Quote - > Quote - But, see, the "beginners need all the stuff" fails for one simple reason - those beginners use FREEBIES.  They don't shell out good money for quality products.  They stick to freebies until they decide whether or not they even want to keep the software installed.

And, DS loses the "beginner" war simply on the basis that there is no documentation.  Just try something for me.......go download a free piece of software you know nothing about and install it.

Then, try to run that software without any documentation.

You know what happens next - Control Panel>Remove Programs

Agree.  I'm just speaking as someone who remembers my venture into this.  The path I followed was simple - I downloaded the software, downloaded what DAZ gave me for free, joined the Plat Club and didn't spend more than $30.00 at a time for nearly a year. 

Then, when I wanted to get serious, I had to move to Poser because of the superior rigging, animating, and dynamics. 

 

And I am just the opposite. I started with 3DSMax, used other modeling apps and renderers, then discovered poser 5, then 6, then 7 and now have 2012 pro, yet I prefer doing my rendering in Luxrender most of the time, so I started using DS and now with DS4 pro and genesis, use it for most of my workflow as it is very versitile and saves time. I still use poser for dynamics and other uses, but I find DS4 pro to be the most beneficial for my scene setup workflow.

I am with joe pubilc, I would totally love to have the versatility of genesis in poser, but I find creating a custom morph for a figure in poser and then having to re rig clothing to fit it and include a morph for the custom figure to be way to time consuming when I can do this on the fly in DS4 pro.

I could care less for documentation, I learn everything by doing, so that is not a deal breaker for me.

Quote - And I am just the opposite. I started with 3DSMax, used other modeling apps and renderers, then discovered poser 5, then 6, then 7 and now have 2012 pro, yet I prefer doing my rendering in Luxrender most of the time, so I started using DS and now with DS4 pro and genesis, use it for most of my workflow as it is very versitile and saves time. I still use poser for dynamics and other uses, but I find DS4 pro to be the most beneficial for my scene setup workflow.  

I am with joe pubilc, I would totally love to have the versatility of genesis in poser, but I find creating a custom morph for a figure in poser and then having to re rig clothing to fit it and include a morph for the custom figure to be way to time consuming when I can do this on the fly in DS4 pro.

I could care less for documentation, I learn everything by doing, so that is not a deal breaker for me.

This thread is NOT a debate about Genesis vs. Poser.

Did you offer anything in your post in relation to the original post?

Let me repeat:

What would Non-DAZ figure need to become mainstream?

See, it has nothing to do with GENESIS or DS.

Quote - > Quote - The thread is for NON-DAZ figures. Why bring up genesis again and again. it DOES NOT WORK in Poser. And working in Poser is all what this thread is about

Genesis does work in Poser with some work, but the clothing doesn't work well.

There really needs to be a mesh built from scratch for weightmapping; of course, that then shuts out the legacy market.  Some of the G-like features should be incorporated, but will animated joint centers work with conforming clothes?

Clothing does not work as soon as you use one of the scaling features. Poser does support animated joints, they just haven't been implemented in the exporter for whatever reason.

So unless you want to render nude figures in low resolution, it does not work as a poser figure. But this is a discussion which should be in another thread.

Yep, I know  what a bench mark is and please go tell that to a certain site that has been messed up now for nearly a month.

No need to argue with those that cannot grasp the OP's question.

I work in Poser, and so, things have to work in Poser, simple as that.

It would be interesting for a group of like minded people got together and worked on this as a project.

By that I mean riggers. mesh makers, material artists, content makers etc.

Once you get the poeple together, the ideas just seem to flow.

Get the beta testers in etc.

At the moment I'm more interested in those that want to go forward with fresh ideas.

All the best.

LROG

"By that I mean riggers. mesh makers, material artists, content makers etc."

Brilliant idea.

Now, please tell me where to actually find those people talented and experienced enough to create a truly mainstream Poser figure.(And how to pay them ?)

And don't forget we not just need a hot chick, but a complete family with men, teens, preteens, toddlers, babys, tons of realistic morphs and textures, 10 years worth of clothing for all, hair and lots and lots of other stuff.

