Poor Clarkie, I think maybe he's a bit confused :biggrin:

Vilter's comment was a surprise as well.  The idea of taking a Rex and pulling-out some breasts from it shows quite a kinky imagination when all is said and done.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if his next product turns out to be a breasted Rex!

i liked M4 cuz he didn't have magnets attached to him.

well, gianni6 for g2m is out,

all i can think of to make for him is erotic bondage props. 

"Add again all the sci-fi and fantasy designs seen in video games and films..............
........The options are pretty much endless for potential male clothing."

Agreed,there was a time when we had More Sci Fantasy Stuff for Male figures in the poser
market and TOP quality producers Like Sanctumart,
but alas that era seems to have passed for this Market

Some great Inspiration here BTW:
http://masseffectconceptart.tumblr.com/

"Combine that with the demasculinization of men today, where they are expected to be hairless, androgynous whelps who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag with a map and written directions."

Well thank the radical feminist's  who have seized control of the Gender Role, media Narrative and...............oh dont get me started!!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

QUOTE:
"What if the woman is a lesbian?"

lol - She'd be drawing a woman instead?

Awww, you didn't get the joke. A LESBIAN who likes men would be GAY!

Bisexual

Yeah, you didn't get it either. If a woman likes men, she's straight. If she likes women, she's lesbian. So a lesbian who likes MEN would be gay.

Bisexual. I got the joke, you're getting the terms wrong. Liking both sexes does not mean you're gay and you're liable to offend that person if you say it as such.

No, you didn't get the joke, and I didn't get the terminology wrong. I guess the humor was just too subtle. The joke is in where you start off. If a woman starts off as straight but she likes women, then she must be lesbian. So the reverse must be true if she starts off lesbian but she likes men, she can't be straight so then she must be gay. Ahh, never mind. You've killed it for me now.

bring on the manbabes  !!!

they aren't hanging out at the mall.  i checked.
they aren't at the bus stop.

Quote -

Well thank the radical feminist's  who have seized control of the Gender Role, media Narrative and...............oh dont get me started!!

Don't blame feminism. The entire point of radical feminism was to try to eliminate gender role expectations for BOTH sexes, freeing both men and women to do and be what they desired without feeling beholden to temporary and changing cultural stereotypes. To be sure, 100 years ago, the sense was that women were far less free than men in this regard, and a lot of energy was expended to rectify that. The result was largely successful: women can be doctors, astronauts, physicists, university professors. These are things we take for granted now, but would have been almost impossible 50 years ago.

We've also gone a long way toward making it socially acceptable for men to feel good about spending time with their children and taking part in raising those children in a much more direct way. 

Feminism was never about redefining masculinity, except to give men more freedom to define it for themselves as individuals.

The fact that these idealistic goals haven't been met, and that there has been an enormous backlash isn't the fault of the philosophy itself.

The de-masculinization of men is much more likely the result of a corporate driven economy that relies on producing anxiety in people in order to get them to buy more and more and more things. You can't sell face cream and special shampoo that costs twice as much to a man who cares only about being clean. But if you can make him feel self-conscious because his skin is too rough or dry or wrinkled or hairy, you've opened up a whole new avenue of products for him.

Unfortunately, when you open up the possibility of individual freedom of personal expression (in appearance, in fashion, etc), Wall Street has a bad habit of stepping in and doing whatever it needs to in order to sell as much as it can most efficiently.  

Don't blame radical feminism. Blame Unilever. Blame Proctor & Gamble. Blame Johnson & Johnson. 

Quote - i liked M4 cuz he didn't have magnets attached to him.

well, gianni6 for g2m is out,

all i can think of to make for him is erotic bondage props. 

M4 just seems a weird shape to me. There's something about him that makes me think of dodgy insurance salesman. Don't like him much at all, but trying to fit M4 stuff to M3 is another one that's not really worth it. Armour looks the same whatever figure's underneath it.

Well, I agree with Shane: the demascularization of men is a very real problem, and like most problems in the world today, the media are solely responsible for it being there.  It's about time men in general put all this "political correctness" crap out of their minds and said what they really feel.

That's all Shane has really done, spoken his mind, and good for him because that's what "men" do.

The problem is the media act like they have the right to dictate what we like, and even whether we have the right to like what we like.  They get away with it because whenever the media don't get their own way, they start whining about political correctness in order to make those that speak the facts, look bad.

Fact is, a real "man" doesn't give a crap about whether his comment is politically correct or not, and he will say it regardless.  Politicians are manipulative tossers in suits so why would a man give a crap about their policies?  The main problem with demascularization is that it treads a line that heterosexual men do not want to be labelled with, so why should they have to be, just to passify the media or political correctness?

Fact is, men have a right to shout about anything we don't like, just as much as women had the right to shout about unfair wages etc.  The problem overall is that almost everyone feels like they have to conform to some sort of standard, when actually, they don't, it's just the media that brainwash most people into thinking they do.

