Don't get me wrong I love free stuff. It helps people to hone their skills and help pay back for all they help they get. Love the concept. I've written tutorials because I do that better than morphs or materials. But some of the free stuff has non-commercial use restrictions. Fine its yours. Is it that you guys hate capitalism or what? Often something nebulious and holy is put in like please ask permission, (yes Mother) sometimes there is nothing about how to contact the artist. Why not just name a price and put it in the store so that you can pick up the commercial license? I don't mind PAYing if I am making MONEY with your hard work. I like to try before I buy and guess what there is a name for it. SHAREWARE. Use it all you want but if you make money then PAY. I'll bet not many of you that put the non-com blurb in there get many bites or requests for permission. Not because you work is trash, just that it takes effort and when you're working on something you seldom have the time to run down a permission request.

No it's not that people hate capitalism, it's that people hate the thought of some selfish twat making money by selling their free items. I thought that would have been fairly clear by now considering some of the abuse that goes on with people trying to make a fast buck with someone elses hard work. On top of that some free items have no commercial uses because of copyrights that one can't do anything about, such as with certain movie related files or personality related morphs. Other people simply want to continue the tradition of freestuff - like Traveller who gives his morphs freely and only asks that you give characters made with those morphs freely. Just because someone says "You can't make money with MY work" why do you have such a problem with that? If you want to use an item in a commercial render or animation has it occurred to you to ASK rather than just blow off in the forum and slag every person who gives their time, work, effort and money FREE? Has it possibly occurred to you that maybe people just LIKE to be asked and that the larger majority don't want to sell you a commercial license? But oh no, that's too much trouble for you isn't it, to take a few seconds to fire off an email and say, "Thanks for your hard work and free item, by the way I want to make money with it." Too much trouble is it? What a nice thing that is. No wonder there are fewer people who want to give things free these days when this is the kind of reception they can expect. Bugger asking if you can use something, to hell with respecting someone's wishes, sod buying an item to cover your commercial needs. No just slam the free stuff givers because they want something to be left free. To hell with you.

I agree with you. For the record, none of my stuff has any commercial use restrictions. Make all the images and animations you want with them. If you can make some money off of them, more power to you.

Hmm... we must have hit the post button at the same time. To clarify, no, I don't want people selling the free items I make themselves. That's copyright violation. But images and animations created with them belong to the artist, and the artist has every right to sell them.

I've only had one item up in the free stuff a year or so ago (a stone railing), and I gave free use for both commercial and non-commercial. I don't care what people do with it just as long as they don't distribute the original object and call it theirs. Anything they use it in (i.e., rendered art) is theirs to do with as they please. I've had a few textures in the past on my own website and the same thing goes. I create these things for the love of it. It's therapeutic after a long day at work, I get my own enjoyment out of it, and if others can use it, then great! I tend to keep mostly the downloads I collect that have commercial use permission already given (I do keep Kozaburo's hair even though it's not for commercial use). I read the readme right away. I keep a personal database of everything I've acquired, both purchases and freebies, with a column for whether commerical use is granted. I want folks to use my things (what little there has been) for whatever they need it for. I do it out of the love of it. As I said, I create because it's restful for me, I get my repayment that way. If someone can use it for a book cover or a poster or an ad or whatever they need it for, I'm flattered they thought it was good enough to use for that. I'd enjoy seeing the work, just to see how it's been used. I think the only thing I would object to is if something I've created is used in something tasteless or pronographic. That I don't like. But if someone used my stone railing in a product cover or something, hey, that means it must be pretty good! I know a lot of people want more, but this is just me. Everyone has the right to decide how they want their own work used by others, but I just do it this way because I don't want to bother with red tape. I may consider putting a few things up in the future, and when or if I do, they'll be for free use, both commercial and non-commercial. Melanie

Traveler is now selling his CDs :) so much for free. I love to pay if I make money. I love free too. I'm not talking about non-com for distribution of the files. I'm talking about non-com for creation of art. I'm not knocking the people who give things away free. I'm just questioning the wisdom of the non-com restriction. If the reason they do it is that they don't want someone making money off their stuff unless they make some $$$ too then just offer it as a shareware product in the store. If you put the non-com in because it is a derrivative work of a non-com freebie then say so. If you're giving it away because basically you are learning and believe that the quality just doesn't qualify it for the store then why the non-com? If you're giving it away because you believe in freedom why does freedom stop because I make a $ on my art? My art is video. Video is my medium. Largely, I design videos for training, for a company. They pay me money. I have $$$ in models I have bought No amount of verbage in a readme has ever keep a crook from turning a buck. Even Adobe and Microsoft who can afford all the lawyers in the world can't do that. Readmes work because we have respect for each others work. I respect the non-com readmes by deleting the zip I just downloaded. Not out of spite. It's just that everything I do is commercial. I guess I'm just evil that way.

