this is a poser pro 12 character that i'm not sure what it is, does, or what your supposed to do with it. my guess is that it is some kind of starting point to creating original characters from within poser and then maybe modify outside of poser and then modify body parts and then bring them back in as morphs. u can of course do this with any poser character many that are less basic and more attractive than the dev obj male or female. when i do this though and i enter some contest or contract for a job that asks for only original resources i feel uneasy using a highly morphed character that was already developed before even if it may now look totally new. is that the point of this character? is there some special way it is supposed to work? i see it has it's own special little folder. i can't find any resources or tuts about this dev object. can someone clue me in with what's ggoing on with it.

Are you talking about the PoserPro Figures that come in Hi and Lo res, and have their own folder????

I agree with your uneasy feeling - if you use this to create some other character, you couldn't really claim that it is totally original for the purpose of a competition, no matter how much you morphed it. I haven't been able to do anything useful with these figures, but that is undoubtedly due to my limited skill.

The purpose was for end users to lean, and work with,  and morph, ans test Poser without disturbing or breaking the actual content.

This is how far I got with the Poserpro Lo Res, at about 8000 poly each.

I really thought I was the only one experimenting with these figures....... you never see or hear about them.

PS, when working with these Lo Poly figures, set crease angle at 180° in each groups parameters palette, and render with Smooth poly's ON in the render settings.

Happy posering
Tony

@ vilters, it looks like you've done your own customization on the figures and they look good!

I also like your eye for detail. I can see you have a hint of hip blade on the female figure which I've noticed on other figures is often overlooked. In your figure it adds a subtle nuance of realism to your character.

I was wondering, did you do it with and external modeler or with Posers' morph brush?

I have 5 different women like this.
And the male is a WIP.

I took the figure objects into Hexagon, morphed them there, then used uvmapper to get the uv and group data back.
Then I openend the cr2, saved under different names, and linked each of them to the newly morphed objects.

That way, the CR2's are lean and clean, and do not have to load extra morphs.
All Changes are inside the original object files.

But each one can be loaded into the other one as a full body morph. They are all compatible, so I can mix Full Body Morphs as required.
So I can mix Pascale, with Linda, with Simmy, with Wendy, and with Krista and get new ones :-)

I wrote a tutorial on "How to"  and it is in the Hexagon archive here at rendero.
Just search for my name in the Hexagon chapter :-)

Perhaps I"ll continue the male one day. :-)
One day. :-)

Hexagon , or Blender, both are free.
And uvmapper free to transfer the uv and goup data back.

All it takes is some time.
More time to learn the apps then to do the actual morphing.

For only 8.000 poly each?
I think it's not too bad.
And, ha ha ha =>  And they render lightning fast... :-)

And as you have the object file in Hex or Blender, at the same time you can build the clothing around them. They work splendid in the setup room for conforming clothes.

But?  I have to add:  I did change most of the rigging in Poser as well.

Thanks for the quick reply. (^.^) Pointing the CR2 at the changed .obj is a great idea for keeping the character lean and clean. It even sounds like the way it should be done and all characters.

Thanks for you information!

Here is the link, they are still there , not in the tutorials, I posted it in the Hexagon forum.. :-)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2855050

 Happy Posering.

The figures came with the ZBrush connection. 

The Poser License says:

'- “Unrestricted Content” means Content included with or part of the Program that is specifically identified in the Documentation or listed in this EULA as Unrestricted Content.  The following figure geometries and their associated textures are Unrestricted Content: low res male, low res female, medium res male, medium res female.'

'... Company grants you a limited, personal, nontransferable and nonexclusive license (without the right to sublicense):
a. To reproduce, prepare derivative works based upon, distribute, publicly display, and publicly perform the Unrestricted Content for any lawful purpose other than to create a product which is intended to compete with the Program or to create new content which is intended to compete with the Restricted Content. ...'

I read this, SM please correct me when I am wrong, as saying that you could use those figures to produce your own figures, which you are then free to distribute as long as they  are not part of a program intended to compete with Poser or figures pretending to be any of the Poser native figures. 

Any other interpretation would defy the purpose of this content. 

Actually I may be wrong. Shoot that email off to Tech Support. :D

I seem to recall reading that some of Phil Cooke's characters are based on these.  I don't have any installed right now, but I looked at Bob Cratchit's texture map and it looks pretty similar to that of these figures....

