Boni

no bOObs, no lOOks!!  put in bOObs, get lOOks!

Cool Render.
What are you thanking MrSparky for ?

Boni - thats really sweet of you thanks! BTW - how is Magic doing ? David - kinda sad if thats really the only ways to get views. Especially as poser can do so much more than that. RorrKonn - Boni's trying to raise some funds for her dog Magic.

Quote - David - kinda sad if thats really the only ways to get views. Especially as poser can do so much more than that.

  Sex is THE most powerful driving force of human nature, in all the history of Mankind!  Do YOU really want to go back and rewrite the whole of human nature, and the base genetic need to procreate?  You want your art to be more looked at, it NEEDS to be more human!!!  It NEEDS some compelling feature that forces people to look at it!!! Mona Lisa has a smile, David has that lean and dynamic torso, The Birth of Venus has that hair and body, but what does yours have? -a bunch of cold and disinterested figures, standing around, doing nothing noteworthy!

And THAT'S the bald headed truth!!!

Good point David.  And yes my image is very static. Sex is a driving force in life and advertising ... but it's not everything.  At Rendo it is dominent.  I realize that now more than ever.  Particularly for this image, you are right on.

For arguments sake alone consider this: You see a painting of an amazing stalion ... there may be sexual undertones in the theme ... but you don't have to see the horse's genetals to get the message across.  Watch the Hobbit?  what was the sexual drive there?  Or Star Trek (granted the female uniforms are revealing and impractical but that was true from the origins of TOS ... Gene Roddenberry even said (to me actually durring a Q&A) that the costume designer was a sex-maniac.) But there were no overly large protruding exposed breasts in that movie or the series either.  YES, sex sells, but it doesn't have to be extreme.  (this rant comes from a discussion on FB more than your comment here.)  By the way David.  I do respect your work and your oppinion.  I just had to get that out. :)

mrsparky: Magic is slower, older and we are keeping her comfortable.  Her heart has developed a condition where only half is actually beating and blood is pooling inside. She pants to get the blood where it's suppose to go.  She will probably have a heart attack in the near future and we will lose her ... but now we know how to keep her comfortable and out of pain until then.  :( Such is the cycle of life.

Best to all of you

Boni

An image doesn't have to be blatant to be sexual!  The play of a stallions while in full gallop is sexual, as one interpolates those same muscles in play in copulation.  Mona Lisa's smile is sexual in its very enigmaticness.  And I think that Michaelangelo's David speaks for itself.  If your figures had been doing something, such as trying to decapitate each other with Laser Swords, that too would have been sexual, as sex, birth, & death are all entertwined!

Here's an example of what I'm trying to say:

Quote - Battle of Naked Men, 1465
Antonio Pollaiuolo (Italian, Florentine, 1431/32–1498)
Engraving15 1/8 x 23 3/16 in. (38.4 x 58.9 cm)
Purchase, Joseph Pulitzer Bequest, 1917 (17.50.99)

Not on view   Last Updated August 9, 2013

This exceptional work, one of the earliest and most influential Italian engravings, is anomalous in many respects. It is the largest engraving of its time, and the only one signed by the Florentine artist Antonio Pollaiuolo (1431/32–1498). The Museum's impression, like other extant examples, shows the wear that resulted from long handling, examination, and appreciation.

The subject of the work has never been completely explained. Some scholars have argued that the print was meant to illustrate a mythological episode, while others have viewed it as a pattern piece, intended to demonstrate a range of poses and viewpoints for the benefit of other artists. According to yet another interpretation, the ten nude figures locked in combat may be gladiators fighting in funeral games, and the print itself may have commemorated the death of a prominent Florentine.

Pollaiuolo's apparent interest is to describe the human body in a state of urgent action, in varied poses, and from many perspectives. The figures' muscles are flexed and exaggerated beyond naturalism but nevertheless demonstrate the artist's keen understanding of anatomy. The careful pairing of fighters in complementary poses injects the violent battle with a dancelike order.

