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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 03 8:14 am)



Subject: Do you find yourself tearing your (Poser Dynamic) hair out?


PhilC ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 11:16 AM · edited Fri, 03 January 2025 at 12:07 PM

file_498833.jpg

How do folks find using Poser Dynamic hair? Easy, hard, never tried it? Bed head hair is easy but a sleak coiffure not so much? What would help?

I made this one for Dawn. Definitly a learning process :)

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aRtBee ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 12:15 PM

Like real hairdressing, I just need a lot of practice for nice coiffures. But is works fine in dynamic situations, with wind or moving fast etc. Nice coiffures don't really work with real dynamic situations though (like in real life).

Unfortunately, Dyn Hair does not behave very well in Reality3/LuxRender nor in Octane.

- - - - - 

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Cage ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 1:23 PM

Boy, do I! :laugh:

What would I need, to make dynamic hair accessible?  Mainly, I would need design tools which aren't solely oriented toward dragging in the 3D preview.  I find all of Poser's interface-dragging tools to be unwieldy and awkward, with the hair tools being the worst of the bunch.  The design tools feel like their development was stopped halfway through, before it was really ready for use, and then never picked up again.  They always make me think (perhaps inappropriately) of a Douglas Adams quote: "Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow."  The hair tools steer like two inebriated cows, trying to walk while attached to one another at the legs and wearing blinders.  Just really, really awkward.

Obviously, though, that is (to some extent, at least) just me.  I can't master Poser's interface drag tools, but others seem to manage them well enough.  You've done a nice job with the hair shown above.  :thumbupboth:  I seem to require some new user interface paradigm or other for the design tools, but they can be useful, in the right hands.

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vilters ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 5:29 PM

file_498836.jpg

Click to enlarge. This is what I have phil.

Morphs made with magnets.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


vilters ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 5:47 PM

file_498837.jpg

Click to enlarge. Combining the 4 morphs .

Longer
To Back
Small
Bundle

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


vilters ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 5:50 PM

file_498838.jpg

And here the Math room setup for the darker hair. For the blonder hair, just change the brown to something Blond.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


estherau ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 6:33 PM

seems to be only good for curley hair. Like you say, long sleek shiny hair would probably be impossible.

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RedPhantom ( ) posted Mon, 14 October 2013 at 7:39 PM
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Long sleek hair is not impoossible

But it is a pain in the ...well neck. (and head from all the hair pulling you'll do from trying to make it.)

The best way to do straight hair that I've found is to start with very short strands and use the translate tool (the hair one not the pose one) with the constrained length off and the slider at the tip pull the hair to the length you want. It works best with few strands at a time.

I'd love to see tools similar to shade's hair sallon. It has a comb that you can bend the hair from root to tip or and where in between straight on the screen rather than guessing where the bend would be. There is also a sisors for changing length. And the curl tool works better too. The hair room is a nice start, but there has been no advances since, yeah the the new dynamics, but that doesn't help with styling. It's like they made it and promptly forgot it. Sorry, no more rants...in this post.


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PhilC ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 4:36 AM

How many hair groups do you typically use?

A couple?

Afew?

Lots?


vilters ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 5:11 AM

As few as possible.
The more groups u use, the more possibilities to mess up and end frustrated and give up. It is by far the hardest and most difficult room in Poser and could use a complete work over.
"As is" ; it hardly gets any use at all at end users level.

I have been looking at some Blender hair video's lately and it looks quite controllable and productive there.
Will have to do more tests.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


RedPhantom ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 6:27 AM
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As few as possible, but that may be up to 9. 3 on each side, bangs and 2 in the back. Usually it's one or 2 on top, depending on if I need a part, one one each side, one in the back and bangs. The 2 things to keep in mind with the groups is hair matching seams, for lack of a better term, between groups can be difficult and cause parts where you don't want them and drastic changes in hair lengths in the same group cause the hair in between to be very strange.


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Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10


PhilC ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 7:42 AM

Interesting.

The above has about 40 overlapping groups. Since doing that render I've added some more to the front to bulk it up.


PhilC ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 2:54 PM

file_498855.jpg

I found it tedious changing parameters for each one separately so I wrote a Python script that enabled me to do them all (or a selection) via a single button.


vilters ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 3:22 PM

Phil?
Hello?
WHAW?
O M G ?

