Quote - > Quote - Interesting discussion what shall we take next? How many angels can dance on a pin head?

 

 

four and a half.  

And by god I -WILL- shank the person who says differently!!

Please PLEASE don't cut an angel in half. ;)

Quote - Afrodite-O

Wow. You are a lovely lady! I think we should have an AfroO morph and texture set for Dawn-but then people would complain that it was not "realistic!" :-)

Eric

You guys gotta stop making me blush! xDDD

Seriously, I think I'm about to get accused of attention wh*ring instead of doing what I intended to do, prove that thin waists are perfectly naturally possible.

But yes, people would complain of non-realism. I had a similar case when I was making a skin texture for V4 and the natural non-makeup lips were very pink-tinted, and someone pointed that it looked like it had lipstick on. I mentioned my real lips were like that and a lot of people think I have lipstick on all the time, and the person replied that in that case I couldn't hope for the skin texture to look REALISTIC if it was so uncommon! I think people need to understand that real doesn't mean necessarily everyday-looking.

In a world of vastly different body shapes...who can really comment on what is "realism".....

I mean really!!!

I think Poserworld is already planning support.  I saw somewhere - can't remember if it was here or RDNA - they were asking for a Dawn development rig.

And yes, today's a U.S. holiday.  Because it's fallen on a Thursday, a lot of people will be taking Friday off as well, for a long weekend.  Don't freak if you don't hear from Hivewire today, or even a few days.

Bet he has a horrible time buying clothing to fit off the rack.

Quote - In a world of vastly different body shapes...who can really comment on what is "realism".....

 

I mean really!!!

 

Quote - In a world of vastly different body shapes...who can really comment on what is "realism".....

 

I mean really!!!

 

AAAAARGH!! Some people just shouldn't go shirtless....

Anyway, doubt Hivewire will be about today...might have to wait until tomorrow.

Laurie

Will we have a figure before we reach a 100 pages? This must be a first.

And onother one for the history books:

Poser and DS users pulling the same string. . . . . . . .in the same direction. LOL.

Who would have . . . . . .
Or am I dreaming and will all this be over when I wake up?????

Quote - Bet he has a horrible time buying clothing to fit off the rack.

I would hope that accounts for his present state of, um, disarray. But these days? Who knows... :)

Quote - > Quote - Bet he has a horrible time buying clothing to fit off the rack.

I would hope that accounts for his present state of, um, disarray. But these days? Who knows... :)

I think he could clean up well with the right clothes:

http://gruuvy.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/despicable-me-gru.jpg

Rawn

Quote - In a world of vastly different body shapes...who can really comment on what is "realism".....

 

I mean really!!!

 

O look, it's an opposite me! O_O

Afrodite-Ohki, you will fit perfectly with this man!

HAHAHAHAHA GRU! Why didn't I think of him first xDDDD

A "fitting room" nightmare. LOL

... Sorry. YES, I had to. LMAO

(btw, yup my hair is short nowadays)

Hey everyone if I am accepted as a content creator I plan on offering pose sets for Dawn and would be interested in hearing as the end user what would you all like to see? I am sure that everyday standing and sitting poses will be offered but I will be making some of those as well. I plan on some Sci-Fi and action sets what else would you all like to see?

I'm following her as well!

Quote - I'm following her as well!

Very excellent! :)

Quote - Hey everyone if I am accepted as a content creator I plan on offering pose sets for Dawn and would be interested in hearing as the end user what would you all like to see? I am sure that everyday standing and sitting poses will be offered but I will be making some of those as well. I plan on some Sci-Fi and action sets what else would you all like to see?

I wouldn't bet on everyday poses showing up.  They certainly don't show up all that often for other characters.

I would be in the market for them however.

Quote - Hey everyone if I am accepted as a content creator I plan on offering pose sets for Dawn and would be interested in hearing as the end user what would you all like to see? I am sure that everyday standing and sitting poses will be offered but I will be making some of those as well. I plan on some Sci-Fi and action sets what else would you all like to see?

Add Mytical/Magical to the Sci-fi and Action and I'll be all set.

shadowhawk2zero,

I for once, would like some fashion poses to present Marvelous Designer clothes. There is a lot of poses today but the problem is that they are too exaggerated and over the top. Mannequins on the runway presenting every day outfits don't behave in that way and in fact it looks cheap.

Come to think of it that is the problem with all Poser/Daz poses, not just fashion.  What we want is poses like in the classical paintings, think Bouguereau!

Bouguereau -

Quote - Yes, but the point vintorix is making is:

It is textures you see, it is textures you render.

What coathanger you use is less important.

Textures and material room setup determine render quality.

For once, LOL, I agree with him. LOL.

Unfortunately all the great textures mean nothing if the light setup sucks. There are countess photographers for instance who ave no clue how to properly light a figure and no matter how beautiful she might be or how good her skin is if he does a hack job in the lighting she looses those qualities she brings to the shoot. Same holds true for 3D. how much is lost in a render with bad lighting?

