Of course, it might help if we could get some actual "error-free" humans to base the figures on. So we'd know what we were shooting for.

Niether would I slut my muse out to you philistines nor

would  I post my mesh for public review

"Of course, it might help if we could get some actual "error-free" humans to base the figures on."

COUGH :biggrin:

@ Earl

I have ONE error free figure and a second one with ONE unrepairable error.

The error free figure is based on Roxie where it took the best part of 2 months of free time to find, isolate, and repair what had to be done.

The other figure has a single issue left but that is so deep I had to cassify it as unrepairable but usable.

Then I went looking for the "next" figure to do.

Sydney : Object file is not symmetrical and beyond repair.

**Alyson original **:  Looks terrible, asymmetrical magnets, some rigging errors, and the arms are way too short and require a ton of work to get the rigging right.

Alyson 2 : Oh dear oh dear where to start? ? Arms are ok, but at the cost that the object file lost ALL Symmetry, and there are "read and smile" 5566 loose vertex flying around her welds.

Miki4? Ok, but I am not a denstist. Would be worth to repair at 1/3 of the poly count.

I might have to take a second look at Jessy.

Oh, and all of the above have the worst magnets imginable.

So? I have one error free, and end user friendly Roxie, and Rex.
I also got them down to 6, easy to manage, material zones.

• head
• body
• lashes
• eyes
• teeth
• nails

Oh, and some of you are right : I have a BIG mouth.

But as far as figures go? ? I tread all companies the same.

None have managed to get an error free figure out the door.

@ pumeco ( and others)

2 years, yes you read right, 2 years AFTER the release of Genesis ONE!!!!!!!

2 years after release, I downloaded Genesis 1 for a test and me myself and I where the first to discover the talking toes and finger tips the first day I study her. That was 2 years after her initial release.

That covers the testing part , OK?

I do not "use" figures, I study them.

Left Roxie => To right => Mine
Roxie with one of my faces and some math room work.

Gents, I do not have to "proof" anything any more.

Those that "know" me, "know" enough.

Vilters, what you are describing is a character.  It would be a bad thing if a default figure came with a base mesh with the breasts that you describe, indeed, bad if it comes as a character at all.   However, since most see a figure as presented by its CR2, it would be nice for a base figure to come with  morphs that do what you wish and have that morph preset to 1.0 by default.

At least for me, it is easier to morph larger than smaller.  I would prefer a base mesh that is flat chested with enough polys there to support relatively large shapes.  And as Zev0 sorta says,  the way the mesh is laid out should follow major muscle groups, boney protrusions, tendons etc.  Morphers shoud not have to guess where they are.

The base mesh should be developed with morphing in mind.  The figure as presented should be morphed into an attractive character.  The problem with the presentation morph being added to other character morphs can be solved by a separate Off pose and or the pose files producing another character can turn the presentation character off.

vilters : If you going to use Poser you just half to accept how things are.

The things ya don't like about Sydney ,Alyson original ,Alyson 2 ,Miki4 etc etc
would not be a probleam for you in main apps.

DAZ Poser is for speed so you can have a character right now with a few clicks.
If you want perfection.
You could easly make your version of the perfect mesh in a main App.

At the risk of derailing the thread (really I'm not trying to), What is the big deal about figure semetry, or lack there of? RL people aren't semetrical. Why do CG people have to be? People keep bringing it up but I've never seen anyone say why it's needed.

"At the risk of derailing the thread (really I'm not trying to), What is the big deal about figure semetry, or lack there of? RL people aren't semetrical. Why do CG people have to be? People keep bringing it up but I've never seen anyone say why it's needed."

True, no one is perfectly symmetrical, but from a 'would be developer' point of view, it's absolutely essential otherwise it's not possible to work on the figure and create perfectly mirrored morphs/features etc.