Bottom line is heterosexual men don't have to like the demascularisation crap that's going on.  We don't, and we will continue to say we don't whether others like it or not.  No amount of force-fed crap from the media or politics will ever change that.

Men say what they want, where they want, and for those that don't like it, we can always get our spear out :sneaky:

Back to basics, that's what we need:
Me Tarzan, you Jane - fancy a good shag in our mortgage-free treehouse?

Oooooooooh Jane, oh god yes!!!

It is not only sexuality that has an impact on views but age does as well.  I am at a lovely old age where I do not feel I have to conform, accept that I never really did.  I tired to go through life hurting as few people as possible and helping as many as I could, after that I did just about what I wanted to.

At my age no amount of any cream is going to give me smooth skin, I am too much of a coward for piercings and tattoos. I still call Christmas.......well Christmas but I am happy for anyone else to call it whatever they like.  I have never been to farce book and a spend no time at all at twatter.  My life is run around my wife, my dog, and my hobbies, and on the whole life is fun.  I am not against men with earings, or make up but you will have to excuse me if I smile in public a little more than I used to.  Oh and I my M4 will tend to look like the men who were role models in my day.

Quote - I wouldn't mind buying this stuff.
but I've never seen anything like this for DAZ Poser.

http://www.mrwallpaper.com/wallpapers/huge-fantasy-warrior.jpg

http://images5.alphacoders.com/297/297917.jpg

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/XshitzX/LichKing.jpg

Anyone else here wan't cool stuff like this ?

You need to learn to shop in more places than 'Rosity & DAZ

www.xurge3d.com

You're welcome.

QUOTE:
***"It is not only sexuality that has an impact on views but age does as well.  I am at a lovely old age where I do not feel I have to conform, accept that I never really did.  I tired to go through life hurting as few people as possible and helping as many as I could, after that I did just about what I wanted to.***At my age no amount of any cream is going to give me smooth skin, I am too much of a coward for piercings and tattoos. I still call Christmas.......well Christmas but I am happy for anyone else to call it whatever they like.  I have never been to farce book and a spend no time at all at twatter.  My life is run around my wife, my dog, and my hobbies, and on the whole life is fun.  I am not against men with earings, or make up but you will have to excuse me if I smile in public a little more than I used to.  Oh and I my M4 will tend to look like the men who were role models in my day."

You sound a good role model to me, Hornet ;-)

Go back 100 years in the UK and you're looking at the suffrage movement, driven by the fact that women were not allowed to vote. They were not regarded as important. Men, and more particularly men who owned property, were the people of consequence who ran things.

Not too long prior to that women (and children) were regarded as 'goods and chattel' ie. the property of a man.

So things have changed, but as Lester Freamon said, if you want to know what's really going on you have to follow the money. There was a news piece on BBC Radio 4 a couple of years back that reported a survey looking at pay rates between men and women doing the same jobs. The finding was that women were paid an average of 21% less than men.

That says to me that the UK at least still has an issue with gender equality.

BTW, what does Tarzan do if Jane says no?

QUOTE:
"BTW, what does Tarzan do if Jane says no?"

Jane cannot resist Tarzan because he's the man, she never says no.

She doesn't need excuses like "I'm washing my hair tonight", either, because Tarzan already washed it for her under the waterfall***.

Quote - Go back 100 years in the UK and you're looking at the suffrage movement, driven by the fact that women were not allowed to vote. They were not regarded as important. Men, and more particularly men who owned property, were the people of consequence who ran things.

Not too long prior to that women (and children) were regarded as 'goods and chattel' ie. the property of a man.

So things have changed, but as Lester Freamon said, if you want to know what's really going on you have to follow the money. There was a news piece on BBC Radio 4 a couple of years back that reported a survey looking at pay rates between men and women doing the same jobs. The finding was that women were paid an average of 21% less than men.

That says to me that the UK at least still has an issue with gender equality.

BTW, what does Tarzan do if Jane says no?

+1

In many ways, it really is that simple.

What bothers me is how a striving for legal and economic equality has been reinterpreted as a war against men, as though it must be a zero sum game in which women cannot gain something without men losing something. The same can be said for issues of race, disability, sexual orientation, etc.

For that, I suppose we can indeed blame the radical feminists, because this very notion of a struggle among the sexes was central to their philosophy.

The reality is that as long as we continue to rely on stereotypes and labelling in our dealings with people, every minority gets screwed in some way, whether that's men wanting custody of their children in a society that does not yet support the idea of the single dad, or women wanting equal pay in a male dominated field, or a racial minority wanting to advance in a traditionally caucasian field.

If we could view people as individuals, with an enormous variation in beliefs, skills, abilities, and talents -- who nevertheless, as human beings, are so very much more like us than they are different -- we would do a lot better.

