Quote - What I want a seperate male and female figure, a seperate male & female young teen and a seperate male & female small child - yep, I want the Gen 3 figure set. That was much more useful to me than the Gen4 - everyone became "1 size fits all - every one the same size."

Agreed.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - What I want a seperate male and female figure, a seperate male & female young teen and a seperate male & female small child - yep, I want the Gen 3 figure set. That was much more useful to me than the Gen4 - everyone became "1 size fits all - every one the same size."

Agreed.

Laurie

Agreed here as well weight mapped and conforming.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - What I want a seperate male and female figure, a seperate male & female young teen and a seperate male & female small child - yep, I want the Gen 3 figure set. That was much more useful to me than the Gen4 - everyone became "1 size fits all - every one the same size."

Agreed.

Laurie

Agreed here as well weight mapped and conforming.

Yeah, that's what my instinct is for... sure, maybe I just feel left out for effectively coming to the party too late and missing the boat on the Gen3 figs.

Well, I've got the MilBaby3... just trying now to figure out how to make it look like a baby :scared:

Did anyone ever crack that one? :lol:

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - What I want a seperate male and female figure, a seperate male & female young teen and a seperate male & female small child - yep, I want the Gen 3 figure set. That was much more useful to me than the Gen4 - everyone became "1 size fits all - every one the same size."

Agreed.

Laurie

Agreed here as well weight mapped and conforming.

Yeah, that's what my instinct is for... sure, maybe I just feel left out for effectively coming to the party too late and missing the boat on the Gen3 figs.

Well, I've got the MilBaby3... just trying now to figure out how to make it look like a baby :scared:

Did anyone ever crack that one? :lol:

ROFL, no.  No one ever cracked that one......Baby Jimmy came close, but he's not in the marketplace any longer.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/baby-jimmy/22367

Baby Jimmy gone! Noooooo.... I had him wishlisted as well... oh well.

Better crack on with learning ZBrush while I still have a live reference model of the correct age readily to hand... and make myself a decent baby character then.

There are the cubed babies jenny and dylan, based on poser figures. They don't come cheap though...

http://www.cubed.ie/cgi-bin/db_detail.pl?ProductID=10332-4&Master=10332-4&ProductType=Poser 5

Quote - There are the cubed babies jenny and dylan, based on poser figures. They don't come cheap though...

http://www.cubed.ie/cgi-bin/db_detail.pl?ProductID=10332-4&Master=10332-4&ProductType=Poser 5

Not ridiculously expensive by the same token I guess though either... they look to be standalone figures? Look pretty okay to me, less scary looking than the default MilBaby3 I'd say. LOL :lol:

basicwiz has moved this thread from the Trash Bin aka Mount Doom forum to the Poser forum as of Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:34 am.

It has been unlocked. Please do not force me to lock it again. Messages not relating to the OP's question will be deleted.

Ok, what price would someone would pay for this new mainstream figure?

1. Go more expensive with more options?

2. Less expensive but having to add more things later.

3. Your view.

I have seen quite a few characters that have come out and checked their price to be surprised to say the least. During the current financial market, people are double checking things before going for them. I know I am.

All the best.

LROG

Well I don't have a job right now so I wouldn't be spending any money since I couldn't afford it, but if I was getting paid I'd pay a premium for something really great and complete. I wouldn't pay the 100$+ for a character because poser is a hobbiest tool which I expect to pay hobbiest prices for. But the more complete something is, the better because my starting point gives me more options and that would give the character gallery more diversity instead of 500 renders from 500 people using the exact same outfit/hair/props.

I know I have a price limit for certain things and no matter how good it is, that's the limit.

There is at least one character I'm after, but currently it is over this limit. Now if there was a sale and it came into my price bracket I would get it.

So, as said, most of us are hobbiests, but that's not to put aside those that go on to make amazing characters. I know how long it takes, and I also know that if they worked on a hourly basis, no one would be able to afford the cost.

It's interesting to hear from both sides. The user that has to think about the cost and the PA that has to make the money to live etc. Sometimes it's a very BIG balancing process.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - I know I have a price limit for certain things and no matter how good it is, that's the limit.

There is at least one character I'm after, but currently it is over this limit. Now if there was a sale and it came into my price bracket I would get it.

So, as said, most of us are hobbiests, but that's not to put aside those that go on to make amazing characters. I know how long it takes, and I also know that if they worked on a hourly basis, no one would be able to afford the cost.

