Autoconforming:  There are different community meanings for this.  If you mean old system where "Figure xx" and number references have been removed from :xx (where xx is a number).  We don't need this anymore.  Save the clothing back in the library to get the clothing back to normal, reload, and use "Include morphs" in the BODY properties tab instead.

Then when you're dealing with clothing, untick the box if it's giving you trouble, when using Copy Morphs From.

And yes, I'm only talking about roughly Poser 9+ usage.  If you're making things so they work back to circa 2001, you'll have to deal with additional issues and caveats. ;)

As I've said (too) frequently, I'll step back a couple of versions if possible but I'm not going back to olden days, no thanks.  There's a reason software gets advanced and tweaked and IMHO, you have to reasonably stay within a couple versions of what is contemporary.

I am talking about the viewpoint of the end-user. We deal with lots of content which is still made the old fashioned way. In these cases you have to dial in the new morphs manually. You can often not use the poser method here because the cr2 has been hacked in such a way that it competes with the poser method. I can show you enough examples of this if you want to see them. 

It is all about compatibility. Supporting new content in older versions up to a point is perfectly possible. New software not supporting old content is a real problem.

Up to now poser supports (almost) all old content and I would not like to have that changed. (although the content providers may very well have a different opinion here)

I welcome new figures and content made for the new technologies and hope they catch on. 

wim, I've done 10+ years of content and now geting closer to 15 years.  I am well aware of the examples - I'm not discrediting what you are illustrating with your post...

I'm also an end user (I do purchase and use content made by others).  If you purchased content, you don't have to leave it as is.  I think we often, as end users, customize content to suit our needs.  I just am illustrating a means to make it work more flexibly by just saving it and reloading it.  And there are no guarantees that it will work for every single thing out there, just something that can be tried...

New versions of Poser should absolutely support old hacks/methods/yadda, if possible.  I didn't infer that either.  I've done quite a few of those hacks myself. :)

Some autoconforming content is very difficult to change. I will PM you with examples, no need to go into it here.

I update and change content all the time, but some of this is just too complicated to do to avoid a couple of dial spins.

The content provider remark was more meant as a general statement that content usually does not have an update cycle. This in contrast to the software

Quote - zbrush, yeah about to save money for it. just a little bit afraid of the step learning curve and the resulting frustration. Blender is free, but without a rhyme or reason of the UI to me. Autodesk, I am not handsome enough, to earn some quick money,in order to affort it. ;)

zBrush has http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/ to help make a stepless learning curve ,it's painless & easy to learn zBrush.
even in ZBrush System Specs they say Pen Tablet: Wacom or Wacom compatible.
if you ask on the zBrush forums they recommend.
http://www.wacom.com/en/us/creative/intuos-pro-m 
or better.
a lot use smaller tablets also.

Blender has a lot of tutorails and in a week or two ya get the concept of Blender work flow.it's easy and fun.
if ya going to use blender sculpting part ya need a wacom.

Blender works a lot like Lightwave & Softimage.
the good part is once ya learn a main app it's easy to pick up on any of the others.

The generation 5 & 6 figures are nice models and while I purchased them I havnt used them much as they are simply not that much of an improvement.

Mouth & Joints where improved but they still just don't look right.

Plus a lot of the gen 5 & 6 content is DazStudio only (I use poserpro) DSON helps but as not everything uses it then whats the point.

In the end I go back to version 4 or even 3 figures.

Would V4 still be available for download from DAZ? 

Quote - Would V4 still be available for download from DAZ? 

from my account I can still download any thing I've every boult from V2 to V6.

in DAZ Stores I can't find V2,V3 but V4 is still sold & on sale for $6.00.

What most don't realize is that the majority of the people in the community (DS & Poser), only want to load premade content, pose premade content and then hit render. At it's heart DS has always been a free player for these people, which is one of the reasons SM released Debut, a cut down version of Poser with most of the tools removed/blocked that these people avoid/ignore in the full version.

It's these people that make a figure popular, if that figure has a lot of content available at release then it will do well, especially if more and more content appears each month. DAZ have known this pretty much from the start, after all their company was built on selling content for their figures, unlike everybody else they actually commission vendors to make content for their figures, just so they have content available at launch.

