Blasphemy! The Gods of Poser hath decreed that said Nekkid Vicky MUST have a Sword in that Temple. I suppose an exception might be made if she has a sword in one hand while eating the Sandwhich in the other. I will petition for you.... :-)

Quote - I tink a lot of ppl are missin' the big picture. (Well... is purdy big to me, anyway.)

"... if I wanna do Nekkid Vicky In A Temple With A Sammich, I gonna do it."

Anyone who has looked at Poser renders can easily spot a Daz Victoria no matter which version of Victoria was used unless someone has taken the time to try to make his or her character something more than ordinary... This is rare.

Quote - Anyone who has looked at Poser renders can easily spot a Daz Victoria no matter which version of Victoria was used unless someone has taken the time to try to make his or her character something more than ordinary... This is rare.

This doesn't mean that is even difficult though, It just means that most image posters can't be bothered, just like they can't be bothered to change the default lighting, or even use shadows hahahaha.

It's just like X-Factor where most contestants can't be bothered to learn how to sing.

Quote - > Quote - Anyone who has looked at Poser renders can easily spot a Daz Victoria no matter which version of Victoria was used unless someone has taken the time to try to make his or her character something more than ordinary... This is rare.

This doesn't mean that is even difficult though, It just means that most image posters can't be bothered, just like they can't be bothered to change the default lighting, or even use shadows hahahaha.

It's just like X-Factor where most contestants can't be bothered to learn how to sing.

That's kind of true, isn't it? You don't need to know how to sing to win xfactor and such, you just need to be popular. Same with poser/ds, you don't need to know how to use lights, morphs, textures, shadows and such.... as long as you're popular, people with tell you how awesome your crappy image is. So, why should you put in all the effort?

*"This doesn't mean that is even difficult though, It just means that most image posters can't be bothered, just like they can't be bothered to change the default lighting, or even use shadows hahahaha."*Ah, but their money spends just fine - helping to ensure that Poser continues to exist for the artistes & nerdistes to enjoy :-)

Who needs reality anyway? I find the latest 'Woman Who Looks Like Barbie,'  Valeria Lukyanova, not unattractive - or as they say down home, I wouldn't kick her out for eating crackers in bed. I don't think I'd care for a WWLLDV (Woman Who Looks Like Default Vickie), but some of the character morphs wouldn't send me running in RL. I suspect that Snooki is merely an unsuccessful attempt at a RL version of The Girl.

Ya gotta wonder what deep dark weird stuff is going on in the mind of a person that would do that to themselves. I can't imagine....

Laurie

Here in Belgium, there is a guy that had over 50 face corrections done to look like Michael Jackson.....

Some "fools" do things like that, male or female.
In my humble opinion, they are sick and need help.

Or to be protected from themselves.

He used morph++ pack. Most of us are default figures:)

Hear! hear!

That's what surprises me every time. Default settings for the win! sarcasm mode off

Again, I believe that one can do a lot with V4, if one wants. Not only morphs but textures help a lot.

I believe the key is in basing the characters on real-life people.  

Nice work.

Or real life proportions. A lot of the character sets for sale are stylized with over exagerated features.

Quote - Or real life proportions. A lot of the character sets for sale are stylized with over exagerated features.

Like the Fat Busted Lip and No-Nose syndromes. LOL Poor girl ;).

Laurie

Again, there's nothing wrong with over-exagerated proportions if you're aiming for fantasy.

I guess the main problem that started the thread was that V4  (and most Poser/DAZ models for that matter) is easily recognized for what she is in gallery pictures.

Because people do not want / need to modify her features perhaps. I guess body is secondary in that judgement - i usually recognize V4 through the clothing items ;)

But it's the same with m4, Gen 3 figures, Sydney, etc. Out of the box (or with minimal alternations) they are easily recognizable.

What is more: Alice, by Aery Soul. Looks nothing like V4 in both body and face. is not realistic. And yet, it is recognizable on the spot. Same with Danae's characters, Thorne characters... They are all extremely beautiful, yet every semi-experienced Poser/DAZ user knows that these items were used in a render.

