Quote - The Poser version will be supported by those Poser clothing vendors who are making clothes still for V4.

Um... nope.

I'm strictly Poser and I've given up on V4 for at least a year I think. I've been making stuff for Antonia and Michelle up until now.

I don't understand those that continuously state "If the vendors don't", then go on and give imagined reason the vendors won't.  The figure has not even been released, it has an impressive list of names behind it already, and it has been stated there will be a Dawin for Poser, and a separate one of Dawn for DS.  So, what's the beef?  Like a lot of people, DS will not run in my computer, without which the gene thing is crippled.  Big deal, vendors are already either deciding on one or the other, or have for a long time already, or some are doing both.  What's the beef?  We have a new figure coming that incorporates newer tech then V4, and will no doubt be a better bending and easier to manipulate figure than V4.  Again, what's the beef? 

The prophesy of lack of support is getting old, and maybe it's made with the wish of being self fulfilling, I don't know or care what a few may want one way or another.  Poser users are going to get nothing from DAZ in the future, we have a chance, and I hope everyone supports it, to have a modern figure for Poser.  Let's knock off the prophecy that can't be proven and doen't need fulfilling.

Doric.

Quote - So, it comes to the fact that if she is not Genesis, then she won't be wearing Genesis clothing.

Hi Richard, just wanted to clarify this statement. In the current version of DS if someone makes a genesis clone for autofit(in an oversimplified version that means basically smooshing Dawns mesh to the same size as genesis) she can wear all of the genesis clothing via autofit. Zigraphix showed how to create clones over in another forum for the DAZ Horse 2 using the lama morph for it.

So the technology is there and able to do it. My concern is that it may cause legal problems if it is done as a for sale product I'm not sure if it would infringe copyright or not. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could comment.

cheers

Pen

Quote - > Quote - From what I've seen in this thread, it appears that if the vendor only supports one platform, either they can team up with a vendor who supports the other platform, or else it's up to the users of the unsupported platform to get it to work using whatever tools are available within their platform of choice.

Hasn't that been the same thing for years now?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Not prior to Genesis-- which is what many Poser users have been complaining about. The vast majority of content used to work just fine in both platforms, needing no more than (perhaps) a tweak of the surface material settings.

Lies - I've NEVER supported DS, and I've always made it clear in my products that my stuff might work in DS but I won't be bothered if it doesn't. I know other vendors who did the same.

I've never created anything for DS because I never took to it and don't use it. But for the purposes of cross-compatibility, I'm willing to learn and I don't think I'll be alone.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I think the opposite: she'll end up more of a Poser figure.  Just because Poser users are looking for something that works in Poser, while DS users already have something.

Don't be so sure about us DS users. Even us long timers. A good chunk of us aren't to  happy with DAZ's roll out with GF2 and don't plan on courting her at all. I embrace the "Dawn of a new day" and would rather put my $$$ on her. :)

 

I agree that this will be more of a poser figure, DAZ users are confused right now, but then DAZ did that, there will be as yourself some who will use her in DAZ but Poser users have been waiting on this figure a long time, as the last one was V4 which is why V4 still has so much suport. Some will say there are other figures but of them only Michell has any suport.

Confused????? No PISSED !!  :)

Quote - What I'd like to see is very simple:

A well-made figure that works equally well in Poser and DS, without the need for an import script.  No favoring one format above the other.

Okay, let's talk tech.

You know what the last time Poser and DS could support the same tech flawlessly was?

POSER FOUR.

Seriously. Truly. If not for materials, then for small tidbits in the way the files were written (believe me, I was baffled at the things I had to change for my Antonia Morphs to not make a mess in DS that would have no effect in Poser whatsoever, including the order in which morphs appeared in the file). And now it's just all too obvious because of the new possibilities in rigging.

I see absolutely no point in making new figures or content if we're going to be tied to the same old VERY old tech. Why would we have weight-mapping, real reflections, sub-surface scattering, complex shaders, animatable joints etc... if we can't use them in the content made after such features reached our apps? To say "oh, Poser can do that" but never use it?

