Quote - Criticising a Poser or DAZ figure for it's technical and artistic shortcomings in this forum is pretty much like telling a mother that her baby is ugly and not like simply suggesting a better quality brush to an artist so he can make better paintings.  :-(
Way too much emotions and knee-jerk reactions.

Pretty much.

Amazing how what is basically a mathematical recipe can elicit so much emotion, eh? 

Quote - But for better or worse, photorealism is the future of CGI. Once one game or movie fully jumps the Uncanny Valley, others will follow, because they have to.

Yes and no. 

I've seen some hellishly-close photorealism, and it's getting very close. I daresay it's getting close enough that real human actors will likely become either voice-actors or simply obsolete in 30 years. Photo models will likely be useless in 10 years. So yeah - you're definitely right in that aspect.

In fairness, I can say "no" as well, because not everyone wants to shoot for that unless they want that kind of career goal. For instance, I'll likely never have the time and energy to push that particular envelope, but that's okay. 

But... all that said, I suspect that at the very least a nod towards easing photorealistic renders is a must-have for future editions of any CG hobbyist program.

Quote - I don't regret the journey as I learned a lot, but I still would have rather used someone else's ready-made figures instead, if only that someone would have made them for me.

Exactly - and note that this happens all the time in the professional realm as well. It'l cost you roughly $5k-$15k for just a head, but you get it exclusively, with all the maps (texture, normals, displacement, etc), properly rigged in the app of your choice, and it's royalty-free for commercial use once your check clears.

 (Now you get to animate it, but...)

Quote - And yes, the "Average Poser hobbyist" is either not interrested in or simply can't do all the work necessary to produce his/her own photorealistic figures.

And there is nothing wrong with that, because, after all, not having to do it all by yourself and being able to use pre-made content is what Poser is all about, isn't it ?

So where is the "insult" in wanting better "figure-tools" so that even those who are not gifted with the ability to sculpt or rig from scratch can achieve as much realism as they want with a single dial-spin ?

 

Agreed. It's not just that. It's not that the average Poser hobbyist is incapable or too lazy or not gifted enough or lacking in time to do the work, it's also, I expect, that a great many are more interested in producing actual finished RENDERS than in making the component parts. Getting some renders to their final state takes weeks in some instances. If that's the part of CGI you enjoy most, it makes sense to pay others to do what they enjoy the most, if that's creating content.

Quote - But I get it.

Criticising a Poser or DAZ figure for it's technical and artistic shortcomings in this forum is pretty much like telling a mother that her baby is ugly and not like simply suggesting a better quality brush to an artist so he can make better paintings.  :-(
Way too much emotions and knee-jerk reactions.

 

:D

Quote - Ironically, I'm not really that keen to produce "looks like photographs" kind of renders because I hate long render times. But I decided years ago that I want my figures to at least look more like real humans, regardless of the time and work it would cost me.

I don't regret the journey as I learned a lot, but I still would have rather used someone else's ready-made figures instead, if only that someone would have made them for me.

Exactly. Except I enjoy making pictures far too much, and if I find myself becoming unhappy with Poser, I don't break out a modelling app. I just pull out my camera and play with it for a few months. I may have to do that again. If it's pics of peeps I want, models aren't that much more expensive to hire than Vicky -- and they usually bring their own clothes.

I tried subdividing him twice. I'm not sure it looked substantially better, but it sure had an impact on render times >_<

He may not be "pretty" - but I think he looks like a real person.

Nah, I don't think so.  Ignoring the weird green bits around the hair line and the "Suede shoes" hair, the first thing I see wrong with it is the lower eyelids, same as I noticed in the one you posted earlier.  The lips are corpse colour and the eyes have a weird blue/green glow.  

To me 3D meshes can pass as realistic provided they are rendered with the right material configuration and lighting. Be it humans, buildings, cars or whatever.

Quote -

 

Well, IMHO (and nothing more, really), I don't think that it's any kind of "ugly" factor, but rather the lack of flexibility in the figure.

For instance, Take a peek up there for a moment. I'm able to turn the lanky, scrawny, balloon-tittied, 7' 9" tall tiny-headed supermodel into, well... that. Up there. A short, squat, but still hella-pretty 4' 3" little-thing with real body propotions, that looks nothing like the default V4.