This is why most other figures fail, little to no premade content available, now for most of you diehards that isn't an issue, WW, XD or the new fitting room, but for the majority that's scary sh*t and something to avoid, so they stick to what they know.

Quote - What most don't realize is that the majority of the people in the community (DS & Poser), only want to load premade content, pose premade content and then hit render. At it's heart DS has always been a free player for these people, which is one of the reasons SM released Debut, a cut down version of Poser with most of the tools removed/blocked that these people avoid/ignore in the full version.

It's these people that make a figure popular, if that figure has a lot of content available at release then it will do well, especially if more and more content appears each month. DAZ have known this pretty much from the start, after all their company was built on selling content for their figures, unlike everybody else they actually commission vendors to make content for their figures, just so they have content available at launch.

This is why most other figures fail, little to no premade content available, now for most of you diehards that isn't an issue, WW, XD or the new fitting room, but for the majority that's scary sh*t and something to avoid, so they stick to what they know.

Exactly. Those are the P10 users. That's why I'd like to make the difference to the PoserPro users. Just give the advanced tools to the Pro user, those who are happy with a V4 pose and render can save a lot of money by getting the next Poser11.

Quote - Exactly. Those are the P10 users. That's why I'd like to make the difference to the PoserPro users. Just give the advanced tools to the Pro user, those who are happy with a V4 pose and render can save a lot of money by getting the next Poser11.

The only problem with that, and you see it occasionally when a debut user posts in the forum, is when the user has some issue -- the props aren't rendering properly, or they are getting splotches, or the hair is coming out the wrong color, or the clothing is showing some minor pokethru -- and the the debut user is left with the answer, "Well, if you had Poser, you could change such and such in the material room [or whatever]".

If you take away all the tools, you take away problem solving. Most people may not use the tools very often. But occasionally, they're going to have to because the content available for purchase isn't perfect for every version of Poser and occasionally tweaks are necessary.

Quote - Exactly. Those are the P10 users. That's why I'd like to make the difference to the PoserPro users. Just give the advanced tools to the Pro user, those who are happy with a V4 pose and render can save a lot of money by getting the next Poser11.

The only problem with that, and you see it occasionally when a debut user posts in the forum, is when the user has some issue -- the props aren't rendering properly, or they are getting splotches, or the hair is coming out the wrong color, or the clothing is showing some minor pokethru -- and the the debut user is left with the answer, "Well, if you had Poser, you could change such and such in the material room [or whatever]".

If you take away all the tools, you take away problem solving. Most people may not use the tools very often. But occasionally, they're going to have to because the content available for purchase isn't perfect for every version of Poser and occasionally tweaks are necessary -- for just about all users.

"from my account I can still download any thing I've every boult from V2 to V6.

in DAZ Stores I can't find V2,V3 but V4 is still sold & on sale for $6.00."

Thanks!  Now if i can just remeber my username and password at DAZ.

BTW,  i took your advice and upgraded from Poser6 to Poser Pro 2014.

Quote - What most don't realize is that the majority of the people in the community (DS & Poser), only want to load premade content, pose premade content and then hit render.

I agree

Most people who buy stuff in the Daz and Poser stores want  'ease of use'.

They have never opened the hair room or setup room. They only open the joint editor to zero a figure. They use pre-made poses, pre-made skin textures, pre-made models, pre-made expressions, pre-made sculpting body morphs, pre-made pythong scripts, pre-made utilities to make pre-made stuff even easier to use.

They did not buy Poser to learn physics or engineering or computer science. They just want to render their fantasy image and post it and share it with other like-minded 'artists'.

Vicki4 doesn't need a DSON to work in DAZ Studio or Poser. She has 8 billion terabytes of pre-made content both free and for sale. Not just skimpy wear either. She has all kinds of Victorian dresses and office suits and almost any kind of clothing you can possibly think of.

I don't think it really matters if the character has a lot of content at the start. It matters more... to the buyer at least... if content keeps coming at a continuous rate.... that is the most important selling point.

Apollo Maximus was going well... for a male character. If it had been Apollonia... a female character... I bet she'd still be hopping nowadays.