It's interesting to hear from both sides. The user that has to think about the cost and the PA that has to make the money to live etc. Sometimes it's a very BIG balancing process.

All the best.

LROG

I don't have a set budget.  I base my willingness to purchase on value.

I've spent well over $100.00 on character bundles which included the character, a texture or two, morphs and an outfit.

And out of that list which would you say is the more important thing to you after the basic charcter?

Would a basic character that came with say 5 outfits be more of clincher than say a basic character that came with morphs and a single outfit?

Normally I go for the more bang for you buck syndrome, checking a bundle to see if there is 90% of what I can use.

Sure enough there will be the odd item in the pack that you are not too bothered about, but if it's a good price then I normally go for it.

Things like this are more of interest to teh PA's I know, but users also see value for money.

All the best.

LROG

My set budget is whatever $ I have available once necessities are taken care of. If I can afford it, I will spend more on something that I know I can get plenty of use out of. I bought way too much in the beginning that I only used maybe once if at all, and I still have things sitting unistalled after years. That I won't do anymore.

Quote - I bought way too much in the beginning that I only used maybe once if at all, and I still have things sitting unistalled after years. That I won't do anymore.

I thought I was the only one who did that!!!!!

Good point there about unused things.

We all have these things, so, what about the adaptables for our mythical figure.

I know a good long dress with sleeves and loads of mat zones, along with a bodysuit with loads of mat zones can be used for so many clothing items.

Change the long sleeves to invisible and you have short sleeves, do the same on the bodysuit and take off the hips down section and you have a TShirt etc.

Are adaptable things like this more of a buying ideal when the character launches?

All the best.

LROG

I have stuff from probably 4 or 5 years ago still sitting. I had a bad habit of seeing things on sale (especially the big sales at Daz) and assuming I'd probably need them at some point....still waiting to need some of them lol.

Quote - I have stuff from probably 4 or 5 years ago still sitting. I had a bad habit of seeing things on sale (especially the big sales at Daz) and assuming I'd probably need them at some point....still waiting to need some of them lol.

I've finally learned... that sort of stuff goes on my wishlist... not in my runtime. Of course, what happens is, when I finally DO need it, it has been withdrawn! ROFL

I think the bodysuit & dress idea would be great. Especially with a talented texture artist on board with sets ready when/if the figure launches. Besides being able to change what type of clothing it is (shirt, dress, etc.) it's also a good thing whether you're more into the fantasy type stuff, every day, or even for the mini dress lovers. Use the bodysuit for your superheros or your deep sea divers lol. Use the dress for your faes, vampires, funerals, etc. lol. You'd most likely reach more potential buyers with more versatile pieces like this.

Quote - > Quote - I have stuff from probably 4 or 5 years ago still sitting. I had a bad habit of seeing things on sale (especially the big sales at Daz) and assuming I'd probably need them at some point....still waiting to need some of them lol.

I've finally learned... that sort of stuff goes on my wishlist... not in my runtime. Of course, what happens is, when I finally DO need it, it has been withdrawn! ROFL

Ahhhh yes. I've been on that end too! Or I finally pass up on a sale when I think of how many things I already bought just because they were on sale. Then a week later I do need the damn thing for something.

Quote - And out of that list which would you say is the more important thing to you after the basic charcter?

Would a basic character that came with say 5 outfits be more of clincher than say a basic character that came with morphs and a single outfit?

Normally I go for the more bang for you buck syndrome, checking a bundle to see if there is 90% of what I can use.

Sure enough there will be the odd item in the pack that you are not too bothered about, but if it's a good price then I normally go for it.

Things like this are more of interest to teh PA's I know, but users also see value for money.

All the best.

LROG

As long as the bundle has the base requirements (figure, morphs, etc.) I can buy addons later.  I'd like to have some clothing so I can render more than nudes.

Ok, I will throw in an example of a bodysuit that I think would work great with any character. Don't think of the character, look at the mat zones of the suit.

Obviously this is for a female, but a male version could be done as well.

LINK

Now something like this grabs my attention as I can see so many possibilities by just looking at the zones.

Normal, fantasy, space etc. Imagination is really only your limitation.

A dress with similar zones could again be used for so many things. Now lets's not get into horrible remarks about styles of dress. Lets just call them items of mall material area, so much nicer.