If you can put that same potential for flexibility into the Poser default figures (without undue and excessive work mind you), and still have the result usable with all the common pose/expression/morph sets? Then you'll have something.

It's sorta what I've been harping about all this time, yanno?

Cute character! I have to say I agree here with you. It is not about the default that keeps them from being supported, it is about the flexibility. If they had a really good morph pack equivalent to morphs ++, I think they would be more things to more people and therefore more "attractive" for their flexibility.

Quote - > Quote - Pigeon holes again.  And we don't fit.

 > Quote - For "most of the CG hobbyist market", on what authority?

Just from looking through and about the galleries here, at R'otica, at DAZ, at... 

Given the lack of dynamic clothing in both markets and galleries, I'd certainly love to see your evidence for that statement.

 (edited because R'osity's edit box has really crappy font-handling)

Which gives you at best a fraction, less than 10% of all Poser users, so you're starting with a minority and trying to make even a smaller minority.

Lack of dynamic clothing, in slutwear yeah, but who needs dynamic for three cloth triangeles and three threads.  For lack of ds dynamic, blame daz for not producing the reasonably inexpensive method for the creators to create, which daz has not, and in all likelyhood will not.  You have in daz, one source, and one source only. 

The OP put up one picture, the intent, "Hey!  This ain't as bad as the v thing fanbois try to make it sound!"  The third post,nitpick the eyes, and within the first page, off on the inevitable treatices on why it's not "realistic".  It never fails, and it's pretty damned sickening.  Then come the inevitable treatces on why the "average poser user" won't learn to do some things, based on less than a ten percent sample of the total, and further based on the smaller percentage of that ten percent that actually post their work somewhere. 

I don't even look at any galleries, simply because 99.99% of what's there is not what I want to do, therefore, is not interesting, and not important.  The OP asked basically as simple question, "Is this attractive?"  Not to have the same hackneyed reasons that are endlessly posted as to why it's not.  The answer in my case is, yes, she's very attractive.  But some won't like it because it's a poser figure, and have no other reason.

Doric.

Don't know if I would ever have looked at the other Poser figures without this thread. Really liking the Alyson2 variations. I think I might get quite a bit of use out of these, 'specially with a bit of Ana mixed in. Haven't got to the male figures yet apart from Tyler.

Quote - And yes, the "Average Poser hobbyist" is either not interrested in or simply can't do all the work necessary to produce his/her own photorealistic figures.

"The native Poser figures are ugly" -er...no"

and photorealistic relates to this, how? 

The posted link to a youtube, place the amount of cash necessary in my hand and I might be tempted to try it.  Otherwise, it relates to native poser figures, how?  YEs, yes, yes, for illustrating what can be done with an unlimited amount of cash, I caught that part.  I also caught in the credits something about "laser scan", which means it should be photorealistic, as in effect, it's a 3d photograph reduced to data points. 

I guess the photorealists in the 3d world are the equivalent of the rivet counters in HO scale railroading.  "There are only sixteen rivets in the front of the smokebox and there should be seventeen!"  And the door hits them in the ass on their way out.

Doric.

Quote - [
Cute character! I have to say I agree here with you. It is not about the default that keeps them from being supported, it is about the flexibility. If they had a really good morph pack equivalent to morphs ++, I think they would be more things to more people and therefore more "attractive" for their flexibility.

I beg to differ, although I do agree that lack of flexibility is a detriment. The Poser figures main drawback is the lack of support  from SM/Poser/Content Paradise. 

Quote - Don't know if I would ever have looked at the other Poser figures without this thread. Really liking the Alyson2 variations. I think I might get quite a bit of use out of these, 'specially with a bit of Ana mixed in. Haven't got to the male figures yet apart from Tyler.

Haven't played with Tyler much, James, to me, average working stiff, maybe "good joe".  Simon, haven't been able to classify yet.  Ryan, older wise ass is what immediately comes to my mind.  Playing with Rex now, might be interesting after a trip to the face room.  Age and build are about what I'm looking for, just face needs a little.