Because people WILL COMPARE POSER WITH GENESIS like they compare every product with its competitors.

And if they don't like what they see, thy will just vote with their feet.

Can you truly not see how ridiculous your "can do" grassroots approach is ?

DAZ could have just thumbed their noses at us, but they OFFERED us Genesis. WITHOUT any compensation that I know of.

(Unlike Poser's previous owners who wanted big $$$ for adding Vicky and Mike to the face-room)

Poser has to adapt or fade away.

There is no other way.

Maybe in a couple of years we can try to break free from DAZ with our own set of figures, but not now.

FINAL WARNING

It is time to return this thread to the OP's question, or it will be locked.

Discussions of Genesis are fine insofar as a discussion of features, behaviors, etc go.

Discussions of Daz vs Poser are devisive and serve NO PURPOSE AT ALL in this forum at this point in time. Posting "Daz is better" or "Poser is better" posts derails the threads and does little other than start fights.

There's 'way too much testosterone in this thread, and I'm going to lock it after the next post that appears to be baiting.

Return to the OP's question and leave all the superiority crap behind.

FINAL WARNING

People have come together before without payment.

The other parts I have no interest in as it's not about what the original poster asked.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - People have come together before without payment.

The other parts I have no interest in as it's not about what the original poster asked.

All the best.

LROG

That arrangement is standard in this industry.  Just look at the V4 release where they had the Complete, Pro and individual packages.  The ONLY thing produced by DAZ was V4.  All the rest was produced for a complete package at release by vendors. 

Success based on the DAZ model is nothing more than an assembled TEAM and marketing, marketing, marketing.

I guess I need to ask this again more explictly; There really needs to be a mesh built from scratch for weightmapping; of course, that then shuts out the legacy market. The question is, if a sutable one doesn't exist, who is going to develop it? It's a lot of work to do just for Love.

Also, for more realistic bending of some joints, as well as to incorporate some of the features found in TFWDMH (That Figure We Don't Mention Here)  animated joint centers will be required.  Will animated joint centers work with conforming clothes; that is, can can the joint centers be made superconforming?  They currently aren't with clothes for TFWDMH in Poser; is this a limitation of the exporter, or is this a feature missing from Poser?

Quote - This question may be self explanatory...

What would Non-DAZ figure need to become poserdom mainstream?

Come with Poser?
Be heavily promotoed by SM?

What else comes to mind?

(other then genitals... :P)

I think mainstream would at least mean it would get a lot of vendor support. If i were vendor i would try to support as many poser users as possible. This in turn means i would want to support the lowest common denominator my customers have and that would mean the figure should work in Poser-Debut. This would limit the technical details somewhat i guess (no weightmapping, gamma correction, etc), but even a V4 style figure could be improved, for example by adding some helper bones for face and hand posing and some more like JCMs.

Quote - I guess I need to ask this again more explictly; There really needs to be a mesh built from scratch for weightmapping; of course, that then shuts out the legacy market. The question is, if a sutable one doesn't exist, who is going to develop it? It's a lot of work to do just for Love.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this should be undertaken for "love."  The whole point is to sell a figure that will be as popular and useful as the Gen4 figures.  The next generation of Poser figures.  For sale.

Quote - Also, for more realistic bending of some joints, as well as to incorporate some of the features found in TFWDMH (That Figure We Don't Mention Here)  animated joint centers will be required.  Will animated joint centers work with conforming clothes; that is, can can the joint centers be made superconforming?  They currently aren't with clothes for TFWDMH in Poser; is this a limitation of the exporter, or is this a feature missing from Poser?

Can't answer this part for you......sorry.

This was discussed here before, but there really are only 2 things that can make or break a new figure.

One is the versitility of the figure to achieve many different looks.

The second is vendor support. Without that it really doesnt matter how good the figure is, it will never have much use.

Right now, wether you are a poser user or a daz user is irrelevent, the current benchmark that shows how versitile a character can be is the genesis figure. It can do alot more than any previous figures could in this market.