Now, you could make whatever style you required with just 2 items. Now if they added on bootshow option for the bodysuit, then YIPPEEEE!!!!! I'm buying that type of thing.

As you all can see, it doesn't take much in clothing to get me excited, I'm more interested in the mat zones and what I can do with them.

So, a little please from me to PA's when doing promos, not only can you do a untextured version, couldd you also do a materialo zone promo with basic colours to chow what we can do with it. Just a little thing, but it could mean the difference between a sale and a pass by.

All the best.

LROG

I'd like to have some clothing so I can render more than nudes.
 So agaree with this, even if it's a small amount of clothing is better than none.

Anyway, I'm going to let others bring in their opinions now as I've wittered on enough.

Bring in your thoughts, ideas, requirements etc. Some may or may not agree with them. but unless you voice those opinions you never know what could happen.

PA's do watch threads like this to pick up ideas of what people want.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - Ok, I will throw in an example of a bodysuit that I think would work great with any character. Don't think of the character, look at the mat zones of the suit.

Obviously this is for a female, but a male version could be done as well.

LINK

Now something like this grabs my attention as I can see so many possibilities by just looking at the zones.

Normal, fantasy, space etc. Imagination is really only your limitation.

A dress with similar zones could again be used for so many things. Now lets's not get into horrible remarks about styles of dress. Lets just call them items of mall material area, so much nicer.

Now, you could make whatever style you required with just 2 items. Now if they added on bootshow option for the bodysuit, then YIPPEEEE!!!!! I'm buying that type of thing.

As you all can see, it doesn't take much in clothing to get me excited, I'm more interested in the mat zones and what I can do with them.

So, a little please from me to PA's when doing promos, not only can you do a untextured version, couldd you also do a materialo zone promo with basic colours to chow what we can do with it. Just a little thing, but it could mean the difference between a sale and a pass by.

All the best.

LROG

The down side to all those material zones, however, is that if you're using procedural shaders, there's a LOT of work involved in texturing something like this.

There really should be some kind of trade off with too many material zones that makes procedural texturing too cumbersome to be reasonable.

Quote - By the same token, it seems perhaps naive of vendors to think that regurgitating infinite variations on a theme of the same sort of V4 stuff can last forever?

 

I have always felt that THIS is what drove the development of the golum.  A couple of years ago I was asking vendors the following question:

There are thousands of hookerware oufits for V4.  Why should I buy yours?

Too much of what is coming out for the golum is just a rehash of what was made for V4.  If you use Autofit in DS4 or Wardrobe Wizard in Poser or Xdresser - the need to buy clothing can be massively reduced.  The fact that vendors never got around to making clothing for non-DAZ characters never bothered me.  If I saw an outfit I liked, I'd buy it, run it through WW & voila - Sydney, Anastasia, Antonia & Miki have an extensive wardrobe.  Since a decent business suit never came out for M4, I converted the Casablanc Suit & I was good to go.

Vendors by and large are very, very risk-adverse.  They are aggressively uninterested in doing proper market reasearch and finding out what the customer base wants.  They operate on a "If I make it, they will buy" philosophy and as long as they do, they will not make as much as they possibly could.

A bodysuit like that would be very useful.

About the vendors being "risk-adverse".....I'm sure there are some vendors like that, but besides that, even though a lot of them are trying to do 3D as a living, this is still more like art unlike your every day 9-5. So I think it's much easier to do more of the type of things you're personally interested in rather than doing things others are looking for that you could care less about. But, as you said they may not be making as much money as they potentially could either.

I'm one of those that say, give me more material zones!!! Lol.

It's easier to have more and take them out, than have too little and not be able to do what I want.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - A bodysuit like that would be very useful.

 

About the vendors being "risk-adverse".....I'm sure there are some vendors like that, but besides that, even though a lot of them are trying to do 3D as a living, this is still more like art unlike your every day 9-5. So I think it's much easier to do more of the type of things you're personally interested in rather than doing things others are looking for that you could care less about. But, as you said they may not be making as much money as they potentially could either.

If you are doing it for a living, you have to market research.

I know that in the wargaming world, game publishers don't develop a game until they have enough committed buyers to make a profit.

They will go into a forum or email their customer base and they will give a paragraph spurge on what the game covers, rules system, combat scale etc.

Maybe some vendors should look into something like this.

