Hey Teyon,

Just wondering  The only version of Poser I know of that had a 2nd generation of figures was Poser 7. Will there be a 2nd generation of Rex and Roxie or a whole new figure?

The G2 figures that came with Poser 7, Syd and Simon, were new.  G2 Jessi, James and Koji were seperate products...

If I recall correctly, the original G2 figures were reworkings of the Poser 6 people of the same names except for Koji, Kelvin and Olivia and were sold through Content Paradise.  Now granted, Simon and Sydney did come with Poser 7, but only the faces had changed at that point. Also Ben2 and Kate2, which aren't generally considered to be G2 figures, but are, are also included in P7. 

The G2 female body (and Sydney's head) appear to be a reworking of Miki 1, based on the meshes.

NDA's are a wonderful thing. I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other but let me turn the question around on you:

What, if anything, would you want to see in an update of the figures were a second generation done? 

Well I don't have PP2014 so Roxie might already fill this.....

...but I've fallen in love with Miki4 recently, but I'm not crazy about her more European morph - it seems to do weird things with her eyes and make her a bit squinty. I'd love a Northern European version of Miki4. That would be gorgeous :)

Quote - The G2 female body (and Sydney's head) appear to be a reworking of Miki 1, based on the meshes.

Syd's head is the same mesh as Miki 2's head, albeit with a different vertex order...

Quote - NDA's are a wonderful thing. I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other but let me turn the question around on you:

 

What, if anything, would you want to see in an update of the figures were a second generation done? 

;) JD I prefere a higher dense mesh, not just subdivided for render. Better JCMs and.... may I say it here? ... a more accurate modelled crotch. ^^ For a default fictionary Roxie II,  I'll sent you my Sexy_Roxy FBM. However I like Roxie. She is maybe the best native Poser figure ever, shortly followed by Sydney. All the best :-)

Considering Sydney has the same body as Jessie and Olivia, why is she better?

Sydney, better than Olivia and Jessi ? Well it was about native Poser figures. Olivia and Jessie G2 are not native. Jessie has aG2 body, but her head is different. Don't like Jessie G2's head. Her Headmorphs are weird. Roxie better than SYdney? She is weightmapped.

Quote - Considering Sydney has the same body as Jessie and Olivia, why is she better?

Olivia came long after Syd and G2 Jessi, but they do indeed share a body...

Actually, even though she's seems to be the G2 female I use in all my freebie renders, I never really cared that much for Sydney. She looks like she had a perpetual scowl on her face.

As for what I'd like to see in a Gen 2 version of Rex and Roxie, i can't actually speak intelligently to that because I don't have the figures. I don't have PP2014 yet. Wish i did, I'd love to do some freebies for them.

Quote - > Quote - NDA's are a wonderful thing. I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other but let me turn the question around on you:

 

What, if anything, would you want to see in an update of the figures were a second generation done? 

;) JD I prefere a higher dense mesh, not just subdivided for render. Better JCMs and.... may I say it here? ... a more accurate modelled crotch. ^^ For a default fictionary Roxie II,  I'll sent you my Sexy_Roxy FBM. However I like Roxie. She is maybe the best native Poser figure ever, shortly followed by Sydney. All the best :-)

YES! Seems like everything's headed for lower poly at the moment. More polys. More polys. Ta. :)

Quote - Actually, even though she's seems to be the G2 female I use in all my freebie renders, I never really cared that much for Sydney. She looks like she had a perpetual scowl on her face.

Woman figures should scowl at the user, it is more realistic.

btw Sydney is great

I would like to see Sydney's mesh reworked to get it symetrical. I am to understand she isn't; although I never really looked that hard at her mesh. Extreme bending is an issue with her that'll probably not change if she can't be weightmapped.

She was the first figure I worked with, when I got into this game with Poser 8, and while Miki 4 has taken her place for me, I still like the look of her, and I don't feel her face is in a perpetual scowl.

Edit: If and when I get Poser Pro 2014, I will attempt to weightmap her. But I have a feeling I will probably get fixated on Roxie and forget all about Sydney...

