My last post was supposed to be "It looks really good" not "I"...lol.

I think it is nice that APG will have somehing to wear for outdoor activities. :)

Now that's something different - very good! Will the hair be included or did you match the hair to an existing one?

The hair is part of it... but it cant be used on its own at present.  Its missing everything you'd think would be under the hat.. I think I bit off more than I could chew with the hair so I'm not even sure if I'll do any more textures than the black that is shown

Quote - Now that's something different - very good! Will the hair be included or did you match the hair to an existing one?

The cap looks wonderful, totally realistic. The problem with many things in Poser is that they look too perfect. The cap has wrinkles in the material, and uneven stitching. It's perfect because of it's carefully engineered lack of perfection.

Quote - The cap looks wonderful, totally realistic. The problem with many things in Poser is that they look too perfect. The cap has wrinkles in the material, and uneven stitching. It's perfect because of it's carefully engineered lack of perfection.

Agreed.

I apologize for taking so long.  It does NOT appear to work in Poser Pro 2012.

The girl on your left is Antonia Weight-Mapped.  The girl on your right is Antonia-DS4.

I used pose 031c from the TGP Poses 02 pack.

As I started this post, I realized that I had not looked at the Inverse Kinematics for the hands.  It turns out that the Inverse Kinematics menu item for Poser is greyed-out for your figure.  I do not know if that is relevant.

To my mind, this implies that IK might be involved after all.

I think the IK is in the pose, and since IK isn't available you get the issues with hands and feet. I know that there was a pose fix for genesis to fix this issue when using poser pose files, so that solution probably needs to be applied to this figure as well.

I have been following this topic with interest.  I really like Antonia figure and the direction that she is taking.  

"Quote - Here is pose 039a, which shows that the problem is not limited to the hands.To my mind, this implies that IK might be involved after all."

I have seen something similar to this in DS4 with poser & DS legacy figures other than V4 (V3, M3, Jessi, P5 etc)  and while applying all legacy figure poses to Genesis.  In all cases the fix was to lock the x,y,z, translations (not rotations) on the hands & feet, and then save the figure.  With the translations locked the problem went away.  The big advantage is that one can now use the legacy poses on Genesis without the distortion shown in your post.

Since the figure is geared for DS this could be the issue.  Perhaps if the x,y,z trans were locked before the conversion the problem could be avoided.

Just my two cents worth...

No offence to anyone, but I'm trying to figure out why this is something to try to achieve:

"The converted AntoniaDS4 for Poser 9 can be downloaded at the following link.
https://sites.google.com/site/amyaimei/antonia/AntoniaDS4P9.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

Antonia was developed for Poser. AntoniaWM was developed for P9/PP2012. Antonia DS4 was developed for DS4+ .

AntoniaDs4 for P9? Am I missing something, here?

At a guess I would say that it caters to the group that use both programs and would prefer to only deal with keeping track of a single figure.  But that is only my guess.

Quote - At a guess I would say that it caters to the group that use both programs and would prefer to only deal with keeping track of a single figure.  But that is only my guess.

Oh okay. That makes sense, I guess.

The point of having the same character to work with for both programs should apply to Antonia > AntoniaDS4 without creating another version of her.

If the character was properly converted to DS, having a convert of it back to Poser seems counter productive to me.

Doing so is the same as exporting Genesis From DS into another program, then making another version of Genesis to use in DS.

Quote - The point of having the same character to work with for both programs should apply to Antonia > AntoniaDS4 without creating another version of her.

If the character was properly converted to DS, having a convert of it back to Poser seems counter productive to me.

Doing so is the same as exporting Genesis From DS into another program, then making another version of Genesis to use in DS.

Totally agreed.

Don't they have all the figures they want to play with DS?
Why do they need our figures made for Poser now?

lol

Personally, I took Amy-Aimee's efforts as a gift to the community.  As such, I have no interest in questioning her motives or her judgment.

My only regret in the affair is that I was unable to report unquestioned success to her.

If that sounds a bit stiff and formal, or even annoyed, my apologies.  I can be stiff and formal sometimes, particularly when I feel a need to choose my words with care to try to avoid causing offense.  Naturally, I usually achieve the exact opposite by that very same cautious approach.  [wry smile]

I agree, if DS people want to use antonia and can find a way they are welcome.  I actually own DS but I haven't used it because I want to be able to use the same characters in my comic in both proggies or it is no use to me.