That's a waste. If we want to use the old tech, there's no reason for dropping V4 - or Posette even.

Quote - > Quote - The Poser version will be supported by those Poser clothing vendors who are making clothes still for V4.

Um... nope.

I'm strictly Poser and I've given up on V4 for at least a year I think. I've been making stuff for Antonia and Michelle up until now.

I didn't say all Poser clothing vendors are making clothes for V4. I think we crossed wires somewhere.

Hey Hivewire, we need some new pictures to drool over. The natives are getting restless. :biggrin:

Quote - > Quote - YES! They've said many times there will be a Genesis version and a Poser version.

Laurie

 

So Dawn will just be another Genesis morph in DS? Wonder how i got the idea that wasn't the case? I need to go back and re-read this thread.

Nono, Dawn will have nothing to do with Genesis. Dawn will just work in DS.

Can I put in a request for an info only picture thread? I havent the time to pick through all this for the info on Dawn

On DevRigs - the donor needs to be stripped of magnets, existing morphs, magnets, morph channels and weightmaps. Other 'junk' items include materials, dynamic hair groups, IK ...   Basically all you want is the actor list and the bone settings and as little of anything else.  I usually use PoserFileEditor to clean out cr2's

On poser's morph transfer - be careful. It can be a little er ... messy. I've crashed it several times and utterly confused it just as often.  Some of v4's admittedly bizarre internal morph setup confuses it a great deal.

Also making JCMs can be done wholly in poser with the morph painting tool and the dependecy editor.  They are not a kludge. THey are an important and valued morph type.

The only time they become annoying is when the maker deicdes to hide them and you get unpleasent stealth morphs popping up when you didnt expect them. You want a shock, go turn hidden off for all of v4's morphs. there are loads of jcm's in there.

On my Alyson2 devkit I included a stripped donor cr2, base bodysuit meshes, a base dress mesh, and 4 differrent shoe bases for various heel heights with matching high heel foot poses. That seems to be a good all round starter kit.

I have a bunch of similar devkits for a huge list of figures in development .... as soon as I get this book done. (so close)

Lyrra

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - YES! They've said many times there will be a Genesis version and a Poser version.

Laurie

 

So Dawn will just be another Genesis morph in DS? Wonder how i got the idea that wasn't the case? I need to go back and re-read this thread.

Nono, Dawn will have nothing to do with Genesis. Dawn will just work in DS.

Well, that's what I meant...just meant it will use the tech that's in DS...poor choice of words ;).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - The Poser version will be supported by those Poser clothing vendors who are making clothes still for V4.

Um... nope.

I'm strictly Poser and I've given up on V4 for at least a year I think. I've been making stuff for Antonia and Michelle up until now.

I didn't say all Poser clothing vendors are making clothes for V4. I think we crossed wires somewhere.

Oh. xD

It sounded as if you did, but then again, it might have been because english is not my birth language. ^^"

Quote - Hey Hivewire, we need some new pictures to drool over. The natives are getting restless. :biggrin:

lol, I was thinking the same thing!

@**Afrodite-Ohki - **If I had left out the word "those" right before "Poser clothing vendors", then your interpretation would have been correct. You write English well; never thought you weren't a native speaker!

Quote - @**Afrodite-Ohki - **If I had left out the word "those" right before "Poser clothing vendors", then your interpretation would have been correct. You write English well; never thought you weren't a native speaker!

Why thank you! :3

My home language is brazilian portuguese. I did take english classes as a kid, but I must confess they'd have done no good if it weren't for video games and internet LMAO

Dawn comes without an associated history, and this is a crucial factor that other figures have not had.  So far, it has allowed hope to thrive without the stigma of past negative experiences that hurt sales and appeal.  The team is veteran, qualified, and inspires confidence.  There is a lot of dissatisfaction of those who have been in the community for many years, seeking a positive new path.  If this will ultimately make a difference in the acceptance of Dawn as a new standard by avoiding unpopular decisions by existing content houses, time will tell.