Katie, a couple minutes with the morph tool, not so much rounded face, she gains a couple years pretty easy.  Hip/thigh joints don't bend worth a dam, thirty degrees and she's coming apart, just put clothes on her and cover it up. 

Jessie is the one I have problems working with, so I just kinda ignore her.  They're all usable, just have to work with them a little.  If you do something with them and don't like it, that's what the "control-z" is for.  But the base Alyson 2, a trip to the face room is mandatory.

Doric.

Yeah, the native Poser figures just seem to lurk in the runtime like an afterthought. SM don't seem to be very enthusiastic about pushing them. Pity, 'coz they actually seem to be quite interesting and I never even noticed all the variations were there! (Agree that base Alyson2 isn't very inspiring though!)

Playing about with Izumi at the moment. I think I've just made myself a Miki4 clone! :biggrin:

Have to remember that programming is SM's core, the figures are just a freebie with it, not what we bought it for.  But they're improving a lot, if the next ones are improved as much as Rex and Roxie, they'll be hard to beat.  Roxie bends beautifully, you can put her in some extreme positions and she doesn't come apart or develop "crotch crinkles".  Improve her elbows and knees a little, she'd be hard to beat by anyone. 

I wish a few more vendors would get aboard when it comes to clothing though, that's about all any of them are really lacking.  EClark1894 is doing some nice freebies, got everything he's put up recently, mostly Anastasia and Kate, both of which are still worthy of using.  But one man can't fill all the needs there, a couple more would go a long way in making them more usable.

Doric.

"I guess the photorealists in the 3d world are the equivalent of the rivet counters in HO scale railroading.  "There are only sixteen rivets in the front of the smokebox and there should be seventeen!"  And the door hits them in the ass on their way out."

I 'm quite proud to be a rivet counter.

That's why I won contests and that's why you can still buy copys of the models that I built almost 20 years ago.

If you think ART and CRAFT are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid you have been misinformed.

Anyway, in a time when ART can be anything from sealing your own crap in a tin can to glueing your breakfast to your kitchen table and hanging that on a wall, I guess I rather be a bad artist than a bad craftsman.

:-)

Quote - Have to remember that programming is SM's core, the figures are just a freebie with it, not what we bought it for.  But they're improving a lot, if the next ones are improved as much as Rex and Roxie, they'll be hard to beat.  Roxie bends beautifully, you can put her in some extreme positions and she doesn't come apart or develop "crotch crinkles".  Improve her elbows and knees a little, she'd be hard to beat by anyone. 

I wish a few more vendors would get aboard when it comes to clothing though, that's about all any of them are really lacking.  EClark1894 is doing some nice freebies, got everything he's put up recently, mostly Anastasia and Kate, both of which are still worthy of using.  But one man can't fill all the needs there, a couple more would go a long way in making them more usable.

Doric.

Glad you like  them Doric. Yeah, I know that Poser's main emphasis is with the software, and frankly if I had to choose either the software or the figures, I'd choose the software. That said, I still believe that if SM would do something like make Rx and Roxie availalble OUTSIDE of Poser, put them up for sale on Content Paradis and really promote them at least as hard as RDNA promotes My Michelle, their popularity would probably grow.

Quote -
I 'm quite proud to be a rivet counter.

Ah, well.  If rivet counting was your thing.  However, I've never claimed to be an artist.  Craftsman, yes.  Professional craftsman, and working at impossible tolerances for probably 9999 out of 10000 people.

BUt I never wanted to be the most hated person in the room.

""The native Poser figures are ugly" - er.. no"

Which also has about as much to do with the topic as any discussion of chasing the will of the wisp, or "photorealism".  If there was a big clamor for it, it would probably have it's own forum.  Most of us are content with what we can do, which the average user far exceeds your belief, also a unique property of the rivet counter.  If you're not satisfied with what my renders, that you will never see, look like, my sympathy and kindly take the quarter you'll find on the table to call the chaplain and see if he gives a shit.

Doric

Quote - Glad you like  them Doric. Yeah, I know that Poser's main emphasis is with the software, and frankly if I had to choose either the software or the figures, I'd choose the software. That said, I still believe that if SM would do something like make Rx and Roxie availalble OUTSIDE of Poser, put them up for sale on Content Paradis and really promote them at least as hard as RDNA promotes My Michelle, their popularity would probably grow.

