Hello.  The following is not a troll post, I promise, nor is it an attempt to bait anyone.  I am just on a tight budget and ignorant of things that concern me and am looking for honest answers from people who have and use the "free" version of the referenced product.

I distrust anything marketed as "free" because they usually connote shoddy work (this thing looks really great, but DAZ would naturally put on a good show), are only a part of a whole with additional components required at a high cost ("the flashlight is free, but the batteries are twenty bucks each"), or involve hidden costs, user fees, or restrictive agreements that make the thing a waste in the end.  I have looked over the DAZ pages for the product and have not found any fine print, so I am even more concerned.

1)  What are the hidden / back end costs specifically related to downloading the "free" version of D|S 4.0?  Purchasing additional content to use in it is expected, and are neither hidden nor specific to the program download / use unless a plug-in or some such is also required, at cost, before I can use the thing.

2)  I live in a state with no sales tax, so what are the other taxes / fees imposed by others outside of DAZ?

3)  Other than the expected EULA restrictions, what are the binding agreements that would make getting the program not worth the space on my computer?

If it really is "free" just to get a D|S foot in my door, I would be inclined to get it, then shut the door.  I would rather not have to shove something out of the way or let it ransack my house just because I wanted to play with a toy. :)

There are no added plugins required to use DS4 Pro.  No user fees, no restrictive agreements to using it :) No taxes if you aren't in a state where they're required to collect them, no fees imposed by anyone outside Daz (or inside Daz either) in order to use it..

It hasn't ransacked my house yet, just provided a lot of fun.  There are tons things you CAN buy, but nothing you have to.

So get in and shut the door and have fun!!

Daz would LOVE to have you buy more stuff for Genesis (the very cool, in my opinion, figure that comes with DS4) but that's totally up to you :)

ENJOY!

Oh, and while you're at it, get Bryce

http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-what-is-bryce/

and Hexagon

http://www.daz3d.com/products/hexagon/hexagon-what-is-hexagon/

before they're no longer free. 

Even if you don't think you'll use them, you'll have them just in case :)

Wow, paraniod much, LOL. (JK)

I have yet to see anything suspicious in the offer. It works as advertised for me and so far I can't find a hidden agenda other than they are trying to get more people to use genesis so they can sell more products.

I am a long time poser user with a big V4 runtime, so I was skeptical trying a new figure thinking about the costs associated with it, but to my surprize, I have only had to invest in a few things and with them have been able to use most of my V4 content in DS4 AND with genesis, which really is a versitile figure and very easy to work with and get great results. (what I bought was genX to transfer all my V4 morphs to genesis and the V4/M4 shapes for genesis which make this happen).

I actually like the UI more and more over poser 2012, especially the library palette which loads fast more me, unlike poser.

The biggest issue I have with it is the CMS service it has which seems to phone home more than I like, but you can turn it off which is what I did, but you lose some smart content/meta data thingy which I don't use since I have my runtimes already set up like I like.

I haven't read the EULA, but I am pretty sure it's like most software where you are just purchasing/agreeing to a license to use it, not own it.

Hope thast helps some

Quote - There are no added plugins required to use DS4 Pro.  No user fees, no restrictive agreements to using it :) No taxes if you aren't in a state where they're required to collect them, no fees imposed by anyone outside Daz (or inside Daz either) in order to use it.

So far, 100% in my favor.  Huzzah! :)

Quote - It hasn't ransacked my house yet, just provided a lot of fun.  There are tons things you CAN buy, but nothing you have to. So get in and shut the door and have fun!!

Daz would LOVE to have you buy more stuff for Genesis (the very cool, in my opinion, figure that comes with DS4) but that's totally up to you :)

ENJOY!

I have an older version of a different "posing" program and most of what I have for it I bought from DAZ and never had any trouble with it or the comapny, but I paid for everything, so I expected and would require excellent customer service - not so for "free" stuff.

Quote - Oh, and while you're at it, get Bryce http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-what-is-bryce/

and Hexagon

http://www.daz3d.com/products/hexagon/hexagon-what-is-hexagon/

before they're no longer free. 

Even if you don't think you'll use them, you'll have them just in case :)

I am looking at those as well, but I have not posted this same topic on those forums yet.  I know not to assume what may be true for one product is not always true of another, . . . :-

Definitely worth the real estate,

Just don't try to export content you dont own and sell it and you will pretty much stay on track with Eula(Hopefully someone can find a link to the latest). Renders are generally fine for most commercial purposes.

