save the figure back into the Poser library, ready to take more "add-ons" as necessary.

cage - have u got your poser yet?

Quote - cage - have u got your poser yet?

Sadly, no.  And if it doesn't arrive some time today, I won't have much time to work on a script for the next week or so.  But fear not!  :lol:  I'll get something together as soon as I can.

The lesson to learn here may be never to select the "Ground" shipping option when speedier methods are available for a few only a dollars more.    As a skinflint, I find that difficult, I fear.  :lol:

Edit:  No, I will have Friday.  I can work on it on Friday, and some evenings.  So it won't be a full week before I can get to it, just that long before I can spend as much time on it as I usually do with a script.

My "Ground" shippment copy came today. 

Scott

Well, there's hope, then!  I'll check and see if the tracking feature offers any insight today.  Part of the trouble with Ground is that you can get a great deal of variance depending on where you are relative to their sorting hubs and whatnot.  I'm in a rural area, but one not too far removed from civilization, so... just maybe.  :woot:

Also: Cage is jealous.  :lol:

Any news Cage?

Yes.  I should have Poser tomorrow before the end of the business day.  So I can give the script some good time on Friday.

whoohooooo!  Have tons of fun with it!  I really hope it does arrive tomorrow for you.

The basics of a script are together.  It can create the weight injection poses from the donor .cr2.  I ended up having to save and reload the file before the inserted joints showed up properly, but that may be some kind of system error on my end, as I'm seeing similar joint oddities on P8 pz3 files I've tested.

The harder part of the process lies ahead, with support for the above-revealed process of adding new actor affector references, as well as animatable joint centers.  So it will take a couple of days of work before it's ready to be posted.  I should be able to give it that required attention again beginning on Monday.  So hopefully by Wednesday or Thursday I'll have something.

Okay.  I threw out what I had and rewrote the thing to make it a bit more flexible.  Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to extend this new form to include animatable joint centers.

I do have a question for the users, however.  The script will require four file paths: the donor .cr2 from which the weights are derived, the location of the base figure .cr2 to be loaded by the readScript, the save location for the readScript "runner" .cr2, and the save location for the actual joint insertion pose.

That's a bunch of file paths for a script user to have to select.  :scared:  And once the insertion pose is saved, it can't be relocated without breaking the readScript process.

So I thought I'd ask: how do you feel about browsing for four paths as part of the process?  Too confusing, somehow?  The script could try to simplify the process by saving the readScript .cr2 and the insertion pose to the same folder as the target base figure .cr2.  Or something of that sort.  But that could lead to unwanted clutter in that folder, with the files unable to be moved without being broken.

So: what do you, the users, want?  Any thoughts? 

I don't mind browsing but if searching during the browse could be made as easy as possible, eg copy paste a file name or something.

Love esther

PS I also don't mind clutter.

For my part I would prefer a CR2 with the weight map data saved within itself if that's possible.

Cage, you should know I've encountered some mystery snag injecting the data. Some figures it works, some it doesn't and I can't figure out why the ones that don't are being stubborn. One of them is Andy the P9 manequin. If I inject the joints by PZ2 it works fine. If I try a CR2 hot load it never reads the pose file. >.<

I've picked through the Pose and Hot Load files line by line and I can't figure out what's derailing the process. I even tried putting the joint data right in the Hot Load CR2 -- no luck.

I dont mind clutter either. :)

Quote - Cage, you should know I've encountered some mystery snag injecting the data. Some figures it works, some it doesn't and I can't figure out why the ones that don't are being stubborn. One of them is Andy the P9 manequin. If I inject the joints by PZ2 it works fine. If I try a CR2 hot load it never reads the pose file. >.<
I've picked through the Pose and Hot Load files line by line and I can't figure out what's derailing the process. I even tried putting the joint data right in the Hot Load CR2 -- no luck.

That's interesting... and bad news.  :scared:  No patterns have become apparent?

I've only tested loading the weights from a pose once, and in that case some of the joints didn't update until after the file was saved and reloaded.  But the process worked.

The work Diogenes has been doing on Antonia has made me wonder whether we need another approach.  He's adding new "helper bone" actors to the .cr2, as well as magnets to help correct some tricky areas.  I'm not sure whether Poser will be able to add the actors or magnets using the readScript approach revealed near the top of the thread.

The backup plan I've been considering is a script to actually merge the pose into the .cr2 on the file level, using Python instead of relying on Poser's native loading process.  We know we can distribute the weight data via a pose, so presumably that should work.  Not as convenient for users, perhaps, but it's beginning to sound like it could be a more reliable approach.  :unsure:

Unfortunately that means more work for the scriptwriter(s).  :lol:  When I rewrote the script yesterday, I was partially thinking about extensibility.  I think the current framework could be used as the basis for a merging script as well as the pose creation script.

Is there anything I can do to help with testing of this new problem?

Quote - For my part I would prefer a CR2 with the weight map data saved within itself if that's possible.

Does it have to be a .cr2?  The pose itself will be a stripped-down .cr2.  If you're planning to hand edit the files and merge the data that way, you can still use the pose for that purpose.  That's what I plan to do, anyway.  I just prefer digging around inside the Poser files.  Even if it leads to the occasional error.  :lol: 

If you want the actual original weight-mapped .cr2, it sounds like there are distribution problems with those, in the case of proprietary figures. 