I haven't tried, but I don't know if they'll work outside of P10 or PP2014.  I don't remember reading anything saying they wouldn't work with P9 or PP2012 but I think that's as far back as weight mapping was supported, I could be wrong.  I"m not sure if the skinning method or sub division would make a difference, I think those are instructions to the programming rather than for the figure.  THey'd be pretty low res though.

Doric.

In my mind, the arguments boil down to something like this:

Daz is now the enemy. But it's okay. Poser figures are just as good. Nay, they are much better for x,y,z reason, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a Daz fanboi, too lazy to model and texture, only interested in making one-click sparkly NVIAT images.

I'm quickly reminded of what I dislike the most about this attitude, so prevalent here, and its elitist objection to concentrating on improving actual renders.

And the suggestion that the reason I don't think Poser figures look realistic (realistic, dammit, not photofrickinrealistic) is that I haven't spent enough time looking at real live humans -- that suggestion really took the cake.

Okay. LMFAO. I'm done.

Quote - Which also has about as much to do with the topic as any discussion of chasing the will of the wisp, or "photorealism".

The OP made a claim about beauty, it is not unreasonable that people will comment on the beauty of their example. Photorealism may not be in the topic but it directly relates to how beautiful a Poser character looks. Humans rendered with attributes that don't match what you see through your eyes (or cameras, film, TV etc) are not human, they are aliens and zombies, which are beautiful only to other aliens and zombies, and the odd fetishist. If Poser native figures came with a better, more photoreal look, they would lend themselves to better, more beautiful renders. Seems pretty on topic to me.

Izuzi (Alyson2) - masquerading as Miki4.

Alyson2 can be made to look quite attractive. I know, I've done it and with no more than her own built in morphs. Thing is, at least for me, when i buy a morph like Anastasia, then usually, that's the only face I use anyway, because that's what I bought her for. So I don't usually morph her much if at all.

Quote - > Quote - Glad you like  them Doric. Yeah, I know that Poser's main emphasis is with the software, and frankly if I had to choose either the software or the figures, I'd choose the software. That said, I still believe that if SM would do something like make Rx and Roxie availalble OUTSIDE of Poser, put them up for sale on Content Paradis and really promote them at least as hard as RDNA promotes My Michelle, their popularity would probably grow.

I haven't tried, but I don't know if they'll work outside of P10 or PP2014.  I don't remember reading anything saying they wouldn't work with P9 or PP2012 but I think that's as far back as weight mapping was supported, I could be wrong.  I"m not sure if the skinning method or sub division would make a difference, I think those are instructions to the programming rather than for the figure.  THey'd be pretty low res though.

Doric.

I say that because I'd like to start making clothing for Rex and Roxie to give away as freebies, but I don't have 2014 yet, so I can't make clothes for them yet.

It's Alyson's face that puts me off....I can barely stand to look at her for the time it takes for Anastasia to load ;).

Laurie

Load the figure, load the morph, create a folder to put it in, save it and you'll never have to load the default again.

“If Poser native figures came with a better, more photoreal look, they would lend themselves to better, more beautiful renders.”

Which seems to be predicated on the notion that in order to be ‘better’ or more ‘beautiful’, the work has to be strive for photorealism. That may be a requirement for some medico-legal application or Hollywood FX job but surely for fine art or illustration, it is an elective and neither necessary nor necessarily sufficient? If that is not the case then there’s gonna be a helluva big bonfire in art collections around the world. At any rate, Zygote’s still in business. Maybe they have some of Posette’s relatives in storage ÷)

Someone is supposed to have asked Abe Lincoln how long a man’s legs should be. Abe reportedly said; “Long enough to reach the ground.” How ‘real’ or ‘attractive’ a figure should be is real or attractive enough to blow your skirt up. Unless you’re dependent on someone else’s opinion on the matter for your livelihood or your happiness then that’s it, that’s all there is and there ain’t no more. Some are going to see Posette being real enough, pretty enough, and gosh darn, people like her. Someone else is going to say that the body scanning laser’s wavelength was off by a nanometer, rendering figure X useless for serious work. One of the few things you can take to the bank is that one size will never fit all – thank goodness. The inability or refusal to recognize that (coupled with a tenacious zeal to make it not so) are probably behind 90% of the arguments here – maybe in the world. As W. C. Fields said; “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again. Then give up, there’s no sense in being a damn fool about it.”