As for political correctness, I agree that in many ways it gets taken too far. But if you think of it as just another way to say "decent good manners", it's a lot less controversial. Yes, we can all walk around willing to offend whoever we like with our views and opinions, and we can be loud and obnoxious about it too. But if we are, I don't think we should complain when other people call us out for it. Freedom asserts itself in all directions, not just the ones that we find convenient. :D

Quote -
Fact is, a real "man" doesn't give a crap about whether his comment is politically correct or not, and he will say it regardless.  Politicians are manipulative tossers in suits so why would a man give a crap about their policies?  The main problem with demascularization is that it treads a line that heterosexual men do not want to be labelled with, so why should they have to be, just to passify the media or political correctness?

Of course you can say what you want. 

But if you say something that offends me, I am equally able to tell you that. It's bad manners to go around offending people, and in many venues, a certain standard of manners is expected. Expecting that you should be permitted to offend anyone you want whenever you want isn't a trait I associate with mature adulthood. Just sayin'.

The problem is that complaints about "political correctness" are often just a cover for a desire to be obnoxious and ill-mannered without any consequences.

For example, I, for one, am not sorry that telling racist jokes is not publicly acceptable in most parts of the country I live in. And while it might put a damper on some people's ability to enjoy jokes at others' expense, I'm not going to weep over their loss.

Just don't behave like an arse with people you don't know well, and you don't have to worry about political correctness. Good manners takes care of that for you.

Very true, and I cannot abide bad manners either.

But we live in a world where far too many liberties are being taken, dictating what we can and can't do, and worse still, what others can do on your behalf even without your permission.  But anyway, that would go off in a whole new direction!

When you read my post, you probably either saw it as ignorance or reality.  Fact is, it's reality, it's just that reality isn't always what we want to hear.  When men are ordered around and forced into a corner, they will fight back.  Why do you think men are responsible for the majority of crime?

It's because men in general will not be pushed around like most women will, and that's the way it should be because no one owns you.

Anyway, back on a lighter note, I read your comment and just had to dig this comedy sketch out.  It's made to look old, but it's actually a modern piece by one of my favourite comedians, Harry Enfield.

The video explains why women should not be allowed to make decisions or even speak at the table.  It then shows a diagram explaining why womens brains cannot be educated properly.  Finally, it shows the disastrous result of trying to educate a woman (and I guarantee you'll laugh).

This is a comedy sketch and is not the opinion of that lovely pumeco dude:
[**Click to watch "Women: Know Your Limits!"

**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w)

Ok this is becoming entirely offensive on numerous levels, and political issues are never allowed, especially when they have nothing to do with the original thread topic. 

I know, I'm probably mostly to blame for that one. I didn't think about the political spin-off that could spawn from it.

The topic resurfaces every few months and the same opinions get bantered around usually by the same people, and nothing is ever resolved, because there's really nothing to resolve.

Here's the thing: Everyone has their own opinions on why/why not with male figures. None of them are right or wrong. 

Just because you don't see men rendered in the galleries as often as the females, doesn't mean they aren't being used or that the content doesn't sell enough to make it profitable. 

There are male character sets here in the MP that have been there for years, so obviously there is enough interest in male figures to keep - for example THIS SET  - selling regularly enough for it not to have been dropped from Renderosity's product catalog in over 8 years. 

One set, for P6 James no less, that has consistently sold in this MP for 8 years? That's nearly 2 years older than the oldest set I can find for M3. That doesn't sound like a waste of time to me at all. It tells me that 1 - there's enough interest in at least that particular male figure and 2, it's a well-crafted product that people enjoy. It's not even on clearance.

And that's what it all boils down to - how good the product is. If its obvious that the artist put real effort into producing the best quality they could, then people will buy it. If it's something that's slapped together in a weekend then that will be quite obvious and most people likely won't buy it. 

At any rate, keep it on topic or I'm locking the thread. NO MORE POLITICS.

Now I gotta go clean up the mess I caused.

~Shane

Roxie is in free stuff already, Rex probably tomorrow.

Zero the figures before continuing to pose them.
Use the grasp dials in the figures hand controls to grab the spear and sword.
Some materials preview black, but they render as above.

Both are armed.
Don't you dare download one of them, more or less then the other.
LOL.

Happy Posering you all.

Yeah, you certainly know how to start a storm, Shane :-D

Seriously though, I hope that comedy sketch I posted never upset anyone, it's in such good humour that even the BBC have listed it on YouTube as "An Important Public Service Announcement".

LMFAO

Quote -
Bisexual. I got the joke, you're getting the terms wrong. Liking both sexes does not mean you're gay and you're liable to offend that person if you say it as such.

Even though your reply was not aimed at me -- point taken.

Assigning your own personal set of labels to someone else, even in jest, is not likely to be taken well. Identity is sacred. We are all what we say we are. Contradicting someone else's affirmed identity is patently offensive. Being myself on the genderflexible part of the spectrum, I should know better. I appreciate the tactful comment, even if it wasn't specifically for me.