Great piece ... I see it as a figure study (as I've done similar pieces when in college ... I have a BA in fine art myself).  But yes, I totally see your point.  I tend to get totally involved with the characterization ... light,shadows, making sure the women don't look like intergalactic hookers so my nephews can view the images. ... and faces.  So ... yeah, I should hvae done somehting a lot more dynamic and will keep that in mind next time. :)

Here's a four part story I did in Poser 5 a few years back, with my remapped Poser 5, with my remapped PosetteV3 and DorkM3.  There is a small bit of nudity, but it is NOT the overwhelming feature of the renders.  What is, is the story dynamic, and the implied sexual tension between the two figures!

Not So Gentle Persuasion!

Not So Gentle Rebuttal!

Not So Gentle Epiphany

Not So Gentle Denunciation!

Here's a male figure I did, not nude, but very dynamic I believe: Tarzan Returns

This is one I did a few years ago.  While the figure is nude, there is nothing blatant about her nudity.  Note the dynamic screen behind, and the suggestiveness of the umbrella in the urn next to her!

posetteV3 with Panko's FREE V3 VietCong texture.
Chair Freebie (Don't remember whose)
Chinese Vase Freebie (Don't remember whose)
DAD's Umbrella
Flexible Screen (Don't remember whose)
Yamotosan's Linlin JP Correction Pose applaid for joint correction.

Rendered in Poser 5 with the three standard lights.
Moderately postworked in Photoshop.
To get the final effect, after doing photo touchup with the smudge, clone, burn, and blurring tool, I duplicated the layrer. I desaturated the top layer, and set opacity to 60%. To this layer I also applaid a light effect filter to slightly darken the scene and add to the mood.

Absolutely agree on all counts.  I missed your post on the four part "comic" I will go back and view that.  :)

By the way, totally agree.  My previous image is a dud.  I'm seeing more of what I can do based on our "discussion" here.  I'm rather enlightened.  Nudity isn't necessary ... but tension and dynamics are.

Well played on the 4 part image set.  I was a little anxious at the "rape" implication in the first image, but the other 3 redeemed it. :)

Quote - By the way, totally agree.  My previous image is a dud.  I'm seeing more of what I can do based on our "discussion" here.  I'm rather enlightened.  Nudity isn't necessary ... but tension and dynamics are.

You could easily add tension to your render, by putting a mutilated corpse on the floor, lying in a pool of blood!  Repose a couple of the figures, so that they are standing over the corpse with bloodied weapons in their hands.  -even lightsabers.

On the other hand, if you wish to make a formal portrait, (such as those of soldiers in the American Civil War), then you need for them to be posed standing up straight in a row, of two rows with the 1st row kneeling.  It would be static, but it would but there would be a reason for why it was static!  To add a bit of realism, have some of them scowl in a very malicious and threatening way!

Wonderful ideas.  But alas, I must start dinner, my honey will be home in a little while.  She did not get much sleep last night worrying about Magic so I will pamper her this evening.  More tomorrow.

Boni

I'm not against nudity either, having done life drawing, photography etc, also agree that sex can sell. For me it's a question of relevance, for example when to apply things such as tension or dynamics to showcase an idea. Plus not everything in life is about sex. Sometimes in an image a stick is just a stick, theres nothing sexually implied in it being there. So if theres nudity just for the sake of nudity, that's closer to pornography than art. Equally I'm not saying that all poser porn is automatically bad either. If the end intention is to create "gentlemens material" then fair play to whatever rocks the artists and viewers. Problem comes when poser porn is dressed up as art, it can give a false impression that some poser artists are little more than virtual perverts. Especially with younger 3d models, theres a risk of assuming the creator might have something like pedophillic tendancys. Or with stronger stuff like rape, it's even simpler, it says sicko. Which in turn can reflect on poser art and artists in general, not everyone renders or wants to render naked people. Poser is a more capable tool which can encompass a massive variety of genres, yet thats not always seen. So why be not straight, if the image is adult call it adult. Shove in a dedicated gallery or site and give viewers a choice of whether or not they want to see it. If a majority want that they'll look at it. Dress it up as art and it convinces no one.