To me, the arguments boil down to...

I either like to use the figure or I don't.  I don't care who made it, who published it, why or when.  If there's a figure I can use - with or without a morph - (assuming I don't have to jump through hoops to get it working), then I will. 

Quote - To me, the arguments boil down to...

I either like to use the figure or I don't.  I don't care who made it, who published it, why or when.  If there's a figure I can use - with or without a morph - (assuming I don't have to jump through hoops to get it working), then I will. 

^

Quote - If Poser native figures came with a better, more photoreal look, they would lend themselves to better, more beautiful renders. Seems pretty on topic to me.

That is the thought of one person, an opinion, that beyond the confines of one cranium, has no bearing on anything.  More beautiful as in vicky wearing a cast iron pantie, two bronze cups on her chest, a sword in her hand and going against a batallion of orks with scifi weapons?  Oh, yes.  Very realistic.  Manga would do it better.  And while you're at it, pump her boobs out to look like watermelons, that adds to the realism, yanno. 

The only thing I'm interested in is "Does this render convey what I want it t?"  If yes, fine.  If no, it's probably not because of some imagined lack of photorealism, it's probably because of poor composition and lighting.  Which only means, "Start over."

Doric.

Quote - Nah, I don't think so.  Ignoring the weird green bits around the hair line and the "Suede shoes" hair, the first thing I see wrong with it is the lower eyelids, same as I noticed in the one you posted earlier.  The lips are corpse colour and the eyes have a weird blue/green glow.  

I agre that the colours turned out ... less that perfect. I tried to remedy that in Photoshop but I think I madeit worse L

*I don't agre about the lowr eyelids though. I've seen people with eyelids like that.

Quote -
I guess the photorealists in the 3d world are the equivalent of the rivet counters in HO scale railroading.  "There are only sixteen rivets in the front of the smokebox and there should be seventeen!"  And the door hits them in the ass on their way out.

Doric.

ROFL! This is so funny because of several things :D (and funny in a good way, mind!)

First of all, I DO strive to do phtorealistic. Not always, but it's one of my goals to SOME DAY produce a Poser picture that looks like a photo. I've (IMO) come close a few times, but never quite crossed into Uncanny Valley - yet.

At the same time, I like to work with figures like Bong - a character we all can agree is nothing REAL. But still, putting him in a "real" setting may do something. 

And the other reason this is funny is.. I'm married to one of the rivet-counting guys when it comes to his Model Trains :lol:

I like a certain amount of realism, but going to the "photorealistic" sometimes defeats the purpose.  So wrapped up in the tiny details that the original idea is pushed into a secondary or lower place, the results are never satisfying.  For those that make it their "thing", fine, just don't expect me to try to follow or seem to wish to do that. 

My other pet peeve is those that try to define what the "average user" is willing or capable of.  They're always wrong, and will never admit it.

Doric.

Quote - If they had a really good morph pack equivalent to morphs ++, I think they would be more things to more people and therefore more "attractive" for their flexibility.

This, right here. This is what Poser needs for its default figures.

====

Quote - Which gives you at best a fraction, less than 10% of all Poser users, so you're starting with a minority and trying to make even a smaller minority.

We can only go with what we see. Now if you want to count all the crappy commercials with the uber-crappy animation featuring the default Poser 4 'toon figures, well...

Tell you what- come up with a better and verifiable metric, and we'll go with that.

Quote - Lack of dynamic clothing, in slutwear yeah, but who needs dynamic for three cloth triangeles and three threads.

Not like the marketplace is overflowing with clothing fit for a True Scotsman, either... ;)

IOW, the point still stands - big lack of dynamic clothing in the marketplace, which is QED for a general lack of usage for the stuff. Like always, if you have a better proof, then let's see it.

Quote - The OP put up one picture, the intent, "Hey!  This ain't as bad as the v thing fanbois try to make it sound!"  The third post,nitpick the eyes, and within the first page, off on the inevitable treatices on why it's not "realistic".

