Think about it. They caught several other Arabic men with box cutters just like the ones used to hijack the planes. If we can not trust Arabic people on are planes should we bann them from boarding are planes? , Make them take other means of transportation? Is there a point when we have to discriminate to have better airport security? Is there a point where we have to descriminate against a certain profile of people to protect are citizens on are planes?

oh man, I hope not....where will it end if it starts there...this is getting wacked out...makes me wonder when the Judge Dreds will appear....know what I mean....I don't want to live like that.

Yeah I know Discrimination is wrong and politically incorrect but if no Arabic men were allowed on those planes that struck the world trade center, I think a lot of people would still be alive, The world trade center and pentagon intact as well as the planes. So when do you draw the line? When does discrimination become something that may save lives? Those men that Hijacked those planes lived normal lives for years, They were undetected by the FBI AND airport security, How many more of them are here? Maybe not allowing them on the plane would be better then taking a chance to let one get past security. You really need to imagine yourself hijacked and helpless aboard a plane, Knowing your going to Die, And that there is nothing at all you can do, In order to honestly answer this question.

Yes, that IS VERY WRONG! What about the Arabic Men who work for the airlines, as cleaners, as mechanics, possibly pilots? Should we just fire them all because of their country of origin? Lest we forget what was done to the millions of innocent Japanese Americans during WW2! I won't forget it, as I am half japanese, born in the early fifties and faced racism very early in my life. Hatred breeds more hatred, is this what we all what? I don't want to live like that either, and I pray it will not come to this. YES, Mesh, WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE? genny

Gee, maybe we should also stop people like McVeigh from buying fertilizer or renting U=Haul trucks???????? Get a grip here!!! An evil heart knows no skin color or culture. Marque

We do need tighter security but we don't need to start disriminating eve more than we already do. Sad to say that even 4th generation middle eastern people will be able to go almost no where without people looking at them and giving them the stare down. Not to mention those people that look slightly middle eastern. We don't need to blame a race for the actions of a few. We do need to get tighter security definately.

A commentator on the news recently said something to the effect that to be hired and work at the airports, you only have to score 70 on a dumb test. Security has become very slack at airports in the past few years. Boarding a plane in the US is very different from boarding a plane overseas. Expect to see this change, and airport personnel will have to have intense background checks as well. At least whats left of them, many airlines have laid-off large numbers of workers and expect thier number of flights to decrease dramaticly. A couple of smaller airlines have allready folded, not able to comply with new regulations without suffering great finacial loss.

Here is the problem... a) Not all Arabs are terrorists b) All terrorists are Arab (or 99%) Given that information.... does it now justify racial profiling? I was listening to public radio debate that very topic and no one came up with a usable solution. Sure... we can do it... but then can we really call ourselves the home of the free?

When you want to pay a person "minimun" wage to protect your security.......what do you expect? Would you be willing to risk your life and safty for $5.00 an hour? We get what we pay for folks. I work at an airport, and since I was not required to take the "dumb" test, I couldn't tell you my score. I can tell you that I have an AS degree, and went to school for two years to get my Airframe and Powerplant license so I can work on airplanes. I am also one, who is facing possible layoffs, as I work for one of the airlines that was involved in the tragedy. There are many who face the same senario, but discrimination is not the solution. genny

Mans inhumanity to man...history is full of it unfortunately. Where does it all stop...did the 3rd generation American mother of Arabian descent do anything to deserve the the two bullits fired thru her upstairs wall 3 homes down from mine ? If her 4 year old had been sitting up in bed instead of sleeping she would now be dead. Mans inhumanity to man...the madness has got to stop. The assholes who took that shot thru the wall are no better that the ones who hit the towers with the planes, the same hatred is there..only the body count is different.

Ok let me see if I can figure something out here. Japanese do not fly planes into buildings Chinese do not fly planes into buildings Afro Americans do not fly planes into buildings Germans do not fly planes into buildings Spanish do not fly planes into buildings Irish do not fly planes into buildings I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON I THINK ARAB Americans DO FLY PLANES INTO BUILDINGS, they ALSO GET TRAINED TO DO IT HERE IN AMERICA....... Since they do should we bann them or heavly searche them for box cutters, Bombs, Ice picks, Corkscrews, Plastic cerramic guns, viles of antrax?

" a) Not all Arabs are terrorists b) All terrorists are Arab (or 99%) " oh c'mon, you can't be believing this? ever heard of ira? raf? eta? kla? korsikans? i didn't counted it but i bet they killed more people then arabs. so what? and, mesh magick: think before you start writing, please. these are hard times for us all, no need of you spilling gasoline in this fire!