But even if you choose to ignore this advancment, the next level of benchmark is m4/v4. So a new figure would have to be able to offer a versitility that m4 and v4 could not offer to the market. M4/v4 offered a ton of morphability, they were decently mapped, they were well rigged and quite versitile. So to begin in making a new figure with intent for a mainstream market you would have to think on how you can improve on that, so that you can meet the criteria of versitility.

Then you would need to add to that versitility by ensuring that it has a ton of supporting products, so that people can fill their library with all the extras they need to make it a usable figure (clothes, hair, morphs, poses, animations etc)

With the current tech in poser you can make some advancments, but wether it is enough to push the market away from m4/v4 is going to be very tough....and getting vendor support would be even harder, simply because making top quality products is a huge investment in time and if the new figure fails to achieve its goals...then they ahev lost all that time.  I know I have been there and lost big when apollo came out....so I know I would be hesitant to try that again.

Quote - This question may be self explanatory...

What would Non-DAZ figure need to become poserdom mainstream?

Come with Poser?
Be heavily promotoed by SM?

What else comes to mind?

(other then genitals... :P)

It has to be support I think. Lots of great stuff to use out of the box and knowing that more great stuff will be on the way.

Plenty of people don't want to struggle with converting clothes from other figures. I've spent hours converting V4 stuff to GNDA2 and now I look at the final renders and wonder why I didn't just use V4 in the first place and save myself the hassle?

"Come with Poser" - should work because you know everyone with Poser will have the figure to use, but that doesn't seem to've worked well so far.

Payment or not, the advantage of a team is that whatever one cannot do, others can.

Now that we are back on topic (love the TFWDMH bit! lol) it would be interesting to see how things wuld come about.

First of all, the mesh, no way could I make a mesh like that, perhaps in the future but not now, but I could at least give opinions on what it could look like.

At the moment, no one has really gone for male, female etc.

So, lets start with the mesh.

What would it be done in, poly size etc.

As thing come about, other options can be brought in to the discussion.

This could be a very interesting thing to watch.

All the best.

LROG

Back to the OP...

Any new figure just needs good content...

...step up.

I don't know... but surely, either you'll be jumping on a band wagon fuelled with some ready made hype...

...or you'll be carving a niche??

Potential win win...? Maybe...

What content does everyone want to see for any of these new figures??

;-)

Quote - > Quote - This question may be self explanatory...

What would Non-DAZ figure need to become poserdom mainstream?

Come with Poser?
Be heavily promotoed by SM?

What else comes to mind?

(other then genitals... :P)

I think mainstream would at least mean it would get a lot of vendor support. If i were vendor i would try to support as many poser users as possible. This in turn means i would want to support the lowest common denominator my customers have and that would mean the figure should work in Poser-Debut.

Yep, agreed, I think this is quite the common consensus here.

A figure designed to work in Poser, Vue, Blender, 3ds-max, and any other 3d-related application provides the best opportunity for vendor support and larger customer base.

Question for the modellers here:

Say I have a clothing mesh I made for V4. How hard is it to take that same mesh and resculpt it to Anastasia? Is it easier to start over from scratch?

You could run one of the convertor programs and see what that does.

There are 2 different things to start with, V4 is taller and also has a different start position for when you start making clothes.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - Question for the modellers here:

Say I have a clothing mesh I made for V4. How hard is it to take that same mesh and resculpt it to Anastasia? Is it easier to start over from scratch?

Not necessarily easier to start from scratch.  It really depends on how closely body shapes match.

I would probably save the basic, low poly dress and use that for a different model, rather than starting from scratch completely.

How easy/hard a conversion is can probably be compared to how well either of the conversion programs (Wardrobe Wizard/Crossdresser) work on a specific model for the base conversion (not including JCMs, etc.).

How many vendors now use Marvellous Designer for clothing?

Quote - With the current tech in poser you can make some advancments, but wether it is enough to push the market away from m4/v4 is going to be very tough....and getting vendor support would be even harder, simply because making top quality products is a huge investment in time and if the new figure fails to achieve its goals...then they ahev lost all that time.  I know I have been there and lost big when apollo came out....so I know I would be hesitant to try that again.

