Looks good!

For those that are new to dynamics, I did a little tutorial a while ago.

http://www.sharecg.com/v/46250/view/3/PDF-Tutorial/Basic-Dynamics

It was originally done for Miki 4, but can easilt adapted.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I don't like dynamic because everytime I open the Pz3 to re-render, I have to run the sim again to get girl and clothes back into position.

Just FYI - you don't have to run the sim again.  Use the animation bar to move to the frame you want.  Poser should remember the positions of the figures, dynamic clothing, dynamic hair, etc.

Quote - > Quote - Ouch.

Now, in English please. I need layman's terms ;). Are ya saying no clones and no V4 clothing fits derived from a clone unless ya make it yourself? If that's the case, urgh....

Laurie

That was how I read it and what I was recently told by a DAZ staff member in a pm when I asked. It means that you can make a clone for your own use but you wouldn't be able to distribute it. At least that's how I'm interpreting it.

It could be RTEncoded, but it still obviously doesn't encourage the sale of V4, although it would it's clothing....

Gotta crash. Check you guys tomorrow!

Perhaps when the HiveWire3D team appears they will give info on the usage of clones etc.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The project I have used 10 basic colours and will give you loads of mix and match options, along with options to make areas invisible.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I like the pockets on the combats, will there be an option to put the hands inside of the pockets?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - It could be RTEncoded, but it still obviously doesn't encourage the sale of V4, although it would it's clothing....

Would RTEncoding benefit DS ppl tho? o.O

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - It could be RTEncoded, but it still obviously doesn't encourage the sale of V4, although it would it's clothing....

Would RTEncoding benefit DS ppl tho? o.O

Laurie

Wouldn't matter. The DAZ EULA is very specific on the use of DAZ intellectual property and competing figures. So you'll need to encode any clone to it's original figure, the same goes for most commercial figures.

The main issue is that you could export any cloned clothing from Daz Studio without the need to own the figure

Quote - Will DAZ Studio Geo-Graphting work with messes like Dawn or any mesh that's not a DAZ Mesh ?

All that we can do to a DAZ mesh ,Can we do that to any mesh in DAZ Studio ?

 

 

Geografting is a function of DAZ Studio, and does not rely on the specifically made meshes.

Any figure brought into D/S can effectively have geografted parts made for it and added to it.

However, that will preclude it to being a d/s only product (unless people want to go the dson route for poser)

There's your answer, RorrKonn. 

RawArt, I KNEW you were a nice person.  I knew it, and I knew it from the very beginning...  :biggrin:

Sorry...TrueBlood Day.  (That was a Warlow quote)

Quote - There's your answer, RorrKonn. 

RawArt, I KNEW you were a nice person.  I knew it, and I knew it from the very beginning...  :biggrin:

Sorry...TrueBlood Day.  (That was a Warlow quote)

 

Yeah..it's true...I am a hellova guy :P

As for Warlow....I had high hopes for a real good evil villian there, now it looks like he may be the hero who takes down the evil "Billith"......They really need better evil in that series :P

Quote - > Quote - Zev0, "You think Hivewire is going to sit back and do nothing?"

True in the meaning that it is Hivewire that is calling the shots. If somebody made a clone and put up on sharecg (and 100+ other free stuff sites) tomorrow, Hivewire is the only company that can take it down.

But why should they do that?

To ensure their character survives? If Dawn can be duplicated on another figure with an already large existing library, why would people feel the need to invest in the original?

Because a shape duplicate is not a figure duplicate. Shapes are easibly changeable with morphs. Taking V4 and morphing her to look like Dawn would NEVER give you Dawn - V4 can never bend that well for starters, specially without magnets and JCMs.

Dawn looks beautiful and I love that, but that's the smallest of my love for her - we have her awesome rigging, her nicely placed polys, her well-made UV mapping, etc etc.

At this point guess Dawn needs everthing from mundane to ...

But then again everyone has alot of stuff in there run times allready for other meshes so in a way Dawn's inherited Macy's.

There's merchant resources of a clone more or less of V5 so you can model cloths on the merchant resources mesh.

All of the rules confuse me to no end.

HollyWood ,TrueBlood ,DAZ ,Poser all seem to lean alot further towards pretty.

With CGI we alt to see alot more Creatures like Aliens ,Predators etc etc there the ultimate bad guy.

Thanks for the info.

Quote - > Quote - There's your answer, RorrKonn. 