Is it a bad thing? It may be when you're struggling for originality.

When I do my online comic, i try to make the characters as original as possible (so that you wouldn't scream "Victoria 4 with Sarsa's morph!" when you see them).

on the other hand I love celebrity morphs. I'd rather have people scream "hey, he looks kind of like Zachary Quinto!" than "It looks like M3 with that-and-that texture".

Again, it's all a matter of personal taste.

We may have a contest and try to put a portrait up and have people guess which model was used ;) 

We may have a contest and try to put a portrait up and have people guess which model was used ;)

Well, guess :-)

I would say Antonia... or Alyson / Alyson Low Res ;)

I may be completely wrong ;) 

Judy, poser 5...... that would be my guess.

No Antonia
No Alyson
And, I do not play with V's. :-)

She became angry when I was testing a V. :-) :-) :-)

Negative, no Judy either.

It's the Poser Pro female figure - the sorta unfinished one guys. You can do what ya want with it. vilters made it lower res I guess, even tho ultra low res ain't my thang. I think it looks rather blowupdoll-ish. But whatever floats ur boat. LOL.

vilters knows he and I don't see eye to eye about the resolution thing :P. All in good fun. LOL

Laurie

Well, she came out pretty nice, IMO ;) And not easy to pinpoint, another plus.

Spot on.

This is the Poser-Pro-Lo-Res figure in all of her 7.950 Poly's.

It is a FBM, not a single vertex stayed where it was.
And all the rigging got a complete makeover.

Here a From => To picture  to compare both.

Actually, it is not a FBM.

I used the original object file to morph in Hexagon.
Then I edited the cr2 to point to the reworked object file.
Then I had to remake all facial expressions.

But she could be used as a FBM on the original.

But I like lean and clean files. :-)

The texture is also a workover of the original, plus some math room work.

In Poser there are 2 groups: Morphers and dial spinners :-)

Blender and Hex are free, I use Hexagon.

I am a X,Y,Z morpher. :-) :-) :-)

Yep, they would make great background figures :)

Laurie

Then I will come to play in your background / yard... :-)

Quote - Then I will come to play in your background / yard... :-)

vilters, I didn't know you cared! Ahahahahahaha!!!!

Quote - Yep, they would make great background figures :)

Laurie

Is there WW or MC support for it? If not I really do not see the point of using it.

Quote - > Quote - Yep, they would make great background figures :)

Laurie

Is there WW or MC support for it? If not I really do not see the point of using it.

Yanno, I really have no idea if there is or not. LOL. Never used em ;) But I'm sure vilters knows. Heh.

Laurie

To do some SERIOUS X,Y,Z morphing, you need space.
You NEED room to move the poly's in.

And you have to pay close attention on what you are doing with the uv mapping.

There are 3 rules you HAVE follow:

• Even poly distribution. => A MUST!!!!
• Keep an eye on the uvmap and check and cross-check what you are doing.
• Keep a close eye at the rigging.

If in doubt? Go back to the object, or go back in the rigging.

The main problem with ALL hi poly figures is that they have a VERY UNEVEN poly distribution.

Making it very hard for SERIOUS X,Y,Z, morphers to find room to morph into.

There is no room left to move the vertex around.

---------SUPPORT --------- => See picture
NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Question : Do you NEED support? => NEED is in BOLD and underlined.

Answer : NO, you do not NEED support.  => NEED is in BOLD and underlined.

I used lots of different clothing on those figures.
using the cloth room to make them fit.
or using Blenders shrinkwrap to make them fit.
or using the morph brush to make them fit.
The options are endless.

Here a blouse from Nanette here in freestuff. (I do not remember what figure it was meant for, sorry)

Sounds like too much effort just to dress a BG character. The whole point of character innovation is a faster worklow, easy content support and use. This sounds like a step backwards. I don't have time to open two or 3 apps just to get stuff to fit properly. I would use something like this, but the workfow and effort involved for something basic such as clothing to fit is a no go for me. I might as well just Decimate V4 to the same polycount and use her.

We are derailing from the OP's question.