  • Cleaning up spilled coffee .

40?
Oeps?
Oh, Dear Lord?
Mother Maria?
And all her sisters?
And their children ?

Mine was a single group.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


PhilC ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 3:34 PM

A single polygon in the skullcap can be in several hair groups. My approach was to work in small manageable areas.


vilters ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 4:07 PM

Yeah, but the organisation and workflow to manage 40 groups. WHAW.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


PhilC ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 4:39 PM

Which is why I wrote the Python helper.


3Dave ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 5:57 PM

I prefer to use dynamic hair whenever possible, faster processors mean the calculations are a bit less of a gamble these days.

I love it when I find a dynamic hair style that works well in animations, I've a few that go into shock mode at sudden or rapid movements.

Big thankyou to RedPhantom, your "Side-part" hair performs really well.

My own attempts in the hair room are not worthy of mention, glad to hear I can blame the tools a bit too.

@PhilC is that hair going to be available in your store any time soon?


RedPhantom ( ) posted Tue, 15 October 2013 at 6:19 PM
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I'd be interested in that hair too, as well as that script.


Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10


fonpaolo ( ) posted Wed, 16 October 2013 at 4:41 AM

Oh, finally some interest regarding the Hair Room!


svdl ( ) posted Wed, 16 October 2013 at 1:08 PM · edited Wed, 16 October 2013 at 1:11 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

I often use dynamic hair, even as far back as in 2004:

Dynamic hair from RDNA store in action: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=697487&user_id=99327&np&np

One of my own attempts (nudity):

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=962581&user_id=99327&np&np

There's been a change in the rendering of dynamic hair, the later Poser versions require a lot more hair density.

Using a low poly proxy as a collision object helps a lot with dynamics calculations. kirwyn had some hair collision proxies for V2-4 and Jessie. I use them quite a lot, calculations are fast (often 2-3 per second on an i7)

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kobaltkween ( ) posted Fri, 18 October 2013 at 4:02 AM

I would like to start using Poser dynamic hair consistently.  Three things keep making it harder for me. 

One is the lack of a simple, focused tutorial.  I'd like something that just starts with how to add fur to a material group, or something like that.  Something that's just about how to grow hair out of something.   I'd even say one tutorial for just growing hair, a second tutorial for styling hair, a third for coloring (both regular and texture based), and a fourth for simulation settings and their effects with movement and wind.  After those, then maybe something about making a whole hair style.  But basics first, with an emphasis on normal use.  That is, either you've already made a prop or you're using someone else's prop.  

Two you've actually addressed here.  The way all the tutorials describe creating a whole hair style, and people seem to build them, involves many groups.  Which would be great if they could follow some sort of parented style system, sort of like CSS.  Instead, I find myself changing dozens of parameters in dozens of groups just to test. A tool to make changing settings easier would help immensely.

The third is availability and purpose.  Most of my dynamic hair choices are freebies from P5 or P6.  While I'm trying to stick to freebies to begin with, I've looked in all the stores I know of.  There's just not a lot to choose from.  I'm very grateful for the freebies and I'm very impressed by them.  But they don't use current hair tech (which has been seriously updated with each version of Poser), and they're really specifically styled.   They seem optimized for mimicking mesh hair stiffness, not simulating and moving with the figure.  I've yet to be able to figure out how to actually make dynamic hair color vary as much as my mesh hair textures do, though I know it's possible.  None of the freebies or products seem to have any hair color variation, except Tiny's cats.

My very best choice for a simple center parted short or medium length hair that moves is Wild Hair.  I use it all the time.  The best slicked back wet hair style I've seen is still Wet Hair by 3D Universe (then Dark Whisper) and the new ones by Valea.  The best long center parted hair I've seen is  Kyra hair.  I've come across one realistic afro, and I don't even know where to find it.  Oddly, the very best 20's bob I've seen was an old, old mesh by Vairesh here (Lulu hair).  I've never seen anything quite as well styled. 

It's hard to find good, simple hair styles today.  That's why people still use the old ones, like Kozaburo's.  Lots of hair styles are sleek and very even.  Strandy hair is only realistic for very specific types of cuts.