RawArt, I KNEW you were a nice person.  I knew it, and I knew it from the very beginning...  :biggrin:

Sorry...TrueBlood Day.  (That was a Warlow quote)

 

 

 

Yeah..it's true...I am a hellova guy :P

 

As for Warlow....I had high hopes for a real good evil villian there, now it looks like he may be the hero who takes down the evil "Billith"......They really need better evil in that series :P

Their logic could use some tweaking.  If there is any logic. ;-)  First Warlow is creepy spirit thang in Sookie's bathroom, then he's an old guy, no -- old guy is a Fairy GF, and so on and so forth.  I have no idea why I'm so hooked on that crazy show, along with millions of others.  :-)  I am though.

That's why I'm hoping we get a vampire Dawn.  

Quote - HollyWood ,TrueBlood ,DAZ ,Poser all seem to lean alot further towards pretty.

Yep -- not a bad tooth in the lot.  Well...unless you count the folks from Hot Shot, but they're were-panthering in silence.

Rikki the were-bitch, would make a heck of a Dawn character!  If it wasn't for the small matter of copyright, of course.

I'm gonna go...render something red.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - It could be RTEncoded, but it still obviously doesn't encourage the sale of V4, although it would it's clothing....

Would RTEncoding benefit DS ppl tho? o.O

Laurie

 

Wouldn't matter. The DAZ EULA is very specific on the use of DAZ intellectual property and competing figures. So you'll need to encode any clone to it's original figure, the same goes for most commercial figures.

The main issue is that you could export any cloned clothing from Daz Studio without the need to own the figure

The only way to know what DAZ will allow regarding a clone of any of their figures is to directly ask DAZ.  DAZ is the only one that can give permission...no matter what anyone else thinks.    

Because a shape duplicate is not a figure duplicate. Shapes are easibly changeable with morphs. Taking V4 and morphing her to look like Dawn would NEVER give you Dawn

True it will never give you Dawn. BUT this is why V4 is hardly not used in Daz anymore, because her clone is available on Genesis and Genesis2, giving her better bending and rigging. So to say a clone cannot replace a figure is not entirely true.

"Better rigging" is not "Dawn's rigging".

A lot of people like the bends of Genesis, and I understand that.

To me, it looks a lot like rubber - from the renders I've seen. Won't touch DS or DSON for Poser with a 20-feet pole.

And there's also that: Genesis works well in DS and works like c**p in Poser, Dawn works well in both, so Genesis can't replace Dawn. (True enough, Dawn can't replace Genesis either)

Quote - "Better rigging" is not "Dawn's rigging".

A lot of people like the bends of Genesis, and I understand that.

To me, it looks a lot like rubber - from the renders I've seen. Won't touch DS or DSON for Poser with a 20-feet pole.

 

And there's also that: Genesis works well in DS and works like c**p in Poser, Dawn works well in both, so Genesis can't replace Dawn. (True enough, Dawn can't replace Genesis either)

Agreed. However a clone will have an impact one way or another. Also as mentioned before, its up to Daz to even allow it.

Quote - > Quote - "Better rigging" is not "Dawn's rigging".

A lot of people like the bends of Genesis, and I understand that.

To me, it looks a lot like rubber - from the renders I've seen. Won't touch DS or DSON for Poser with a 20-feet pole.

 

And there's also that: Genesis works well in DS and works like c**p in Poser, Dawn works well in both, so Genesis can't replace Dawn. (True enough, Dawn can't replace Genesis either)

Agreed. However a clone will have an impact one way or another. Also as mentioned before, its up to Daz to even allow it.

If someone went and released a "Nicky4" morph for Dawn, then Daz wouldn't be able to do much. If they threatened legal action in the US they may be able to someone to back down. Whether they would actually take that legal action is doubtful. But what if the creator lived in Europe, Asia or Australia where legislation is different and US laws don't apply (despite what US citizens think).

Infringes DAZ EULA? As I wouldn't be using a DAZ product, I've never agreed to it, it doesn't apply.

A Daz clone is just a morph Zev0, an empty obj shell without weight maps or bones. You cannot use it without the original, the full Dawn figure. But lets us wait until we hear what Hivewire has to say. I can't believe that Daz would want to try to stop something that so many wants, not after all the flak it has already taken.

But if they do, it will be fun to watch the unstoppable object meets the immovable mountain.

I'm not sure if that would work or not.. I could play around wiht the morph brush

Quote - I like the pockets on the combats, will there be an option to put the hands inside of the pockets?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Agree, lets see what the HiveWire3D team have to, until then it's just speculation and most of the time specultation is worth...........

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

No probs, I just thought Dawn might get some attitude poses to put her hands in her pockets.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Testing the satin shader still. This time on dawn...still having difficulties with getting other colours to work as I would like.