I get enough scowls from real women. I don't need the virtual ones joining in.

Quote - NDA's are a wonderful thing. I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other but let me turn the question around on you:

 

What, if anything, would you want to see in an update of the figures were a second generation done? 

I would like updated figures that take full advantage of the newer features that have been added to Poser since the release of Poser 7. 

Default the skinning method to unimesh - when the subdivision is set to 1, a lot of little things go away.  That also applies to the P6 figures.  As far as the G2F mesh.....

First off, adjust the length of the arms - they are too short.  Load Sydney and place her arms at her sides.  The heel of the hand should be parallel with the hip socket and the tip of her middle finger should be at the center of the thigh.  The current workaround is to lengthen the X-scale on the shoulder & forearm to 105%.

Moving on to the collars.  Turn Sydney around with her arms at her sides.  Notice how the mesh distorts around the shoulder blade - fixing that would be nice, because if I use limits, I can't actually put Sydney's arms by her sides.  Smoothing the armpit out and lowering it just a bit would help also - subdivision to 1 doesn't quite do it.

And speaking of arms, take a look at the elbow when it bends.  Something doesn't look quite right.  Although subdivision 1 seems to take care of it.  Subdivision 1 can fix a lot of little issues.

There is an issue with the breasts - they are not symetrical, because of this, Posermatic wasn't able to make his NGM series of breast morphs for Sydney.  I don't know how you would go about fixing this, because as I understand it, making the mesh symetrical would break every character and morph set available. 

I have a lot of great characters and morph sets for the G2 figures & I don't want to give them up.

To everyone reading this, if you use Sydney or Jessi at all:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=68126

Best $5 you will ever spend at 'Rosity.

With the males, you could start by fixing the eye shapes - this also applies to P6 James and Ryan as well.  PikKlad over on sharecg has made morph corrections for P6 James, Simon & Ryan - find out what it would take for him to finish with G2 James, Kelvin, Koji, and P6 Koji. 

http://www.sharecg.com/pf/full_uploads.php?pf_user_name=pitnix

And since i brought up P6 James and Koji, something weird happens when I take him to subdivision 1 (look at him in wireframe view) - if you could tell me how to fix those 5 polys, I'd appreciate it. They are great figures when you take them to subdivision 1.

While that's great and good info if we ever decide to revamp the older characters, I think we were talking doing a generation 2 of Rex and Roxie. I could be misunderstanding though, I do that a lot these days.  

The older figures aren't designed to work with the subD in the latest Poser, so you're likely to run into issues. I am not in a position to look at what errors you're seeing on my end though so I'm going to guess the problem is spiking. This can happen due to poor welds, bad topology (like N-Gons), or in rare cases even extreme proximity between vertices.  Without looking at the mesh or even a screen shot, I can't tell you which it is but I'd start looking in the area and trying to see if any of that is going on.

Teyon , my point about the next generation was only meant that each new version of Poser should have the next Generation of the previousversions native figures. In other words, Rex and Roxie SHOULD be Alyson3 and Ryan3. That's all.

Quote - While that's great and good info if we ever decide to revamp the older characters, I think we were talking doing a generation 2 of Rex and Roxie. I could be misunderstanding though, I do that a lot these days.  

If you don't have these 2 items, then you will be wasting your time.

1.  **Morph Packs **- It is great that people who are great with Z-Brush are able to go and make their own custom characters - however, that isn't your user base.  Most of us are dial-spinners.  Rex & Roxie are still lacking in this department, which is why they aren't going anywhere.  (Well technically, Roxie does have a morph pack, over on that "other" site, but most people aren't going to go and grab Roxie Plus.)

They need to have morph packs from the get go, like Alyson & Ryan.  Or with 3rd party morph sets available on launch date, like Simon & Sydney. Either way is acceptable, but you must have them on launch day.

Recommendations - Colm made the great Ultimate Head & Body morphs for a number of Poser characters.  Jasmina made a simply incredible set of morphs for G2 Sydney & Jessi, as did Dimension 3D.  3d-ghdesign made a great set of morphs & expressions for Michelle.  Afroditeohki made a great set of morphs for Antonia.  DieTrying over on ShareCG made a great set of morphs and expressions for Antonia, V4, Genesis, and Laura.