If you want to make as much $ as possible, yes you should do research on what people want and will actually buy, and not just wishlist.

I would pay a much higher price than I do at present for content with one major but, I have to be sure that I am buying something that is better or can do more than what is in my runtime already.

Poser 2012 was a case in point, before a paid any money I had seen many of the new features and what they could do thanks to the renders uploaded to RDNA and also read the veiws of those using it for beta teasting.

I have yet to buy any new figure since V4 because I have seen nothing that shows it gives me added value.  I use V4WM extensively and would have been happy to pay for it and the outfitter program.

What would I like in a new figure the ability to make an everyday person who is reaonably attractive.  I am into Sci-Fi and would like some such outfits but I realise this has to make money to to justify the time so I will settle for a figure that can be morphed into an everyday figure.  A good bodysuit would be an idea as I could work with that.  Finally I want to be able to change the face so that it does not look like every other character using the same figure.  Finally the ability to accept realistic expressions would be another plus.

I have achived most of this with V4, at least to a level I am happy with, the figure in real life would be close to 5 foot, slim build and small chested.  She is so built as I wanted somethign different from the normal Poser heroine. I think the character is a little different to the norm facially but her V4 origins are clear and expressions are difficult.  She is also in her sixth re-incarnation.  A new figure that would give me this and with a slightly less hassle would be top of my list of purchases.

Quote - This question may be self explanatory...

What would Non-DAZ figure need to become poserdom mainstream?

Come with Poser?
Be heavily promotoed by SM?

What else comes to mind?

I have thought long and hard about this since reading all the pages early this morning and a new character for me is not that important as I have enough characters to last a lifetime.

However, for someone new to Poser I think the character would need to be:

1. Unrealistically symmetrically pretty out of the box. Most people seem to like to render attractive super model type of characters.

2. Lots of morphs that can then make this character more realistic or fantasy-like.

3. Plenty of high quality clothing in all sorts of styles from fantasy to futuristic, both commercial and free.

4. Lots of character textures which can also change the style of the character.

5. Lots of pose and expression sets to make posing easier for a newcomer.

6. Weight mapped to take advantage of Poser's more advanced features. Someone mentioned earlier that people with older versions of Poser probably do not spend that much on content anyway and I think this is probably true.

7. The character should ideally be very easy to make clothing for so good quality clothing can be produced quickly and easily at a good price.

8. A family of characters - the one mesh fits all does not seem to work. A well designed human mesh which fits one gender would get me more interested and may even make me add to my character collection.

9. I don't think this character would have to come with Poser but it would have to be very heavily hyped and marketed both before and after its release. The more people on board with the marketing the better. It could be SM, all of the big stores and the 3D magazines. Basically I think the whole world would have to know and not just happen to come across it on the SM website. The marketing would have to persist for a long time to keep up people's interest.

10. Withdrawing all other figures from the market would also guarantee success! hehehe Only kidding here because, of course, that would not be desirable. Freedom of choice is good so the character would have to be better than all of those already available whether that is in support or in design - preferably both.

11. I think the first human would have to be a female adult if a whole family cannot be released at the same time.

Just my opinion but all other opinions are equally valid.

Lots of good comments there Jan!!!

All the best.

LROG

On the clothing issue.

I too bought way more than I'll likely ever use.

I have bought stuff that looked good, but didn't bend, fit, have enough mesh details or material zones to be of any use. I bought stuff and found out who I like and who I don't. Something has to fantastic or really cheap for me to try new vendors now. And even fantastic, I'll look for a freebie from that vendor to try out before I buy.

 So it's not just having the right clothes, it's having the right vendors clothes in the right styles. The quality gap is too huge between what is out there, to guess at buying now, and price seems to be no indicator of quality.

 Making a figure for a newbie is not gonna cut it in my opinion. Yes it has to be simple to use, but seeing renders from people way more talented than me was more of a selling feature when I started (wrong as that was). I also think what was good for a newbie before is not necessary good now. I think people know more and expect more.

Agree, it takes a lot more now to give me the "WOW" factor I used to get when I first started out.

All the best.

LROG

While I agree that 'one mesh fits all' approach is not necesarrily the right way to go.  I think a figure 'family' designed to a certain extent to 'cross fit' easily would be a good way to go.  I'm entirely sure what goes into making crossfitting easier or harder, but I imagine there are factors like the grouping and rigging that could be done very similar to make things smoother, and to allow auto refit tools to come up with better results.

