Hello;

I have this big dilema:

I am in search of a light set or global illumination set that will make my renders look good no matter what.

I have tried IDL Studio 2 by Colm...and it gives excellent results with portraits and close ups...the only set back is that i cant use any backdrops or big outdoor scenes or environments because these will all interfere with the IDL cove...and if i disable the cove or make it invisible then i can add all the outdoor scenes and backdrops...but the quality of the light dedreases...because the cove is not visible anymore.

I am looking for a Global illumination set that is great for outdoor environments and also great for portraits at the same time...in other words a general light/env set that is really all purpose.  Because i have realized that all these IDL sets that are out there are great...but they are all mostly specifically designed for exclusively the making of portraits...it can even be seen in all the promo images...you can never see a portrait of a character with a background scene like for example The Backstreets or any other environment...the focus with all these IDL sets is purely the character itself.

As can be seen here:

http://www.runtimedna.com/IDL-STUDIO-2.html

So...in conclusion...is there any set out there from which you can get the best from both worlds...both portraits and environments for Poser.

thanks for viewing.

Sheedee

I have the same problem.  Lighting is the hardest element for me.  I can get all my props and characters set up, change textures in the material room, and use the cloth room easily enough.  But, when I go to render, something is always wrong and I spend more time trying to get good lighting.  Very rarily am I 100% happy.  I feel your pain.

So I am a lurker on this thread, hoping someone will come to your rescue (and mine).

This is a problem for almost everyone.  I've fought Poser and DAZ Studio for years trying to get lighting correct.  There are some pretty good tutorials here and at DAZ, but I've found that most of them require an existing knowledge of lighting.

I hope i'm not speaking out of turn, but i think what you are asking for is impossible to provide. A one stop lighting rig that will encompass every lighting need and enviroment.

I think purely because lighting itself is so complex, I'm no light guru in fact i'm pretty useless in setting up my lighting and it takes an eternity of rendering, rerendering to get anywhere near to someting i'm happy with.

I mean that for instance sunlight is going to affect a scene much differently than moonlight, indoor light, flame, reflected light etc etc etc. Especially if you use the Indirect light feature and raytracing, I really think it's a matter of what works for you and nowadays i tend to use no more than 3 lights, one infinite with bb's light dome and either one or two points and/or spots.

I'd start by building a globe to illuminate your set in. Poser gets better with each build. Once you understand HDRs or sIBL you can cover basic indirect lighting.

No such thing as a one stop lighting setup that will work everywhere, it's usually easier to build from scratch

".....because these will all interfere with the IDL cove...and if i disable the cove or make it invisible then i can add all the outdoor scenes and backdrops...but the quality of the light dedreases...because the cove is not visible anymore."

***You can scale up the dome/cove to fit your scene. And/or, you can use visible in raytracing/light emitter, but not in scene/camera - to have it work but not visible - read the manual on these functions.

I believe it is impossible to do as asked for a very simple reason; the lighting effects you find 'perfect' may not be what I need for a particular scene. There will never be a 'one size fits all' solution.

I do think that there are some things that could be considered in future iterations of Poser. Two that I think would be very powerful in combination would be:

1. create a proper functioning camera, with aperture settings. Those of us that know cameras can fiddle with f stops and the like, while those who don't could use default 'daylight', 'indoor', 'night' settings for a general starting point. The inclusion of an aperture setting would mean we no longer have to push the infinite light to 800%... instead the default light could include a 'sun' (kinda like Carrara) that can be colour set for time of day, even for overcast, and we then pay attention to what comes 'through' the camera.

2. Realtime, accurate lighting levels in the preview window. I don't care if it's greyscale, just let me see the lights and darks.

OP,

Don't listen to anyone who says it can't be done. IT CAN BE DONE, unfortunatelY I can't share the workflow because my boss wants to sell it instead of give it out for free.

The problem is that it took me SEVEN days of research.  Seven day learning curve for something that should of been ready to go when you first purchase Poser Pro.

The OP is 100% right. Smith Micro failed by not offering a simple IDL lighting solution for the most basic of scenes. Outdoor (day, night), Indoor (day, night). 

But trust me, it can be done.