Also, a good mesh means a lot in the final render, joints, correct structure and proportions, care with proper basic anatomical set up...and yes...a good texture contribute to thw overall and none of these elements should be left out for the final image quality.

Quote - In a world of vastly different body shapes...who can really comment on what is "realism".....

 

I mean really!!!

 

Oh my God!

Some tme ago CP offered a free character called appropriately Big Pig that resembled these proportions. I use it in my images sometime but it's lack of realism keeps him out of y favorite character roster list.

What I mean by realistic is the way the elements are put together. DinoRaul does this beautifully creating Dinosaurs that seem believable and fantasy creatures that though are purely fantasy have a "Feel" of realism and go nicely with human or animal figures from the Real world we are more familiar with. If Big Pig had been created by DinoRaul I am sure it would have looked more "Realistic" and thus more marketable instead of the Toonsh hack job it was.

And, now when I think of it when you make a collections from famous paintings you could mention that in your promo ie, "This is a collection of 25 poses from paintings by Courbet" and then go on to list the paintings which the poses come from.. Then you would have a sure customer in me, that's 100%.

So much willfull ignorance and false information.

But, hey, I won't disturb the general adulation, positive vibes and group hugs any more.

I'll simply stick to the wisdom of Robert A. Heinlein and refrain from trying to teach you to sing.

Or to make better Poser art by using better figures.

I've got actually better things to do.

Like, turning "Humans come in all shape and sizes so she's perfectly fine" V4 into a horribly fugly, totally average "realistic" girl by having the audacity to use actual human reference.

So she better fits to the other realistic figures I use.

And the realistic furniture.

And the realistic cars.

And the realistic grass.

And the realistic trees.

Speaking of trees, I think I also like my Faeries better when they look realistic.

Like Brian Froud painted them in his books.

Except for the ears.

I think I can live with a bit non-realism for the ears.

(All renders made by this artist were produced using only naturaly grown polygons and are guaranteed 100% displacement map free.)

;-)

Quote - And, now when I think of it when you make a collections from famous paintings you could mention that in your promo ie, "This is a collection of 25 poses from paintings by Courbet" and then go on to list the paintings which the poses come from.. Then you would have a sure customer in me, that's 100%.

Good thing about this is, after the artist has been dead for over 70 years, it's public use, so you can make them completely from the original. :)

About Poser World, I talked to Allen over a week ago about Dawn via email & he said they are definitely planning to do something for Dawn.

Every Poser user should join Poser World. Seriously: best deal around.

JoePublic, "Like, turning ... she's perfectly fine V4 into a horribly fugly, totally average "realistic" girl by having the audacity to use actual human reference."

I see. You mean like this by Mec4D?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/natasza-for-v4/80180

?

Quote - Hey everyone if I am accepted as a content creator I plan on offering pose sets for Dawn and would be interested in hearing as the end user what would you all like to see? I am sure that everyday standing and sitting poses will be offered but I will be making some of those as well. I plan on some Sci-Fi and action sets what else would you all like to see?

Dance poses.  That make use of her real toes!

Hi, I am definitely interested in this figure and would like to suggest putting the eyebrow maps on a different template if possible.

Quote - Hi, I am definitely interested in this figure and would like to suggest putting the eyebrow maps on a different template if possible.

Dawn doesn't have separate polygons to her eyebrows, so putting the eyebrows on a different template would mean breaking the UVs which would make it quite worse :(

"I see. You mean like this by Mec4D?"

Natasza is a nice texture set for V4 and the face would look great with my custom sculpt, but it doesn't turn V4 into a realistic human being.

Vintorix, if you truly can't see the difference between what I did and what Mec4D did, perhaps CGI art isn't the best creative outlet for you ?

But seriously, let it go and I don't feel like arguing with you or anybody else.

Let them have their "Waiting for Dawn" party and I'll stay in the kitchen and empty the fridge.

Quote - So much willfull ignorance and false information. But, hey, I won't disturb the general adulation, positive vibes and group hugs any more.

I'll simply stick to the wisdom of Robert A. Heinlein and refrain from trying to teach you to sing.

You're not trying to teach anyone to sing, you are trying to force us to think the same way as you do.

Quote - Or to make better Poser art by using better figures.

There is no such thing as "better art". Each piece of art has its reasons and goals. You've proven to us that you are able to make art the way you like it. We didn't see an impressionist artist trying to force a renaissance artist to use the same style (or if we did, that artist would be mocked to hell and back).

Quote - I've got actually better things to do.

It sure doesn't seem so, as you won't stop going on and on about this. You don't like the way she is, fine, move on, nobody's forcing you to use her.

Really, do you want some cheese with that whine? Enough, already.

JoePublic, "Vintorix, if you truly can't see the difference between what I did and what Mec4D did"

But you have never showed me anything that you have done! Please do and let us talk again.

Quote - Vintorix, if you truly can't see the difference between what I did and what Mec4D did, perhaps CGI art isn't the best creative outlet for you ?

Who ARE you to say what people should or should not be doing? Who made you king of everything? REALLY?