I'd love to see dynamic versions of all those basic styles.  Judging by how many people ask me where I got Wild Hair, and how popular Kyra Hair is, which is updated but has exactly the same look it did back at 3DCommune, I think others would be interested, too.

The whole reason I'm interested in dynamic hair is dynamic and reclining poses (leaps, dance moves, upside down, lying on the floor, etc.).  Every time I've wanted to use dynamic hair, I just wanted plain straight or wavy hair that moves.  Or a plain curly afro.  Can't we start with simpler styles and move to more complex updos, ponytails, and so-on? 

Also, am I missing some attribute of dynamic hair that causes it to be unable to drape?  Why is there this emphasis on it laying properly before the sim?  I ask because the little I have used dynamic hair has seemed to be fine mainly relying on gravity and collisions rather than laying perfectly before the sim. 

Oh, and I'm getting wicked fast calculations with bullet physics on.  It took less time to run a sim than to alter settings in 10 or more groups.  No need for proxies.



aRtBee ( ) posted Fri, 18 October 2013 at 6:18 AM

@kobaltkween

on tutorials, still unfinished so just covering half of your questions, but nevertheless:

http://www.book.artbeeweb.nl/?book=hair-room

- - - - - 

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though


randym77 ( ) posted Fri, 18 October 2013 at 12:34 PM

I would like some nice hair shaders.  Especially ones that look good under the Envirodome.


aRtBee ( ) posted Fri, 18 October 2013 at 2:06 PM

ever experimented with connecting image maps to the slots of the hair node? this one is designed to be used with grown / dynamic hair from the hair room.

- - - - - 

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though


VolcanicMink ( ) posted Sat, 19 October 2013 at 12:55 PM

file_498949.PNG

> Quote - *Interesting.* > > *The above has about 40 overlapping groups. Since doing that render I've added some more to the front to bulk it up.* > > I used 15 groups for the attached elf. I did have 17, but the last group I tried to grow would never come in. I found that cutting back to 15 solved the problem. I thought there was a maybe a maximum allowance I had exceeded. Apparently that max applies to my system rather than the program. I recently upgraded to the limits of my low budget, and I have had fewer problems (so far). Eventually I'll upgrade the memory. > > Using multiple groups seems to allow more control. The biggest problem is the gap between the guide hair and its followers. This guy will need post work to get the lagging hairs out of his ear. Is there an adjustment anywhere for that lagspace? > > --PoserPro12; HP Workstation Xeon Quad-core 8GB; Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Intel X58; NVIDIA Quadro FX 1800 768 MB video


TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sat, 19 October 2013 at 3:45 PM

Admittedly I haven't read the whole thread. But I have a few dynamic hairs (I think I bought them here) that takes an (IMO) great stance on the hair group and more important, render time, issue.

It has relatively thin hair on the crown of the head. And then like a ring (several parts of a ring actually) of denser hair around the perimeter. So the hair LOOKS really lush without the need for zillions of hair strands.

I've tried making dynamic hair a few times. With various success, Once I figured out how to actually style the hair it becamse easier, but I'm still using transmapped hair for 95% of my renders. I like the effect of dynamic hair, and for animations it's a must unless you're going with a buzz cut /slicked down hair. But.. it's not as easy as it could be. I wish Poser came with more various examples of dynamic hair...

Still, a good dynamjic hairdo is something I would probably buy. I'm not doing a lot of animations, but from time to time the need arises, and it just looks better. Just like dynamic cloth falls nicer when we're talking skirts or robes :)

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randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 19 October 2013 at 9:57 PM

Quote - It has relatively thin hair on the crown of the head. And then like a ring (several parts of a ring actually) of denser hair around the perimeter. So the hair LOOKS really lush without the need for zillions of hair strands.

That is key, IMO.  What I'd really like (and I've said this for years) is a skullcap designed for dynamic hair.  It should be relatively low-res, but with a higher-res band around the forehead, temples, etc. where the hair roots show. 


EnglishBob ( ) posted Wed, 23 October 2013 at 10:52 AM

Attached Link: http://www.morphography.uk.vu/dlkirwyn.html

> Quote - Using a low poly proxy as a collision object helps a lot with dynamics calculations. kirwyn had some hair collision proxies for V2-4 and Jessie. I use them quite a lot, calculations are fast (often 2-3 per second on an i7)

He still does. ;-)  


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