Oh im not getting on a plane with a Arabic pilot. or Arabic flight staff or passaenger I see them im turning around and getting off the plane before taking my seat, thank you.

well: japanese did that as the matter of fact some fifty odd years ago. chinese was killing monks in tibet afro americans? don't know that nation... but americans are setting bombs in the governments buildings germans were killing jews and other non-blond people spanish were killing spanish citizens irish are throwing molotows on school kids ... and arabs fly plains in the buildings SO WHAT!!!! WHAT WILL YOU DO? KILL EVERYBODY??? make this world a better place: THINK!!!!!

I support Bush in anything he decides to do including the use of Nuclear weapons.

right, good thinking...

Mesh, Perhaps you should never get on an airplane again. There are dozens of people who work to get the planes ready for flight, people you would never see or encounter. The people who clean up the cabin, the people who deliver the food, the people who service the lavs, the people who change the tires,the people who put the fuel on, and I can go on and on. As a passenger, you would never know if anyone who boarded or was around that plane prior to you getting on. And you know what, it will all be because that is their job, not because they want to hurt anyone or are part of a terrorist plot. genny

Sixpac, old friend, sorry to say this, but man you must be kiding! Yes go ahead nuke them and let's see if we could enter in a world's nuclear winter effect, which could turns against you and kick you in the butt. You can't blame a whole race for the acts of few, I'm not an American citizen, but for sure as a world's citizen I will reject any kind of use of nuclear weapons. I know that the pain and suffering from these cowards attacks against inocent people puts people into a hate rollercoaster, but that's not a excuse to blame an entire race (1,000'000,000 people), or even think in the use of nuclear weapons. The attack against the WTC involved another countries, there was Japanesse, Genermans, even Arabs inside the WTC complex, this catastrophy touches directly or indirectly almost the world. I agreed that the people behind this must be punish with the full penalty of law, like the Nazis was punished after the WWII for comited crimes against the humanity. I do belive that the WTC's attacks was a crime against the humanity, not only to USA, but because the whole civilized world, and I agreed that this can't be forgotten. The entire world is hoping, and praying, that the sense exists in The Land of the Free, and the Home of the Braves. Virus

How do you define an arab though?? I've spent time working in Saudi and they range from your "standard" arab looking guy to blonde haired and african american looking...and then do you stop irish looking folks or spanish looking? (see i'm upseting half the world already)..nope you just gotta have seriously serious security, infact we all have, also countrys need to check on security of countrys sending flights, its no good having shit hot internal security if some small country somwhere is letting anyone on board with anything.......Steve

Okay, let's kick out everyone in the U.S. of a ethnicity or religion that has engaged in terrorism. Voted off the continent: Muslims: Bin Laden, et. al. Irish: IRA and Ulminster Defense. Germans: the Nazi party. Jews: the extreme right-wingers against Palestine. Catholics: The IRA. Protestants: the KKK, the Ulminster Defense. Blacks: Somalia, Sudan, etc. Japanese: WWII. Chinese: Tibet. Hey, it's not so crowded here any more! Well, gotta go now since I've been served an eviction notice, too.

Hey crescent before you go add the Spanish and the Welsh....seroiusly though if you dig deep enough you'd have no one left.....in ANY country......Steve

It does. Its just 13 year old brats like Mesh that spout their mouths off without thinking. Really mesh, have you EVER been a victim of racism? I have. Being a third native american in America sucks. Let me tell you. In my community, which is predominantly white of southern decent, race is a big issue. We even have a rather large chapter of the KKK, and one of our former mayors is/was an active member. When kids at school learned of my heritege, it was non stop picking and harassing until I beat the living hell out of a kid, calling him nothing more than a dumb ass white boy. Boy did that go over well. I had the cops called on me, spent two nights in jail for yelling racial slurs, and this kid was calling me a Prairie N. This is the racism I've dealt with this kind of racism all my life. If we start profiling against ONE race, we're no better then the Nazi's. We might as well do the goose step and scream Sieg Hiel everytime we salute the president. You're a young punk that doesn't know what the real world is like. The real world operates on balance. Throw that balance out and the world as we know it ends. You want a post-apocilyptic world to live in, create it in Virtual Reality and deck yourself in permanantly and leave the rest of us cool headed adults alone. A resolution will be reached, and those lives lost will be avenged, but WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY OUR WORLD. Simple as that. Sorry for the rant, but on other board that I visit a lot, a little 14 year old went off saying that no military action needs to be taken, we can just talk to reach a resolution. That works in Theory when every party is willing to sit down and be buddy buddy. Right now, THAT side is not willing to do anything but kill for some demented religious dream. Again, I apologize for my outburst. Blade