I don't have the PP2012 content, but by reading this thread does this mean that an artist can create custom figures with these meshes and utilize the poser rigging unrestricted use?

That's pretty awesome if so. Kinda like Poser figure primitives?

How is the rigging on these figs, BTW?

Iwould say rigging is "acceptable". Better then average Poser People.

But I did change it on the collars, shoulders, arms and thights because I morphed the figures..

I'm really not that handy with complex rigging, something I would love to become proficient with eventually (I have a lot of great reading matter on the subject).

It would be nice to be able to create some creatures or humanoid figures for poser concentrating on the sculptural aspects and making textures...Kind of like some of Oskarsson's original Poser figs.

"I would say rigging is "acceptable". Better then average Poser People."

Better than average Poser people is more than sufficient for a user like myself, thanks for the reply vilters. Are these the Figures you were referring to when you were discussing ideal poser mapping?

IMO, even if the Figs are unrestricted use, it would only be appropriate that credit be given to SM and the original artist in the event of distribution of derivitive work.

Yes, these where the figures that have, in my humble opinion, the best mapping of the lot.

And??  Poser can read and use 8192x8102 maps. :-)

But I am a fanatic in making things easy. So I also reduced the material zones into 4

• Body that includes all exept for what is below.
• Innermouth including theeth => Requires a different SSS group in the material room
• Lashes => requires a GC setting of 1
• Cornea => Requires a GC setting of 1 and another setup then the lashes.

The last 3 never require changing, while I play a lot with the body material.

So? I only need to play with the the Body material in the Math room. :-)

I"ll add a mat room setup from my other PC.

Upper right is the texture.
Goes into a HSV node to change Hue, Saturation, and Value if needed.

Fom HUE to a Displac-Math-Function to invert, and make a Black and White version that goes into a Displacement Blender where it gets combined with a touch of Turbulence at 0.3

That same Turbulence goes into a Blinn-Blender, where it gets combined with a Blinn-Math-Finction that made a grayscale texture of the original texture.

This Blinn-Blender goes into Altern_Spec Blinn node, that connects to the Alternate_Specular

From one single Diffuse texture in the upper right corner, I build a Displacement map and a Blinn/Specular map.  All inside the material room.

When i want a change, I hace control of all.
Texture with Hue, Saturation and Value.
The Blenders to mix the amount of Displacement and/or Spec/Blinn.

With a click or 2, I can change the whole figure.

Never spend more time in the math room.
Never worry why material goups look different.
They can not.

And I have quite a lot of variations, all dead easy to set up this way.

The dev figure has a single map similar to posette I guess. If you feel like it vilters do you think I could see a quick screen cap of the dev figs high res/low res mesh?

following.

filed your mat room image.

Just to show that I work with the LO res versions,  some 8.000 poly each.

But there are Hi Res versions also, male and female. (at around 31.000 poly each if my memory is right.)

Judging from the mesh of the lores fig, I imagine that the hires version is still significantly less polys than the daz figures?

=> Default texture provided is 4000x4000, with different eye/iris colors possible.

V4 is around 68.000???

The Hi Res dev figure has 31.000 poly

But? They are development figures to test with. They where never meant to be "production ready" figures.

They can be build into usable figures, but it takes a lot of "manhrs" to do so.

And the number of support items is zero point zero, point zero, point zero. :-)

You have to build it all.

Yep, V4 is like 68,000 give or take 500 poly's... Posette 17,000 thereabouts. The mapping and poly counts and topology of the dev figs is of most interest as I wouldn't be trying to make realistic people per se.

Thank you, vilters.

If you want to morph, they are perfect for that.

If you want to sculpt? I have to say, too few poly's for detailed work.
Or?
You can use Hexagon, or Blender or Zbrush, first morph, and then build a displacement map in there for the detail work.

And default?
There are some mesh problems that need to be corected first, mostly in the head.

Ps. as far as figure support, if needed I imagine the cloth room and a modeler would be sufficient. Being that they are dev figs, this would also serve as a donor .cr2?

The hi res version looks like a decent amount of polys to work with combined with displacement maps and textures.

And here the latest Lo Res 8.000 poly in the stable... :-)

Cloth room, hair room, both work.
Most available hairs works pretty well.

Add a modeler, and you are good to go.

Ps, still the same texture, but a bit af Math room work  :-) like the above example.