Too bad we can't have the two types of freebies separated, one area for commercial free use and the other area for the rest. Or at least state it's not for commercial use before you download it. I don't just play with stuff I get from the free area, like jamball77 I usually just delete it if the readme says it's only for personal use. I don't ever sell anything from the freestuff area, but I do use what I am allowed to use for commercial renders and animations. I realize that people put a lot of work into the free stuff, and I respect that, and I know that they may just want to share it, but as I said before, it would be nice if someone knew before it was downloaded. Questor, I don't understand why you are so bitter about it. If someone has ripped you off I'm sorry, but I don't see how using that word is justified when jamball77 was just asking a question. I dislike anyone ripping anyone off, we all saw what happened to Traveler when he was generous enough to share with us. But I wonder how many people used his morphs to sell commercial renders or animations and made even more than the people who used them to create characters? There is a lot of aggression here lately, it's getting depressing sometimes to login and read the poser area. This place has really changed a lot since the first time I logged in. Marque

I apologise Jamball, I misread your post. The non-commercial restriction on free stuff was introduced around about the same time as the stores. The simple reason for it's existence is to protect free stuff users against idiots who think thievery is fair dinkum when it comes to store sales. very very very very very very few people who give free stuff have a non-commercial restriction regarding images and animations. You made those, it's your right to sell them. I only know of a couple people (freestuff) and one (store) who require seperate licences for this sort of thing. The larger majority of the time people won't restrict the use of their items in pictures. OK, sometimes you don't have the time to mail them and wait for a response. So you compensate, you use a different file. However, to be prefectly honest it's safe enough to use the items in images. I can think of one occassion last year where someone got upset over not being credited in a commercial image for a single prop that was used. This is an exception. However, even if you don't have the time to fire off an email request, and you absolutely cannot find anything anywhere that will take the props' place or make it yourself I would say go ahead with the image anyway, but STILL mail the author and explain what has happened and why. It is a very simple and basic etiquette to do so. Very few of the files I give out have a non-commercial restriction. None of them have a non-commercial image restriction. I have had numerous people write to me over the last few years asking about files and their inclusion in images and animations - perhaps I've been lucky. I've never had anyone write to me asking if they can sell something including one of my files because the larger majority of store vendors know better than to do that. Anyway, sorry I was so short in the first post as I read as it as yet another attack on people who give freestuff files. As for Traveller selling his morphs on cd. Yes, but he's making even more available for free on his site. And the only reason he's gone over to selling them like this is because there were some unscrupulous people who used his morphs in store characters without requesting permission or offering some compensation even if it was just a credit. Theft is theft, and in the end it hurts the majority rather than the few selfish idiots who do it. Before the stores there were no commercial restrictions. The stores arrived, they're here to stay and people feel threatened that if they don't restrict their items they are going to find them added to some store thing. That's the main reason for the introduction of "no commercial use" I suppose hundreds of people around the world could re-write their readme files to say "no commercial use except for images" but then they wouldn't get a mail from people asking. I kinda like people asking me first, I think it's polite to do so. I have never restricted use of the items, but I do request that the user considers donating something towards a children's charity if they make money on something. I do not consider that to be an unreasonable request.

Marque, the freebies listing at 3-darena.com states if it's ok for commercial use before you download. (Just need more entries tho... )

Ahh, I think that most people who have put things in free stuff would agree that all images (including animations) can be used commercially. I think that the non-com rules apply to the distribution of the item itself or it's dirivitives. For example I put a texture in free stuff, don't package that texture with a charater you want to sell, don't copy & paste a piece of my texture put it together with another texture and then sell it. But if you put the texture on a figure, render it, and want to use the image for say, a book cover or whatever, be my guest. But if you have a question about it, ask the person who posted it, if you can't get ahold of the person and there is no mention of it in the read-me, then just use the item for your commercial renders.