As far as compatibility, there will be those available to help see to bi-platform production happen where it is desired.  But there will always be those who just don't want to take on the learning curve of another studio for the sake of users of that software, or upgrade their hardware to be able to use it.  People make what they want to make with what they know and have. Users need to get used to the fact that if they want something that badly, they can also tackle the learning curve.

For example, I want a modo version of Dawn, and I'm willing to rig it myself in modo in order to get it.  I can tell that no one is interested in doing it for me.  Moping and crying won't get it for me.  I spent a lot of hard hours learning to do it correctly, with weight mapping, and vertex mapping for morphs.  So if you want it that badly, learn to make it yourself.  There comes a point where voting with your pocket book doesn't cut it, and you just have to fish, cut bait, or go hungry.

Expecting others to please your every whim is a fool's game.  It's just not going to happen.  Be happy with what you've got available to you and make the most of it.  And appreciate what others do for you.  Your life will be happier once you do.

Quote - > Quote - Antonia is great & has her place, but in the world of artwork, many people want a classic pretty face.

That matters, but IMHO is not remotely the reason people are so excited about Dawn. 

The reason this is exciting is that this is an actual company, presumably with venture capital behind it, run by people who have created successful companies in this field before.  The artistic and technical aspects are great, but the difference between Dawn and Antonia, GND, etc., is that Hivewire presumably has the business end worked out.  There are a bunch of people whose full-time jobs are to promote and support Dawn, and they have a plan to make her so successful they'll make enough money to pay those salaries.  The last time we had something like this was DAZ, with Mike and Vicky.

I think this is very well put. The difference is having a professional team with capitol to back it. That way there will be a steady stream of content from the creators. It may take some time, but if she does gain in popularity, more and more content creators will develop for her. Whether you use Poser or Daz, it doesn't matter, the market and content creators will adjust to sales, and I think it is exciting to have something new to work with.

Fringewood - can I give you a hug?

Quote - Fringewood - can I give you a hug?

LOL

Laurie

Please forgive me if I've using wrong color lol.I know blue was suggesed for 1 request & I think orange for another.I've been wondering if Dawn can have maybe morphs for shaping teeth? I love my vampires & I'm gonna need the fangs for those:)

Thanks if this can be done:)

Quote - Hey Hivewire, we need some new pictures to drool over. The natives are getting restless. :biggrin:

Or maybe that surprise announcement :)

Quote - Please forgive me if I've using wrong color lol.I know blue was suggesed for 1 request & I think orange for another.I've been wondering if Dawn can have maybe morphs for shaping teeth? I love my vampires & I'm gonna need the fangs for those:)

Thanks if this can be done:)

Another thing that I'll happily make if they don't. xD

Something tells me there will be creature morphs...lol. Chris has done a lot of those in the past, they've been popular and I don't see that changing now ;). I loved the old creature morphs - they even had eye/pupil morphs so ya could do loads of creepy eyeballs. :P

Laurie

Quote - Hey Hivewire, we need some new pictures to drool over. The natives are getting restless. :biggrin:

You see now if they did that then Hivewire would have to issue "Dawn bibs™ " to catch all the drool. There is also the risk of a drool tsunami™ which no one has an emergency plan for.

.<

We're very sincere about wanting to provide a great figure for BOTH Poser and DAZ Studio users. We know that there are pros and cons to trying to serve both groups. Some users are die-hard Poser only, some are die-hard Studio only, and many are somewhere in between. We know that there are some big hurdles we'll have to overcome in order for this to really work out, but we are committed to working WITH the community as best we can to make it a reality. We cannot do this alone, we're doing our best to help jump-start this with Dawn and an open approach. Again, time will tell how this plays out.

a BIG THANKS to everyone for the excitement and encouragement around Dawn. It means a LOT!