Note I said "would be developer" because I'm not one.  I was going to put the time in and work on a really nice character for Roxie, but the mirroring on the figure doesn't work properly with the morph brush, so I gave up on it.  Some might say don't worry about it, but seriously, if I create a product it would bother me too much if I had to knowingly put out something I knew was subpar.

It's basically just taking pride in what you do.

The part where humans are not symmetrical, you do that after you know the base is perfect, or it's likely to mess-up sooner or later. If something is out even the slightest in symmetry it can cause all sorts of annoying problems which frankly, the content vendors should not have to put up with.

symmetry just makes life easy ;-) for cgi

true most peeps are not quite perfect ;-) remember seeing a telly prog once where they showed pics of peeps ~ some photoshopped to be completly symmetrical !! by and large the assymmetrical peeps won rofl most of the "judges" thought the symmetrical peeps looked "shifty"!

guess thats why theres a beauty spot, but more then one is arrrrggggghhh ;-)

no offence to anyone who is truely symmetrical rofl

Losing symmetry is about the worst thing that can happen to a modeler.

Most modelers (check the youtube video's on how to model clothes for figures) Most modelers use the mirror function to build clothes.

Most modelers use the mirror function to build morphs for figures.
Or they check the "X" mirror to be sure the other side follows.
That is also why the "mirror" was added to the morph brush in Poser.

it cuts the workload in half.

But? When the figure is not symmetrical, all this becomes impossible.

Same goes for rigging, and Weight-and Bulge mapping.
Same goes for the fitting room when a rig is projected into the cloting.
Same goes for copy-left to right.

Losing symmetry in a figure is a nightmare for content creators.

Right up to the moment when the content creator WANTS to add non symmetrical items like buttons or folds, or uneven left-right items. Right up to that very last moment he/she will try to maintain symmetry at all cost.
But this is at the very-very last stage of the building process.

Lose symmetry in a figure, and basically you have lost the figure.
It takes twice the time to build for a non symmetrical figure.

Quote - At the risk of derailing the thread (really I'm not trying to), What is the big deal about figure semetry, or lack there of? RL people aren't semetrical. Why do CG people have to be? People keep bringing it up but I've never seen anyone say why it's needed.

Characters don't half to be symmetrical.

Symmetrical characters can be easier to work on depending on what ya doing.

99.9% of all undressed SubDed characters are symmetrical.
displacement map for a girl symmetrical
displacement map for a male bodybuilder probably not symmetrical,but the base mesh is.

Game meses the cloths are made in to the mesh, so the mesh probably not symmetrical.

Look at my Romans here. LOL.

All is in one figure.

The costume was build and uv-mapped, and test-rigged in Poser perhaps 20-30 times, to check and finetune.
The process was easy because Rex and Roxie are symmetrical, and I have a solid workflow from Blender to Poser to Blender to Poser untill satisfied.

Only after I was absolutely sure that it would behave as required did I add the Speer and the Sword.

these Romans costumes do NOT behave on other figures.
Sydney => Her object file and magnets are NOT symmetrical.
Alyson => Because her magnets are NOT symmetrical
Alyson2 => Because her object file AND her magnets are NOT symmetrical
Miki4 => Because her magnets are NOT symmetrical.

You can not build for something that is not symmetrical.
Certainly for magnets, you never know what is gonna happen when bend.
You can build for the left side, or you can build for the right side.
But no content creator is gonna invest the time to correct for both sides. (or you make it hugely oversize LOL.)

So, ha-ha-, as you know by now, magnets in figures are the second biggest nightmare for content creators.
Certainly when they are NOT symmetrical.

Rex and Roxie are the very first SM figures to be fully symmetrical in object file and magnets.

"

At the risk of derailing the thread (really I'm not trying to), What is the big deal about figure semetry, or lack there of? RL people aren't semetrical. Why do CG people have to be? People keep bringing it up but I've never seen anyone say why it's needed.

 "

My guess would be for clothes making, and also when you applyreverse poses ie use a script to put the right arm pose on the left arm.