No, it really cannot be done with one and the same light set. This should not be a surprise when you think about it. In real life, outdoor light sourcing is very different from indoors, especially a portrait studio where there are no windows. The only time an outdoor lighting setup ought to work for indoor scenes is if you're trying to capture a "natural light" scene in a room set up with a realistic relationship to the outdoors. You're going to need a pretty good IDL mastery to get that to work well, though.

Quote - No, it really cannot be done with one and the same light set. This should not be a surprise when you think about it. In real life, outdoor light sourcing is very different from indoors, especially a portrait studio where there are no windows. The only time an outdoor lighting setup ought to work for indoor scenes is if you're trying to capture a "natural light" scene in a room set up with a realistic relationship to the outdoors. You're going to need a pretty good IDL mastery to get that to work well, though.

This is true, I have two different light sets that cover most basic scenes.  It can't be just one.

So it can't be done in a one size fits all solution, which is what I said. I also said if Poser provided a proper camera function you could have a 'sun' light similar to Carrara which would provide a baseline for further adjustment with camera settings for exterior and interior scenes.

Seven whole days of research, huh? My heart bleeds. I'm a PhD candidate. Try spending 4 YEARS on researching a question, then I might think you are doing some work. I also lecture business students in entrepreneurship because R&D on new tech takes on average 3 to 5 years to reach a market ready position, so they need to anticipate the market by that margin to ensure their work will pay off. 7 days? Please...

Quote - So it can't be done in a one size fits all solution, which is what I said. I also said if Poser provided a proper camera function you could have a 'sun' light similar to Carrara which would provide a baseline for further adjustment with camera settings for exterior and interior scenes.

Carrara has a sun light? Hmm, that's pretty cool.  But yea I agree with you. No one size fits all. But two light sets can work for a majority of basic scenes.

Quote - Seven whole days of research, huh? My heart bleeds. I'm a PhD candidate. Try spending 4 YEARS on researching a question, then I might think you are doing some work.

As long as you get paid for those 4 years more power to you.

Quote - I also lecture business students in entrepreneurship because R&D on new tech takes on average 3 to 5 years to reach a market ready position, so they need to anticipate the market by that margin to ensure their work will pay off. 7 days? Please..

You're basically saying that anyone who buys Poser Pro won't be able to crank out a high quality render unless they put in 4 years of research.

I say that anyone can crank out an intermediate, high quality render after seven days of hard research, 56 hours. I repeat, you SHOULD notice a tremendous diference in a quality of a render if that person pumps 56 hours into researching of IDL & SSS.

You gotta remember, when dude buys poser he wants to make high quality renders fast.  If I was worknig at smith micro I would've made a quick IDL kit for new users so they can have fun and enjoy their product. You SAY you teach business but you don't seem to understand the end users needs. The OP is a perfect example of the majority of Posers audience. Smith Micro has failed to identify their target audience by not providing a basic IDL light setup.

Smith Micro FAILS. If anyone takes that personally, that is your problem not mine. I'm telling the blatant truth with no sugar coating.

No, that's not what I said. I agree that Poser is a work in progress. A lot of years have gone into it already, but we should all keep in mind that all early versions of 3D software were as limited by the computing power and architecture of the machine as it was by the elegance (or not) of the code. Some are clearly better than others, and Poser is a relatively cheap and relatively easily accessible piece of software with lots of commercial and free stuff to expand it so we don't have to do everything from scratch. Poser doesn't fail, but it could be better. Some of the issue is that Poser is not and has never been a part of the 'high end', but our expectations are moving faster than the software. Like others, I get a tad frustrated by people asking for the 'one button to make art' solution. You can't. Decades ago I studied commercial photography. 2 years playing with cameras, lights and chemicals. The one button solution equivalent is setting the camera to auto and letting it tell you whether you can take that picture or not. Such a function would be useful to some while they learn, and again I direct you to my first post; it is what I said... a proper simulation of a camera would be helpful with realtime lighting level indication.

My comment regarding the research were in response to the emphasis you put on spending 7 days on a question. 7 days is nothing. It was directed at your comment in particular, not the average Poser user. I think 56 hours of directed work on Poser would help someone understand it, and if that was the intent of your comment I agree with you. It was not how you expressed it. As to being paid, I'm fine. A few hundred an hour as a lecturer, a few grand a day as a consultant... I work on average 2 days a week and am comfortable. Lots of playtime for hobbies, and time to do my research. I have no shares in Smith Micro. No problem for me what you think of it, other than to question what you are doing here if you dislike it so...