But enough from me, here's what you really asked for: a couple of quick and fun renders from Poser using default settings and the included SSS shader and IBL light set, provided by one of our community testers (thank you! you know who you are ;) ):

and one more:

Quote - Dawn comes without an associated history, and this is a crucial factor that other figures have not had.  So far, it has allowed hope to thrive without the stigma of past negative experiences that hurt sales and appeal.  The team is veteran, qualified, and inspires confidence.  There is a lot of dissatisfaction of those who have been in the community for many years, seeking a positive new path.  If this will ultimately make a difference in the acceptance of Dawn as a new standard by avoiding unpopular decisions by existing content houses, time will tell.

This is one thing I don't understand. Well, two things I don't understand. The first is why people have that negative stigma about various companies in the first place? Shop at rendo, runtime, or daz, buy cool content and download it and render awesome scenes. Why get mad? The second thing I don't understand is why anyone who is irrational enough to be angry at one particular company coughdazcough would be any less angry at this. This is the same leadership team that steered the ship over there when the a lot of bad feelings were created... I guess a rose of any other name would actually smell sweeter.

Quote - As far as compatibility, there will be those available to help see to bi-platform production happen where it is desired.  But there will always be those who just don't want to take on the learning curve of another studio for the sake of users of that software, or upgrade their hardware to be able to use it.  People make what they want to make with what they know and have. Users need to get used to the fact that if they want something that badly, they can also tackle the learning curve.

If they don't provide the tools to easily convert from Poser to DS and back again, then all you'll see is another rift. Cool outfit? Oh, only Poser compatible... Long live Poser Dawn and down with DS Dawn! If they don't have the team or tools to do this to help their CAs, it is going to seriously hurt adoption.

Quote - For example, I want a modo version of Dawn, and I'm willing to rig it myself in modo in order to get it.  I can tell that no one is interested in doing it for me.  Moping and crying won't get it for me.  I spent a lot of hard hours learning to do it correctly, with weight mapping, and vertex mapping for morphs.  So if you want it that badly, learn to make it yourself.  There comes a point where voting with your pocket book doesn't cut it, and you just have to fish, cut bait, or go hungry. Expecting others to please your every whim is a fool's game.  It's just not going to happen.  Be happy with what you've got available to you and make the most of it.  And appreciate what others do for you.  Your life will be happier once you do.

That is akin to telling people to learn to model and rig and texture and everything all on their own. Its probably true, more should learn it and become adept at it... but for those that are technically and / or artistically incompetent like myself who lacks the ability to do it, that is kind of the point of buying prefab stuff. Telling people "learn it yourself" doesn't change the reality of not providing equal support to Poser and DS from not just hivewire but the vendors will lower its chances of really being widely adopted and finally unseating a 7 year old figure that is past menopause. 

Quote - We're very sincere about wanting to provide a great figure for BOTH Poser and DAZ Studio users. We know that there are pros and cons to trying to serve both groups. Some users are die-hard Poser only, some are die-hard Studio only, and many are somewhere in between. We know that there are some big hurdles we'll have to overcome in order for this to really work out, but we are committed to working WITH the community as best we can to make it a reality. We cannot do this alone, we're doing our best to help jump-start this with Dawn and an open approach. Again, time will tell how this plays out.

a BIG THANKS to everyone for the excitement and encouragement around Dawn. It means a LOT!

But enough from me, here's what you really asked for: a couple of quick and fun renders from Poser using default settings and the included SSS shader and IBL light set, provided by one of our community testers (thank you! you know who you are ;) ):

and one more:

 

Her face is so very very pretty.

Mind if I give you a small Poser trick with the SSS?
See the greenish tint around her lips and eyes? That's Poser getting confused with the thickness and colors for the subsurface. In the Scatter/Subsurface Skin nodes, notice the last line, "Scatter Group". Use a number just for the skin, different numbers for things like gums, teeth, eyes etc... :)

Quote - Her face is so very very pretty.

Thanks!

Quote - Mind if I give you a small Poser trick with the SSS?

Yes, our testers pointed that out to us and we're making the adjustments, thanks!

Quote - > Quote - Not prior to Genesis-- which is what many Poser users have been complaining about. The vast majority of content used to work just fine in both platforms, needing no more than (perhaps) a tweak of the surface material settings.