Edit: Sorry, Shane. Didn't see your post until after I hit submit.

I also didn't realize that certain topics were verboten. I shall keep that in mind in future. 

Edit more: When someone remarks that feminisn is responsible for some social ill or other, and that comment is permitted to stand, it suggests that the subject is open for discussion and acceptable in the forums. I apologize for my confusion in this regard.

Quote - > Quote - I wouldn't mind buying this stuff.

but I've never seen anything like this for DAZ Poser.

http://www.mrwallpaper.com/wallpapers/huge-fantasy-warrior.jpg

http://images5.alphacoders.com/297/297917.jpg

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/XshitzX/LichKing.jpg

Anyone else here wan't cool stuff like this ?

You need to learn to shop in more places than 'Rosity & DAZ

www.xurge3d.com

You're welcome.

not raging on www.xurge3d.com but there not even close to what I was talking about.

care to try again ssgbryan ?

**
@RorrKonn**
Didn't I read from you somewhere that you're into game mesh design?

Why not exploit the market and create a mesh if there's difficulty finding stuff like that.  If it's hard to find then no doubt others are having the same problem as you are.  Could be a small money spinner :-)

@Moriador
Are you referring to anything I posted?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I wouldn't mind buying this stuff.

but I've never seen anything like this for DAZ Poser.

http://www.mrwallpaper.com/wallpapers/huge-fantasy-warrior.jpg

http://images5.alphacoders.com/297/297917.jpg

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/XshitzX/LichKing.jpg

Anyone else here wan't cool stuff like this ?

You need to learn to shop in more places than 'Rosity & DAZ

www.xurge3d.com

You're welcome.

not raging on www.xurge3d.com but there not even close to what I was talking about.

care to try again ssgbryan ?

mighty_mestophales has some cool stuff over at Daz. And RawArt's monsters and giants aren't exactly soft either.

You can do a lot with Xurge's outfits. It all depends on how good your imagination is.

tiff666's gallery is full of "Michaels" but I wouldn't say more than one or two belong in a "romance". :D :D

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=278365

As with all art, it's not the tools, but what you do with them, right? :)

Quote - Edit: @Moriador
Are you referring to anything I posted?

Not at all. I'm not at all unhappy that Wolf made the comment. He's entitled to his opinion, as we all are. But it opens the door to some pretty controversial stuff. If discussion of such things is forbidden, then even off-handed one-liners about them should be as well. [Of course, Shane would be here all day and night reading threads if he were to catch every single comment that might potential lead somewhere -- it's clearly not possible. So I get his point that he was stopping things at the point that he did take notice. That's fair.]

Quote - Edit: Sorry, Shane. Didn't see your post until after I hit submit.

I also didn't realize that certain topics were verboten. I shall keep that in mind in future. 

Edit more: When someone remarks that feminisn is responsible for some social ill or other, and that comment is permitted to stand, it suggests that the subject is open for discussion and acceptable in the forums. I apologize for my confusion in this regard.

Pretty much anything that isn't directly Poser-related is up for deletion, and even then some issues that can run into gray areas.

Political and religious discussions have always been 86'd as quick as they pop up cause they almost always end up ruffling feathers and causing meltdowns. 

Problem is, I can't sit here and read every single post that's made every minute of the day. It may be a few hours or more before something gets caught and by then there's a nuclear fallout going on in the forums over something that was said 3 days ago that some troll spots and runs with just to see how far he can get, or to deliberately lock the thread. 

There used to be an Off-Topic forum here years ago, but it was canned due to all the flame wars, most of which usually involved politics and religion and various social issues. At least that's my understanding.

So yeah, if it's political or religious in nature, beyond the mondane things like "Can I get an Obama head morph?" or "I need some Jesus robes for this figure!" - then chances are it's going to get X'd for being disruptive. Very generalized term that, "disruptive".  

~Shane

**
@Moriador**
Glad to hear it, lol, so did you laugh at that "Venomous Harridans" part in the video?
I'm just curious to know how the British humour went down on the other side of the pond :-D

Quote - > Quote - Edit: Sorry, Shane. Didn't see your post until after I hit submit.

I also didn't realize that certain topics were verboten. I shall keep that in mind in future. 

Edit more: When someone remarks that feminisn is responsible for some social ill or other, and that comment is permitted to stand, it suggests that the subject is open for discussion and acceptable in the forums. I apologize for my confusion in this regard.

 

Pretty much anything that isn't directly Poser-related is up for deletion, and even then some issues that can run into gray areas.

Political and religious discussions have always been 86'd as quick as they pop up cause they almost always end up ruffling feathers and causing meltdowns. 

Problem is, I can't sit here and read every single post that's made every minute of the day. It may be a few hours or more before something gets caught and by then there's a nuclear fallout going on in the forums over something that was said 3 days ago that some troll spots and runs with just to see how far he can get, or to deliberately lock the thread. 