Apollo...I forgot about Apollo.  Good example of a good character, a good following, but maybe not marketed in the right places to grab attention and market share (he was alittle bit before I got started, but when I found him, I liked him!)  He was mainly word-of-mouth in forums and stuff, right? His own website?

Seems if he was dropped in RDNA, Renderosity and that "other store", at a very low price point (or free), with opportunity for vendors to make $$$ off of him, it would have had more success.  ...but again, not sure if that "other store" allows non-:m_shhh: human figures to be sold there?  Marketing is big...

Maybe he was considered competition to M4.

He was at a time when technologies had not diverged.

So now I think its:

1. Well-made, cross-platform, character
2. Marketing
3. Vendor support

(...cause if you hit #2, people buy, which then drives market to look for #3)

...thinking out loud...maybe that why SM is not going that new technology way, cause it is gving the character market away.  if they have another option (like WM) that is comparable, then they have a possibility of taking a large portion of the character market...?  never thought of it that way.

I quit reading about a third of the way into the second page.

For me, "mainstream" equals "human figure with the same options and potential as any other."  With all the morphs and such most any figure can accept, why buy more than V4 if she can be "mutated" into all of the versions currently available for sale?

Convenience.

The more convenient any product is, the more likely it will appeal to hobbyists generally, and the professionals would possibly also like the ease of using something they do not have to "fix" before they can "do something" with it.

If, for example, you were to make a new figure from scratch that can wear all of V4's clothes, that would be convenient for those who have a "closet" full of V4 stuff but want something really new and not just another (good) version of V4.  It would not need to be supported as a stand alone.

From what I did read, you are looking for something either to make (the figure) that others will help you to support, or you are looking for something already made that you can support well enough not to be wasting your time as a business.  Either way, I have no idea what specifically would work for you, but I would suggest considering something non-mainstream but still viable, such as accurate animals and their equipment.  Horses and riding gear, battle critters and their armor, fish and their tanks with treasure chests, etc.

This would risk your efforts being a fad but, unless something were requested by a lot of people before it was made, everything starts out as a fad - the "mainstream" are the ones that last.

Quote - I quit reading about a third of the way into the second page.

LOL!

Quote - If, for example, you were to make a new figure from scratch that can wear all of V4's clothes, that would be convenient for those who have a "closet" full of V4 stuff but want something really new and not just another (good) version of V4.  It would not need to be supported as a stand alone.

That's an interesting idea...if you had a new WM character with same proportioins, but perhaps different joint locations, and used the WM's for bending, would that work?

Then vendors can make clothes for it, and those clothes are backwards compatible to WM V4? 

interesting...

Quote - How many vendors now use Marvellous Designer for clothing?

Not I.

I bought it way back when, but support is way too slow in coming, the learning curve is quite steep, and there's no payoff in the end if you don't shell out $700.00+ for a commercial license.

When I lost my hard drive, I didn't even bother with the annoying "please, oh master, send me a new serial number so I can use the software I paid for" routine.

Quote - Say I have a clothing mesh I made for V4. How hard is it to take that same mesh and resculpt it to Anastasia? Is it easier to start over from scratch?

The reason I asked was simple. 

If I have created a new character and want clothing for it, I would send said character (several months before release) to the modeler who made the original clothing. They have the mesh to start with. Perhaps they might want to make more money off of work they have already done?

Another gambit I might consider would be to look through the marketplace and see which vendors don't have a lot of products, but those they do have are of good quality. I would think they might be candidates to try something different and see if they could make some money.

But yes... I agree with the crowd who thinks vendor support is everything. (Because for me, it is!)

I would think a plea for Anton K to release/sell Apollo Maximus to SmithMicro and have a female version built from his mesh. Oh wait, there is already a morph for that...

The wonderful scaling options are present. If the mesh needs some tweaking for definition (IIRC some one was concerned about how the back/shoulders looked...we have morph brush, ZBrush....)