"Losing symmetry is about the worst thing that can happen to a modeler.*

Most modelers (check the youtube video's on how to model clothes for figures) Most modelers use the mirror function to build clothes.

Most modelers use the mirror function to build morphs for figures.
Or they check the "X" mirror to be sure the other side follows.
That is also why the "mirror" was added to the morph brush in Poser.

it cuts the workload in half.

But? When the figure is not symmetrical, all this becomes impossible.

Same goes for rigging, and Weight-and Bulge mapping.
Same goes for the fitting room when a rig is projected into the cloting.
Same goes for copy-left to right.

Losing symmetry in a figure is a nightmare for content creators.

Right up to the moment when the content creator WANTS to add non symmetrical items like buttons or folds, or uneven left-right items. Right up to that very last moment he/she will try to maintain symmetry at all cost.
But this is at the very-very last stage of the building process.

Lose symmetry in a figure, and basically you have lost the figure.
It takes twice the time to build for a non symmetrical figure."

Spot-on, Tony, my feelings exactly, I absolutely agree with this 100%

From where I drifted another thread

Quote - How about a kickstart on a discernably Male figure project on the scale of Apollo Max or M4 with Morph++.  maybe Rex fixes upgrades clothes. Say $80 from 250 crowd fund group plus Rendo sales that's $20,000+

I just end up in whatever camp works with the budget.

When I returned to 3d in July, I went with Daz Studio and then Genesis 2 because of price.

Was a little slow today or I'd be giving Poser a chance again... seeing how there was a thing and then a non-thing all sudden like.

If I'd had Poser 10... I might have ended up on a different path.

One benefit I've got is I can easily pull in content made for V4/M4 and Genesis 1 onto a G2M or G2F figure.

I think to do that in Poser I'd have to get the pro version. And I'm not sure if there is a way to pull Genesis 2 content back down to V4/M4.

As for the Smith Micro Figures - I'm really baffled about why the Poser users don't seem to care for or use them. I've not seen them since Poser 7 though - have they not improved in all that time?

males tend to drift left or right

when u aint got it  modelers run like heck ;-)

ps liked Apollo but hes a bugger to model for !! he shoulda had a very very cold morph rofl

this will sound daft 'cos I only just got p14

steph was my "old" fav Sid is the girl I'd fall in love with

yet I keep using Roxie ;-) blame vilters lol

love the mirror in blender

"As for the Smith Micro Figures - I'm really baffled about why the Poser users don't seem to care for or use them. I've not seen them since Poser 7 though - have they not improved in all that time?"

Those older figures are still included, Poser 10's Rex was pretty much doomed by default because he's male, but I'm extremely surprised that Poser 10's Roxie doesn't get used more - I find that really baffling - she's a really good sculpt, she looks very human to me, easy the best figure in the Poser Runtime, at least I personally think so anyway.

I just searched "Roxie" in the galleries and it returned only 62 images total.  That's sixty two images, I mean wow, I just don't get that.  Maybe people are just too set in their ways with their favourite figures to bother with any others.

Hi

As you say, it's all about the art.

I'm using Poser Pro 2014 but I still use the Jessi and James models for almost everything.

That's what I've made all my textures for and I'm not going to do everything all over again every time a new figure comes along.

It's about whether it looks right to you or not.

I think that the Jessi and James models work perfect for the animated videos I do.

I'm not going for photo realism, I'm trying to capture a certain style and I think I'm doing that, so I'm happy with what I do.

Mike

Quote - I'm using Poser Pro 2014 but I still use the Jessi and James models for almost everything.

Mike

You OutLaw you

Quote - If you've got some background in using DS -- even from four years ago -- then using it now shouldn't create such a barrier.

I spent my first three years noodling around exclusively with DS.  The last version I worked with was 3.1 Advanced.  I recently installed 4.6 Pro to experiment with Genesis.  After customizing the interface, I felt like I was home again.  It has so many features I have sorely missed.

Quote - There's no rule that says you can't use both Poser and Daz Studio, or that you can't use content from both.