Finally - some red meat to latch onto! Thought I was going to starve for a moment there...

'k, couple o' bits: 

1. I personally don't nitpick on others' work, unless it's a commercial product or they specifically solicit merciless criticism. Just not my thing (probably because in spite of my years around this biz, I still suck at this whole arteest thing. Now give me some code to review? Stand back, bitches... )

2. Like it or lump it, some folks want realistic, and view CG through that lens. BFD.

Quote - Then come the inevitable treatces on why the "average poser user" won't learn to do some things

You're welcome to propose a hypothesis as well, yanno. 

Personally, I blame time constraints, coupled with a learning curve that scares most mortals. Nothing wrong with making those two bits easier, is there? Would you feel threatened by such a thing, perhaps? Lord knows I don't. I prefer eyeballing digital images without the sickening cross-eyed balloon-tittied slack-jawed semi-rigor-mortis poses, thanks much. Some personality would be nice too.

Quote - I don't even look at any galleries, simply because 99.99% of what's there is not what I want to do, therefore, is not interesting, and not important.

You should sometime... most of the time it's the equivalent of watching Sharknado 60 times in a row, but sometimes you come across some rather kick-ass stuff that makes it all worthwhile.

Quote -
Anyway, in a time when ART can be anything from sealing your own crap in a tin can...

He's not kidding about the crap-in-a-can, folks.

(marked language due to the destination)

I don't think photorealism has anything to do with it. Not a thing. For what I can see, the people who strive for that seriously are generally technically minded enough to be making textures and modelling anyway.

When I say 'realistic', I mean: Not a toon.

The native Poser figures in my runtime are basically toons. Fine for some purposes, but not for most of my renders. A couple of badly supported exceptions exist. But since I'm not skilled enough to make them look any different from the defaults which everyone is using, I'll rarely render them.

Toon isn't automatically ugly. To me, what is ugly is a half-toon with a photographic texture and lovely SSS. It just screams all sorts of wrong to me. Oh well. I guess I'm the only one.

I don't quite see that. Aiko 3 is a toon. Terai Yuki is a toon. The Girl is a toon. The all have somewhat exxagerated features.

I don't think the native Poser figures share that characteristic.

Quote - ...Oh well. I guess I'm the only one.

No, you aren't LOL.

I didn't like the Poser 8 figures (Ryan, Alyson, etc) since the day I loaded one. Like moriador, I can see all sorts of things wrong with them and therefore, unless it's Tyler and/or Ana (thank you Blackhearted), I'll never ever use them. Yeah,  it's a matter of personal taste. Some ppl like the figures. Most don't. Either way I don't really care...lol. If they make ya happy than that's more than good enough for me.

FWIW, I dont' hate ALL Poser figures. One of my all time favorites was Miki 1. If she didn't have such miserable rigging, I'd still be using her and one of these days, when I learn how to weight map, I WILL be weight mapping her so that I can use her once again ;). The same goes for James, Koji, and Kelvin who are also decent figures if it wasn't for their rigging. Was never much of a fan of Jesse, but Sydney was pretty nice :).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - ...Oh well. I guess I'm the only one.

No, you aren't LOL.

I didn't like the Poser 8 figures (Ryan, Alyson, etc) since the day I loaded one. Like moriador, I can see all sorts of things wrong with them and therefore, unless it's Tyler and/or Ana (thank you Blackhearted), I'll never ever use them. Yeah,  it's a matter of personal taste. Some ppl like the figures. Most don't. Either way I don't really care...lol. If they make ya happy than that's more than good enough for me.

FWIW, I dont' hate ALL Poser figures. One of my all time favorites was Miki 1. If she didn't have such miserable rigging, I'd still be using her and one of these days, when I learn how to weight map, I WILL be weight mapping her so that I can use her once again ;). The same goes for James, Koji, and Kelvin who are also decent figures if it wasn't for their rigging. Was never much of a fan of Jesse, but Sydney was pretty nice :).

Laurie

And thus my earlier point, about Poser not supporting it's figures. SM should weightmap them and make then available via Content Paradise. Well, maybe not Miki 1, but the G2's at least.