There used to be an Off-Topic forum here years ago, but it was canned due to all the flame wars, most of which usually involved politics and religion and various social issues. At least that's my understanding.

 

So yeah, if it's political or religious in nature, beyond the mondane things like "Can I get an Obama head morph?" or "I need some Jesus robes for this figure!" - then chances are it's going to get X'd for being disruptive. Very generalized term that, "disruptive".  

 

~Shane

X-posted.

Yeah, I gave it a moment of thought, and came to the same conclusion. I wasn't being exactly fair. My definition of "political" is much more narrow than yours. But I'm not the moderator, for very good reasons. :) So I appreciate the clarification and the explanation. Thank you.

Back on topic: I think perhaps we've been viewing only a narrow selection of renders. And that's falsely colored our perceptions. Clearly there are people, like tiff666, rendering males and male content that isn't cheesy. You have to dig deep into the galleries to find them, though.

moriador : tiff666 is now added to my favorite artist list.

pumeco : well ,to be honest about it ,i don't know.
maybe cause at work there's a lot of us. but here it just me.
it's not all that fun working on a project all buy ya self.

Quote - moriador : tiff666 is now added to my favorite artist list.

 

pumeco : well ,to be honest about it ,i don't know.
maybe cause at work there's a lot of us. but here it just me.
it's not all that fun working on a project all buy ya self.

Glad you like him. He's my all time favorite here at Renderosity. I wish he showed up in the art charts more often. :)

There is a lot of stuff for the male figures, but when you take out the stuff I don't want, very little in what I can actually use.  Not into fantasy, historical or action fiction type things, there goes over half of it.  But even when I see something labeled as a '50's style, sorry Charlie, but I'm a '50's guy.  It wasn't so much the styles, although it was well into the '60's before skirts above the knee were really accepted, it was almost an obsession that everything was neat.  Blue jeans in school were barely acceptable, worn by those you didn't want to hang with, let them hang separately. 

Where I graduated, if you wore a string tie, it wasn't ridiculed, more than half of us did.  No tee shirts in school, you had to have a shirt, a real shirt.  To be "in", the collar was also starched, enough that it didn't fall open and lay on your collar bones.  Loafers, fine.  Oxfords, fine.  athletic shoes were for the gym, not in the school proper.  Dances, other school affairs where appearaance was really seen, you had your suit, white or light colored shirt and a tie.  (Explains why I liked string ties) 

That was Laytonville Calif. in 1959, where only a couple of years before, there had been 27 operating sawmills within a twenty mile radius,  by 63, down to three mills left, now zero.  Really back in the sticks, but even there, there were standards that were unwritten, just kept.  Not much of what's available now in 3d comes close.  Clothing for males is a real problem once you take out what I call junk, YMMV.

Doric.

'Masculine' has changed, but i'm not sure what it is naos.

It's not the Marlboro man (barf). 

but when i was a kid, we didn't have microwaves, hair dryers were a big bag we wore on our heads attached to a tabletop machine.

i watched a whole bunch of male fashion shows from Milan on the utoobs, didn't see anything i'd consider 'masculine' or 'sexeh'.  conan and tarzan don't strike me as 'masculine'.

There are a lot of different angles to the male versus female clothing/accessories/hair scenario.

From a user point of view, it could be that, at the heart of it, male users are creating the ideal mate.  Female users are creating the ideal self.  That's a very broad stroke to paint but I think very generally, that is true.

Commercially, clothes and accessories are more geared towards women.  Whether or not there are male markets spawning from that doesn't really affect that from the ground view, accessories and clothing for women is dominant.  It might be closer sized in high fashion and so on, but if you take the example of a mall and department stores -- very female dominant.

As a designer, I can only say what motivates me or what I find interesting.  Being completely honest, I find it more interesting to design female clothes, female accessories, female morphs and so on.  I get bored making male stuff and I find that most male clothes are just variations on the same thing -- it's just not interesting to me.  You have a few base items and you can really get away with texturing for variety.  I'm talking contemporary clothes and not sci-fi/historical/fantasy.

That doesn't mean that occasionally I get a wild hair or I won't make some cargo shorts next week.  It just means that in general, it's just more fun and interesting to make stuff for the gals.

It also takes more skill and time to make male clothing that looks authentic, while skin-tight slutwear can be thrown together in a matter of hours. 

And until G2M/M6 came out, pretty much all the male figures available are just awkward and goofy lookin, not very inspiring to build clothing for and difficult to make them attractive.

There's more male clothing being created now than before it seems. Maybe that's because the slutwear market is reaching its saturation limit.

~Shane

I had something ready like : It takes more polygons to make male clothing. lol;

who are the fashion forward men's wear icons these days?

David Bowie would be timeless. 
Kai with his undead fashion chic. 
11th Dr and his bowtie, he tried to bring the fez hat into fashion. :)

i saw a pic of Nathan Fillion in a leather(or faux leather) kilt.