What hurts Dawn is she only works in Poser 9 or higher... not older Poser and not DAZ 3. Some long-term DAZ users have not upgraded to DAZ 4... for the same reasons folks from Poser 8 and older have not bought Poser 9 and up... it forces the user to have to change the 'ease of use' they came accustomed to.

I know folks get tired of these neverending posts about the changes in the past couple years... but it is because there is a huge group of folks who would LOVE to jump on the bandwagon... but you have to use that DSON and import this and make sure you have this thing clicked 'on' and do the hokey pokey and turn yourself around. Or you can try to learn DAZ 4 with their library on the left and apparently the same library on the right... and it seems to create a thumbnail for every single thing you ever bought and there's smart content and dumb content and genesis this and genesis that...

That's why I just load V4 in and do an instant scene. And wish like hell Genesis could do this without me having to learn Poser all over again.

We buyers who only whose purchase pre-made content were WANTING to use Genesis. This is the major frustration and why these threads always pop up. It is damn frustrating. Poser 3 thru 8 never had this problem with the Vicki1 thru 4.

Genesis 1 was around for 5 minutes... this also hurt their competition with the V4 hangers on.

V4 works in any DAZ studio version and any Poser version and she has endless content... this is why she's still hanging on like a champ.

My two cents that turned into 4 cents... sorry for the long windedness

Quote -  

What hurts Dawn is she only works in Poser 9 or higher... not older Poser and not DAZ 3. Some long-term DAZ users have not upgraded to DAZ 4... for the same reasons folks from Poser 8 and older have not bought Poser 9 and up... it forces the user to have to change the 'ease of use' they came accustomed to.

 

I agree with everything you said but if this is the reason that folks have are not buying into the latest version of Poser, and I accept it may well be, I think it is a shame.  There is so much in the latest versions of Poser that is a real benefit and can be used without having to change from the ease of use.  I use V4WM and although I play with some of the materials there I find so many things that make life a lot easier and improvements for very little extra effort.

How tall is V4?

Quote - How tall is V4?

I think if I remember rightly she comes out at a relative 6 foot 2 inches or there abouts.  I have scaled my V4WM to 5 foot using the universal sizing tool and made her petite, figure wise.  That immediately makes her different from roughtly 90% of the V4 based figures.  Also I do not see why heroines should always be tall and have ballons attached to their chest.

 "Also I do not see why heroines should always be tall and have ballons attached to their chest."

Yeah the ballons do make her look cartoonish.

What hurts Dawn is she only works in Poser 9 or higher... not older Poser and not DAZ 3. Some long-term DAZ users have not upgraded to DAZ 4... for the same reasons folks from Poser 8 and older have not bought Poser 9 and up... it forces the user to have to change the 'ease of use' they came accustomed to.

Couple of points, and just my opinion, not to offend/berate/etc.  If you are happy with Poser 5-8, as they are and they do what you want them to do, then that's completely fine :)  However...

You can't have new program features without a new version of the program.  A WM figure can have a spherically-rigged counterpart but you are doing two things: you are yet again dividing content and there would be DS 4, Poser 9+ and Legacy splits, which is triple work for standard items and then complete re-rigging of other content which previously needed tricks and tweaks (capes, skirts, etc).  Second point: you are detracting from newer features to settle for P4 style features.

You could go with only a spherically rigged figure but, again, nothing new to see.  No real tech improvements.  There's no need for P9+ to exist at all.

We had the same issues back when Poser 5 came out and everyone was going to stay with the P4/Pro-Pack features.  Folks avoided Material Room nodes, the Cloth Room and the Hair Room.  The legacy stuff just kind of held us down.  Things really didn't start catching up until we got into Poser 6 and more-so when we got into Poser 7.

At least on the Poser side of things, there's no loss of ease of use in Poser 9+.  There are new things to explore, but figures bend like figures.  Conent conforms like it has conformed. Content is loaded like it has always been loaded.

In fact, some of this is a lot easier now:  You can go to the library, highlight 10 clothing items and drag them to the scene, release your mouse right on the figure and they all conform automatically.

The direct manipulation tool makes it easier than ever to bend body parts.