One final question and then off to dinner... Do these figs have upper and lower jaw body parts or is this simply grouped in with the Head body part? My only complaint about the Daz gen3 figures.

Good looking mat on that.

Suit was build as ungrouped object in Hexagon. (just one large suit no groups).

Rigged in Poser using setup room, and automatic grouping settings.

Took the time to open setup room, load the donor rig, agree to automatic grouping, delete the un needed bones, and back to Poser room.

It took more time to write this as to do it. :-)

No there are no separate upper and lower Jaw parts.

But I have to warn you.

In their default state? They are dead ugly as hell.....
And you have to rapair some mesh errors in the eyes, lashes and the head before you can actually start. Oh, and there is a mesh error at the bottom of the left index finger. :-) An easy one. :-)

But afterwards???
They can be the most user friendly figures you have ever seen.

Thank you again vilters, I've found that morphing of the kind I have in mind is easier with seperate body parts for the jaw.

"In their default state? They are dead ugly as hell....."

Just as a personal creative opinion, taking the ugly and making it beautifully is one of the great rewards of art making. Plus 'the eye of the beholder' thing, of course.

Yes, the satisfaction factor is huge. :-)

Make "something" from "nothing". :-)

But these figures are in a corner, and probably will stay there.

Not a soul is interested. :-)  V4/M4, thats where the $$$ are.

These Lo Res figures may be in a corner but perhaps some don't see the value in such beautiful lo res meshes for the many possible scenes that needs lots of background figures. The fact they can look this dang good at 8000 polys is amazing.

btw vilters by the way thanks for the link to your tutorial. :D

thanx guys u told me just what i wanted to hear and more. i have uv mapper pro. i have done a  lot of rigging mostly with monster characters. i was thinking about working with hexagon and maybe wings 3d just as you suggested and then setting the groups back up with uv mapper pro. i wasn't even talking about modeling original models (though i do this a lot with my robots and monsters.) but that would be great. i was actually though worried about using unoriginal 3d content (from other artists or directly from software)  to make original 2d content for contests that require that u only use original content to make your art. unorginal textures and brushes are acceptable for these contests but i worry about using 3d content that i have merely morphed to the point that it is unrecognizable as a poser figure. an example would be the deviant arts laura croft contest going on right now. i know daz has its new figures that you are supposed to make yourself but i have been away from daz since daz 4 came along.  still it is my understanding that genesis figures that u create yourself with daz and want to use in games require that you pay daz a certian amount of money for each game (not each game that is sold but a whole game) that the character is used in. this price is minimal i understand like five dollars (which may seem more than fair to pay five dollars for a character that may premiere in a game that grosses millions of dollars) but it is bothersome that the figures aren't your own property. perhaps i am being too cautious with the use of morphed poser charactrers in 2d work. much of my 2d work is actually freehand. if i do a freehand picture of a jesse model is this unacceptable in 2d contests because i didn.t draw from life or an original photograph? this could be a problem that the whole 3d community might want to address. is a 2d artwork created by inspired 3d art created by the 2d artist less original than a person who copies a photograph? 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you wish to use a poser model as a "model" for a contest image? The intent of the Poser software in the beginning was as an aid for artists who wished to work from models to create figurative work. Essentially a life drawing class in your computer with virtual models that the artist can light and pose for reference.

"is a 2d artwork created by inspired 3d art created by the 2d artist less original than a person who copies a photograph?"

nope.

Poser is an artist's tool first and foremost,  whether it be used as a reference or as a canvas in itself.  Realism, still-life, comics, pin up, whatever.  Beyond this it's difficult to speculate how others might perceive your use of the software.

Succinctly put Primorge.

When I used to make oil paintings, I based the compositions on collages I made from magazine cutouts.

Was the finished oil painting, or indeed the collage "sketch" piece, any less original than if I'd worked purely from pencil sketches? Nope, no less original. Just a different workflow.

That said, if I'd just painted a copy of a photo in magazine, verbatim, then there's probably a stronger argument that the composition of the finished oil painting was less than original. The execution would still have been original though... unless I'd copied another oil painting, stroke for stroke.

The way I see it a mesh is just a tool, like a paint brush, relative to composing a 2d image.

Of course, that's not to say there isn't a fine art to forging such a specialist tool... which can be a work of art in itself.