Of course you all knew this was gonna end up here didn't Ya. ;-)

Exactly what is the purpose of a thread like this besides to stir up more emotions and hate? Aleks is right, we all have enough problems now without having to turn our anger into prejudice towards innocent people. Sixpac, please do us all a favor and go back to your usual rambling about alien models or something. SnowS

yep :o)........Steve

I can't see giving up our American way of life. This includes the belief that all men are created equal. 1 million of the 3 million men fielded in the Civil War paid with their blood for that sin. Yes sin. Thank God we have largely risen above this. Compare america of pre-1964 to today. We've been so buisy kicking God out of our country. Just why should He be listening to us. I'm sick of hearing God Bless America. After we ask for His forgiveness and turn from our evil ways, then we can seek His favor. As it is, we have legal abortion, we praise deviants, we treat pedophilic art as serious art, and glorify art that treats women (made in the image of God) as trash, we've lost our war on drugs. It's time we called these things what they are. Sin. A national disgrace.

Is Mesh really only 13 years old? LOL if he/she is. No wonder he/she can so blatently say the things he/she does. If this is true, I don't think the airlines will let you onto a flight by yourself, so you need not worry about seeing anyone of Arab decent......it would really be your parent's responsibility, and I hope to God, they were not the one's who taught you to think like this. BTW, if we go into war, IT won't be you, or anyone your age that will be affected, so I suppose, it is easy for you to say....Let's do it! Yeah, maybe??????? you think you want to fight for your country......but when the s%^&, hit's the fan, it will be a WHOLE OTHER STORY! I am just glad that I now know, your age, and I know, that anything I say would never make a difference to you.......after-all.......you are a teenager, and YOU KNOW EVERYTHING! (: Just ask my daughter, she is 16 and she knows everything too. genny PS.....I think this is toooooo funny. I wish I had checked out the person's profile, before I responded. It now makes a lot of sense to me. (:

LOL, genny where can you see his age?

In my post... its a guess. and its obvious to me that Jam don't know his business, and if he/she thinks that here in this site promotes pedophile art, he/she outta do the right thing, but down the bible for a minute and remember that art is an expression of the soul. Christianity preaches agains the naked body, and yet how are we born? it certainly isn't with a tux on. Tell your beliefs to the 4900+ people that are missing/presumed dead/or dead and their families Jam. Tell them that we deserved this. You disgust me to the fullest level of disgustedness. And you DARE call yourself an American. GET OFF OUR SOIL, you unpatriotic worm.

Oh and, GOD BLESS AMERICA!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

I wonder how Mary Shoshone is doing, this is a Lebanese Christian girl I grew up with in New England. She was betrothed to a boy in Lebanon when she was a baby. At 14 she was sent to Lebanon and married in 1972. After all this time I wonder how Mary is?

God... this is a scary thread. By reading this I say he has won... this is exactly what he was after. He killed thousands of people but he is destroying a nation. Don't you see this is what he is playing on? He has taught you fear. He knows we'd turn on each other. This makes me ill. They are not all evil... can we say all American's are like Jeffery Dalmar? Or a whole slew of other mass murderers? Don't make this a page in history that we have to look back at someday with shame. Like we do now at so many events in our history. Make this a page that we can point to and say we stood with pride and rose up to the challange and worked together to rid the planet of this type of threat. I will get on a plane with anyone as long as they have gone through security. I agree that things need to be beefed up. Personally I think the cock pit should be sealed in such a way that they can't take it over. But anyway... please. Get a grip. Hatred will eat your soul... destroy everything your country and mine stand for. I will NOT wallow in the filth they come from. We are better than that...arn't we?

Wow. This is silly shit. The fact that people are even talking this way saddens me. Because it means that the terrorists are winning. Their goal, clearly, was to cause chaos and dissention through the use of horrific tragedy. If we single out an ethnic or religious group, not allowing them the rights and freedoms that we all enjoy, then we may as well hand over the country to the next group to threaten it because being an American would no longer mean anything.

Well, okay, then. Le's see some action. MeshMagic, you're in charge of DeArabification Of Our Airways. You stand behind the concourse and explain to them that they have to take a bus.. a cab.... er, walk. Jamball, you're in charge of Deific Deportation Prevention. It's shameful to see the Almighty being boted out. Line up all those deviants and who-knows-what, and make it clear to them that this is all their fault. Everyone else, the drinks are on me. (BTW, "Irish" do not bomb children. "Germans" did not kill Jews. People kill people.)