I actually like using male figures and would render them more often, but it seemed the content was always so limited for what I wanted to do.  And then there were the projects I gave up on because I found M4 to just be a pain to work with sometimes.

Replacing M4 was my whole reason for investing anything into Genesis, and I've been quite satisfied with Gen1/M5 after I figured out the quirks.  Though it did mean that I lost having a native male figure I could import into Vue.  (I'm sure it can be done, but I've just found it easier to move that particular workflow to Reality for the time being.)

I personally like the look of M5 over M6, but Gianni could be very useful to me.  If G2M is continuing to get reasonable support, it might finally be time to invest in it.

And of course I'm watching Dusk with interest.  I know I could really use a native male figure that's not M4 but has solid support.  Just have to decide if I spend my budget now on G2M or sit and wait until Dusk's eventual release.

Quote -Commercially, clothes and accessories are more geared towards women.  Whether or not there are male markets spawning from that doesn't really affect that from the ground view, accessories and clothing for women is dominant.  It might be closer sized in high fashion and so on, but if you take the example of a mall and department stores -- very female dominant.

You're not considering online sales, which exceeds brick-n-mortar sales by a good margin. And retailers are always slow to pick up on the latest trends.

I don't keep up with it much, but the men's cosmetics industry alone is over $33billion, with about 10% of that just in the US. It's nearly doubled in the last 5 to 10 years. Everything from deoderant and body wash, to make-up and nail polish designed (and named) specicially for men. And men's fashion is growing at about the same rate. Just read an article about general male beauty products that says on average 73% of men in the US use some sort of skin care daily (not including soap and shower), opposed to 72% of women. Of course who knows how much skew is put on that to make it seem more important. Surveys always have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Unfortunately, it's trending away from the classic "Marlboro men" and more towards the "boy georges". :shiver:

No clue who the biggest male fashion models are these days. David Bowie is by far the last on the list whenever I think masculinity. Actually he doesn't even make the list. :more shivers: lol.

~Shane

Rex The Roman has 129 downloads.
Roxie The Roman has 175 downloads.

No idea if these "themed" outfits are representative of anything.

But we will see in the future (not released yet) how Rex The Forestrunner does compared to Roxie The Forestrunner.

But then again, perhaps these "themed outfits" might not be representative of anything.

In the "real world"?

Compare the number of shoes between men and women.

LOL.

pumeco wrote:
*"... it’s no surprise that a lot of successful clothes designers are men.  Men know what makes a woman sexy more than women do.  You are the woman, we are the observers, and we know what we like (whether women like it or not).  What you like and what we like are two totally different things.  Women look better in clothes designed by men because for the most part, men are the observers of the female form.  It makes perfect sense in much the same way that clothes for men will be better designed by women (even if we don’t think so). * It’s a case of you know what you like to see, and so do we."

@MistyLaraPrincess
Coming from another male, I have to agree that Bowie is pretty timeless with his dress sense, he knows how to look cool.  The attached pic is from the inner sleeve of the album "Heathen", and lets face it, not many could wear that suit and make it look as cool as that.

He obviously can, though I bet his tailor got paid a fair bit for that suit!

It's a combination of factors that IMHO, speaks to a general view, not just mall/dept store example.  However, the last time I walked a mall, there were multiple jewelry, clothing and shoe stores marketed to women.  That's not to say it's one-sided and there aren't stores marketed to men, but my perception is that there is more "variety" in female clothes and accessories to tap into.

Male, real-world items you can easily get away with several basic items and morphs/textures to accomplish the minute changes between styles.  Most guys that I know/see wear:  T-Shirt or Polo-style work shirt.  Jeans, Pants or Cargo shorts.  Probably the greatest variety of menswear is shoes/boots.  That's not all there is and you can do business suits, tuxedos and so on but for general, everyday wear there is not a huge amount of variety for men.

That, I think, speaks to how men shop.  This might be lame but I have a closet full of T-Shirts, some black polos, of course some long-sleves but basically they all are the same within their own category.  I have cargo shorts, jeans and some pants but they are basically all the same.  IMHO, there just is not a lot to do with that in terms of contemporary guy stuff.

Yes, if you tap into historical clothing and armor and sci-fi garb, there is a wealth of things to do, partially because you aren't as restrained to the here and now.

@pumeco: I'm not trying to be harsh about that either, just I think it is generally true (deep down).  It certainly doesn't apply to everyone or to even most content creators necessarily.  I'm not making porn here to be quite honest, but it doesn't bother me if that's what others want to do, if that is the case.  I do think, "hey, that's pretty hot" (or whatever) but I'm more in it for the fun/interest in designing the content itself.

I remember the days when a nice hairy chest was a badge of manliness (and miss them...lol). Not that I'm a fan of a guy wearing a fur pelt, but chest hair is very nice IMVHO. Long live furry chests and mustaches LOL.

yes...Tom Selleck used to be a sexy mofo...lol

As for the males, I guess people just plain aren't as interested in them as they are the females and that's what it boils down to. No more complicated than that ;).