I guess a big part of the problem is this notion of originality. We are derivative creatures by our very nature, are we not? That's a good thing... it's why we survive... and indeed, so far, thrive, isn't it?

In terms of the new Daz Genesis tool... in the terms we're talking... anything you derive from this will be no more original than something derived from V4 or M4 or any of the figures from Smith Micro, or elsewhere.

The available licensing for using Genesis in a game context may be different from the licensing models offered for other figures. I don't know... not my area. Maybe it's no different... but yeah, it's not going to be royalty free to use in such a context.

In terms of using it in 2D renders, you're in exactly the same place, or a very similar place, in terms of originality versus derivation, that you'd be in using any of the earlier Daz figures, or any of the Smith Micro figures.

There are some open source options, like Antonia Polygon, too of course. That's always there to consider.

I'm not sure offhand what constraints or obligations there may be in Antonia's license relative to gaming? but as far as I understand it you'd be perfectly free to use her as a rigged starting point for creating another figure... am I right in understanding that?

If you're talking about competitions, for 2D imagery, made using 3D tools... if they expect you to make your own textures and brushes, by extension, I'd think they'd want you to make your own meshes.

However, that would be largely down to the specific rules and the person or people interpreting those rules, I guess... not some moral or philosophical ideas any of us might have ;)

usually in these contests brushes and textures are not expected to be original. if they were then you really couldn't use adobe photoshop to manipulate drawings and photos and they always want to make that tool available. using poser or daz though i'm not so sure they really want that. i can understand though how an art community of modelers might get miffed that a contest that they are promoting should allow the use of unoriginal meshes. which ofcourse is something that they work very hard to create and as someone said is an art form in and of itself. still this looks like it might get to be a standard restriction which i think would be a great slight to poser artists.  

I guess it's down to what the competition is seeking to judge?

e.g. modelling skill, rigging skill, composition skill, lighting skill.

I guess it's easier to judge, in many ways, if they just define a blanket rule that only original meshes can be used in a render.

Although, I still think unless you award marks in each of the above categories, methodically, you're likely judging apples against oranges... and both against cheese ;)

The "art establishment" (or rather those that seek to create such a thing) always seem to fall into these sorts of traps though, I guess.

the above is a highly subjective statement on my part, masquerading, unconvincingly, as an objective one... I suspect ;)

But anyway... the notion of art... and what makes good art... is so subjective.

Any organisation, body, academy, panel setting itself up to judge artwork... to make criteria for the acceptance of artwork as being valid... whether that organisation is the Ecole des Beaux-Arts or the CGSociety, or some group on DeviantArt... should, IMHO, always strive to remember this fact...

...I would have ticked the waffle advisory box for this post, but couldn't see it next to Language, Violence and Nudity ;)

3D is actually a mix of capabilities.

• an object file
• a rigging
• morphs, injections, ERC, EMC or add whatever letter combination you can imagine :-)
• and a texture to cover the lot.

**The development figures are exactly that , and are released as "Unrestricted content" as stated by Bagoas on page 1 here.
**
Development figures to inspire you all to experiment.

In the folder, you will find welded and non welded objects te test with.
They are an open invitation to hone your skills, and fine tune your workflow, before starting with the real content.
I would even say; They are ugly with a purpose. :-)

What ever you make with or from them can be distributed.

The only restrictions are-

• The meshes are SM property and you have to give credit in the read me
  - You can never use them to compete against SM in any way, form, or shape.

So?

• You can morph the hell out of the object files => Please do
• You can change, adapt, update, or upgrade the rigging => Please do
• You can rework the texture as you like, => Please do

And you can distribute what you make as long as you give credit to SM for the original, and do not start a competition business or apllication.

Happy Posering
Tony

Quote - ...
The only restrictions are-

• The meshes are SM property and you have to give credit in the read me

I do not think so. The "Content License" section of the manual does not mention anything about any obligation to giving credit, neither for the restricted content, nor for the unrestricted. Where did you get that from?

Quote -
- You can never use them to compete against SM in any way, form, or shape.

...

Not at all! You must not use them to compete against Poser (e.g. DAZ could not include them in their Studio) and you cannot use them to create something to compete against the restricted content (whatever this means, for example you should not remap them so that they are compatible (or compete-able) with the jessi model). Apart from that there are many possibilities in which you can compete with SM by using their content, especially since SM is present in many industrial sectors.