My problem isn't asking. It's just that when I need it I don't have time to ask! even e-mail can be too slow. I'm usually up against a deadline. If I ask before hand I'd have to tell an artist, well I think I'm going to use it for ... but really don't know. It won't be for erotic art. I think that if the person won't grant the non-com and I don't have a specific answer why would they grant it if I ask. Kozo's stuff or the Fat Guy stuff is great. I respect their art, but unless they give me a non-com or sell me a non-com I'm wasting my time even unzipping it.

I hope you'll enjoy this model....I really worked hard on him so don't forget to give me credits.... IMPORTANT : Don't use it for commercial things.....!! From REMCs Fat Dudes This file is free for personal / non comarcial use. Copyright (C) 2001 kozaburo Some people I gues aren't reading the readmes. I'll take the time right now and email each of these two artists and see how they interpret what they mean by non commercial.

Coming from a n00b, I think the freebies are awesome and I am appreciative of the time and effort people put into their work. If it wasn't for those that were generous, I might not learn something new. I don't see myself as ever selling anything I make. I just want to express myself and say, "Look! I can do this!" But I would, and do, take the extra time to write and say THANKS and ask permission for what I want to do with the freebie item(s).

I love the free stuff. I worship those that make these things for us no minds who can't figure it out. That said, I do grumble a bit when I see a readme that has the non commercial added in. I have no interest in selling their work, but I do make renders for book covers. The pay is very small, if I get paid at all. (haven't been paid for a year) Keep doing it because I enjoy it. I also download interesting props etc that I might need in the future.(or are just darn cool and want to play with) So I read the readme right away, if it has the restrictions I delete it, no matter how much I want it since I know I will forget where I got it. (yes I save a copy of the zips, but not everything is named right etc) My cable allows me so much for downloading. I go over it and I start paying. It would be nice if there was some sort note saying if it had restrictions before I downloaded it. In the very least, put a price on how much it would cost to do commercial renders.

Alright, here's my 2 cents. At least with respect to my take on the "non-commercial" clause is that, there are no restrictions on use on 3D renderings or animations using the free stuff as long as the artists that created the work has been mentioned or thanked. I think people who make the stuff just don't want to see artwork floating around with their work and have people say... "Yeap, this was entirely my own modeling, texturing, & rendering." If you look through galleries, most artist will just have a quick credit saying: hair by so & so, texture by so & so, etc. I think that's all that I care about when it comes to my offerings. The non-commercial part refers to when people are selling the actual models & textures that are used to CREATE renders, not the actual rendered images & artwork. So you could sell your rendered artwork as print or electronic media using free stuff, but not the actual textures or models as a package in the store. See the difference? I think there was a long discussion a long while back that talked about all this. No one can be so bold as to claim that they could hold copyright on all renderings made using their products (where would Daz be if that was the case?) What would people do if Daz said you could use our models as long as you don't distribute the images or videos made using our models? There you go.

But the Daz models are paid for. When I see "personal use only" I take it that means exactly that. I would love to just assume they mean what I want them to mean ~G~ but I might make 1.50 on a render... I can't afford to get sued. And I don't want to annoy the modelier either. It's their right to say and do what they want with their model. I fully admit they deserve something for their hard work. Just at this moment I can't afford it. I bought the ones I had to have of course, but I can't buy everything, so make it up with the great freestuff. I usually always try and send a personal email to thank them if I use it.

In my experience in asking about using freestuff in comercial projects i have yet to be turned down or charged money, i think what most folks want is just to know what there stuff is being used for, for example if you had a model that was about to be used in a TV advert wouldn't you like to know....or on the other hand if you created a model that was the main focus in a tv show/ad and the animator was getting LOTS of money and you got zero folks might change there tune LOL........in the end it boils down to respecting the artists wishes and organising your folders to reflect which can be used with what, and/or ASK most are very easy going ;o).....Steve