Most content also has its own Eula as well.

Quote - Wow, paraniod much, LOL. (JK)

Sufficiently.  I have never been shot, but I would not need to be shot by every caliber of bullet to know I would dislike it the first time.  I have, however, had hidden taxes, fees, and restrictive agreements in other things, so I thought it better to ask than just jump. :)

Quote - I have yet to see anything suspicious in the offer. It works as advertised for me and so far I can't find a hidden agenda other than they are trying to get more people to use genesis so they can sell more products.

A foot in the door with a "free" product is fine, so long as there is not a shove that goes with it.  I am glad to hear you have not been shoved.

Quote - I am a long time poser user with a big V4 runtime, so I was skeptical trying a new figure thinking about the costs associated with it, but to my surprize, I have only had to invest in a few things and with them have been able to use most of my V4 content in DS4 AND with genesis, which really is a versitile figure and very easy to work with and get great results. (what I bought was genX to transfer all my V4 morphs to genesis and the V4/M4 shapes for genesis which make this happen).

I have an older version of P**** but not a whole lot of additional content for it, and I like the idea that part of Genesis is some backwards compatability for things alread in the DAZ catalogue.

Quote - The biggest issue I have with it is the CMS service it has which seems to phone home more than I like, but you can turn it off which is what I did, but you lose some smart content/meta data thingy which I don't use since I have my runtimes already set up like I like.

I do not know what CMS is, so I assume it is an auto-update for service packs.

Quote - Hope thast helps some

Quite a lot, actually. :D

CMS is the Content Management Service, which enables Smart Content and Categories for viewing content.  You can just view content as it appears on disk, the same way as Poser.

It does not "phone home" -- it's a database services which communicates with DS4 and Carrara 8.5 via local ports, same as most database services.  It only accesses local ports, not the internet.

If anything, now that DAZ Studio 4 Pro is free it is less like those "free" things that you describe than the original free DAZ Studio used to be. Last year the basic Studio was free, but in order to "create content" and do more advanced tasks you needed to pay a not inconsiderable sum for upgrades—to Advanced and Pro. This is no longer the case, so you are getting a formerly "not free" program for nothing, rather than a shoddy made-to-give-away thing. That makes it a different paradigm, I think.

Of course there are costs attached (as you accept) because you will buy content, but that is true of any paid-for program of this kind. You could say the same thing about a free artists easel—you will have to buy, and keep buying, paints, brushes, paper or canvas if you want to use it for its intended purpose. (Although, unlike paints, your 3D materials are not consumed.) However, that is all you will be required to pay for, and of course, you need not buy any of these from DAZ (although you likely will—that is their gameplan).

None of the paid-for plugins are essential, and in any case, they are created by 3rd parties, and DAZ may not necessarily benefit from sales of these (e.g. Reality).

Thanks to all for the helpful answers.  I now have it downloaded but not unzipped yet, since I am not sure where I want to put it. :)

Yea, it is definitely worth getting it!  No hidden anything.  I'm a Poser user, but it gives me a good free conduit through to Reality, as it can import PZ3's.  It's main figure is Genesis, but you can just ignore that if your not interested and do everything that DS3 Pro allowed you to do...for free!

Hex is also a cool, easy to grasp modeller, with a good core group of helpful followers.

Quote - Yea, it is definitely worth getting it!  No hidden anything.  I'm a Poser user, but it gives me a good free conduit through to Reality, as it can import PZ3's.  It's main figure is Genesis, but you can just ignore that if your not interested and do everything that DS3 Pro allowed you to do...for free!

Hex is also a cool, easy to grasp modeller, with a good core group of helpful followers.

I also have the free Hexagon, which seems to have d/l fine, but the free Bryce 7 gave me a stern warning: "Bryce 7.(whatever it is) is not a valid Win32 operation and can damage your computer."  I run Windows 7 64 bit and have posted this in the Bryce forum to see what, if anything, can be done - I assume I will have to trash it and buy a compatable version later.

Yea, I have W7/64...but I tried Bryce a while back and did not like it.  I like Vue...but waiting for the end-all, be-all Sale!  ;-)

DS4 has a 64bit, did you get that version?