Lies - I've NEVER supported DS, and I've always made it clear in my products that my stuff might work in DS but I won't be bothered if it doesn't. I know other vendors who did the same.

Okay... now I'm being called a liar. :(

I will make one more attempt to explain what I was trying to say, because I wasn't trying to upset or criticize anyone.

I think Dawn is a pretty figure. I understand Poser users, in particular, have been really hoping for a new figure that would take advantage of new technology. I am happy for them-- this is a great dev team and I'm sure they will produce an outstanding figure and add-ons.

I think usage in DS is likely to be lower than usage in Poser, because Genesis has been on the market for 2 years and many DS users have started investing in that platform, but I have no way of knowing until next year, same as anyone else-- it will take that long to be able to say whether Dawn has supplanted Genesis or coexists or whatever. DAZ may be in the process of ensuring Dawn's "victory" with G2F, for all I know.

I wish there was a way to create a new figure using new technology that would work in both software platforms, plus others... one based on some industry standards that wouldn't require one company to license from its rival or whatever. I assume if that could be done, at present, HiveWire3D would be doing it, so I guess it's a lost cause. The last popular widely compatable figure, then, would be the DAZ 4th gen figures (V4, M4, etc.), for which content usually worked in both platforms even if its creator didn't intend it to work and wouldn't support it.

Oh well. I used to have to convert a lot of content to A3 and H3. I guess this won't be much different.

Please, carry on with the revels. I really am happy for the folks Dawn is made for. I'm just realizing that she isn't being made for me.

I'm damned excited about Dawn and won't let thread negativity spoil my hopes for a long and successful run for this figure and company.  

She's got to be the prettiest figure I've seen out of the box. Thanks for teasing us some more Steve!

Beautiful image! Thanks Steve...

Very pretty! :)

Laurie

Quote - Separate suggestion:

We hear a lot about how forum posts aren't representative of market interest, and we can easily see that some voices are a lot louder than others (volume of posts, strength of opinion, name recognition, etc.) I'd really like to see a brokerage/figure maker provide two website features to help mitigate this: public polls and a Q&A feature.

Public polls allow the creators to ask a question, people can respond (one vote per person), and everyone can see the result. Let's say (to use an earlier fictional example) that the creators wonder if Dawn's legs are too long. They can put up a poll, and everyone will be able to see the results, and then the HiveWire3D team can respond and say what they plan to do based on the poll results. Very transparent.

The Q&A feature is a more efficient way of addressing questions than a forum. When someone posts a new question, the software attempts to find a matching, similar question. If the poster agrees that they are asking the same question, the two questions are linked and one response is used for both. Otherwise, a new question is generated and queued up for the site team to answer. The next person coming to the site can see a list of questions that have already been asked and answered, or are waiting on answers. I think this would generate fewer rumors, be easier for customers to use, and would help customers feel that their questions have been addressed.

Even if the answer to a customer request is "no," I really do believe that if the question is answered honestly and some reasoning given, people will accept the response and know they've been heard. My experience in forum management and global project management has led me to believe that this would reduce a lot of arguing and ill-will.

Just about every content creator has experienced first hand that forum feedback is only a segment of their customer base, and has learned to take it with a grain of salt, and compare (and incorporate) that to their actual sales data and put it in it;s proper realistic perspective when making decisions, so I wouldn't be too worried about frequency and volubility of individual opinions. 

As for arguing... it goes with the terittory. 

Quote -I really see a problem with understanding here! 

 

From what I have read, since the beginning of this thread, is that Dawn will be in basically TWO NEW, INDEPENDANT figures, one rigged to work in Poser and using the poser rigging technology, AND one rigged to work in DS, using DS rigging technology. The mesh (figure shape) will be the shared with both figures.

 

If this is the case (and I'm pretty sure it is) then clothing made for the Poser Dawn will not be automatically usable on the DS Dawn, even though the mesh will fit the figure in both programs. Therefore vendors will have to do twice the rigging but not twice the modelling.