Get at least one of these folks on board, preferably all of them - If you have to give them a copy of Poser 2014, do it.

One other recommendation - tell the f*&^%&% vendors do give their morph & expression packs descriptive names, not "cute" ones.  I just discovered a really nice set of expressions for Michelle that I didn't know about because the name was "cute" as opposed to descriptive.

2.  Vendor buy-in.  Rex & Roxie stumbled out of the gate because you didn't have vendor content ready to go on day 1.  I would recommend coordinating with a dozen or so vendors so that they have a product or 3 ready to go on launch.

Character Recommendations: 

http://www.rendercandy.com/index.php

Get RecieCup on board so that our little community can look a little less racist.  The lack of ethnic characters for any Poser or DS mesh is downright creepy.

The problem with third party morphs is that there is no standard. A muscular morph from Dimension 3D is not the same as a muscular morph from Colm. So how do I, as a vendor, or content creator compensate for that if the clothes I create will fit one morph set but not another?

And while SSGBryan didn't mention it, can we do away with the scientific names for some of these muscle morphs? I need a freaking medical degree to find what it is I want to morph.

Quote - And while SSGBryan didn't mention it, can we do away with the scientific names for some of these muscle morphs? I need a freaking medical degree to find what it is I want to morph.

I'll second this request. Or atleast include a comprensive anatomy diagram labeling all these morphs.I don't know about others but I'm a preschool teacher. "Head and shoulders, knee and toes" is about the extent of anatomy I had to learn in college.

Quote - The problem with third party morphs is that there is no standard. A muscular morph from Dimension 3D is not the same as a muscular morph from Colm. So how do I, as a vendor, or content creator compensate for that if the clothes I create will fit one morph set but not another?

And while SSGBryan didn't mention it, can we do away with the scientific names for some of these muscle morphs? I need a freaking medical degree to find what it is I want to morph.

We are talking about figures that come with Poser.  This means we don't have to worry about the Poser users that are still working under a Poser 4 paradigm. If you are developing for figures that are native to Poser 10/2014 or later, you don't have to put figure morphs into clothing anymore. 

Load your figure - load the morphs that you want to use - after you have spun the dials to your hearts content, save as full-body morph via WW. Use that Copy Morphs From command in the figure drop down menu.  The character FBM is now in the clothing.

Why make a clothing item with 250Mg of morphs when you don't have to - not to mention the fact that regardless of the morphs you put in, you probably won't have the morphs I am using?

At some point, we have to let the go of doing things the Poser 4 way. 

In 2013, I should not be dealing with .rsr files.  I shouldn't have readme's telling me I need to go to www.softrabbit.de for a conversion utility that became useless with the release of Poser 5 and OSX a decade ago.  Materials belong in the materials folder, not the pose folder.  There_is_no_reason_to_use_underscores_in_place_of_spaces.  Namesshouldnotbemissingspaces. 

Perhaps something like this?

Transmapped eyelashes...please!

Quote - NDA's are a wonderful thing. I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other but let me turn the question around on you:

 

What, if anything, would you want to see in an update of the figures were a second generation done? 

more pre made morphs for roxie and rex  please :D

Quote - > Quote - The problem with third party morphs is that there is no standard. A muscular morph from Dimension 3D is not the same as a muscular morph from Colm. So how do I, as a vendor, or content creator compensate for that if the clothes I create will fit one morph set but not another?

And while SSGBryan didn't mention it, can we do away with the scientific names for some of these muscle morphs? I need a freaking medical degree to find what it is I want to morph.

We are talking about figures that come with Poser.  This means we don't have to worry about the Poser users that are still working under a Poser 4 paradigm. If you are developing for figures that are native to Poser 10/2014 or later, you don't have to put figure morphs into clothing anymore. 

Load your figure - load the morphs that you want to use - after you have spun the dials to your hearts content, save as full-body morph via WW. Use that Copy Morphs From command in the figure drop down menu.  The character FBM is now in the clothing.