Answer to the OP:

STOP dial spinning, as you will stay with the same face anyway. :-(

START morphing. :-) :-) :-)

Use whatever figure you like best.

I only wanted to show what  "  can "  be done.
Yes LauriA, with only 7.950 poly :-):-):-):-)
We are free to agree or not to agree. :-) That is a great feeling. :-)

@Zevo

Using morph packs compared to actually making morphs on your own.
Is the same as:
Using existing clothing with WW or MC compared to making your own.

Making your own, morphs or clothing.
Compared to adapting existing morphs or clothing will take time.

For me? It is part of the hobby. Part of the fun. Part of the satisfaction.

Can I do this?
Can I do that?

And every time I learn something. :) :-)

In the pic are Bonnie North (aka Empress Bahottah) on the left and Siobahn the naughty elf on the right. Pierce Brosnan is just the head of a low poly, non-rigged obj stuck onto a tuxedo for the P4 male and hands added in.  Basically, Bond is a prop and was created for my tribute to James Bond's 50 years in cinema. :)

(edited for a typo ...)

A Smoothed object expands.. => Grows in size
A SubD object shrinks.. => Becomes smaller

My Lo res figure is smoothed (crease angle at 180) and my body suit was SubD in Hexagon.

Ha, just pure luck I do not need the nudity flag :-)

Now I can :

• remove the Smoothing on the figure ?

• remove the SubD from the suit ?

• put a mid gray displacement map on the suit ?

• rework the figure ?

• rework the suit ?
  Thats, for tonight.
  PS, its still the same PoserPro-LO-Res figure from above.

And???? She has some sisters too.. :-)))
LaurieA? Where was that backyard again??? :-))) They wanna play...

Imported in Poser seperadly.
Exported together as one obj file.
Imported the combined obj file, and went to the setup room to conform to PPro-Lo-Res.

No textures yet.

All you see are shaders.

Still no textures, all procedural shaders. :-)

Happy Posering
Tony

So?
Anybody telling me you NEED Miss Gray Blubber or any other V???
You can see yourself out :-)

Quote - So?
Anybody telling me you NEED Miss Gray Blubber or any other V???
You can see yourself out :-)

Like you said before, you're derailing this thread with... this.

I'm sorry, but with this you're just not giving that good an example. Just seems a lot of effort for something that will always be in the background and doesn't look very good up close. I'm not sure what you're advocating with low poly girls that need lots of work on the face, but this isn't advocating the subject of proper faces at all.

"This" is clothing, that covers the body. :-)

"This" is clothing that can be worn on the streets. :-)

With "this" clothing you can stay out of prison. :-)

Did I mention it is warm insulated whool leather?

My point?

STOP dial spinning.
START making.

If I can do this with my limited tools?
Everybody can.

Have a nice day. :-)

As the late Sam Kinnison said - fantasizing on being sodomized by a mortician postmortem - "It never ends!!"

I've found the thread...interesting...so far.  Both surprised and not surprised at the disdain for dial spinning, though.  I'd argue a lot of the issue stems from simply not even attempting variance.  I'm still curious about whether the OP was speaking out against Same Face Syndrome or if it was a comment on otherwise professional images using dead, soulless expressions.

Quote - The main problem with ALL hi poly figures is that they have a VERY UNEVEN poly distribution.

I don't know what high poly characters you have been working with, but I have some that are within 8% surface area per face. (including the head)

The attached one is a tad over 18% variance (not including the head on this one). And it is done that way on purpose so the morphs reduce the variance difference if you go to more of a pinup character. This started out as the Sydney G2 mesh, it can use 3 different UV setups by swapping out displayed body parts. I have 3 versions of it, low, medium, and high rez like pictured. They are not simple subdivisions, there are substantial differences to the meshes, but they all share the same topology, clothes, and joint centers. I have completely bone driven versions (Blend Shaping) for Poser as well.

I am in the process of doing this with an entirely new mesh as well. Aiming for 5% variance.

...

Depending on what you are doing with a character, you may or may not want even poly distribution. In Poser, it doesn't really matter in the end because you can't easily swap UVs on most characters anyway.