If they weight mapped Miki1, I'd surely be willing to throw them a few more bucks. Same goes for Sydney and the G2 males. Miki 1 especially had the most realistic and expressive faces I've ever seen - the only one since that comes close is Mankahoo's Angela. The one thing that bothered me about Miki 1 was the fact that she was asian only. Of course, there's plenty more white people to be had...lol...unfortunately, not many African. I am sorta sick to death of caucasian figures to be honest ;).

Laurie

Attached Link: http://www.toxel.com/inspiration/2010/02/26/14-fictional-characters-in-real-life/

Nope, you're not.

http://www.toxel.com/inspiration/2010/02/26/14-fictional-characters-in-real-life/

BTW, I constantly use the term PHOTOREALISTIC only because both DAZ and SM already hijacked the term "realistic" for their advertising, so for the majority, the existing figures are "realistic style" as opposed to Aiko, Terai Yuki or The Girl which are "toon/manga style".

But actually both the DAZ and SM figures are a wild mix of deliberate toon-style to "sex them up" and anatomical/technical errors.

Quote - If they weight mapped Miki1, I'd surely be willing to throw them a few more bucks. Same goes for Sydney and the G2 males. Miki 1 especially had the most realistic and expressive faces I've ever seen - the only one since that comes close is Mankahoo's Angela. The one thing that bothered me about Miki 1 was the fact that she was asian only. Of course, there's plenty more white people to be had...lol...unfortunately, not many African. I am sorta sick to death of caucasian figures to be honest ;).

Laurie

Racist.

Quote - > Quote - If they weight mapped Miki1, I'd surely be willing to throw them a few more bucks. Same goes for Sydney and the G2 males. Miki 1 especially had the most realistic and expressive faces I've ever seen - the only one since that comes close is Mankahoo's Angela. The one thing that bothered me about Miki 1 was the fact that she was asian only. Of course, there's plenty more white people to be had...lol...unfortunately, not many African. I am sorta sick to death of caucasian figures to be honest ;).

Laurie

Racist.

Bwaaaahahaha...troublemaker :P

If I wanna see more white ppl I can just look in the mirror (yep, sick of my own reflection too. LOL). But I have yet to see a really good african or hispanic figure. For as much as it bothered me that Miki1 didn't do other races, the figures that are a dedicated race are the best looking examples of that race ;). The morphs never seem to quite make it ;). Plus, putting african features for example on a base caucasian figure look, well...wrong. LOL. There aren't huge differences, but there are differences. The one that comes to mind is the rear (not that I stand around looking at people's rear ends. LOL).

Laurie

Looking forward to someone re-rigging Miki-1 !

She was the only DAZ/Poser figure with a truly photorealistic shape out of the box. Her mesh topology was a bit dense for my low end machine back then, so I rather built my own Aneta/Miki from my DAZ hybrids.

But with proper rigging, she'll be a lovely figure.

BTW, Sydney and MIKI are the exact same mesh. Sydney is basically a "caucasian" version of MIKI with a more V3-like shape.

Sadly, to me she lost most of the qualities that made Miki, well, MIKI, but she's still better out of the box than Jessi-I. (Who actually is not that hard to rework into something more believeable.)

And James-I and Koji-I are definitely the best Poser males ever made.

Sorry, no love for the "reworked" G2 versions or the other G2 figures here.

Especially Simon looked just plain creepy to me.  :-(

Actually, I thought both Sydney and Simon had rather dubious looks on their faces.

Quote - 2) Like it or lump it, some folks want realistic, and view CG through that lens. BFD.

As long as that is the standard they judge their OWN work on, and NOT anyone else.  Period. 

The "Purists" on anything have no idea of the damage they do, nor would they care if they did.  It's okay to pursue it on your own, but to constantly push it to other people, well , the door I came in opens to let me out too.  And not many will say anything, those are the ones that seldom post, but ask "What in hell am I doing this for if this is how it's going to be met?" 