Quote - > Quote - This question may be self explanatory...

What would Non-DAZ figure need to become poserdom mainstream?

Come with Poser?
Be heavily promotoed by SM?

What else comes to mind?

I have thought long and hard about this since reading all the pages early this morning and a new character for me is not that important as I have enough characters to last a lifetime.

However, for someone new to Poser I think the character would need to be:

1. Unrealistically symmetrically pretty out of the box. Most people seem to like to render attractive super model type of characters.

2. Lots of morphs that can then make this character more realistic or fantasy-like.

3. Plenty of high quality clothing in all sorts of styles from fantasy to futuristic, both commercial and free.

4. Lots of character textures which can also change the style of the character.

5. Lots of pose and expression sets to make posing easier for a newcomer.

6. Weight mapped to take advantage of Poser's more advanced features. Someone mentioned earlier that people with older versions of Poser probably do not spend that much on content anyway and I think this is probably true.

7. The character should ideally be very easy to make clothing for so good quality clothing can be produced quickly and easily at a good price.

8. A family of characters - the one mesh fits all does not seem to work. A well designed human mesh which fits one gender would get me more interested and may even make me add to my character collection.

9. I don't think this character would have to come with Poser but it would have to be very heavily hyped and marketed both before and after its release. The more people on board with the marketing the better. It could be SM, all of the big stores and the 3D magazines. Basically I think the whole world would have to know and not just happen to come across it on the SM website. The marketing would have to persist for a long time to keep up people's interest.

10. Withdrawing all other figures from the market would also guarantee success! hehehe Only kidding here because, of course, that would not be desirable. Freedom of choice is good so the character would have to be better than all of those already available whether that is in support or in design - preferably both.

11. I think the first human would have to be a female adult if a whole family cannot be released at the same time.

Just my opinion but all other opinions are equally valid.

Years ago, I thought about having a 'Dream Team' figure for charity. Modeled & rigged by whoever was, hair by Koz, skin textures by Catharina etc. Hire the best people, give them some direction while still allowing them creative latitude, give them a financial incentive and an artistic/technical challenge. Manage the project. The participant's reputations will help tremendously. Even then, beyond a couple of names I couldn't say who does the best of this or that so as always, ad nauseum, market it.

There probably hasn't been more than one or two radically new, ideas mentioned here if that. It's all been done before. DAZ just happened to do enough things right at the right time when there wasn't much more than Posette. The environment has changed greatly but some fundamentals aren't much different than when some guy was selling stone fertility goddeses. There is more than enough talent here, it just needs to be coordinated toward a common goal. All of the gurus need to get together draft something resembling a plan and present it to Mr. Cooper or whover. If you think SM's plans will do the trick, sit back and wait for it to bear fruit. Otherwise, get together and find find a backer. At a minimum, have a program manager and a marketing person.

This is a small, rather quirky market and it is in a state of unprecedented flux. Yeah, some of that upstart, Open Sauce, guerilla stuff may be of value but what is needed now IMO, is a sense of unity, stability and some assurance that whatever comes out won't be gone tomorrow. That requires real organization. No one wants to invest in something where in a few weeks they're gonna be asking 'whats up with X?'

Quote - 1. Unrealistically symmetrically pretty out of the box. Most people seem to like to render attractive super model type of characters.

If the face / body in the ad / thumbnail is supposed to be attactive but is not, I never look at it.  If it is supposed to be hideous, like a zombie, and it is too pretty, I never look at it, either - it better look like it is supposed to right out of the box.  Then, if I want to, . . .

Quote - 2. Lots of morphs that can then make this character more realistic or fantasy-like. 4. Lots of character textures which can also change the style of the character.

Once I like the promo and can do w/e with it, these should go together:

Quote - 3. Plenty of high quality clothing in all sorts of styles from fantasy to futuristic, both commercial and free. 5. Lots of pose and expression sets to make posing easier for a newcomer.

If the clothing has morphs / poses of its own, please include figure poses to go with them.  Example:  If a jacket actually unzips, I want a hand-on-zipper pose in the box.

Quote - 8. A family of characters - the one mesh fits all does not seem to work. A well designed human mesh which fits one gender would get me more interested and may even make me add to my character collection. 11. I think the first human would have to be a female adult if a whole family cannot be released at the same time.