I don't sugar coat either.

Quote - No, that's not what I said. I agree that Poser is a work in progress. A lot of years have gone into it already, but we should all keep in mind that all early versions of 3D software were as limited by the computing power and architecture of the machine as it was by the elegance (or not) of the code. Some are clearly better than others, and Poser is a relatively cheap and relatively easily accessible piece of software with lots of commercial and free stuff to expand it so we don't have to do everything from scratch. Poser doesn't fail, but it could be better. Some of the issue is that Poser is not and has never been a part of the 'high end', but our expectations are moving faster than the software. Like others, I get a tad frustrated by people asking for the 'one button to make art' solution. You can't. Decades ago I studied commercial photography. 2 years playing with cameras, lights and chemicals. The one button solution equivalent is setting the camera to auto and letting it tell you whether you can take that picture or not. Such a function would be useful to some while they learn, and again I direct you to my first post; it is what I said... a proper simulation of a camera would be helpful with realtime lighting level indication.

My comment regarding the research were in response to the emphasis you put on spending 7 days on a question. 7 days is nothing. It was directed at your comment in particular, not the average Poser user. I think 56 hours of directed work on Poser would help someone understand it, and if that was the intent of your comment I agree with you. It was not how you expressed it. As to being paid, I'm fine. A few hundred an hour as a lecturer, a few grand a day as a consultant... I work on average 2 days a week and am comfortable. Lots of playtime for hobbies, and time to do my research. I have no shares in Smith Micro. No problem for me what you think of it, other than to question what you are doing here if you dislike it so...

I don't sugar coat either.

Well said man cheers :)  It's good to see people on this forum who don't get so easily butt hurt.

Quote - OP,

Don't listen to anyone who says it can't be done. IT CAN BE DONE, unfortunatelY I can't share the workflow because my boss wants to sell it instead of give it out for free.

The problem is that it took me SEVEN days of research.  Seven day learning curve for something that should of been ready to go when you first purchase Poser Pro.

The OP is 100% right. Smith Micro failed by not offering a simple IDL lighting solution for the most basic of scenes. Outdoor (day, night), Indoor (day, night). 

But trust me, it can be done.

Get your story straight. Screaming about how it can be done and that you've got a for sale solution followed in your very next post by the statement it can't be done without a two set up solution. Are there no threads left on this board where you haven't offered your two cents worth of vitrol and misdirection? That's a retorical question. We all know the answer.

Quote - > Quote - OP,

Don't listen to anyone who says it can't be done. IT CAN BE DONE, unfortunatelY I can't share the workflow because my boss wants to sell it instead of give it out for free.

The problem is that it took me SEVEN days of research.  Seven day learning curve for something that should of been ready to go when you first purchase Poser Pro.

The OP is 100% right. Smith Micro failed by not offering a simple IDL lighting solution for the most basic of scenes. Outdoor (day, night), Indoor (day, night). 

But trust me, it can be done.

 

Get your story straight. Screaming about how it can be done and that you've got a for sale solution followed in your very next post by the statement it can't be done without a two set up solution. Are there no threads left on this board where you haven't offered your two cents worth of vitrol and misdirection? That's a retorical question. We all know the answer.

Technically he can achieve both studio and outdoor with one light set.  But ultimately if he wants to cover more basic scenes, you'll need two different light sets.  Hope this helps.

The answer to this question is pretty simple : Go outside.
How many suns do you see in the sky?

What is the sun??? => The sun is ONE infinite light.

So to render with IDL and GC?? (as you should always do)

Load BB's free sphere, load a good texture on it of about 10.000 wide to 5.000 pixels high, and put ONE infinite light at the suns position and set it  between 65 and 75% intensity.

That is the ONLY valuable light set for outdoor renders.
And you have control of the IDL with the HSV node on BB's sphere.

And that did not take me a week to figure out.

=> There is NO second sun in the sky.
=> And NO there is no image on the sun either. ( IBL is OLD fake. Forget it. )

Happy Posering,
Tony

Well, technically, Tony, the sun is not an infinite light (there is no such thing, unless you count God). But from the distance and power of the sun... an infinite light may be the closest thing we can use to fake it.

Yes you are right, but this is Poserearth in Poserworld :-)