 

To me this means that there will be Poser only content creators (I fall into this catagory as I know virtually nothing about DS rigging), there will be DS only content creators, who do not know Posers rigging, and there will be content creators with the knowledge of both programs and will create versions usable in both program. I suspect even those that know both programs will offer a DS version and a seperate Poser version, but that's only speculation based on the fact that if that if they have to do the rigging twice it would be foolish not to, but who knows.

 

Rigging part alone, especially in the newer version of programs, that this figure is artgeting is not too bad. Weightmapping eliminates the need for a sizeable number of JCM's, and the initial weightmapping gets transfered from the main figure. Content creator has to edit and fine tune it to the clothing. this process is a bit quicker and more user friendly then old rigging system was.

For me huge part of the 'expense' of making a product would be hand made JCM's and morphs. Since morphs can be shared (figure has the same topology) I don't expect a huge  problem supporting both. (Hopefully I donlt have to change my tune on this much when I start production), but having rigget test pieces (not for Dawn) in both Poser and DS weightmapping, I am optimistic that this is a supportable situation.

Quote - It would nice to hear clothing creators chime in with which software they plan to support.

Both.
For most of us content makers, since the overall market is fairly mall it is a necessity to interest both groups of users, DS and Poser, if we want to survive and continue to do this as a full time work. 

Caveat to this is that a figure has to work reasonably well in both programs. Solutions such as making genesis work in poser to a degree were not supportable without losing the farm. 

I'll be texturing clothing for Dawn that supports both platforms. 

Quote - @vilters - I agree that it seems similar to the Antonia hype. However there is one major difference: Out of the box, Dawn is traditionally speaking much prettier and has a more realistic face (especially lips) than Antonia. Point being: Dawn could actually live up to the hype.

Antonia is great & has her place, but in the world of artwork, many people want a classic pretty face. Look at what sells here at Renderosity & elsewhere: Young, stereotypically pretty faces on thin bodies with ample boobs. Fine by me, but it does leave Antonia & other figures facing a smaller market of content buyers. Dawn is a bit more traditional (read: model pretty) so I think she may do a better than her indy predecessors.

Thats part of the 'one up' she has over antonia.  The big differentiator is that she has a team behind her that is financially invested in her success.  Thats huge.  Thats the biggest reason this project has a real shot.  

Until I'm proven wrong I'll still say antoniaWM is the best bending poser figure out there. But as a team it was not our objective to make her a financial success.  We were working to give the community something to run with.  Our goal was to get her out and move on with other things.  Looking back its easy to see why she didnt get supported.  Where is the security for the content creators?  This figure is going to be anchoring a storefront.  As a vendor you know that the figure team is in the trenches with you.  To me that may be the bridge that was missing for previous 3rd party figures.  Its a compelling reason to take a bit of a leap of faith in supporting Dawn with some commercially viable content.

she is the prettiest poser figure ever to come out of the box and look like that period.

that and the way she bends and moves will get her the suport she needs.

Stunning renders! I can't wait to get my hands on her. This is a wonderful project!

butohboy, first, I'm a ten year Poser user, maybe plus or minus a little.  In that ten years, I've seen a lot, and in that time, the daz figures were considered the best of the lot.  For most of that time, had Poser gone under and not resurfaced, it wouldn't have been long and daz would have joined the "also ran" group. 

It was daz that split, two years ago,maybe plus or minus a little, and since then, not one new figure that is natively poser compatible came from daz.

Poser Dawn, Daz Dawn, same figure.  The same cannot be said for V4 and any version of Genesis, which I have just refrained from using the name I prefer for it.  Any version, anything made for genesis is totally unusable in my computer, without putting in that great time waster called dson.  Even then, to me it looks like a low res figure, almost as good as Posey.