Why make a clothing item with 250Mg of morphs when you don't have to - not to mention the fact that regardless of the morphs you put in, you probably won't have the morphs I am using?

At some point, we have to let the go of doing things the Poser 4 way. 

Yes, but that's ONLY if you have Poser2014. If you're using an older figure or older software, you don't have that option. I would love to support Rex and Roxie but I don't have P2014 yet, so not an option.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - The problem with third party morphs is that there is no standard. A muscular morph from Dimension 3D is not the same as a muscular morph from Colm. So how do I, as a vendor, or content creator compensate for that if the clothes I create will fit one morph set but not another?

And while SSGBryan didn't mention it, can we do away with the scientific names for some of these muscle morphs? I need a freaking medical degree to find what it is I want to morph.

We are talking about figures that come with Poser.  This means we don't have to worry about the Poser users that are still working under a Poser 4 paradigm. If you are developing for figures that are native to Poser 10/2014 or later, you don't have to put figure morphs into clothing anymore. 

Load your figure - load the morphs that you want to use - after you have spun the dials to your hearts content, save as full-body morph via WW. Use that Copy Morphs From command in the figure drop down menu.  The character FBM is now in the clothing.

Why make a clothing item with 250Mg of morphs when you don't have to - not to mention the fact that regardless of the morphs you put in, you probably won't have the morphs I am using?

At some point, we have to let the go of doing things the Poser 4 way. 

Yes, but that's ONLY if you have Poser2014. If you're using an older figure or older software, you don't have that option. I would love to support Rex and Roxie but I don't have P2014 yet, so not an option.

But we aren't talking about an older figure or older software - we are talking about a 2nd gen Rex & Roxie, which will pretty much require Poser 10/2014 or later, which means we can let the Poser 4 way of doing business go the way of the dinosaur.

Quote - > Quote - While that's great and good info if we ever decide to revamp the older characters, I think we were talking doing a generation 2 of Rex and Roxie. I could be misunderstanding though, I do that a lot these days.  

If you don't have these 2 items, then you will be wasting your time.

1.  **Morph Packs **- It is great that people who are great with Z-Brush are able to go and make their own custom characters - however, that isn't your user base.  Most of us are dial-spinners.  Rex & Roxie are still lacking in this department, which is why they aren't going anywhere.  (Well technically, Roxie does have a morph pack, over on that "other" site, but most people aren't going to go and grab Roxie Plus.)

They need to have morph packs from the get go, like Alyson & Ryan.  Or with 3rd party morph sets available on launch date, like Simon & Sydney. Either way is acceptable, but you must have them on launch day.

Recommendations - Colm made the great Ultimate Head & Body morphs for a number of Poser characters.  Jasmina made a simply incredible set of morphs for G2 Sydney & Jessi, as did Dimension 3D.  3d-ghdesign made a great set of morphs & expressions for Michelle.  Afroditeohki made a great set of morphs for Antonia.  DieTrying over on ShareCG made a great set of morphs and expressions for Antonia, V4, Genesis, and Laura.

Get at least one of these folks on board, preferably all of them - If you have to give them a copy of Poser 2014, do it.

One other recommendation - tell the f*&^%&% vendors do give their morph & expression packs descriptive names, not "cute" ones.  I just discovered a really nice set of expressions for Michelle that I didn't know about because the name was "cute" as opposed to descriptive.

2.  Vendor buy-in.  Rex & Roxie stumbled out of the gate because you didn't have vendor content ready to go on day 1.  I would recommend coordinating with a dozen or so vendors so that they have a product or 3 ready to go on launch.

Character Recommendations: 

http://www.rendercandy.com/index.php

Get RecieCup on board so that our little community can look a little less racist.  The lack of ethnic characters for any Poser or DS mesh is downright creepy.

I'd have to agree for the most part. Having that stuff alongside the launch is a must.

Quote -
 

I'd have to agree for the most part. Having that stuff alongside the launch is a must.