OH, yeah. The learning curve for the cloth room, the basics, is maybe fifteen minutes long.  But, I don't do animations, so frame 30 of the sim is the only one I'm looking at.  I can put a seated figure in a long dress in a chair, with the cloth between her legs and the seat of the chair a lot faster than I can with conforming and the dynamic gives ten times better results.  Sorry if you find that daunting.  I doubt the average user will find it even difficult.  Going deeper in, yes, that may take time, but once they've tried it, it won't slow them down from going deeper in.  I use mostly long skirts, therefore, dynamic is the only game in town.  Morphs in the figure?  NO problem, run the sim, presto, it fits.  It ain't any big problem and doesn't take long to either learn or do.  I'll change conforming to dynamic for just that reason, no problem.

Doric. 

Quote -> Quote - 2) Like it or lump it, some folks want realistic, and view CG through that lens. BFD.

As long as that is the standard they judge their OWN work on, and NOT anyone else.  Period.

Sorry, but you don't get to dictate what people think, or how they critique. If it's any comfort or consolation, neither do I.

Quote - The "Purists" on anything have no idea of the damage they do, nor would they care if they did. 

Same story with {insert group of artistic types here}. Shit, man - CGSociety has been around for how long now, and you still haven't figured this all out yet? 

I think the only group of folks who don't bitch and moan about something not suiting their tastes is Faeriewylde, and that's mostly because it's founded on nothing more (or less) than innocent fun involving images of fairy-tale (geddit?) critters. Call it a spot of child-like shelter from a world that's gone all too adultish.

But yeah, outside of that site or one like it? Well, you either deal with the results, or go found your own website. Doubly so if you're insisting that Poser get used by the professional crowd. Those boys (and girls) can be outright motherfu- well, you get the idea. Not because they're born that bitchy, but rather because they got paychecks (as in, cash money) riding on their individual skill and reputation.

Quote - > Quote -> Quote - 2) Like it or lump it, some folks want realistic, and view CG through that lens. BFD.

As long as that is the standard they judge their OWN work on, and NOT anyone else.  Period.

Sorry, but you don't get to dictate what people think, or how they critique. If it's any comfort or consolation, neither do I.

A "photorealist" has about zero knowledge of what I'm doing, and is unaware that his ideas will NOT work.  He doesn't care. 

Quote -> Quote - The "Purists" on anything have no idea of the damage they do, nor would they care if they did. 

Same story with {insert group of artistic types here}. Shit, man - CGSociety has been around for how long now, and you still haven't figured this all out yet?

Never visited the site, probably never will. If the site is all consumed with photorealism, then that's where the conversation concerning it belongs.  Not in a place where there are hobbyists that are probably having just as much fun and getting just as much satisfaction out of it as the one spending days on getting a "photorealistic" look on the figure.  I know what I want in a render, if someone else thinks they know what I want more than I do, the quarter to call the chaplain is still on the table and he probably doesn't give a shit either.  Just don't tell me my idea would be better done in your style.  Bulls leave enough of that behind them, when it gets too deep here, I bow out and do something else.

But it don't have to be brought out every damned time someone mentions any figure.  That just gets sickening.  Trekkie asked if it was a nice face, I thought it was a nice face.  All the "realism" talk is just bullpucky. 

Doric.

Well, Trekkie also mentioned she didn't think the native Poser figures were ugly. I guess some of us just begged to differ ;).

One must be careful what one says or asks on an open forum, lest ye get an answer. LOL

Laurie

"But it don't have to be brought out every damned time someone mentions any figure. "

More poly(p)tychs than DC :-)   

Quote - Well, Trekkie also mentioned she didn't think the native Poser figures were ugly. I guess some of us just begged to differ ;).

One must be careful what one says or asks on an open forum, lest ye get an answer. LOL

Laurie

And I'm really pleased she did! I'd always assumed the native Poser figures were ugly, because that's what everyone always says - (and oh yes! I agree about default Alyson2). But without this thread I'd never have bothered to look at them any further and I'm really liking the SM variations on Alyson 2. These are going to be very useful to me.

Quote -
Looking forward to someone re-rigging Miki-1 !

She was the only DAZ/Poser figure with a truly photorealistic shape out of the box. Her mesh topology was a bit dense for my low end machine back then, so I rather built my own Aneta/Miki from my DAZ hybrids.

I recall that Miki 1 has 50,000 poly eyeballs... :biggrin:

PS I was in the woods for a week, so I'm catching up.