You're experiencing the classic mistake of the non-math shader person.

For any given setup (gamma, lights, environment, pose, angle, color) you can find a shader setting that looks OK as you expect it to. (Similarly, you could just draw it and it would look OK, too) Change anything, and now you moved to a different position on the response curve of the shader, and now it doesn't look OK. You see the result as needing "tweaking".

If you are familiar with mathematical graphs, the situation is this: Given a single setup (i.e. a single X value in your graph) you keep tweaking until the shader output (Y value) seems to look OK. But the shape of your graph (how it will respond to all the other X values) is not visible to you and you have no idea that what you've got is wildly incorrect. Essentially you're looking at your entire graph through a pinhole, and adjusting until that one point lines up with your pinhole.

But as soon as you move your pinhole (setup changes, i.e. different X value) you discover that your function is not in line with that pinhole, so you move it up or down to re-align. But now go back to your first pinhole and you find you moved the entire function, not just the point you wanted to tweak, and your original OK results are now terrible.

I don't know what you're doing with your bricks so I can't help you fix it. You will faff about endlessly if you're eyeballing your pinhole.

Regarding the Dawn clone...

Is there any precedent in U.S. law of someone successfully suing over one 3D mesh having a similar/exact shape (yet different vertices & mesh design) to another mesh? 

I don't think copyright law extends that far in the U.S. This seems like something that could be threatened but not enforced.

In Europe, I believe you all have what are legally called "moral rights" which might be violated in this case, but DAZ3D is a U.S. company.

Well basically legal action would be stop distribution, which would be against the distributing outlet (rdna, rendo, share cg etc) and that is about as easy as a letter.

In order to make a v4 shaped morph for dawn youd need to have the v4 geometry for reference at the very least.  If you have that then you are using v4 thus agreeing to the EULA.

I assume all this clone business is to get v4 clothes to autofit in DS... why not just make a dawn shape for genesis/genesis2.  Fit your v4 stuff to genesis via whatever the existing method is, then dial in your dawn morph to get your shape.. I assume you can bake in that shape into a new OBJ somehow and then rig it for dawn instead.

In this way I cant see any copyright issues aside from whether Hivewire would allow the 'genesis to dawn' shape to be distributed, as they do own the rights to that shape.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - "Better rigging" is not "Dawn's rigging".

A lot of people like the bends of Genesis, and I understand that.

To me, it looks a lot like rubber - from the renders I've seen. Won't touch DS or DSON for Poser with a 20-feet pole.

 

And there's also that: Genesis works well in DS and works like c**p in Poser, Dawn works well in both, so Genesis can't replace Dawn. (True enough, Dawn can't replace Genesis either)

Agreed. However a clone will have an impact one way or another. Also as mentioned before, its up to Daz to even allow it.

If someone went and released a "Nicky4" morph for Dawn, then Daz wouldn't be able to do much. If they threatened legal action in the US they may be able to someone to back down. Whether they would actually take that legal action is doubtful. But what if the creator lived in Europe, Asia or Australia where legislation is different and US laws don't apply (despite what US citizens think).

Infringes DAZ EULA? As I wouldn't be using a DAZ product, I've never agreed to it, it doesn't apply.

As LROG said we will just have to wait and see what happens..  And yes speculation can be a very bad thing..  We will just have to wait and see what Hivewire do until then all the specualtion in the world will not help anyone and in some cases can do more harm than good..

Quote - > Quote - Testing the satin shader still. This time on dawn...still having difficulties with getting other colours to work as I would like.

You're experiencing the classic mistake of the non-math shader person.

For any given setup (gamma, lights, environment, pose, angle, color) you can find a shader setting that looks OK as you expect it to. (Similarly, you could just draw it and it would look OK, too) Change anything, and now you moved to a different position on the response curve of the shader, and now it doesn't look OK. You see the result as needing "tweaking".

If you are familiar with mathematical graphs, the situation is this: Given a single setup (i.e. a single X value in your graph) you keep tweaking until the shader output (Y value) seems to look OK. But the shape of your graph (how it will respond to all the other X values) is not visible to you and you have no idea that what you've got is wildly incorrect. Essentially you're looking at your entire graph through a pinhole, and adjusting until that one point lines up with your pinhole.

But as soon as you move your pinhole (setup changes, i.e. different X value) you discover that your function is not in line with that pinhole, so you move it up or down to re-align. But now go back to your first pinhole and you find you moved the entire function, not just the point you wanted to tweak, and your original OK results are now terrible.

I don't know what you're doing with your bricks so I can't help you fix it. You will faff about endlessly if you're eyeballing your pinhole.