So why do we think that never seems to happen?  Is there a reluctance from SM to reach out and get people on board early, like pre-launch early?  Or is there a lack of willingness on the vendor side of things, and if so does that come from a place of 'well SM is a big company if they want me to make stuff for them I need to get paid up front' 

or does it have to do with the development cycle? Sometimes it seems like the content side of things has been rushed through at the last minut, or pushed out before its 100% ready for prime time.  Maybe the cycle could be more phased, wher there is a large content 'update' that trails the poser version release by a month or more.  Going this route would allow some more time to get things right but the content release would -really- have to be worth the wait for the customers to swallow it

The issue of content and program matching has been up a few times before.

I recall a hint for the Poser team someone made: Separate the program updates from the content updates. Bring a program update with new functionality every other year as it is now, and then halfway between issue new content characters making full and stunning use of the facilities the other year. This would permit the content developers and the community to get used to the new functions and for their work take advantage of the a stable platform after the inevitable service releases. For the Poser program the content release would mean a good occasion for a mid-term rally.

I think it's just hard to get SM into that mindset. They are first and foremost, a software company. Content seems to be secondary in their mind. Almost an after thought.

One does not need more polygons.
Rex and Roxie are magnificent in the poly department. They morph extremely well.
It is what you do with the polygons what is important.

Their problems are mainly rigging.

Here is where I am now with a modified object file and rigging updates. 

Maybe the cycle could be more phased, wher there is a large content 'update' that trails the poser version release by a month or more. Going this route would allow some more time to get things right but the content release would -really- have to be worth the wait for the customers to swallow it

I’ve generally agreed with the ‘need it on Day 1’ idea but this is an interesting point. To what degree does user impatience doom some figures? A month is hardly a lifetime, especially if the end result would be better quality content. A lot of people may not even have the figure installed and become really familiar with it in a month. Of course you still need commitments from content creators, preferably even some previews of what’s coming up. I think realistically, in order to break the vicious chicken and egg cycle and cut down on some of the figure infant mortality, people need to be a little more patient. I seem to recall a time when just having a new figure was exciting enough, even if she didn’t even have a pair of bloomers. Kids today are spoiled – and yeah, get off my freaking lawn."

* *

Attached Link: http://irit.fr/~Rodolphe.Vaillant/?e=31

So how does Roxie compare to Miki4? I'd still love to have a proper N. European morph for Miki4, or failing that, a N. European version of the figure.

Ssgbryan, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

One thing I've noticed is the poser people that came with alot of content seem to be the ones that were liked and used and seem to be still to some extent. The ones that came with one or 2 things fell by the wayside fast.  Posette and Judy are still liked. They came with  runtime full.  Sydney and beyond came with one or 2 things and fast faded into the background. Many people say they'd use them more but there's too little content. The only exception is Jessi. She came with a bunch of stuff but usn't used much.

Actually, I used Olivia more than I did G2Jessi or Miki 2 for that matter. I'm really liking Miki 4 though. She kinda reminds me of actress Grace Park, and I know a LOT of girls that look like Olivia. Guess i just love me those ethnic girls.

Roxie is loRes. I allways had problems with Roxie's mouth-edges. They are folded in a weird way. When it comes to remorphing them , you'll have to be carefull not to mess everything up. Roxie's privat parts are not that acurate as Miki's are.                             Unlike lot's of other users , I do like Roxie's eyelash solution having a conforming lash figure instad of transmapped lashes. Miki4 has both. Mapped and modelled. Roxie has just the modelled lashes.

Quote - Roxie is loRes. I allways had problems with Roxie's mouth-edges. They are folded in a weird way. When it comes to remorphing them , you'll have to be carefull not to mess everything up. Roxie's privat parts are not that acurate as Miki's are.                             Unlike lot's of other users , I do like Roxie's eyelash solution having a conforming lash figure instad of transmapped lashes. Miki4 has both. Mapped and modelled. Roxie has just the modelled lashes.

Oh. So Roxie sounds like a bit of a non-starter for me then - if I had PP2014 anyway.

Pity that SM seems to be heading for low-res figures. No good for me for rendering at large sizes in Vue.