I could probably list off many more "quality of life" improvements that are in there and that's not even touching the technical tools like the Morph Brush, Grouping Tool and so on that have been massively improved.

Quote -  "Also I do not see why heroines should always be tall and have ballons attached to their chest."

Yeah the ballons do make her look cartoonish.

Well since where talking about cartoons.

Batman,Superman,are draw buy making there heads 5 eyes wide 7 eyes tall.
and ya draw there body 8 heads tall.

so that's 8*7=56
a human eye is about a inch tall
So if you put Batman,Superman in the real world that makes them 4 feet 8 inches tall.

Vicky follows the 5 eyes wide 7 eyes tall 8 heads tall art rule.

It's a Artistic trick that's been around for a long long time.

Quote - It's a Artistic trick that's been around for a long long time.

I believe some Renaissance fellow measured a bunch of sculptures and paintings and came up with the numbers. His results were popularized by Da Vinci, but these particular ideal proportions had been around since the ancient Greeks.

@Netherworks -- Exactly. The only reason I can think of to stick with a version of Poser before 9 is that your machine is too old to run it, or you keep missing the sales on Amazon. Even the cost of a copy of Poser 9 can't be much of a barrier -- it's a couple of outfits for V4.

I can't imagine using Poser 8 or older any more. 

PP2014 was absolutely worth the upgrade price to me. And I don't use half of its features.

I don't know why people resist improvements to software, unless their hardware won't support it, or the software is far too expensive. Given how much people spend on content -- Pre-Poser 9 content, at that -- I find it hard to believe the price is what's stopping most of them.

I agree that at the very least Poser 9 comes around at a rather affordable price. :)  Again, if someone is perfectly happy with Poser 7 or whatnot, use Poser 7.  However, except for creative products (and even there you can only go so far), you are locked to those technologies.

Apollo Maximus was going well... for a male character. If it had been Apollonia... a female character... I bet she'd still be hopping nowadays.

*Perhaps a little late to react, but I'm pretty sure I have an Apollonia morph somewhere in my runtime. Someone made an Apollonia morph for Apollo, but she was rather chubby, just like Apollo was, so perhaps she didn't appeal to people. Anyhow... I have never seen any clothing for her.

I have my own thoughts about scaling: The average height of an european women is about 170cm (5 foot and 8 inches) and the proportions are 7.5 heads. When you scale down or scale up a model, keep in mind that the size of the brain and the organs won't change very much, so the head and the torso will be relatively larger with smaller people and smaller with bigger people. and the width of womens hips won't change for the obvious reason of giving birth to children.

When you look at really big people you will notice they have bigger jaws and little people (and children!) have often large foreheads. The size of eyes doesn't change very much when you grow older. thats why children have such big eyes.

And don't forget artistic proportions are just idealistic proportions and have nothing to do with the real world, put some women of the same heigth next to each other, and all the proportions will differ. It's the average that will appeal to the viewer so that's where these artistic proportions come from. And also don't forget that pictures in magazines are always been manipulated.

So simply scaling down a figure isn't realistic: I often use a picture as background and scale every bodypart to fit the picture (I use outline or wireframe view) to get a model with realistic proportions. With poserpro 2014 you can unhide the hidden parameters but for older poserversions there are python scripts to achieve that.

best regards,

Bopper.

I have been wanting to upgrade from my Poser 7 for so long but with all of these darn sales for V4/M4 going on at a consistant rate I haven't been able to.  ;)  

Quote - I have been wanting to upgrade from my Poser 7 for so long but with all of these darn sales for V4/M4 going on at a consistant rate I haven't been able to.  ;)  

Hahaha. They wear down your resistance, don't they? :D

Quote - > Quote - I have been wanting to upgrade from my Poser 7 for so long but with all of these darn sales for V4/M4 going on at a consistant rate I haven't been able to.  ;)  

Hahaha. They wear down your resistance, don't they? :D

Wore it down then stomped on it quite a few times. :)  Lol

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I have been wanting to upgrade from my Poser 7 for so long but with all of these darn sales for V4/M4 going on at a consistant rate I haven't been able to.  ;)  

Hahaha. They wear down your resistance, don't they? :D

Wore it down then stomped on it quite a few times. :)  Lol

Lol I feel your pain. Doesn't help that pretty much all of the main stores I shop at are on sale... at the same freakin' time. >.<

Batman,Superman,are draw buy making there heads 5 eyes wide 7 eyes tall.
and ya draw there body 8 heads tall.

so that's 8*7=56
a human eye is about a inch tall
So if you put Batman,Superman in the real world that makes them 4 feet 8 inches tall.