The situation now exists, anything made for genesis, I can't use, and I don't cry about it.  It doesn't make any sense to me to sit there with an unfamiliar, quirky, undocumented software to get what I can with one double click to load the figure I want.  It would be nice if some of them had a few more morph dials, but I have enough I can work, and I do NOT have any daz figures left in my computers, I've deleted them all.  (42 of them if you want a number)

Modeling, it seems rather to me and you'll see a link to my crappy  freebies at the bottom, but what I want for structures, forget daz, and even stonemason doesn't make anything I want.  I ain't no city jerk, I'm one of them that was raised three miles from the nearest town, population about 1300.  City scapes are something I don't need, but what I do need, didn't exist.  Getting the picture?  You have vendors that make nothing but DS, and you have vendors that make nothing but Poser.  It exists.  It has existed.  It didn't bother you when the genesis stuff couldn't be  used in Poser, so turn off your tears now.  There will be things for both, if you can't use one in one or the other program, use something else, there isn't any shortage of viable alternatives for either one. 

Knock off the whining and daz versus Poser, there will be a new figure for both, one for you, one for me.  Not one for you and one for me if I could get that software to run in my computer, and then jump through three or four hours worth of hoops to get it.  I'm too old to jump through hoops, if it's going to be a problem, then it's not worth it, I just won't mess with it. 

You've already got it in your head that it's going to be one way or the other, and it isn't.  daz knew there was a hole, they didn't move to fill it, someone else did.  And if memory serves me correct, they weren't the ones to start the split, I seem to remember there was already dissent at daz before genesis came out.  But I didn't watch that too close, not interesting.  They're putting up a new figure, that from what I've seen here is just fantastic, you'll be able to use it, so what's your beef?

Doric the pissed off.

She looks wonderful.  I can hardly wait to get my grubby paws on her.

Quote - She looks wonderful.  I can hardly wait to get my grubby paws on her.

YOu keep your paws off her, she's MINE!

Doric.

Hey, I'm like you and the prospect of a figure that works for both is exciting. I'm just saying that if vendors go at it with a "support whatever" and hivewire doesn't have a group dedicated to making sure it works on both platforms, which if they are financially backed then that should be a priority, then it will go the same was as so many V4 killers. Without community adoption, which leads to vendor support, which leads to more community adoption, and keep feeding back on itself, it won't reach critical mass and just be another "man, that was a nice dream... back to V4." And community adoption either needs very deep pockets behind it to support a company for the year or more it takes to take root, or broad enough appeal that everyone will jump. And that latter I see having a hard time coming if it is essentially two different figures that DS built content will only really be useable if you are rich enough to own Poser 2014 for the changing room or the vast majority of content is put out with support for the most commonly used versions of both Poser and DS. Not a hater, just saying that being adopted by only the Poser community isn't going to make it the cure-all everyone is hoping for... and in order to be adopted by the DS community, content has to not be split which, from the sounds of it, vendors are already planning on it being that way. But hey, what do I know? I'm a bear. I suck heads off fish.

Quote - > Quote - What I'd like to see is very simple:

A well-made figure that works equally well in Poser and DS, without the need for an import script.  No favoring one format above the other.

Okay, let's talk tech.

You know what the last time Poser and DS could support the same tech flawlessly was?

POSER FOUR.

Seriously. Truly. If not for materials, then for small tidbits in the way the files were written (believe me, I was baffled at the things I had to change for my Antonia Morphs to not make a mess in DS that would have no effect in Poser whatsoever, including the order in which morphs appeared in the file). And now it's just all too obvious because of the new possibilities in rigging.

I see absolutely no point in making new figures or content if we're going to be tied to the same old VERY old tech. Why would we have weight-mapping, real reflections, sub-surface scattering, complex shaders, animatable joints etc... if we can't use them in the content made after such features reached our apps? To say "oh, Poser can do that" but never use it?

That's a waste. If we want to use the old tech, there's no reason for dropping V4 - or Posette even.

No, now.  :-)  I didn't say "works the same way." 

I said, "Works equally well."

If she loads up into Poser via a satellite on Mars, I do not care.  All I care about is...just let her work well.  No bewildering errors or sudden crashes, a good set of morphs, and a nice rig that we can use as a starter for our own clothing -- and I'll be ecstatic.