Love esther

Quote - Personally, I took Amy-Aimee's efforts as a gift to the community. 

That, right there.

The snide comments in response is the reason why people are in the position to help won't lift a finger help out.

Learn some tact.

Is there anyone in a position to help?   

Maybe I didn't catch everything.. I didn't think anyone was naysaying the work that has been put in to make antonia usable in ds4...  just questioning the value in then converting the already converted figure back to poser.  On the face of it, it does seem like a bit of a redundant step.

Quote - Personally, I took Amy-Aimee's efforts as a gift to the community.  As such, I have no interest in questioning her motives or her judgment.

Thalek, thank you for helping.

I think I better make it clear about my objective.  My objective is plain simple, one Antonia that works in both Poser and DAZ Studio.  Yes, there is one already, it is Antonia Standard.  Why I need to make another one?

Odf did a great job on JCM's within Antonia that make Antonia so unique.  Antonia is the most wonderful free character I ever encountered.  The major problem for me is Antonia's JCM.  It can take month for me to make a very simple panties for Antonia.  But removing all JCM's within Antonia just like destroying Antonia.  Then, I came across the Antonia WM.  That's great!  Without JCM, Antonia WM bends as natural as Antonia Standard.  Unfortunately, Antonia WM cannot "wear" clothing made for Antonia Standard without conversion.  In additional, it doesn't work in DAZ Studio 4 and I cannot figure out how to convert the Poser's WM to DAZ Studio's WM after I spent hours on that topic.  Then, I started to make Antonia for DAZ Studio 4 based on Antonia WM.  It was a failure.  I did not give up, I made Antonia for DAZ Studio 4 based on Antonia Standard without the major JCM's.  It seems to work well in DAZ Studio 4.  I think if I can convert it back to Poser format, the Antonia community will have one Weight Mapped Antonia that works in Poser 9, Poser Pro 2012, and DAZ Studio 4.  Maybe, my thinking is too naive.

For someone like the technical details.  The weight maps within Antonia DS4 are linear.  I think these maps can be converted into JCM's.  If it works, I may be able to make clothing for Antonia Standard by using Antonia DS4 as a template.

that sounds really good.

As somebody who is using both softwares I am very thankful that you are working on this!

Quote - ... I did not give up, I made Antonia for DAZ Studio 4 based on Antonia Standard without the major JCM's.  It seems to work well in DAZ Studio 4.

This bit I didn't realise, nor do I understand. Something you're doing is DS with Antonia sans JCMs is still allowing her bending to look realistic and natural. I'm curious as to the approach you took, Amy.

All-around, solid effort!! Good on you!

ah i think i see now... so the effort really is getting DS weightmapping to work in poser?

or translating DS weightmapping to JCMs for poser?  

I can see the value in that.  Possibly not for me personally but for those who do plan hop back and forth between programs

I want to create a systematic way of making conforming clothing for Antonia Standard or modify Antonia Standard to make it easier for making conforming clothing for it.

As I know,both dynamic or conforming clothing cannot act the same way as real clothing because our clothes are not "conformed" to our body.  Observe the basic bikini for V4, its rings will deform in some movements.  Of course, in real world, these rings should not be deformed.  Observe some jeans or pants model, it is hard to maintain the shape of the back pockets.  I'm still looking for approaches that will lead to simplify the rigging and posing of clothing.

Quote - Observe the basic bikini for V4, its rings will deform in some movements.  Of course, in real world, these rings should not be deformed.  Observe some jeans or pants model, it is hard to maintain the shape of the back pockets.  I'm still looking for approaches that will lead to simplify the rigging and posing of clothing.

I'm on the same quest, Amy. I truly think dynamic cloth is in its infancy. I prefer dynamic cloth. If I can use a metaphor, conforming cloth is like procedural programming whilst dynamic is like OOP.

My apologies in advance if there is a better place to ask this question....

I am trying to get Antonia working with PoserPhysics, and I'm finding difficulties with her head bone.  Instead of the standard Poser rigging having the head bone pointing up, Antonia's is pointing forward.  There is very possiblty a great reason for this, or maybe it's a bug.  Does anyone know?