Indeed not.  In fact, I'm hoping the next version of Reality will be advanced enough to give me a reason to switch back to DS as part of my primary workflow.  I only switched to Poser for access to IDL, Gamma Correction, and Poser-exclusive content.  Reality made IDL and GC irrelevant.

Quote - If you spend all your time and energy trying to keep up with what all the forum bickering is about, you're just wasting time that you could be spending on creating all that art you wanted to create when you started working with this stuff to begin with.

Good point.  Thank you for the insight.

Quote - In the end, most sane people looking at the art you produce aren't going to care what program was used to create it.

Again, I'm not concerned with people knowing what I used.  I need to know whatever I use will let me do what I want.

It seems everyone is telling me that, just because a new generation of figures comes out doesn't mean the old generation is any less viable or should stop being supported.  My job is to figure out which figure(s) will work best for me, and learn the skills I need to incorporate those figures into my art.

Does that about sum it up?

Quote - > Quote - If you've got some background in using DS -- even from four years ago -- then using it now shouldn't create such a barrier.

I spent my first three years noodling around exclusively with DS.  The last version I worked with was 3.1 Advanced.  I recently installed 4.6 Pro to experiment with Genesis.  After customizing the interface, I felt like I was home again.  It has so many features I have sorely missed.

Quote - There's no rule that says you can't use both Poser and Daz Studio, or that you can't use content from both.

Indeed not.  In fact, I'm hoping the next version of Reality will be advanced enough to give me a reason to switch back to DS as part of my primary workflow.  I only switched to Poser for access to IDL, Gamma Correction, and Poser-exclusive content.  Reality made IDL and GC irrelevant.

Quote - If you spend all your time and energy trying to keep up with what all the forum bickering is about, you're just wasting time that you could be spending on creating all that art you wanted to create when you started working with this stuff to begin with.

Good point.  Thank you for the insight.

Quote - In the end, most sane people looking at the art you produce aren't going to care what program was used to create it.

Again, I'm not concerned with people knowing what I used.  I need to know whatever I use will let me do what I want.

It seems everyone is telling me that, just because a new generation of figures comes out doesn't mean the old generation is any less viable or should stop being supported.  My job is to figure out which figure(s) will work best for me, and learn the skills I need to incorporate those figures into my art.

Does that about sum it up?

Yup. No figure is going to work for everybody, and you may like something that others don't. For instance, as much as I like V4, I do prefer shorter women in real life and prefer to use Olivia and Roxie.

Quote - Yup. No figure is going to work for everybody, and you may like something that others don't.

That makes sense.  I've always thought new equalled better, and better was universal.

Quote - For instance, as much as I like V4, I do prefer shorter women in real life and prefer to use Olivia and Roxie.

V4 can be scaled down, if you like.  It's a trick I learned when I was trying to turn M4 into a 7-ft tall psychopath.  I couldn't get his clothes to properly scale up with him, so I made V4 10% smaller than she is, to compensate, and set her clothes to automatically adjust accordingly.

Quote - V4 can be scaled down, if you like.  It's a trick I learned when I was trying to turn M4 into a 7-ft tall psychopath.  I couldn't get his clothes to properly scale up with him, so I made V4 10% smaller than she is, to compensate, and set her clothes to automatically adjust accordingly.

V4 has a morph for Stephanie 4 who is a much smaller figure. My only regret with her is that she can't wear a lot of V4's clothes because they didn't include the morphs because they came out so late.

"Again, I'm not concerned with people knowing what I used.  I need to know whatever I use will let me do what I want."

If you use V4 I think you're already doing the right thing, because if any figure is going to let you do what you want, it is V4 due to the amount of stuff available for her.  The only way to get more than that is to start modifying her with your own morphs and accessories.  To go further still is surely to create your very own figure, something that suits your ideals in every way.

Lot of work though, modelling, rigging, texturing, etc.