Hmm....

("G" before there was a "G")

Outgunned by the 3doutlaw....:)

@basicwiz

You have a STRONG point there.

First one has to model a new figure. => The obj file.
Then you have to texture it => texture file
Then you have to rig it=> The cr2
Then you have to create morphs for it. lots of them to be versatile

Then you have to beta-test and correct the obj file, the texture, the rigging.
(takes 3 times as long as all first steps together).

Only then you can say: I have a figure.

Send this figure for free to all content creators you know of.

He/she uses his/her spare, non profit time, to build content for it but hey are under NDA and have to keep their big mouhts closed
.
NEW- Content he/she can NOT make or sell for other figures in the mean time.

Only then you can come out of the dark with an attractive product.

At release date, you have to come with "the" perfect and "the" user firendly figure, AND with enough items to get the useage started.

At this time??? You need "at least", and that is a strickt minimum, 50 to 100 FREE and readly available support items, or "your" figure will never kick off.

If users start using your figure, and other vendors see a market???

Only then : they will "perhaps" start building for your figure.

But ONLY.......

Only if they can make a bigger profit on your figure then on all the others.

If. . . .

If you or your team can NOT do this???

Forget it before getting your nose dirty.

Too many figures come and go, because of the builders "think" that building the figure is enough.
It is NOT.

Building the initial figure is the least of your problems.

Also,

Any "new" figure HAS to bring something "NEW" and exiting.
If it does not? And if it is just another mesh? Forget it.

Older figures getting a rebirth???
Forget it.

It is NOT worth the time and effort.

Just wade through the freestuff here and note the number of items available for each figure.

Let the numbers tell the story.

Quote - there seems to be a general interest in normal non-perfect people with normal non-perfect proportions, having normal non-perfect skin and wearing normal non-perfect clothes. IMO we can do without the 200% hydrated supermodels in their clothless coverage.

Depends on which stream you consider mainstream, though.

as much as some may wish it so, this is not a mainstream attitude. one need only look at the what is successful in the marketplace and galleries to see what people want to buy/use.  despite the fact that for the last 10+ years people in this forum have been assuring content creators that they should make 'Chubby Homemaker with unshaven legs/pits, wild 70's bush, sack dress and morphing rolling pin prop', sales wouldnt even cover the time spent making promos.

welcome to reality.

vilters, im still waiting for you to actually produce anything of note other than devoting your e-life to just criticizing everything everyone else does.

start on your own figure if youre so unhappy with everything. if you devote half as much time to it as you do to bitching and moaning in this forum, you could have singlehandedly made V6 by now.

"I would think a plea for Anton K to release/sell Apollo Maximus to SmithMicro and have a female version built from his mesh. Oh wait, there is already a morph for that..."

Apollo is already FREE an available to anyone who cares to support him with new content ..and the Content creators have spoken loud & clear about their desire(or lack thereof),to pursue that dead end.

I Doubt putting him under SM ownership would change this reality.

Cheers

Quote - "I would think a plea for Anton K to release/sell Apollo Maximus to SmithMicro and have a female version built from his mesh. Oh wait, there is already a morph for that..."

Apollo is already FREE an available to anyone who cares to support him with new content ..and the Content creators have spoken loud & clear about their desire(or lack thereof),to pursue that dead end.

I Doubt putting him under SM ownership would change this reality.

Cheers

Not to mention that by now he is old-tech anyway (and his mapping was kinda rough to work with...specially around the neck)

At this time??? You need "at least", and that is a strickt minimum, 50 to 100 FREE and readly available support items, or "your" figure will never kick off.

Been brought up before and as you know, no figure has every had that much free items available at launch.

If you do know of a character that had this amount of free items could you please let us know.

All the best.

LROG

@ Paganeagle2001
The only one that was on his/her way was "Little One".
Unfortunately the figure itself had its limitations.

@ Blackhearted

I DO build my own figures and I send them for free to all who likes them.

Poser is my hobby and my passion, and my figures are usable, and user friendly.

All I hope is to send a wake up call !