Quote - I also have the free Hexagon, which seems to have d/l fine, but the free Bryce 7 gave me a stern warning: "Bryce 7.(whatever it is) is not a valid Win32 operation and can damage your computer."  I run Windows 7 64 bit and have posted this in the Bryce forum to see what, if anything, can be done - I assume I will have to trash it and buy a compatable version later.

I installed Bryce 7 on my Laptop and Desktop. Both are Win 7 Pro 64 bit with out error or any other problems. I did have the same problem with DAZ 4 Pro and resolved the problem by downloading again. Your download most likely got corrupted. Try downloading and installing again

Quote - > Quote - Oh, and while you're at it, get Bryce http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-what-is-bryce/

and Hexagon

http://www.daz3d.com/products/hexagon/hexagon-what-is-hexagon/

before they're no longer free. 

Even if you don't think you'll use them, you'll have them just in case :)

I am looking at those as well, but I have not posted this same topic on those forums yet.  I know not to assume what may be true for one product is not always true of another, . . . :-

It definitely is in this case :).  They are giving away all 3 with the same no-strings-attached deal

Quote - I also have the free Hexagon, which seems to have d/l fine, but the free Bryce 7 gave me a stern warning: "Bryce 7.(whatever it is) is not a valid Win32 operation and can damage your computer."  I run Windows 7 64 bit and have posted this in the Bryce forum to see what, if anything, can be done - I assume I will have to trash it and buy a compatable version later.

I'm not sure why you're having the issue with Bryce (it definitely won't damage your computer - boy, now that's a scary error message to have from Windows, isn't it!!)  And you should not have to trash it and buy a compatible version later

I'm sure someone at a Bryce forum here or at Daz can help.  Daz has, as you probably know, some major issues right now with their site, but things are getting better there bit by bit and there are lots of Bryce users who can help there as well.  Just be aware that the forums are still wonky.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewforum/38/

And I just searched and found this - maybe it'll help somehow :)

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/21201467-how-to-install-bryce-7-pro

 (edit-posted before seeing the previous post-good idea to redownload!)

Oh, and since there's not very good documentation with Daz Studio, here's a link to some videos that you may find helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM/videos

RE DS Hidden costs, thats depends on wether you have an addictive personality.  In the sense if you may make impulsive purchasing decisions. However, from the nature of your question I suspect this in not a problem in your case.  I think you will find it a woderful vaue all costs considered.

FYI Wings3D and Blender.org are two other great modeling and rendering apps that are free and extremely worthwhile.  

Quote - DS4 has a 64bit, did you get that version?

The free version I have is the DAZStudio_4.0.3.47_Win_bundle.zip, and includes Win32.exe and Win64.exe files.  I have not unzipped it yet mostly because I am thinking of putting it in something other than the Programs folder.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Oh, and while you're at it, get Bryce http://www.daz3d.com/products/bryce/bryce-what-is-bryce/

I am looking at those as well, . . .

. . . the free Bryce 7 gave me a stern warning: "Bryce 7.(whatever it is) is not a valid Win32 operation and can damage your computer."  I run Windows 7 64 bit and have posted this in the Bryce forum to see what, if anything, can be done - I assume I will have to trash it and buy a compatable version later.

I'm not sure why you're having the issue with Bryce (it definitely won't damage your computer - boy, now that's a scary error message to have from Windows, isn't it!!)  And you should not have to trash it and buy a compatible version later

I'm sure someone at a Bryce forum here or at Daz can help.  Daz has, as you probably know, some major issues right now with their site, but things are getting better there bit by bit and there are lots of Bryce users who can help there as well.  Just be aware that the forums are still wonky.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewforum/38/

And I just searched and found this - maybe it'll help somehow :)

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/21201467-how-to-install-bryce-7-pro

 (edit-posted before seeing the previous post-good idea to redownload!)

Oh, and since there's not very good documentation with Daz Studio, here's a link to some videos that you may find helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM/videos

Thank you for the links.  I will study them just so I know, and will probably just trash the potentially corrupted copy I have and do a fresh d/l from the DAZ site later today. :)

Basicly the Pro version was for sale, as was Hex and Bryce.  They wanted to expand the user base and have put them to free for a 'limited' time.  Who knows how long that will be though.  Nothing hidden in any of them.  They Hex that is Free is the same one I bought, it ties into DS as Does Bryce.  Enjoy

Quote - > Quote - DS4 has a 64bit, did you get that version?

The free version I have is the DAZStudio_4.0.3.47_Win_bundle.zip, and includes Win32.exe and Win64.exe files.  I have not unzipped it yet mostly because I am thinking of putting it in something other than the Programs folder.