I take these to literally mean something like Don, Judy, Penny, and Will.  If so, that would be 1) good in the end but 2) four new figures to support unless they came bundled at a good price.

They should hire Francisco Cortina for the base mesh...

Quote - > Quote - At this time, what it would take is more money in people's pockets. I doubt there will be much movement until that happens. I could be wrong.

If what I hear is correct, both Poser and DAZ as companies got started as guys finishing college and art schools getting together and turning their final school projects into a business.

Funding for thngs can sometimes be found in very unexpected places, if one thinks to look outside of the box.

Sorry to come back in so late. My comment is from a customer standpoint. The economy is tough, so a lot of people can't afford a new character and a new wardrobe started from scratch. Hence a lot of Vicki morphs and clothes in the marketplace, and lots of sales and coupons.

You do have a point about Poser and Daz, however. The modern model railroad industry was started by a bunch of guys working in their basements and garages during the depression. Many of the larger companies today started that way. So I could be wrong. This could be just the time to go for something bold. I suspect that in this economy, however, no one is going to get rich off this right away.

Quote - > Quote - I have stuff from probably 4 or 5 years ago still sitting. I had a bad habit of seeing things on sale (especially the big sales at Daz) and assuming I'd probably need them at some point....still waiting to need some of them lol.

I've finally learned... that sort of stuff goes on my wishlist... not in my runtime. Of course, what happens is, when I finally DO need it, it has been withdrawn! ROFL

This is exactly what has happened with me and poor Baby Jimmy :lol:

Quote - What would Non-DAZ figure need to become mainstream?

That's easy, just do what DAZ did, and 'brainwash' the community, that way they'd even sleep with the devil himself to use your figure, but you'd have to get rid of DAZ first and take over the 'conditioning' where they left off.

would I need a laser and a lair?

I never had the nerve to try this on a brain.. :lol:

what does animated joints mean?  i'v see that phrase a few times.

my ideal mainstream figure would look natural on a bookcover with minimal (or none) postwork.  natural in many different poses, even arms down poses.

whenever i start theorizing on a new male figure, he turns into a sex doll, with plenty of glute morphs.  that's like - so wrong, is it?

Hey... It's what you want. I don't see a problem here! 

Quote - Hey... It's what you want. I don't see a problem here! 

thanks.  you inspired me to get some work started   - :)

how many mat zones do you think would be too many? 

like predefined areas for lipliner, eyeliner? 

peeks in MAT zones for eyeliner or lipliner might be rough, since it ends up being very different shapes and you'd want to keep naturalistic fades around the edges (which mat zones can't do on their own). One of the biggest kicks in the face to realism is hard MAT zone edges on organic forms; we don't have those on us. ;) If you look at closeups of eyes, lips, etc. on people, you'll see a tiny fade from one region of color to the next. Without that, things start to look more doll-like and less natural. Bear in mind I say all of this as something of a UV nitpicker of doom and someone who lurves a ton of MAT zones to tinker with, too. ;)

You could arguably get a similar effect to what I think you're hoping for with alpha masks and blender nodes for a much broader range of styles, but that would require one of the python scripting geniuses to code something up to swap them around with the way the materials presently work. And you'd want the scripting... I've been picking at a project like this in just the material room to try to arrange something that's versatile and swappable without being too confusing for the end user, and keep tabling it since it's quite tricksy. (It is, ironically, deliberately doll-like. ;) )

I know I would be voting for an eyebrow zone, on a separate plane. Possibly a doubled plane to allow for good visual depth. :) I also have a slight case of 'missing it, could be useful' for the pubic hair plane on V3. Also a fan of the eye surface. Those tend to be handy ones, but they require the geometry to back them up, and some folks seem to keep wanting to kill off those bits of (IMHO quite useful) geometry.

I wonder how much thought has gone in to doing eyebrows as conforming figures.

I would venture to say a good bit. I know there's a set of them for the G* at least, and was one of the first products released for it. Similarly, when V4 was released without them, a product of this kind was made very quickly.

From a character creator's standpoint, it is considerably easier to have them part of the base mesh. That way, when creating custom head morphs (at least in Modo and Zbrush), the brows are morphed along with the head without gapping or unrealistic space between the face geometry and brow geometry, leading to a minimum of distortion. Trying to match a conformer as a completely separate piece is a considerable extra investment of time and effort, and rarely (IMHO) yields results equal in quality.