Sorry everyone else for my snapping, but I'm TIRED of this. JoePublic, NOBODY is forced to do things your way.

I could just as well say you're no artist because you do nothing but copy what you can see. But, unlike you, I don't think art is that limited.

Stop insulting people just because they think differently from you.

Ahem, excuse me folks, but this is a thread about......

Dawn.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Yes, indeed he does.  

As this photo points out, figures come in all shapes and sizes.  What is usually presented as the normal figure ... just isn't.  Dawn is more glamorized than what we may see in a YM/WCA (or when I look at the swimming pool below my window), but it isn't at all impossible to find a real person who has that figure ... without surgery.

Unlike Barbie who has always been unrealistic in the extreme.

At least women are no longer required to wear corsets ... much less corsets unhealthily tightened to achieve 18 inch (or smaller) waists.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Bet he has a horrible time buying clothing to fit off the rack.

I would hope that accounts for his present state of, um, disarray. But these days? Who knows... :)

 

I think he could clean up well with the right clothes:

 

http://gruuvy.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/despicable-me-gru.jpg

 

Rawn

A hug to Richard from me as well!

Sorry uncle Kiwi... but I feel that had to be said.

Quote - Hi, I am definitely interested in this figure and would like to suggest putting the eyebrow maps on a different template if possible.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with this. I groan everytime I use a hair prop with a color that doesn't match the eyebrows.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Hey everyone if I am accepted as a content creator I plan on offering pose sets for Dawn and would be interested in hearing as the end user what would you all like to see? I am sure that everyday standing and sitting poses will be offered but I will be making some of those as well. I plan on some Sci-Fi and action sets what else would you all like to see?

Dance poses.  That make use of her real toes!

this is happening! :)

"There is no such thing as "better art"."

When why SSS and ISL and Gamma Correction ? Why weightmapped joints ?

I never ever said that all (Poser) art has to be realistic.

Or even that realistic art is better art.

But "anything goes" isn't an excuse for bad meshes.

Decide if you want realism or not.

You cant have it both ways.

If you're happy with non-realism, fine.

But don't be mad at those who see "less realism" as a flaw and not just an "artistic decision".

Agree, better out than in. Lol.

If people want to publicise their own characters, can they please start a new thread and do it in that thread.

The forum mods have been very kind to us with this thread.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Again, if they just put the eyebrows on a separate template, we'd have to deal with more seams unnecessarily.

On the other hand, if you mean like V4's brows, a second layer of polys for transmapped eyebrows, I agree completely, but I suggested it already many days ago and got no word from it.

BUT... if they were to put it by now, it would mean replacing the mesh, reworking the rig, and possibly having to remake all the face morphs. It'd be SO MUCH MORE delay.

You can do it with materials.

Quote - JoePublic, "Vintorix, if you truly can't see the difference between what I did and what Mec4D did"

But you have never showed me anything that you have done! Please do and let us talk again.

Um, you haven't been paying attention. LOL

JP makes awesome morphs and rigs...it's a fact ;). It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's definitely his and I have great respect for his skills.

Laurie

Funny thing the ego... stroking it can make the most intelligent people look like silly fools (and I can vouch for that from bitter experience albeit thankfully before my 3D days).

It seems some folk are getting a little bit stir crazy.

Quote - On the other hand, if you mean like V4's brows, a second layer of polys for transmapped eyebrows, I agree completely, but I suggested it already many days ago and got no word from it.

This.

Nah, ya don't have to mess with seams ;). The eyebrow mesh/prop is all but transparent except for the eyebrow mask (like the eyelashes mask) which ya can make any color. You can still see the skin thru it. That requires making the skin texture with no eyebrows on it tho. Just skin, so that the eyebrow mask shows up over top. If you have her, take a look at V3's mesh...she had the eyebrow mesh :). Vicky 4 does too, tho very few texture makers use it, which is unfortunate.

Laurie

Quote - In a world of vastly different body shapes...who can really comment on what is "realism".....

 

I mean really!!!

 

And that, now, cannot be un-seen!    :blink: 

Dana

Oh, good point re eyebrows - something that a CA or two might consider...

A good skin texture with no eyebrow option, and ideally if a fibermesh eyebrow prop also made by one of the ZBrush wizards out there 

thanks

Antonia has no split eyebrow polygons and the character I made for her (... or was making before I had a huge file loss) had an eyebrow-less face texture plus transmap-powered brows that could change colors, driven by Blender nodes (I imagine DS is capable of doing something similar? But I wouldn't know).

Having those extra polys is surely better, but by now I highly doubt they would. It would be just too much work to include it by now, they'd have to remake a lot of stuff.

To all vendors who I have purchased products from numerous times over the years, especially Danie/Malforno, 3-D-C, OOT, 3dream/Mairy, SAV, Hongyu, Billy-T, Ironman, Ilona and others.

if you support Dawn by making products specifically for her you will definitely continue to get my business.

you could do pose packs for both Dawn and V4, but V4 specific products only will be of no interest to me once this figure is released.