Vicky follows the 5 eyes wide 7 eyes tall 8 heads tall art rule.

It's a Artistic trick that's been around for a long long time."

Lol!  That's what i'm struggling with.  The balance between the golden ratio,  superhero and real world proportions.

the bloxs are 7 eyes tall,7 eyes deep ,10 eyes wide.

and if you want to continue this conversation

can we continue it here ?

Quote - What hurts Dawn is she only works in Poser 9 or higher... not older Poser and not DAZ 3. Some long-term DAZ users have not upgraded to DAZ 4... for the same reasons folks from Poser 8 and older have not bought Poser 9 and up... it forces the user to have to change the 'ease of use' they came accustomed to.

Couple of points, and just my opinion, not to offend/berate/etc.  If you are happy with Poser 5-8, as they are and they do what you want them to do, then that's completely fine :)  However...

You can't have new program features without a new version of the program.  A WM figure can have a spherically-rigged counterpart but you are doing two things: you are yet again dividing content and there would be DS 4, Poser 9+ and Legacy splits, which is triple work for standard items and then complete re-rigging of other content which previously needed tricks and tweaks (capes, skirts, etc).  Second point: you are detracting from newer features to settle for P4 style features.

You could go with only a spherically rigged figure but, again, nothing new to see.  No real tech improvements.  There's no need for P9+ to exist at all.

We had the same issues back when Poser 5 came out and everyone was going to stay with the P4/Pro-Pack features.  Folks avoided Material Room nodes, the Cloth Room and the Hair Room.  The legacy stuff just kind of held us down.  Things really didn't start catching up until we got into Poser 6 and more-so when we got into Poser 7.

At least on the Poser side of things, there's no loss of ease of use in Poser 9+.  There are new things to explore, but figures bend like figures.  Conent conforms like it has conformed. Content is loaded like it has always been loaded.

In fact, some of this is a lot easier now:  You can go to the library, highlight 10 clothing items and drag them to the scene, release your mouse right on the figure and they all conform automatically.

The direct manipulation tool makes it easier than ever to bend body parts.

I could probably list off many more "quality of life" improvements that are in there and that's not even touching the technical tools like the Morph Brush, Grouping Tool and so on that have been massively improved.

When Poser Pro 2010 came out fully 64 bit... THAT was the absolute dream most Poser users had been waiting for.

Can you remember trying to render complicated scenes in Poser 4 thru 6? If you had a scene with 4 or more DAZ figures you basically had to layer render every scene. Otherwise you'd risk Poser just dying halfway thru a render.

Most skin breakthrough is far more easier and faster to fix with photoshop. Why spend hours and hours trying to learn the morphing tool? Screen? Surface? size of brush? Why? When photoshop has a magic brush.

3DSmax and Cinema4d and Lightwave... these are motorcycles. Poser is a bicycle. We're trying to add a motor to the bicycle. How about we embrace the glory of the bicycle. The 3dsmax crowd has complained about Poser for years because Poser offers something they detest... and this thing is the VERY thing that made most of us get involved with Poser in the first place.

I'll stop - I'm done - clap your hands - screw this forum interaction. I like to argue more than contribute. Back to lurking.

I bought Poser pro 2012. I'll buy Pro 2014... to support the Poser staff. But to be damned honest to actually use them would be more of a pain in the rear than continuing to use Pro 2010 which I will. But, I won't bore folks anymore with these boring rants of mine

What makes V4 so popular?

At this point in time, nothing more than inertia. Vendors have had 8 years to work out a quicky (for them) workflow, have learned the gotcha's of P4 level tech, and gotten into a rut, for lack of a more politic way to put it. Users have nigh onto a decade of content they've purchased and downloaded, and frankly are probably scared to start over (as they did with each previous figure from the supplier) and be forced to figure out just how much they've spent over time on that one figure. Neither state is sustainable for much longer. But people are scared.