{If we can not trust Arabic people on are planes should we bann them from boarding are planes? , Make them take other means of transportation?} Pardon my language, but HELL FUCKING NO. OK. Now that that's out of my system... This kind of pointless over-reaction is not only silly and excessive, it is also anti-constitutional. Discrimination based on ethnic origin. A LOT of people who look to be of Arabic descent have been American citizens for generations - and are sometimes MORE patriotic than those of us with blonde hair and blue eyes. If we are to ban ANYONE from airplanes it should be anyone NOT on official, verifiable government business, and if ANYONE here believes THAT to be a good idea, I have some swampland to sell them - hopefully before they let the government repeal the entire Bill of Rights for their own protection. Paranoia of this sort is EXACTLY what the terrorists want - us distrusting everyone, over-reacting to any percieved threat, being so rattled that we cannot retalliate at all, and tear ourselves apart from within. Essentially, that we do their work for them. So, to your question I reply more mildly: "No frelling way." If anyone tries to bar someone else from boarding an airplane because they look Arabic or carry a Q'ran or whatever, with NO other solid reason, I'll go to law school so that I can have the pleasure of suing their pants off myself. Other than that I have no strong feelings on the subject.

This is silly shit,buddah. and people never stops to dumbfound me on how profoundly ignorant or stupid (which ever the case may be) are.It leaves me wondering what do i need to do not to be this way or let some childish idoit cause me to react which means I probally need to work on myself a little more.When in the hell are people gonna give up thats its just one individuals world and realize we all have to somehow come to an understanding that our reality and perceptions differ from one another in some degrees.And ya know what I can only speak for myself as a christian,I'm just forgiven,not perfect ,with a Degree in judging people for their personal choices.Thats between them and g-d what ever they belive him/her to be.

Mesh brings up a question that I think is of value...Had the rights of a few been questioned as they boarded planes that would turn out to be flying bombs would we be talking about this issue right now? I say this based on info we all know now...Somewhere along the way the security system broke down and last Tuesday shows that it did in a way that was so devestating...So now we are left in a complete state of frustration and concern as to what happens next...The entire planet is looking at the US as it waits to see what or how we respond...This wasn't something I could have ever concieved in my daily life...Considering the way this country has operated over the years don't give Mesh too much grief...Blacks here just got their civil rights here a short forty years or so ago...Being gay, myself, I am still waiting for mine to happen...These are extreme times and it seems obvious extreme measures is what it is going to take to make everything ok...This country is great and I am not too concerned about my personal civil rights at the moment but we have been put into the role of "policing" the world...It isn't a role that is easy....After seeing how last weeks events disrupted my personal world for the moment I shudder to think what my lie ahead...I am frightened, scared and hope that my feelings are unfounded...We all deserve civil rights around the world but for the moment I would and could understand if a few of us were didn't get them right now considering the current situation....

That's fine, but include everyone. Subject everyone to increased security restrictions and background examination, not just a chosen group.

{That's fine, but include everyone. Subject everyone to increased security restrictions and background examination, not just a chosen group. } Yep. Treat all equally. Whether that is equally "liberally" or with equal paranoia, but it must not be based on race, religion, income level, or anything else.

Keep your heads, people! This is how it begins! And it HAS begun. You all have an experience of what life here was like before last week. Keep that experience in your head and heart and watch as it changes each passing day. There is an opportunity right now to erase some old dividing lines. Currently I'm seeing some heavy lines being drawn in between us and fear we will enslave ourselves into splintered (not united) states. Don't make the enemy happy.

The Bible doesn't teach against nudity or anything of the sort. What it teaches against is perversion. You can pervert hating what is wrong into racism. You can pervert sex (remember God invented it) into something that is shameful. We aren't entitled to God's blessings just because we're Americans. We are entitled when we act according to His will.

If you don't call what the terrorists did a sin, I don't know what is. Sin never fails to hurt people, yes often the innocent suffer for the wrongs of the few. And to those who want to jam me for waving the Bible around, let me just say I didn't print IN GOD WE TRUST all over our money. All I'm saying is that now we have a bellyache and we go running to God. Why? Seems to me we were running the world fine on Sept 10th. We were doing fine without God, thank you very much. Why do we seek His blessings now? Seems a waste of time until we are willing to ask Him on His terms.