LoRes compared to Miki4 at least. They rely on the SubD technologie introduced in P10/PP2014. I love PP2014, you can't go wrong with it. Best Poser ever. IMO ;)

Yeah, that's the trouble. Fine if you're rendering in Poser. Not so good if you export the figures to render in something else. It does limit their usefulness.

... to lux or octane. ;) Yes, sigh. That brings me to my next Poser request: a "bake everything" comande for mesh, animation, morphs ect...

Quote - Ssgbryan, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

 

One thing I've noticed is the poser people that came with alot of content seem to be the ones that were liked and used and seem to be still to some extent. The ones that came with one or 2 things fell by the wayside fast.  Posette and Judy are still liked. They came with  runtime full.  Sydney and beyond came with one or 2 things and fast faded into the background. Many people say they'd use them more but there's too little content. The only exception is Jessi. She came with a bunch of stuff but usn't used much.

Well, I  wouldn't say that Sydney didn't come with to much, I have 3Gb of zips & I am still collecting stuff for her.  Of course, I am not buying it here.

Then again, this issue was why I got Wardrobe Wizard almost as soon as it came out.  I've been converting content for other figures for years now.

The issue boils down to the fact that most Poser users are aggressively uninterested in anything that requires them to do more than "Load, Conform, Make Art".

It is what it is.

Quote - > Quote - Roxie is loRes. I allways had problems with Roxie's mouth-edges. They are folded in a weird way. When it comes to remorphing them , you'll have to be carefull not to mess everything up. Roxie's privat parts are not that acurate as Miki's are.                             Unlike lot's of other users , I do like Roxie's eyelash solution having a conforming lash figure instad of transmapped lashes. Miki4 has both. Mapped and modelled. Roxie has just the modelled lashes.

Oh. So Roxie sounds like a bit of a non-starter for me then - if I had PP2014 anyway.

Pity that SM seems to be heading for low-res figures. No good for me for rendering at large sizes in Vue.

I think that's a result of Poser listening to it's user base. A lot of people really wanted Poser to be able to take advantage of subdivision. Well, to do that you want a figure that's lo res since a highres figure would make the subdivision pointless.

Not to get into this too deeply but this was sculpted from a diagram of a vagina. What did I get wrong exactly or did Darrell miss retopoing something? Or are you turning on both the Genital Open morph AND the Genital on morph (if so you should do one or the other not both)?  I'm asking for my education to make future models more accurate.

would want natural bending elbows.

specs for a figure meant to be posed nude vs to be posed clothed are 2 different criterias.

would like body handles for breast movement. and some flab movement?

predefined hair group zones on the figure, eyebrows, eyelashes, mustashio.

uvswapping built-in capability!!!!

Regarding gens. As I recall the Mikis (1-2 anyway) had at least a quarter pound. This gives a reassuringly mature look.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Roxie is loRes. I allways had problems with Roxie's mouth-edges. They are folded in a weird way. When it comes to remorphing them , you'll have to be carefull not to mess everything up. Roxie's privat parts are not that acurate as Miki's are.                             Unlike lot's of other users , I do like Roxie's eyelash solution having a conforming lash figure instad of transmapped lashes. Miki4 has both. Mapped and modelled. Roxie has just the modelled lashes.

Oh. So Roxie sounds like a bit of a non-starter for me then - if I had PP2014 anyway.

Pity that SM seems to be heading for low-res figures. No good for me for rendering at large sizes in Vue.

I think that's a result of Poser listening to it's user base. A lot of people really wanted Poser to be able to take advantage of subdivision. Well, to do that you want a figure that's lo res since a highres figure would make the subdivision pointless.

It ties the figure to rendering in Poser and makes it far less useful for anything else. Pity.

You try Snarlygribbly's sub-d script on the figures you want to export to Vue, that may work.

Quote: "Not to get into this too deeply but this was sculpted from a diagram of a vagina. What did I get wrong exactly or did Darrell miss retopoing something? Or are you turning on both the Genital Open morph AND the Genital on morph (if so you should do one or the other not both)?  I'm asking for my education to make future models more accurate."--------- How to answer , "without geting into it deeply" ? ;-)