Boni - give Magic a pamper from me!

Attached Link: Nude Draganized Dork

I was also praticing what was called The Draganized Effect, after a tutorial I came upon, on how to specially enhance portraits in Photoshop.  After using a Poser Square textured with a background photo, that I then warped to create more depth of field, I then posed my nude DorkM3 in a manner that I thought fitting to the scene.  While static, the simple act of pointing at something, while speaking an aside creates a certain dynamic tension (again, in my own humble & perhaps pretentious opinion).  The play or light on his muscles has its own effect to the overall composition.

mrsparky: You, sir, have read my mind.  I feel the same as you do all the way down the line.  Unless it's a figure study of some sort, I care little for nudes for the sake of nudes and it becomes a little uncomfortable for me. But if like David's piece showing the texturing muscularity of DorkM3 there is a purpose.  Some of my favorite pieces from my college days are life-drawing nudes.  Again there was a purpose.

David: Very well done ... The texturing is great and matching the colors in the photo is pretty cool too, allthough the shadowing doesn't seem to match up, but then it would most likely put DorkM3 in too much shadow if you had. 

mrsparky: side comment ... I gave Magic some hugs and said it was from you. :)

hugs to Magic.

BTW you don't need bOObs, you only have to check the nudity flag to attrackt visitors :)
Checking the other flags might help as well.

True ... I've been tempted, but ... well it is dishonest.  And I thought against the rules, misleading and all.  Thoughts on that?

Thank you on the support for Magic.

Boni

Quote - True ... I've been tempted, but ... well it is dishonest.  And I thought against the rules, misleading and all.  Thoughts on that? Boni

Well, the comments you'd get would probably NOT be sugar & spice & everthing nice!!!

Plus, you could count on AT LEAST one person reporting on your deliberate misrepresentation to the moderators; thus ensuring an official rebuke.  Get enough of those, and you can get banned for a greater or lesser length!

haha, just kidding, but is playing with peoples weak spots dishonest or just confronting?

I recall a recent image of a kid with a stuffed puppet, having the nudity flag set because the puppet was sort of undressed :)

Sort of what I thought.  For Renderosity, I might ... because of the nature of the site go more for the sensational.  I can't do gore ... but semi-nude, and suggestiveness I can go there.  I've actually put nudes up ... and felt a little squirmy about it.  But, creating a nude appropriate piece ... I'll work on that.  :)

aRtBee:  Went to your site, promising, but it looks a bit daunting ... are you going to ask the Poser and Vue community to donate articles for your missing manual section? (not that you couldn't do the work, but to take a little of the load off.) Also, I really like your work, very nice.

!!Naughty Farra Up Skirt No Panties!! (Warning: NUDITY!)

Thank you Boni for your comments on two of my renders, especially on the one with the link here.  Wile both the nudity and the sexuality are a bit blatant, I think that you'll admit that they are an integral part of the composition, and that without them, it wouldn't work!  However, the overall theme is comedy, not pornography!  (I've tried my hand at porn, but somehow it just doesn't work for me like it does for some! -maybe it's because I like women, rather than hate them!)

Anyway, thank you for your kind word!

I must say, this thread and those like it is why I stay at Rendo. I like a "thinking" thread. A real discussion.  Not a pularity contest or a gripe thread about the newest features in a model or latest upgrade to software.  THat all seems trivial and usually ahead of the game as things are ironed out with whatever issues exist.  (although sometimes I do lurk to see what the fuss is about).

This was the first forum I ever joined, back when it was the PFO (second actually, I joined the Delphi Bryce forum first) and I've been a loyal member since ... Some changes I liked others not so much, but always learning.  LIke here.  I'm learning a lot.  Will send up some images based on our "talk" soon.

Thanks all.

Boni