Figures HAVE to become more user and content creators friendly.

If you make them too complicated or with flaws?
You are building for the few.

No, not on it's way, it would be interesting to see the figure that had 50 - 100 free items at it's launch.

It's no good putting unexpected expectations on something that hasn't been applied to an actual character.

All the best.

LROG

3rd party figures made by individuals are not the answer.

i am in 100% agreement that in order for a figure to become mainstream it needs to be a team effort -- and also needs SM, Daz, Rendo, or RDNA standing behind it, endorsing it and continually pimping it to get the ball rolling.

i dont see the point of making a 3rd party figure just for the sake of it, unless it brings something new and significant to the table:  such as a combination of better bending, more content-creator friendly features and UVs, and some sortof open source license to allow deeper development, etc.

A good set of ideals to work on.

All the best.

LROG

Before a base mesh is made, a team would have to decide malefemale or whatever.

So, which would be more use to the community, and why?

All the best.

LROG

OY.

Barring PERSONAL problems with Apollo Max's creator (yeah I went there), what does Genesis have that really most folks want that Apollo Max can already do?

It is the morphability and the scaling.

Does Apollo Max with his OLD TECH have that? Yes.

Can knowlegdeable artisans here fix what few problems there are with the mesh?

I believe they can.

If, as was proposed, that a NEW OWNER take over the mesh, update what needs to be updated and MAKE IT CLEAR with whom content creators are dealing with then can we keep him?

Is the Apollo Mesh known? As was stated he's FREE (albeit under circumstances).

What would it take for Content Creators to create stuff for him? I'll hazard a guess it was not working with the mesh that made content creators give up.

Eliminate one factor and perhaps open up to another....

Mary mother of Mike....

Laurie

"Barring PERSONAL problems with Apollo Max's creator (yeah I went there), what does Genesis have that really most folks want that Apollo Max can already do?

It is the morphability and the scaling.

Does Apollo Max with his OLD TECH have that? Yes........

Can knowlegdeable artisans here fix what few problems there are with the mesh?

I believe they can.
"

Test your own hypothesis then...

Create some content for Apollo Yourself  and  try to sell it at any of the major poser outlets or even your own website..or grab one of the many free modeling apps and "Fix" him yourself.

That will tell you right away how much interest in him remains outside of his small ,loyal group of evangelical worshippers.

Cheers

Quote - 3rd party figures made by individuals are not the answer.

i am in 100% agreement that in order for a figure to become mainstream it needs to be a team effort -- and also needs SM, Daz, Rendo, or RDNA standing behind it, endorsing it and continually pimping it to get the ball rolling.

i dont see the point of making a 3rd party figure just for the sake of it, unless it brings something new and significant to the table:  such as a combination of better bending, more content-creator friendly features and UVs, and some sortof open source license to allow deeper development, etc.

I pretty much agree with Gabe here. Anyone that tries to do it all themselves has a lot on their plate. I feel bad for em..lol. I suggested a team effort years ago. But since we had other figures it wasn't really an issue.

Quote - Question for the modellers here:

Say I have a clothing mesh I made for V4. How hard is it to take that same mesh and resculpt it to Anastasia? Is it easier to start over from scratch?

Can definitely be done ;). Lot of work perhaps - you'd be moving polys around until the cows come home...lol.

Laurie

Quote - If, for example, you were to make a new figure from scratch that can wear all of V4's clothes, that would be convenient for those who have a "closet" full of V4 stuff but want something really new and not just another (good) version of V4.  It would not need to be supported as a stand alone.

Daz has had a major problem with that in the past. I'm thinkin they still may.

Laurie

Quote - Question for the modellers here: Say I have a clothing mesh I made for V4. How hard is it to take that same mesh and resculpt it to Anastasia? Is it easier to start over from scratch?

depends on the clothing. some items can take as little as 5 minutes to morph over, others may take as much as an hour.

generally the benefit in morphing something over as opposed to modeling it from scratch is the time savings not just in modeling but in UV mapping, texturing, detailing, shader development, etc. 

so say you have a clothing set that is modeled for V4 and is already UV mapped, textured, displacement mapped, with shaders, etc - it would be far wiser to just morph it over than to make a new one from scratch.