If Dawn becomes popular enough -- and I don't see how she can NOT be -- if she works well -- since there's a nice niche already in the market for her to slide into -- maybe her creators will consider a version that can be run in lower versions of Poser, for the folks who haven't upgraded yet.  But selfishly, since I run Poser 2014, that's not an issue for me, personally.

Quote - We're very sincere about wanting to provide a great figure for BOTH Poser and DAZ Studio users. We know that there are pros and cons to trying to serve both groups. Some users are die-hard Poser only, some are die-hard Studio only, and many are somewhere in between. We know that there are some big hurdles we'll have to overcome in order for this to really work out, but we are committed to working WITH the community as best we can to make it a reality. We cannot do this alone, we're doing our best to help jump-start this with Dawn and an open approach. Again, time will tell how this plays out.

a BIG THANKS to everyone for the excitement and encouragement around Dawn. It means a LOT!

But enough from me, here's what you really asked for: a couple of quick and fun renders from Poser using default settings and the included SSS shader and IBL light set, provided by one of our community testers (thank you! you know who you are ;) ):

and one more:

 

Like they said, out of the box beautiful.  :-)

Lovely!!!  Thank you for showing us how she renders in Poser.

Quote - This is one thing I don't understand. Well, two things I don't understand. The first is why people have that negative stigma about various companies in the first place? Shop at rendo, runtime, or daz, buy cool content and download it and render awesome scenes. Why get mad? The second thing I don't understand is why anyone who is irrational enough to be angry at one particular company coughdazcough would be any less angry at this. This is the same leadership team that steered the ship over there when the a lot of bad feelings were created... I guess a rose of any other name would actually smell sweeter.

Your last sentence (same team, etc.) sums up something that was brought to my attention a few days ago.  And all I can say about that, after a few days of mulling 'er over is -- we take a chance or we don't.

If we trust the team statement that they are 100% sincere in wanting to heal the rift in the community, what do we lose?  They're giving Dawn away, free, for a limited time.  There's no new software to buy, in order to use her.

If we don't trust them, we'll be exactly where we are now.  Wishing for a cool new figure that works in Poser and DS -- or DS and Poser, which ever you want to put first.

Life is all about taking risks.  And what do we have to lose, by downloading Dawn, giving her a whirl, and then going from there?

As someone said, until she's released, those of us who haven't tested her are just speculating anyhow.  :-)  I'm hoping for the best.

Sorry for the back to back posts...won't happen again.

Quote -  

Sorry for the back to back posts...won't happen again.

 

 

 

wait... back to back posts is bad? 

um so I too am retroactively sorry for having done this on many many occasions!

Perhaps, just maybe, they saw what happened between Poser and DS users, decided they didn't like it and had a change of heart....lol. I mean, they're part of this community too - maybe they hated the animosity as much as the rest of us.

Maybe they also realize that supporting both gives them the potential for at least double the money (tho frankly, I think it would be more than double ;)). Money is the biggest motivater. LOL

Stranger things have happened ;). I don't care which it is either (or neither). If they're willing to try, I'm willing to give em a shot...might just work out ;).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - So, it comes to the fact that if she is not Genesis, then she won't be wearing Genesis clothing.

 

Hi Richard, just wanted to clarify this statement. In the current version of DS if someone makes a genesis clone for autofit(in an oversimplified version that means basically smooshing Dawns mesh to the same size as genesis) she can wear all of the genesis clothing via autofit. Zigraphix showed how to create clones over in another forum for the DAZ Horse 2 using the lama morph for it.

So the technology is there and able to do it. My concern is that it may cause legal problems if it is done as a for sale product I'm not sure if it would infringe copyright or not. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could comment.

cheers

 

Pen

Not sure if there are any legal ramifications on a shape.  It's the mesh that DAZ would have issues with and will take action on.  At one point I wanted to build a clone of Apollo Maximus so he could wear Genesis clothing and vice versa but .... I got busy with other projects.  No one came in and slapped my hand and told me "You can't do that for this or that reason....."