If I recall correctly, I made the head bone point forward so that the "point at" functionality in Poser would work for the head as well, not just the eyes. It just makes more sense for the face to point at, say, a camera than the top of her head. :biggrin:

Too bad about Poser Physics, though. Any way to tweak it?

Thanks for the quick feedback ODF - very much appreciated.

Having the head bone point as per normal figures will mean the PoserPhysics ragdoll simulator can build a ragdoll skeleton for her.  With her head pointed forward, she ends up horribly contorted from the neck up.  The workaround would be for PoserPhysics users to realign the head bone straight up (although her eyes and jaw don't function correctly then).

I found another complication.  Pretty much every Poser figure has their hip parented to the Body, and the waist, thighs, etc parented to the hip.  However Antonia has her waist parented to her Body, and hip parented to her waist.  This is the only Poser figure I am aware of that has this parenting, and unfortunately it's a bit of a show-stopper for PoserPhysics, because everything is basing figure's hip.

I don't know PoserPhysics first hand, but it seems that it has (or used to have) a Python API which would allow one to write an adapted ragdoll script for Antonia. So you'd only have to find someone with the motivation, spare time and Python fu to do it. :biggrin:

According to Wikipedia, I've renamed the hip actor to waist between Antonia 1.0 and 1.2, in order to achieve Wardrobe Wizard compatibility. So you might have better luck with Antonia 1.0 in Poser Physics.

Thanks ODF.  Having parenting run Body->Waist->Hip is highly unconvential, so requiring that for WW compatibility sounds odd to me.  I might post Phil and msg to see if I can get some more info.

As for the PoserPhysics API, that's a good thought, but I haven't exposed enough of the API to build a custom ragdoll.

Hmm, I guess you'll have to do it yourself then. :biggrin:

Sorry, I hadn't realised you were the creator of PhoserPhysics, even though your signature says so. How embarrassing!

Parenting what's now called the waist to the body actor was, if I recall correctly, Diogenes' idea. I think it makes for much easier posing since one can now manipulate the (anatomical) hip independently. Because the hip actor is traditionally parented to the body, that's how we originally did it, until we learned of the problems this caused for WW.

The new naming corresponds a little better with the actual human anatomy, which I guess was relevant for WW matching clothing geometry to the figure. But I'm sure Phil will be able to explain it better. At any rate, since neither body -> waist -> hip nor body -> hip -> hip2 worked perfectly with everything, I think going for the more "natural" naming convention was a good decision in hindsight.

In my completely biased opinion, the benefits gained from parenting the figure from the waist instead of the hip would not warrant the compatibility issues that would arise from having a non-standard rigging system.  But I'm a standards-kinda-guy, and I appreciate not everyone likes to operate that way, and that's OK too.

Poser has had an "unofficial" body part naming convention pretty much from the beginning. One advantage is that a pose made for one figure can easily be used on another particularly after the development of the Universal Pose technology. However if one creator starts to use "abdomen", another "midriff", while another "tummy" it just gets to be a mess. Wardrobe Wizard is no different, it looks for a body part named "waist", if it is presented with "hip2" it will just get confusticated. My thanks again to odf who in this instance simply renamed the body part.

Wardrobe Wizard has no problem with the "non-standard" hierarchy.

When I'm presented with a candidate for Wardrobe Wizard support and find that for what ever reason it contains non-standard characteristics that can not be altered I have found that creating a Wardrobe Wizard compatible version of the figure to be a solution. For a Poser Physics compatible version of Antonia I offer the following solution:-

Load the figure into the Poser scene.
Go to the set up room.
Open the hierarchy editor.
Drag and drop the hip and waist bones to form the correct hierarchical order.
Return to the pose room.
Save the figure as "Antonia-PP"
Open the Antonia-PP.cr2 file in a text editor and change the geometry file line back to what it was in the original file.

Naturally you would need to communicate between yourselves regarding how this file may be distributed.

Does that help any?

Yeah, my approach when working on Antonia, and I think Diogenes', too, was always to experiment and push the boundaries rather than conform to standards. Some of the other folks who contributed may have had more conventional approaches, but in general I feel the whole project was more about exploring what one could do with a Poser figure than sticking to what was already there. Just look at that freaky texture mapping I made, and that eventually pretty much got voted off the island. It's really great that there's now a more or less user-friendly version of Antonia, but that had never been my primary goal.