I have said this before. My textures are for anyone to do anything with. Sell it, modify them, throw them out on the lawn and do a little dance. I dont care. I would like it if credit is given to me for what I have done..but hey I cant control that. Once they are out there they are out of my control. If you wanna share the cash you make off em then by all means, I wont turn it down. if you dont thats ok to. I do them for fun and if someone likes them then thats cool. They arent the best, I still need to work on my skills. But hey they will do. So do what you will. :)

Actually if I'm going to use another person's work in a commercial project that they would be able to access I would send them an email with a heads-up on it. I know that I would like to know if something I created was being used in something cool. If I use a model or texture that I get from the freebie site they are listed in the credits. They may not be listed as "this is the person who created such and such model or texture", but they would have the name listed under the appropriate section. That is only right, and you never know...someone might just see it and request their services as a modeler or texturer. (I hope that's a word). 8^) I have asked permission on some things I really liked and have always gotten an affirmative answer, but sometimes I too am under a deadline and it's just easier to use something I already have permission to use. Once again thanks to all of you wonderful folks who have the time and talent to create for the rest of us, either for free or for sale as you ARE appreciated more than you know. Marque

I don't want anyone to have the impression I'm ungrateful. I agree that the very least one can do is to give credit. I even believe in giving credit to those I've paid. I've even posted a few threads. Here's one http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=392808 not enough can be said about how great Free Stuff is and what it means to our community. I'd go so far as to say Poser 4 by itself out of the box is worthless trash if it weren't for the goodies that come from this community. I absolutely mean that. I model with LW and am pretty good. But I can never have enough time to meet all my prop/people needs not to mention textures.

Perhaps people just need to be a bit more explicit in their read_me files. I don't have any models in Free Stuff, but on my web site my read_me expressly gives the artist the right to do anything they want with the art they produce, while trying to keep slugs from grabbing and bundling models to sell on some cheep CD-ROM or through their on-line store. Here is how it reads: "This model and its associated texture maps are Copyright 2001 by Jon M. Strother. The model and maps may not be redistributed commercially without express written permission from the author. Any final art work rendered with the model and/or its texture maps may be sold commercially by the producing artist without restriction. Your art is your own. The model and texture maps may be modified and redistributed freely for non-commercial use as long as this READ_ME file is contained in the distribution. I assume no liability for use of this model or its texture maps. For more information, or to report abuses of this policy, send mailto:jstro@swbell.net. Enjoy." I hope I've hit the happy medium. jon

heyas; i think some of you are mis-reading the non-commercial clause. when the read me says 'for personal use only' or 'not for commercial use' they don't JUST mean selling the item, the mean making an image that you intend to sell (or that you happen to sell sometime in the future.) if that's not what they mean, that's at least what they're saying. so yeah, some clarification is in order. i think my txt file is clear on it. i do not restrict image/animation use of my stuff, but i do not allow redistribution (without permission). also if you're making textures, put your name and restrictions somewhere on the tex map. it makes it SO much easier. i started putting on the side of my maps "free for any use; not for redistribution." i think that's pretty clear. (geeze, i hope!)

also for those making readmes please don't call it readme.txt call it emily_readme.txt or whatever your main file is called. when you expand the zip to a folder it romps on the next readme. 8 bit names aren't required by any OS so there is no reason to hold on the short names. DAZ has started a good idea decompress your readme to the Poser4/ReadMe's

I have seen some restrict use of textures saying you can't post/sell a render of a texture mapped to a flat 2D surface. That makes sense, it just skirts the restriction.

The things I post I say that you are free to do with what you will, but do not put on a CD or site for profit to your self and don't pass it off as something that you created thats it. If you are doing a commercial production and feel that one of my models fits and you can use it that is great I don' texpect to be paid because you are making money and I would expect the same in return. I read somewhere that Microsoft isn't jacking the price of microsoft word just because King is making millions writing stories. I feel that is somewhat similaer to here. IMVHO

So what are you saying... I put a model in freestuff, then Dreamworks can put it in their next multi-million-dollar movie (with my name in the end-credits) and not even ask me?