Laurie

Quote - Rex The Roman has 129 downloads.
Roxie The Roman has 175 downloads.

No idea if these "themed" outfits are representative of anything.

But we will see in the future (not released yet) how Rex The Forestrunner does compared to Roxie The Forestrunner.

But then again, perhaps these "themed outfits" might not be representative of anything.

They're representative of the fact that people aren't as interested in stuff for men as they are in women's. I started out making an item for Roxie and then an item for Rex. Roxie consistenly got more downloads. And these things were free! I made a tennis outfit for Roxie, she got 400 downloads, Rex, got just over 200. Superhero bodysuits... Roxie got 411. Rex hasn't cracked 200 yet. Same thing with poses. I haven't stopped making things for Rex, but I have dialed it back and started concentrating more on Roxie.

Quite frankly, in high fashion, I don't think anyone looks hot. :D Also, at this point in time, you can't be sure whether you're looking at a boy or a girl walking down the catwalk. One of the most successful "female" models is a man; one of Ford's top male models is a woman. When androgyny becomes the high fashion ideal, I don't think traditional views of sexual attractiveness are what's being promoted.

Some of the outfits are absurd. Hot? Haha. I just know that this is what the boys are looking for on a Saturday night, eh pumeco?

Not trying to be critical in a judgmental way. Variety is the spice of life, and if there's one truism you can trust, it's that fasion is ever-changing.

But what I want are clothes that fit well, and that are functional, comfortable, and lasting. I couldn't give two bleeps whether or not I look "hot" in them. If I do, then they're not appropriate for most of what I do each day. Unfortunately, very little of what is made for women fulfills all of those requirements for me. My friends feel exactly the same way. Many of the clothes we like best are designed by women. Because they know how the clothes feel when you wear them. And, unless you're the most self-absorbed narcissist in the world, you'll be feeling the clothes on your body far more than you'll be seeing them on you in a mirror.

Other women will have different needs. No doubt much of what is being sold is fantasy. Like lottery tickets. The payout isn't the 1 in 13 million chance that you'll win the jackpot -- or more to the point, look like the women in the ads who wear a particular outfit; the payout is the brief, momentary fantasy that maybe you could. This is probably why women's closets are filled with clothes they will never wear, and why women tend to like shopping a lot more than men do.

Wall Street is trying like hell to get men to adopt this same fantasy. It's peddled by creating anxiety, and the product is touted as exactly the thing to alleviate that anxiety. But you don't want your product to work too well. Better to sell the illusion.

I hope the fellas don't fall for it. If they do, they'll end up with cheap, ill fitting clothes that last less than a season, and are covered with stupid decorations like built-in belts and fake pockets.

M4 is dorky unless you morph him into submission, and even then he has all sorts of issues. We've been waiting for a good Poser male for a very long time. I'm still hoping. :)

Hint, hint, Shane.

Quote -I remember the days when a nice hairy chest was a badge of manliness (and miss them...lol). Not that I'm a fan of a guy wearing a fur pelt, but chest hair is very nice IMVHO. Long live furry chests and mustaches LOL.

Manscaping should be illegal, IMO. I'm a walking carpet (thanks to my Italian herritage) and I like it that way. 

Quote -They're representative of the fact that people aren't as interested in stuff for men as they are in women's. I started out making an item for Roxie and then an item for Rex. Roxie consistenly got more downloads. And these things were free! I made a tennis outfit for Roxie, she got 400 downloads, Rex, got just over 200. Superhero bodysuits... Roxie got 411. Rex hasn't cracked 200 yet. Same thing with poses. I haven't stopped making things for Rex, but I have dialed it back and started concentrating more on Roxie.

Apparently so, even when it's completely historically innacurate, such as Vilter's Roman Roxie. But that is the trend in today's society, insistent on putting women in impossible roles that they aren't physically capable of handling as a whole, and wussifying the men. 

Ah well.

~Shane

Quote - Manscaping should be illegal, IMO. I'm a walking carpet (thanks to my Italian herritage) and I like it that way.

I married a Saskwatch. Exactly what you want during those cold Canadian winters. However, just as beards can get out of control and need a trim, the occasional functional trim of certain parts of the human male pelt can be desirable. But keep those razors and waxes and creams away! If it can't be accomplished with a pair of scissors or a set of clippers, it doesn't need to be. :D

Quote -Apparently so, even when it's completely historically innacurate, such as Vilter's Roman Roxie. But that is the trend in today's society, insistent on putting women in impossible roles that they aren't physically capable of handling as a whole, and wussifying the men. 

Ah well.

~Shane

It's true. Fantasy (and I don't just genre fantasy) women are portrayed as impossibly sexy or as impossibly tough. Just doing what women have been doing for centuries apparently isn't appealing enough. Well, that's fair, I think. Women who are rendering women as a way of recreating their fantasies-of-self probably aren't going to be too interested in portraying an ordinary person.