If UV swapping is needed you have to set it up like the old (P2) characters, and basically have 2 or more of each body part in the cr2. Swapping them out with weight mapping is murder to set up as well. You will be renaming a lot of maps....

UV swapping will get rid of a lot of texture stretching at the joints, and the higher the mesh resolution is, the less stretch you will get if it is weight and UV mapped to take that into account.

To me a low poly character is all but useless in Poser because it is not handled as a control cage.

Using them in programs that support control cages is another story. You all but want a low poly version then.

The biggest difference between the two is how you get details to show up on the characters. In Poser you can use displacement maps on low poly characters, but it wont work as well as it does in a program that can do selectable levels of subdivision or use a particle system.

Right now in Poser, you are better off with a higher poly count than you are using a low count and displacement.

Quote - My point?

STOP dial spinning.
START making.

If I can do this with my limited tools?
Everybody can.

Have a nice day. :-)

You mentioned start making, so start making some characters. If you can do the clothes, you can do a character.

....back to regular thread topic....

Jeezus... What does any of this have to do with the topic? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

Why don't you two guys start your own threads?  The thread is about FACES, not low poly characters, their clothes and/or whatever derailer you decide to throw in.  So, start by "making" a NEW thread and post anything you want to your heart's content because it will be YOUR thread...

The question was; Why do all V4 faces look alike???

I showed that :

1: You do not NEED a V to build a character.
If the end user takes the time he/she can make about any figure out of any mesh.
Some creators made beautifull characters for other base meshes then a V.

2: You do not NEED a zillion poly's to build a character or to morph a face.
Again, it does NOT take hi poly count to get a usable result.

3: But I am against the adoration of a mesh, that is not THATgood at all to begin with.
A mesh that only became popular in a time where there was NOcompetition for too long a time.

4; But I understand it is a lost cause.

Nobody else want to cook any more.
Everybody goes to Mc Donalds.
And then complains why all the food tastes the same.

Happy Posering.

Tony

Quote - The question was; Why do all V4 faces look alike???

I showed that :

1: You do not NEED a V to build a character.
If the end user takes the time he/she can make about any figure out of any mesh.
Some creators made beautifull characters for other base meshes then a V.

2: You do not NEED a zillion poly's to build a character or to morph a face.
Again, it does NOT take hi poly count to get a usable result.

3: But I am against the adoration of a mesh, that is not THATgood at all to begin with.
A mesh that only became popular in a time where there was NOcompetition for too long a time.

4; But I understand it is a lost cause.

Nobody else want to cook any more.
Everybody goes to Mc Donalds.
And then complains why all the food tastes the same.

Happy Posering.

Tony

 

No, honestly you derailed this thread with a ugly character and had nothing to do with the subject. So I agree with the person above. And you've shown the same renders of your low poly things in multiple threads, including one specific for your topic when generally serve no purpose but to derail. So there's no need to show them here, just update your previous thread. When you've made your girls faces well enough to be used in context of a face comparable to the subject, I'm sure more people would entertain your arguments. But it seems like you're trolling the V4 subject with non-v4 stuff. Maybe using those skills against a v4 to show proper faces and how you would like her to be, like the subject of the thread states, would be more in line.

Are you Crazy? He will have a fit with all those polys:) But in all honesty I respect what he is doing, however this thread is not the place to show it, unless it is V4 related. I could easily post a crap load of custom Genesis face morphs, but it has no relation to what the thread topic is about.

Go play with Missy Gray Blubber Doll in DS.
She is as relevant here as mine is.

I'm not sure what happened to this thread. It's entered into truly bizarre territory. OP wants to know why we don't use "proper" (and one assumes he means, "realistic") faces for V4, and 4 pages later we're exhorted to use a plastic manniquin instead.

Vilters, why not show us what you can do with the face? Make a celebrity morph and texture. Make your figure look human. Don't respond by saying the ratio of her calf to her thigh is more correct that V4's etc, etc. Or that she's better because she's not 8 heads tall or has breasts that move with the arms. Make your figure LOOK human. When you've done that, it will belong in this thread.