If Dreamworks is using my models they've realy fallen on hard times! :-D jon

Well, mostly I like to make and use all my own stuff....How better to show off what I...CAPITAL I...can do. However, I did a print poster series, earlier this summer for a nightclub, here in town. I used some of Bebop's most excellent lace products...and their readmes did say not to be used in commercial renders. Even though I felt pretty darned sure he wasn't gonna pop up in my town, screaming copyright infringement...I did ask his permission. It was freely given. I guess, if you really hate abiding by the terms of the freestuff....and, you do intend on makin' some money using it...well, take a few to ask permission, or, better...learn how to make your own. Pop...pop...pop!!!

It would be nice if the "non-commercial" definition could be more clear in the readme files. Be specific. Say something like "Rendered artwork that includes this item cannot be used for commercial purposes," or something like that. I see by this thread that there are as many interpretations of the term "non-commercial" as there are folks here. I've always interpreted it to mean that any rendered artwork I create using an item (say a prop, a sword or something) cannot be used in something like cover art for a novel that I might sell commercially. So, I stay away from those items. I did ask Ed Baumgarten if I could use one of his items for a future book cover, and he was very generous to say yes. I've also saved his e-mail reply in case anyone should question it. Maybe we should have a standard phrase that makes it very clear what the non-commerical usage really is. It would make it a lot easier for all of us. That way, none of us would step on any toes and the folks giving the items for free won't have to worry about their stuff being used without permission. It might be a thought. Melanie

I respect the "non commercial" clause, even if I don't understand why folks demand it. In my opinion, it would be better for a maker of freestuff to allow commercial renders....NOT RESALE of their stuff, as an advertising mechanism in itself. However, I do think...that if we use another's product, even "bought" stuff....that can make our renders not completely totally reflective of our own work. I do have my "must haves" and use them in most of my renders. Gosh, I am just not good enough, yet, to spline model a vicki or a michael. What really toasts my lil cookies about freestuff...The ones that have a license forbidding their use in anything that will be posted at Renderosity. (Hangover from an old flame war...OMG...How retarded...IMHO.) Pop...pop...pop!!!

I'm dumbfounded! In the phrase "No commercial use", which word is it that is confusing some of you guys? (my - my, now doesn't that sound snippy!) - but really, it could not be simpler or clearer. It does not say, or even imply, anything about "unless you give me credit". The only arugment that I've heard here that does seem to have merit is the problem of having to spend the money on bandwidth just to find out the terms of use. And that's something that could be fixed pretty easily (...for everyone except rcook that is). We have indicator buttons for Nudity & Violence, how about some in FreeStuff for commercial usage, i.e. unlimited, limited, & restricted or somesuch?

I can't help but be amazed at the repetition of the comment "if it says no commercial use I delete the file"... Has it never occurred to you people to ask? The larger majority of people who provide files have no problem with letting you use these things in renders commercial or otherwise. Some don't allow it, the majority do. What is the problem with spending a few seconds of your life to mail and ask. You might be amazed at how many people would appreciate that. The non-commercial use is primarily aimed at preventing people from using the files in store items. ie SELLING them on for profit that is not earned. The exact thing that has been happening and is happening. It's easier to just write "no commercial use" than to quantify it with different levels of "use". Just ask. A few seconds to send a mail and a few hours depending on time zone to get a reply. Shesh, if people can't plan their projects accordingly and are pushed by deadlines so tight they can't mail someone then get out of the business now while you still have some hair left. Sheesh. Where on earth did simple common decency ever go? ::wanders off incredulously::

Questor, I've been a member of the Poser communities for over two years. When I first started downloading Free Stuff (over a year before there was ANY store), most of it had restrictions prohibiting commercial use. In fact, when I was getting involved in a project that would be commercial, I made it a point of not using anything from Free Stuff, just to be safe. I actually think the number of items with those restrictions has gone down over the years. People (myself included) found it WAY to hard to enforce. I do have a commercial use restriction on one of my free things because it is based on a licensed character. The rest is free of restrictions on artwork made with it. The whole idea behind Free Stuff to begin with was for a way for casual Poser users to share their hobby with other casual users, not to fill a professional artist's library. Like I said, I don't put restrictions on most of my stuff, but neither am I going to begrudge those that do.