I'm seeing two nods toward the "cluttered" approach, here.  :lol:  If I save the pose and "runner" .cr2 to the same folder as the target figure, then the user only has to browse for the weighted donor figure and the target figure.  I'll try that first, if there are no protests.  But... is two enough for a quorum in a thread like this?  :unsure:

  'According to Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, Tenth Edition, the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order, the "requirement for a quorum is protection against totally unrepresentative action in the name of the body by an unduly small number of persons." '  :unsure:

I did not decide for the "cluttered" version (or an un-cluttered) because in fact I have far too less knowledge at all about weightmaps at the moment and still read and learn. So if there are people who like to try out what you created why not give them a chance?! There is still enough time later to create something more smooth from what you have now - if desired at all. I think that prompting for some file locations is not hard to do and I am more than used to it by programs that are available for money. Injection Magic is one of those candidates - it seems to be able to do an auto search but always gets a stack overflow as I have several harddrives and the program won't let you decide for one of them. So in the end you search things by hand and often you aren't even able to see what to look up as the search window is small (and not resizable) and parts of the file names are hidden.

Why this rant? Just to let you know what half-baked things are available for money - and your script is free, so asking for some manual input on it is definitly not too much!

Well... okay!  :laugh:  Adding the option to specify the pose save path and loader .cr2 save path isn't a problem at all.

Here's what seems to be a working basic version of the script.  This is creating the loader .cr2 and the pose.  Theoretically it should then be able to add new joint affector references, then.  It isn't handling animatable origins yet and I haven't tried to take any step toward supporting helper bones or joint-assisting magnets.  Just a basic script.

This one is set up for the "cluttered" approach, which will place the files as I noted in my last post.  I can go ahead and set up an option to specify all four paths.

Change the file extension from ".txt" to ".py" on the attached file.

Cool this will speed up my investigation as to why some figures are rejecting this. Hopefully it will turn out it just P9 Andy that's being stubborn. Hacking out weight map injectors by hand is a lot of no fun.

Thanks Cage :) I'm off to play with it. 

cheers,

Mike.

I'm wondering about support for animatable origins, in the script.  If the script is intended for use in creating weight map injection poses, I can see the utility of including animatable origin support for the transform dials: translate, scale, and (primarily) rotate.  It seems to me that animatable origin support for valueParm or targetGeom is really a separate matter, deserving of a separate script.  In that case, the morph or set of FBM morphs is really the point, with the origin adjustments dependent on those deformations.  The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to try to put that into the main weight map script.  I think that's more of a morph packaging concern and, as I say, it would make sense to me to treat it separately.

That is, unless someone knows of a really good reason to combine the two?  :unsure:  I suppose the effectiveness of a morph set could be reliant on weight mapping and animated origins.  But... it still seems to me that such a case would be more about the morphs and less about the primary concern of making weight map distribution accessible to a wide user base.  Hurm.

Any thoughts? 

Separate scripts would make sense to me as well. Or at least separate selection in a combined script. But you should hear from nerd3D and netherworks on it. as I am not a scripting genious like yourself. :m_cigar:

This is also set up to handle animatable origins which are linked to rotation, scale, or translation dials.  The OffsetA listings currently include some unnecessary lines, but that shouldn't affect the functionality of any created poses.  (Points lost for style, however.  Sorry.    I'm pulling it together, gradually.)

As before, save the attachment and change the file suffix to .py, to use the script.

Cage, i created a script to auto-readjust joint centers for a fbm, like morphing cloths but for joints. Can this be combined with your script? Mine is only positioning the joints, but creating an injection for the animation would make this much more useful

Quote - Cage, i created a script to auto-readjust joint centers for a fbm, like morphing cloths but for joints. Can this be combined with your script? Mine is only positioning the joints, but creating an injection for the animation would make this much more useful

I'm not sure.  What is your script doing?  This script is ripping a pose from a .cr2 file which already has the animated origins set up.  If your script is running within Poser, it might be more straightforward for it to add a feature to write a pose on the fly, as it were, then apply it.  If it's being run within Poser, I assume you'd know what dependencies you'd want to set up for the animated origin.  If you have all of that, creating a pose shouldn't be too hard.

But I'm making assumptions about what your script does. 

Ah, then I misunderstood, its late my apologies :) i want to write a file to inject morph and the animated jpints, which the script computes

Have you taken a look at the example files on Nerd's site?  The Alien Andy files show what is needed in a pose which injects the animated origins.

There still seem to be some complications with the process, however.  I don't think we've fully worked out what's happening, but there are errors and failures with the process in some cases.  I'm hoping those can be sorted out soon, because I'm not sure how to proceed with adding the next set of features to the script until I know what works and what doesn't.  :unsure:

I have a fully weight mapped V4 if anyone is interested.

"I have a fully weight mapped V4 if anyone is interested."

Yes, and thank you!

lmk

can I see?

Love esther

Interested ? Yes !

sure

Of course. I only wish you could have sent me a site mail earlier would have saved me a lot of time and work.

Cheers,

Mike.

Quote - I have a fully weight mapped V4 if anyone is interested.

By fully weighmapped, do you mean you've managed to improve her bends or did you use Poser Pro 2012's one click bone joint conversion process? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Yes, that was my question too SteveJax.