I see alot of spouting, but no real solutions. For cures, security, without a question, needs to be tightened. As far as background, skin color, etc. that is all determined genetically and no on has any control over that. Also, I think attention should be paid more to people that notice when things are not "right". Just to be checked into, not bring out the S.W.A.T. team. Imagine the number of times someone has noticed something peculiar and spoke out, only to be silenced by the majority. For some reason the movies "Gremlins" and " Gremlins 2" have been coming to mind lately. It has been said that the bunch have been living and working for years in the United States. Does anyone think there is more? Maybe. A few year ago during my college years I worked under a Russian immigrant in a print shop. He would consantantly go on and on about how the U.S. sucks compared to the way the U.S.S.R was before communism fell. Blamed the U.S. for the fall also. When he thought he befreinded me, he would start asking questions like "Where U.S. make paper for money" or "Where U.S. make money"? etc. When I could not give anymore information, I was out of a job. When I talked about it to anyone I was called "paranoid" or "xenophobic". He was just a "poor little old immigrant from a backwards country that did'nt know any better". Security needs to be improved, and the American public needs to be quit being so naive.

"Re: Do you think Arabic people have worn out thier welcome aboard planes? " No I don't. I do think a handfull of pople with kinves wouldn't have taken over a plane that had an armed crew, including the flight attendants, and more armed security people on board. I also think a handful of men with knives couldn't have cotrolled a plane filled with 60 - 80 passengers willing to fight, even if it meant getting cut in the process. A knife, or even a gun isn't a magic wand.

The limit was'nt on knives, but the size of the knife. Amazing how the corporate greaseballs have trimmed their budget over the years. Someone could get on board with an x-acto knife if it was the right size. American Airlines have been one of the airlines that have cut things over the years. See the movie "Wall Street" and it might make more sense. In Chicago, they started putting undercover police officers on the Rapid Transit Lines. Helped reduce crime, but there is always the looney who thinks they are smarter than the system.

atthisstage you obviously don't know your history and you certainly don't collect coins. I'm looking at a 1943 steel penny guess what it says IN GOD WE TRUST Morgan Dollars I had both a 1878 and 1879 guess what? It says in the Declaration of Independence that we are endued with certain inalienable rights BY OUR CREATOR among them are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Tell me something Jam, ol buddy. Exactly what is a pagan? Someone that doesn't believe exactly the way you do? or doesnt belong to your oh-so-mighty religion? Clarify this for me. I spent 20 years of my life as a Southern Baptist(for all the non-US peeps, a baptist is a right-wing fundementalist), and they were the worst years of my life, why? Because I thought that all the bad things in my life happened to me because I wasn't doing what God wanted me to do(more or less what the moron pastors where preaching), and then long about my 21st birthday, I was talking with a friend of mine who is a Wiccan, he and I were yaking about a lot of different things and that's when he told me, God only wants you to be happy and live by the commandments he set forth... and only a few of the commandments are applicable today, no stealing, no killing, don't sleep with family members, no other gods before Me, that stuff. When I realised this, I told my pastor to bite me and walked out of a sunday service. I have yet to be back to church save for the occaision times I got to one of the local Catholic churches. So answer me that Jam. What is a pagan? I take from the bible only what suits modern times and the modern world, and I borrow from other religions as well. Chief among them is the Native American beliefs. Those people are closer to God then any christian could ever BEG to be, why? because they live in harmony with their enviroment, and for the most part each other. They don't seek conquest over the world like it preaches in the bible "And man shall have dominion over every plant and animal on the face of the earth" What a crock of shit. The world has followed that edict, and look at our planet now... dying slowly because of our ignorance. Anyways, answer me the question with out any biased religious bs and I'll be happy.

"And our Creator is? The God of the Jews? The God of the Christians? The God of the Muslims? The God of the ancient Babylonians? We have lots of Gods to choose from, Jam; which one would you like? Or is that phrase supposed to be an indicator of "my god's better than your god"?" Good one! And true. I was raised in a family consisting of rather lapsed Catholics, Christians, and Jews. My great-grandfather was a Shaman and a Seer, and I spent time working in a Jesuit seminary. If I had to stick myself in a category I suppose I'd be a Neopagan, as they're called now. (Ah ah! I saw that, Jamball- put that match down! 8) ) Though I usually subscribe to the Way of Weatherwax (a good friend of Ms. Cosmopolite) It never helps anyone to assume that one good idea or good method is the only one, that one way of seeing things is the only one- the "of course" which is the biggest trap of the mind. "Of course" justifies any amount of things.

This thread is now going to go absolutely nowhere but down.

Oh...sorry atthisstage....I had no idea you just became a moderator. Silly me, won't happen again.