Of those responding to this thread these have stuff in Free Stuff: Comments For Artistic Commercial Use: Bloodsong, Spudgirl, Visual Kinetics, odeathoflie, Marque, steveshanks, shadowcat Comments Against Artistic Commercial Use: Nance, Doozy I guess I've been hasty. Somehow I've gotten it into my mind that when someone puts non-com in there they mean it. I guess I judged (perhaps wrongly) that permission meant that the artist was generally against the idea. It really never occurred to me to ask permission. Somehow I just thought it was put in there because they were serious about it and that I would have to convince them to change their mind. I e-mailed some Free Stuff artists asking what they meant by non-commercial. Many probably won't be waking up for another 8 hours. Email is instant but people still work by the sun. Poor Iso and Kozo are probably scratching their heads wondering about my English usage not to mention our friends in the UK where they supposedly understand Americans:) . At any rate I've only heard from 1 of the many e-mails I've put out. I'll start a separate thread later with the responses.

here is part of the readme to a model of mine: "Chelsea Rae is free to use in ANY NON-COMMERCIAL picture. Chelsea Rae cannot be used in ANY COMMERCIAL artwork without prior written consent from ME (cookie@faerieguild.com). Chelsea Rae is a FREE model and is intended to stay that way, do not sell or re-distribute in part or in whole this model or it's props." my reason behind this is simple, even though I'm likely to let people use my stuff for free comercially, I'm an aspiring artist, and the model is my creation, that I feel I deserve credit for. The only way I have of attempting to make sure everyone plays fair is to do this. This is just my way of doing things, does it really seem that unreasonable? Cookie

Questor and Cookie. It's not that I don't or won't email the author if I use a product. I usually download something with no real purpose at the time. I might not use it for months... By then if I install it, I will forget who and where I got it. Although I always try and keep the zip files, not all name the zips the same as the model, sometimes I lose the zip, all readme's are labeled readme's. Do I write them right away and get a blanket okay? THe exception is for alice hair and the rest of his (sorry can't spell his name and too lazy to go look) I do have it and I have written him the two times I used it and he is very nice. But as a rule, I'd rather delete rather than mess up. I never want to be accused of stealing just because I forgot. Poppi, I wish... I wish I could make models. Just can't seem to grasp it no matter how many tutorials I do. Not all of us are that talented. I can and do textures. I also paint most of my clothes. But, models... I can barely make a sphere ~L~ kidding...honest, I can do that. But to just say "make your own." only makes people like feel like an idiot. Perhaps I am, but... don't keep pointing it out.

Well I for one absolutley hate it when people name their readme's "readme" cause they tend to get overwritten that way. You will never find any readme from me with that name. grin As far as telling people to "make their own" that does seem a little harsh to me, as everyone isn't capable. I'm decent (I think) at making models, but ask me to make a texture and you'll get a 2000x2000 white image I'm really that bad at it. (heh) I simply ask people to make textures for me and usually a few people in this wonderful community reply to my request :) It may be a good idea if you need something for a commercial project to just ask people if they can make it for you for commercial use as soon as you figure out that you need it, cause almost everyone here is REALLY generous. Just a thought, Cookie

uh, jamball77, I'm not clear what you mean by "against artistic commercial use". My initial comment merely addressed those posts above which indicated subjective interpretations of what, IMHO, appear to be very precise and unequivocal restrictions on usage. I was surprised to read that some felt that "No Commercial Use" did not apply to images, or was not applicable if credit was given. and btw, while I personally have no restrictions included in my stuff posted here or on my site, I do believe an author should have the right to do so if he so pleases.

AFAIK an author has the right to set any restictions on work derived from theirs that they want, and also the right to state that their work may not be edited (for example: someone taking a photo into adobe and painting over it) like I said that's only AFAIK. Cookie

Hmm. What if your image wasn't originally intended to be commercial, but the opportunity later arose to make money from it? Just ask permission, you'll probably say. But what if your image involves a LOT of freestuff, say a street filled with parked cars? Are you suggesting that the artist track down and contact the creator of EVERY SINGLE CAR? And since those cars are probably based on real models, would the modeler really have any rights anyway, since they can't exactly claim to hold a copyright on a model of, say, a Ford Mustang? Just a hypothetical example here, but one that could certainly apply to SOMEONE. Just model it yourself, you say. Fine, if your just doing a couple simple objects. But what about the street scene? One lone artist modeling every car, every building, every streetlight, traffic sign, trash can, candy wrapper on the sidewalk, etc.?