The trouble with unwritten, de-facto standards in software is that one never knows which incidental or undocumented features other software might depend on. So the only way to not break things then is to never change anything.

I would say it all depends on what one is aiming for, and I completely understand your point of view, as well.

ETA: This was in reply to face_off. I only read PhilC's post after submitting. I agree, though. It should not be too hard to make a PoserPhysics-compliant clone, and Antonia's licensing means nothing would keep you from distributing it.

Thanks for both your responses.

I've been able to get around the hip/waist issue.  The head bone direction is still an issue, but Phil's suggestion gets around it neatly.

For future reference (once PoserPhysics2012 is released), to make Antonia work under PoserPhysics, do the following:

1. Load Antonia

2. Enter the setup room - rotate the head bone straight up, exit the setup room, save the scene, reload the scene.  (NOTE: You always need to save and reload the scene after going into the setup room for PoserPhysics to pick up the setup room changes).

3. Run PoserPhysics and simulate the scene.  You will then want to the tweak the settings - select Antonia's Body actor and reduce the PoserPhysics-BoneWidth to about 1'ish to stop her legs spreading so much.

4. Save the figure as a new character in your library (AntoniaPP)

Thanks Phil for the suggestion.

Where's everyone go?  Will it be any update to Antonia?

Still watching this thread but not very active right now.

Trying to get one project finished but it's not easy having Hospice nurse and bath lady in twice a week for Mom.  Plus company (family) in on weekends to visit Mom as her time is very short. The cancer is moving fast now and she is getting weaker each day.

I'll pop in here again when I'm able.

BluEcho, I know from experience what a grinding, stressful time this can be. Take care of yourself.

Quote - Still watching this thread but not very active right now.

Trying to get one project finished but it's not easy having Hospice nurse and bath lady in twice a week for Mom.  Plus company (family) in on weekends to visit Mom as her time is very short. The cancer is moving fast now and she is getting weaker each day.

I'll pop in here again when I'm able.

Maybe not the right place but I feel for you. Lost my dad in 2009 and and after taking care of my dying mom taken with mesothelioma, 7 months later she finally succumed to it. It was a nightmare having to take care of the poor dear for those seven months and we put off taking her to the hospice until a week and a half before she died. A week after she died on my fathers birthday, his brother diled exactly 7 days after and almost to the same hour. Suffice it to say 2009 and 2010 were 8 months of hell I will never forget.

It is painful seeing those you love die and more painful when you are responsible for their comfort and courage as time approaches. Day in and day out seeing them slowly succumbing to their fate and feeling more and more helpless. I was devistated and just barely out from under the depression and anxiety even now.

God bless you and hope you a quick recovery from your death vigil over your dear mother and may God grant her peace.

BluEcho, I've been through that with a wife, and might be going through it again with my fiancee'.  If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

BluEcho, sorry to hear that, take care!

@face_off: If I used animations I'd be saving pennies for PoserPhysics.

I just clicked your link and checked it out, Wow! Looks great.

Is there a guesstimate as to when Poser Physics 2012 will be available?

I hope that Smith Micro has at least a discount for those of us who own the older version.

Here's a little file for those of you, who like me, keep having problems with Poser re-setting the toecap and invisible settings so there is a ring around Antonia's feet in renders.

This file makes them stay invisible...lol.

http://www.bluecho4u3d.com/Antonia/file_upload/Poses/ToecapTransmap/ToecapTransmap_File_1.zip.

It doesn't have my usual BE4 folder settings so just unzip it where ever you want. :)

I just found some new expresssions for Antonia.  http://www.sharecg.com/v/63485/browse/11/Poser/98-Expressions-for-Antonia-Standard

Neat! I wonder if those are all completely new morphs or partially based on the ones that ship with Antonia.

Does anyone know the creator? They also have an interesting morph set for Antonia.

Many thanks for the heads-up, amy_aimei!, and ODF of course for reminding me to look what more was there form same artist. 

Just downloaded the two sets, and will try them (my) tonight.

They are listed as for Antonia Standard, but I expect they work for the WM version also. 

i just did a quick test & they seem to work ok on APWM.  especially nice to have some expressions (my own tries have been dismal).