As for wussy men... I don't know what's going on. It's as though at some point we decided 16 year old girls with their -- Ew, he's got hair on his butt!! OMG! -- attitude should dominate. I even hear adult women saying things like that. It boggles the mind.

Great example: Man calls cops over "hostile" house cat, after hiding himself and his wife and child in bedroom. 

My 66 year old diabetic mother just got into a rather nasty fight with a semi-feral cat last week and survived with a few scratches. Yes she went to the hospital, but only a couple days later after her hand swelled up. She's fine now. 

This guy, however, had to call the cops.

:shakes head:

Message to wussyman: Find the nearest, tallest bridge and do society a favor before you put your wife and child in danger when they have to protect you from a real threat. 

Sorry. I'm in one of those moods today.

~Shane

Quote - Great example: Man calls cops over "hostile" house cat, after hiding himself and his wife and child in bedroom. 

My 66 year old diabetic mother just got into a rather nasty fight with a semi-feral cat last week and survived with a few scratches. Yes she went to the hospital, but only a couple days later after her hand swelled up. She's fine now. 

This guy, however, had to call the cops.

:shakes head:

Message to wussyman: Find the nearest, tallest bridge and do society a favor before you put your wife and child in danger when they have to protect you from a real threat. 

Sorry. I'm in one of those moods today.

 

~Shane

LOLOL. 

Cats can be tough. Our family had one. He looked a little like a bobcat and was almost the size of one (over 35 lbs and not fat, in his prime). He got shot on three occasions, and we had to take him to the vet to have bullets removed. Twice it was just BB's, but once it was a verifiably large lump of lead that got lodged in his tail.

We left him alone for a few days and asked my sister's boyfriend to drop in and feed him. The man returned with numerous deep, long scratches down his back. Apparently, the cat did not care for him so much (the cat was a better judge of character than my sister). Several times we came home to find loose dogs roaming around, so from the inside of our car, we would call the cat to come chase them away. Which he did faithfully. The only time I saw him run away from dogs was when a pack of them chased him, and he was 18 years old.

When our apartment was broken into, both we and the police who investigated were surprised that nothing was stolen. The cops suggested that "something must have interrupted" the burglars, causing them to leave. Hah. It wouldn't surprise me to find out it had been our cat. :D

Still... despite his flaws, my sister's bf STILL fed the cat. He wasn't going to let a few scratches deter him. This was 1987. So I suppose your point is made. :D

According to a biker friend, aside from the noose thingie that animal control uses, the best thing for handling a feral cat is some leather motorcyle gauntlets.

Quote - As a designer, I can only say what motivates me or what I find interesting.  Being completely honest, I find it more interesting to design female clothes, female accessories, female morphs and so on.  I get bored making male stuff and I find that most male clothes are just variations on the same thing -- it's just not interesting to me.  You have a few base items and you can really get away with texturing for variety.  I'm talking contemporary clothes and not sci-fi/historical/fantasy.

That doesn't mean that occasionally I get a wild hair or I won't make some cargo shorts next week.  It just means that in general, it's just more fun and interesting to make stuff for the gals.

And this perfectly encapsulates why clothing is "all hookerware, all the time" in most Poser storefronts.  I am frustrated because I have outgrown the vendors imaginations.  Too much content is just the same stuff, over and over and over.  Fortunately, this isn't the case with the folks that build props - which is where more and more of my money is going to.

BTW Netherworks, it may not be interesting or exciting, but I really could use updated Hair Control System modules for the G2 figures and Miki 2 - I'll buy them again if necessary, but I really hate having to keep a separate copy of Poser Pro (2008) on my system just to rework hair.

I'm sorry to hear that you are frustrated, but really... people are going to make what they are inclined to make.  It is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby/career or whatever you are doing it for.  Otherwise, they are a great many other things that could be done with your time or other professions to choose where a boss can dictate what work you should do.

I've tried to do male content and "regular, normal" type clothes at one time and not only did it fail but it failed hard to where it wasn't worth the effort.  This was pre-Genesis, pre-Generation 4 and pretty much pre-DS too, so there weren't as many figures to choose from.  Maybe things would be different now?  No idea.  I kind of doubt it though.  Like I said, I occasionally make the attempt.

As far as the gobs of slutwear or whatnot, maybe it wouldn't be so saturated if it was made for different figures and not just the one -- "she that must not be named".  That's certainly not up to me though.  A big problem is a LONG cycle for the same figure generation.  If new figures aren't adopted, by the masses, every so many years, to allow a new cycle of content, this is what happens - that speaks more to "lets make more bikinis" than lack of male clothes though.

It's kind of OT, but I could do a dat for those figures that would allow them to be recognized and be eligible for partial conversions, at the very least.  I don't see reworking the entire thing for figures that are outdated, though (that's not a critique of the figures you choose, just that you'd be the only buyer and that's not really viable in lieu of the work).