Let me say that I have indeed started modeling my own stuff, and I hope to share some freebies with the community as soon as I'm able. And I certainly won't be putting any restrictions on my stuff, other than no selling the actual model, of course, but then I think that's a no-brainer. I think that anyone who's that worried about the possibility that someone might make a buck from a picture with their model in it shouldn't bother with freebies. Personally, I'd be flattered that anyone thought my model was good enough for commercial work. And really, people, like someone said earlier, Dreamworks ain't that desperate. We're talking about small-time artists, members of our little community here.

I do want to add this: I think you should certainly give credit when possible, and even notify the creator if you can. I mean, if someone used a model I created, I'd be interested in seeing what they did, commercial or not. But as I pointed out in my example above, sometimes it may not be feasible to credit and notify every single contibutor when you're dealing with a lot of stuff, nor to build it all yourself. Hell, to create a graphic novel, as many people have (though I don't think anyone here has ever made any money off that...), with lots of real world locations...you're essentially talking about building EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD!!! Don't expect a sequel...

"I think that anyone who's that worried about the possibility that someone might make a buck from a picture with their model in it shouldn't bother with freebies." "I think you should certainly give credit when possible, and even notify the creator if you can. I mean, if someone used a model I created, I'd be interested in seeing what they did, commercial or not. But as I pointed out in my example above, sometimes it may not be feasible" I don't think anyone has a problem with somone making a buck from a picture with their model. And alot of people here use freebies that can't be used commercially because art is a hobbie for them, and those types of people couldn't care less what commercial restrictions something has. I think some people here just have a problem with not wanting to giving credit where it's due. The reason I say that is this. I'm not sure (since I don't do commercial stuff) if daz has commercial use restrictions on their freebies, I doubt they do. BUT I'm sure if they did, since they are a buisness with enough money to possibly sue a person that you would find it quite important to keep your readme that came with stuff like "plastic plane #109" (or whatever) so that you would know to NOT use the plastic plane in next month's "big project". I see alot of people here acting like it's too hard for them to keep the readme files for the models that they download for free. I think it's rediculous personaly. JMO. Cookie

There's a is difference between non-distribution clauses and non-commercial clauses. Here's how I've always understood it: Non-commercial clause: you can not use this item in any way that will directly result in you being paid for it. (If someone likes the image and commissions you to create a new image which does not use the item in any way, that does not violate the agreement.) Non-distribution clause: means you can not offer up the item to another person, whether or not you make money on it. No commercial distribution clause: toss the item around how ever you want, offer it on your site, email it to the world, etc., so long as you do not make any money from the distribution of the item. All of my stuff has non-distribution clauses but there's no restriction on how the models are used in the rendered output. If you make a million bucks from an image with my models in it, feel free to cut me in for a percentage, but it's not required. But, please feel free to do so ... I'll be your best friend. ;-}~

Good points, Crescent. And in the belief that all good threads must come to an end, this is my last post to this one, I promise. But I thought I would point out that comments # This is a comment can be added to .obj files. Modelers and artists may find this helpful. It obviously is a burden, as libraries grow and file systems get rearranged, to keep READ_MEs with their respective models. So if modelers got in the habit of adding a simple comment near the beginning of their .obj file, and artists got in the habit of reading them (wordpad will do) then no one would be in the awkward position of wondering if they could use it or who they had gotten it from when they went to do a project. And I believe text can be placed in any spare white space in a texture map to the same effect (am I right here? I'm not a texture mapper). Worth considering? jon

As far as readme's being a burden, I have a read-me directory in my poser folder. It's not that hard to rename the readme to something that will let you know what its for and toss it in there is it? I mean people spend sometimes month's working on new poser characters, is it too hard for the end user to spend a few seconds moving and renaming the readme? If so that's pretty screwed up! Cookie

heyas; i know you're trying to finish up, but i just want to point out something that was pointed out on another thread about commercial use. if the txt file does not say ANYTHING about usage rights, distribution rights, etc etc, then that means you do NOT have the right to use it commercially or to distribute it. in other words, the txt file has to explicitly give you permission to use things in this way, or you don't have it.

Question: If someone says they do not care if anyone makes money off of their free stuff and they eventually end up "dumpster dining", would they still have the same attitude? Sign me, Just curious.