BB, from a Poser perspective, would you give us an example of how math might stop this from happening?

I don't understand. Why are people wanting to make Dawn shaped like Vicky 4? Don't most pole morph the bejeezus out of Vicky to make look less Vicky like?

I think I have to strongly agree on the EULA thing.  Once V4 is installed, whether you actually read it or not, you agree to adhere to it.  DAZ allows clothing, textures and so forth to be made for their figures but it is completely at their discretion to stop something based on their figures if they don't like it.  It isn't about copyright, fair use or anything like that, it's about a license agreement.

If someone wants to roll the dice and is hell bent on trying to circumvent the license, then that's on them.

One could always ask DAZ but I'd be surprised if the answer is not "no".  At this point in time I just don't see them wanting to facilitate Dawn in any way.  On the one hand it would be facilitating DS users but DAZ controls both the application and the figure in question, so going against the grain is not going to leave much of a leg to stand on.

Funny enough, I want Dawn to look like........... Dawn. Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I don't understand. Why are people wanting to make Dawn shaped like Vicky 4? Don't most pole morph the bejeezus out of Vicky to make look less Vicky like?

I could be wrong as I'm new to autofit -but I'm guessing it's for autofit to work on her. I hope someone will let me know if I'm guessing right.

Quote - In Europe, I believe you all have what are legally called "moral rights" which might be violated in this case, but DAZ3D is a U.S. company.

Just to point out - Europe is a continent, not a country. The European Union does not equal Europe. And not all members of the EU have all of  their national laws supercedeed by EU law. So you might want to specify which country you're refering to.

/pendant

I leave all the lawyer stuff to the lawyers, they get paid to know that stuff.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Yes.  The point is not that people want Dawn to look like V4.  They want Dawn to be able to wear V4's clothes.

And she will via the Dawn XD and  possible Dawn WW option.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

You're exactly right. :)

Quote - > Quote - I don't understand. Why are people wanting to make Dawn shaped like Vicky 4? Don't most pole morph the bejeezus out of Vicky to make look less Vicky like?

I could be wrong as I'm new to autofit -but I'm guessing it's for autofit to work on her. I hope someone will let me know if I'm guessing right.

No such thing as moral rights. Law is law, rights are part of law and are based on legislation. Who knows if the DAZ EULA is actually legal anyway, many companies rely on customers not being aware of their rights.

They also rely on big-name lawyers frightening people. The bigger the company, the bigger the lawyers.

Daz may be able to copyright the V4 mesh but Dawn will have a different mesh and UV mapping. I doubt they can copyright an actual shape as such.

If they can can, then I claim copyright of the sphere and the cube and derivatives, so every one must stop using them now.

Quote - I leave all the lawyer stuff to the lawyers, they get paid to know that stuff.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Lawyers get paid to argue their case, legal or not, judges get paid to know and apply the law.

In either case, I wounld sooner see people show what they have been doing and asking for various options than speculating on things that are outside of their reach.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - In either case, I wounld sooner see people show what they have been doing and asking for various options than speculating on things that are outside of their reach.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Most of us don't have her to do anything with lol

I'm surprised the thread has remained legible this long without Dawn cats

It's a long time till August, wonder if I can make a stick look like Dawn

Quote - I parent conforming hair to figures it wasn't made for all the time. I never have a problem with it. Morphs still work fine.

Laurie

Morphs for short hair but if I try it with a long hair made as conformer for lets say, V3 and try the parenting thing with say V4 of Angela1 where I try for instance to flow the hair on neck and chest back as if wind-blown the crown flips forward on the head making it necessary to reposition the crown. If the hair has these flowing back or side to side morphs included as pose files sometimes it seems to work better but if it doesn't it is a pain.

I prefer buying or using the Hr2 hair for thi. Some of the better hair product creators offer their products with both the Cr2 and Hr2 included so we can choose and i love this best.

Those that have, can show thiungs, those without can still ask for things.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

randym77,  "The point is not that people want Dawn to look like V4.  They want Dawn to be able to wear V4's clothes"
 
Yes. The morph is used only temporarily- Once the cloth fits onto the V4 form Dawn morphs back to her real form, and the cloth follow. Everything is invisible for the user who see only the final result.

"Who knows if the DAZ is actually legal anyway, many companies rely on customers not being aware of their rights."

EU has already invalidated many of the US EULAs, they are illegal here.

That really isn't much fun, is it LOL

Quote - Those that have, can show thiungs, those without can still ask for things.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I would think that Daz, who owns the V4 figure, holds absolute sway in what is done with and to that figure. I don't think and judge in the US is gonna argue that.

Laurie