Quote - > Quote - If, for example, you were to make a new figure from scratch that can wear all of V4's clothes, that would be convenient for those who have a "closet" full of V4 stuff but want something really new and not just another (good) version of V4.  It would not need to be supported as a stand alone.

Daz has had a major problem with that in the past. I'm thinkin they still may.

Laurie

Every new figure release had that problem. DAZ even went and developed new tech to build into studio so their new genesis figure would not have that much of an issue. But apparently that was not good enough for some people LOL

Compatibility will always be an issue.

Nobody like to re-buy clothes for a new figure when they have something similar already for another figure. But that really is the reality of a new figure. It comes into this world naked .......and then spends most of its life in that state, just in a temple with a sword.

Well, I can remember a certain figure that was made specifically to wear Vicky's clothes and Daz was not pleased...lol. At least, I think that was the reason. Was a long time ago...lol

Laurie

Quote - "Barring PERSONAL problems with Apollo Max's creator (yeah I went there), what does Genesis have that really most folks want that Apollo Max can already do?

It is the morphability and the scaling.

Does Apollo Max with his OLD TECH have that? Yes........

Can knowlegdeable artisans here fix what few problems there are with the mesh?

I believe they can.
"

Test your own hypothesis then...

Create some content for Apollo Yourself  and  try to sell it at any of the major poser outlets or even your own website..or grab one of the many free modeling apps and "Fix" him yourself.

That will tell you right away how much interest in him remains outside of his small ,loyal group of evangelical worshippers.

Cheers

You have missed my point. (or maybe you didn't, hmm).

If the mesh were taken over and handled by the SMITH MICRO COMPANY, brought up to date, tweaked as needed, it could suffice. It has the scaling capabilities, and if the TEAM PUT TOGETHER BY SMITH MICRO did what was needed to do add the morphs (we know that can and has been done).

I don't worship at the altar of Apollo, and your last sentence and its "tone" is a bit telling, no?

As a vendor that creates a lot of characters here is my take on what it would take to make a new salable base character.

1. She has to look like a girl with a sweet, cute youthful girly face.

Not a tough masculine face. European not Asian, (but morphable into Asian and other ethnic looks) Sweet and hot like a cheerleader sells.

No matter how great her body is her face sells her first. Look at all the ads in the marketplace of the top selling products .Even the vendors buy those sweet girls to market their products with. Why? Because that type of face sells products.

1. She absolutely MUST morph into  both a voluptuous girl, busty, small waist, dreamy hips or slim and youthful. No boobs no sales for the base character.I know. I've tried marketing most of the "other characters".

2. She would need a weight mapped and a non weight mapped version. There are far more customers running older version of Poser that do not take weight mapping than there are that use it.

Strictly speaking from a vendor's standpoint. The absolute best thing that could happen for the marketplace would be an upgrade of Poser to support Genesis.

The market is so fractured from this rift it has cost all of us dearly.

It would be nice if everyone could play nice again.

These are my opinions as a vendor that would really like to see the market get stronger which would benefit everyone.

cheerio

lululee

If I recall correctly Anton put things into the readme of Apollo stating that the figure could not be used as the basis for any other figure. I think he even went so far as to say the CR2 could not be reverse engineered. I also think he threatened to take the whole lot offline if anyone tried. Unless he has had a huge change of heart I doubt he would allow anyone to take over his work and rebuild it. It might be worth someone asking his permission, but without that I would say leave Apollo out of the game.

"You have missed my point. (or maybe you didn't, hmm)."

I see your "point"
I just dont see it as anything more than a Pipedream IMHO.

Smith Micro makes their own figures
( such as they are)

I don't recall them ever adopting, refurbishing& recycling any vestigial figures that were created&abandoned by their creators years ago.

IMHO there exists no evidence of them(SM)being interested in such an undertaking as they need to be looking forward for solutions to  improving poser figures..... not backwards

Cheers