Moving on means learning new things. Tossing aside old hacks that aren't needed anymore. Changing methodologies. Classic conservative mentality run amuck; It's new, It's different, I don't wanna....

It's not that the old figures are 'bad'. Just the methodologies used in them are seriously outdated. Mesh doesn't have an expiration date; it can be rerigged, upgraded, and be quite useable with more modern systems (one reason I'm trying to teach myself rigging and weightmapping; lots of mesh in the library.... :P ).

New figures get slammed because a success there would destroy the status quo. But time is on the side of the innovators. Within a year or so, we'll have 3 generations of Poser with the newer tech. Since the split with DAZ, the reasons to enshrine the P4 era tech are gone, gone, gone. The g-thing does not work natively in Poser, so it is essentially irrelevant. New users tend to get the latest version....which means P9-10. So there is a slow, but inevitable growth based solely around what the modern application is capable of. The wise vendors have been getting their toes wet for awhile now; if standard business ideas apply, those who do not adapt and move forward will be crushed when the old paradigm collapses. It is going to happen, and those who haven't moved forward will get left behind and have a doubly hard task trying to catch up.

Oh, Coleman, I'd disagree. Poser is the motorcycle; Max and Lightwave and Cinema are the packed out sports cars. And considering that this little low cost tool of ours is being used to make the likes of RWBY, I'd say it's a fairly powerful little tool for its size (Ghods I want that Optitrack system so bad.....) ;D

As always, it's not the size of the tool, it's the skill of the tool user.  

Quote -  "Also I do not see why heroines should always be tall and have ballons attached to their chest."

Yeah the ballons do make her look cartoonish.

Stephanie 4, a morph/scaling of V4 is more realistically proportioned, and she is currently $6 as well, as is V4 Morphs ++, which are very useful.

Here's a table of Poser figure heights in various scaling systems...

http://www.morphography.uk.vu/scaleobj.html

Oops; I hit Delete Post instead of EDIT!! :lol:

An additional software factor is that Poser 8 is not compatible with IE 11.  I wish SM had offered a cheapie upgrade path to Poser 9 for those users who suddenly found that Poser no longer works on their system after a Windows Update, as it wouldn't be good to lose those users...

Well just like every thing else Optitrack system has it's goods and bads.
Really made for a crew ,If ya had to use it buy ya self.
There would be a hole lot of hassle.

Depends on your setup. If you go with the 6 camera portable setup, then sure, you have to recalibrate your capture field every time you move. If you go with the 8 cam minimum cube setup on a hard rack, no need. While the portable rig would require setup and calibration every time, it would also allow you to go to a dance studio for capture there, or a dojo, or a high school gym. Being able to go to the source, instead of trying to pay the source to come to you can be a big benefit in a small studio arrangement. As for clean up of the capture data, you would have that with any mocap solution. You aren't going to find that kind of capability for $8k with Gypsy or any other solution. And if you go up to the 2nd level camera (the Mark 17, I think), you get enough resolution to do finger capture. Aside from that, the software uses a dongle, so you can install on a  dedicated portable and you workstation, and just move your liscence. Mocap doesn't replace keyframing, but the hassle is worth it for the performance details you get from not wasting time trying to key non repetetive idle motions, for example. Or the performance and uniqueness a semi decent actor can give a character.

Can't speak for others but, for me, what makes me choose Daz figures over others is the Morphs, Morph++ offers a huge arrange of possibilities.

Also, despite not having fantasy figures in my gallery, I render a lot of Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, werecreatures and the like, and V4/M4 offer a wide variety of morphs and products for that that I don't see in any other figures.

I'd switch to Genesis, I would even go through the process of converting V4 clothing to Genesis, but despite the DSON plugin, I'm not happy with how Genesis works inside Poser.

So, I'm staying with V4/M4 for now.

"for now how about we just use the 8 head tall thing

the bloxs are 7 eyes tall,7 eyes deep ,10 eyes wide.

and if you want to continue this conversation

can we continue it here ?"

Sounds good!  See ya there and sorry for the late reply.