Definitely put them somewhere other then your program files,I put mine in my document files in a folder I called 3D programs,DS likes it there alot.

Only put them in Documents if you don't plan to use it from a different User Account.

Just a follow-up:  According to the Daz forums, the warning about the Bryce 7 was a "false positive," especially considering I bought some V4 content with about 35 .exe files and 34 of them had warnings of their own, but everything, including the Bryce, scanned clean for anything harmful and Avast has recently updated its downloader scanner stuff.

Everything scans clean and should have d/l clean if I did it now. :)

The irony with DS4 Pro being free is you can imagine the uproar to those who paid for it it when it was first released.

I have both Daz Studio 4 Pro and Poser Pro 2012 so best of both worlds. :) The Ui and general scene manipulation is DS4 is why I like it. That and I am slowly getting content for Genesis.

The "hidden costs" are in time and content selection.  You do need to understand that while the program is free, you will be facing certain limitations.

1.  So far, genesis has been a marketplace failure as far as vendor content development is concerned.  (Cue screaming hysterics from the crowd.)  For the most part, what you can purchase will be limited to what is available at DAZ.  If you are looking for more than fantasy outfits or clubwear, you will be shopping elsewhere.  Which leads to issue 2:

2.  Marketplace penetration outside of DAZ has been negligible.  There were more items released in the first 2 weeks at 'Rosity for V4 than has been released for genesis since the release of DS4. From the release of DS4 to the March Madness sale at DAZ for example, there were only 300 (items, bundles, tutorials, etc) items released specifically for genesis.  (I counted them.)  Other stores have even less content.  Sorry, but this is reality - I can count.

For example, as of today, almost all of the clothing content here at 'Rosity is from 2 vendors - Sickleyield and dzheng.

The folks that make texture sets for clothing are MIA at this point.  Which is stupid - the vendor that steps up to make textures for genesis clothing will have a growing market to themselves, just like Sickleyield and dzheng.

Too much of the clothing content that has been created for genesis at DAZ is just a rehash of Gen3/Gen4 content (Cue more screaming hysterics from the crowd.)  That is the kind of talk that may get one banned at the DAZ forums, but I have an extensive V3/V4 closet (60Gb+) & I haven't seen anything new, just the same impractical armor and clubwear.  This has been the biggest disappointment - there is a real opportunity to be creative and most of the clothing vendors are scared to make the leap.

I believe reason for this is:

3.  There is no current documentation for any DAZ product - they are working on this, but they have been working on this for years, with little in the way of usable results.  Lack of documentation is why I no longer use Carerra or Bryce, and I haven't really put a great deal of effort with DS4P or Hexagon. - My time is valuable and DAZ still doesn't understand that documentation is a force multiplier.

Hopefully, DAZ will manage to get accurate documentation that matches the program because:

4.  DS4P isn't done and DAZ continues to add features.  There are still major components of the program that are still in beta - the shader system isn't finished, auto-fit is getting better, but isn't finished either and the SDK is still not available - which prevents people from extending the capabilities of DS4.  DAZ appears to be more concerned about adding features than finishing the product.

5.  Because of all of the last 2 items, the support ecosystem that other programs have simply doesn't exist at this time. There are no experts on the various subsystems haunting the forums as there are with other programs.

Hopefully, that ecosystem will exist in the future, but for now, you will be a pioneer - so take good notes - you could become the bagginsbill of DS4.

Quote - The irony with DS4 Pro being free is you can imagine the uproar to those who paid for it it when it was first released.

They made restitution.

Attached Link: 3D Store & Content Club Shoot Out 2012

Regarding cost of his hobby, some of the DAZ Platinum Club (discount club) users discussing the recent program benifit changes were questioning value.  DAZ PC is still appears to provide some of the best value. I assembled the program benifits and published this comparative list with the competition so you can evaluate which are most relevant to you.

http://www.farmpeeps.com/3d_content_clubs.html#

The hidden cost is that because the main product is free it has 0 tech support on anything you buy.   The documentation on anything beyond user interface stuff simply doesn't exist, and support consists of community volunteers who have no training.

It's a great product for free.  It's a horrible product if you pay for it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM?feature=watch

I swear Poser manual 3,4,5 read see forums LOL.

All app's suxs at teaching you how the app works.

Probably why thay sell so much educational materails.