Quote - Those older figures are still included, Poser 10's Rex was pretty much doomed by default because he's male

Apollo Maximus was one of the most widely used and talked about 3rd party figures of them all, and he never had a female counterpart. 

Being male doesn't doom a Poser figure by default. Being poorly designed does, regardless of gender. 

Rex has potential, but just like with Roxie, his design was rushed. If they had included a selection of body and face morphs at release then I think both of them would have received a lot more support than what they have, as many people don't enjoy fighting with the face room to change the look of their characters. They want dials and presets to do that for them. Plus the face room support was botched innitially and took a while to get fixed. 

I like what I've seen of Teyon's work with Rex, but the only examples I've seen of it is from his gallery and the occasional avatar thumb that he changes. I thought we would have seen expansion sets from SM by now that incorporated some of Teyon's work, but so far I haven't seen or heard anything about that. 

I actually thought Apollo Maximus was a character for M4, didn't even know it was a figure!

But yup, I suppose the lack of standard morphs for Roxie might have a lot to do with her not getting enough use, and I totally agree about Teyon's stuff.  He's very gifted,  you don't see much of it, but the bits you do see prove he knows his stuff when it comes to sculpting.

I think he really needs more power in the team though, and more time to do his stuff.  Like I said in that other thread, SM really need their own "Mascot Girl" to compete with Vicky, and they already have the talent to get it done.

Miki is about the closest to a mascot girl SM has gotten so far. And she doesn't get a lot of support, but probably more than any of the other SM figures to date. She's still the #1 seller on CP. 

Apollo is older than M4. 

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that both DAZ and SM (e-frontier at the time) offered to buy Apollo from his creator, which shows how well liked his design was. Again, don't know if that's actually true. And then a few years later, there's genesis. 

Apollo Maximus creators name is ?

rummor had it he worked for DAZ before.

rummor had it, it was difficult to make pants for Apollo was why he didn't get a lot of suport.

I here about V6 & Dawn all the time .
why don't I ever here about My Michelle ?

"Apollo is older than M4.

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that both DAZ and SM (e-frontier at the time) offered to buy Apollo from his creator, which shows how well liked his design was."

Hi Shane,.. not true
 
I was around back then
Feel free to undertake a tedious archeological excavation of the forum archives to see for yourself.. if so inclined.

DAZ vendor/Artist&The creator of ApolloMax (Anton Kiselle) was the first AFAIK to publicly announce here  that DAZ was developing it's own
"figure posing and rendering program"

He also naturally seemed to assume that his new $90 USD Apollo Max Figure was Going to be the Default DAZ Male going forward.

DAZ had other plans in the form of the newly released Millenium man 3, AKA "Mike 3"

Anton took it very personally and undertook a very public and ugly "Divorce" from DAZ inc. using these forums here as his primary platform to Attack his Arch Enemy( Daz)

Long story ,short... he ( and his dedicated band of loyalists) then went on to alienate EVERY major poser content outlet with gratuitous assertions nearly any new figure tech was "stolen" from Apollo Max from V4 to the ill fated "Clarke" male Figure by Artist "Shahara" (IIRC)

Even after his melodramatic self imposed "Exile"
you still found remaining loyalists putting forth ridiculous theories here implying that DAZ M4 was result of a retopo /shrink wrap modifier
pirating of Apollo.

Apollo was a decent Figure in his day but had many flaws
( such as a complete lack of anatomically correct muscle definition)

But  in reality he( Apollo) was a victim of an EXTREME Case of the bizarre phenomenon displayed so often here that results in locked/Deleted threads

An Emotional attachment to a figure/program that closely resembles
the nationalists/ tribal/ religous/ extremism that is causing all the turmoil in the real world today.

Apolla,created by Anton Kisiel, came out before Victoria 4 and had a lot of scaling and proportion advancements that V4 and the rest of the DAZ generation 4 figures would have.

By the way Victoria 5 &6 and Michael 5 & 6 are not the base figures like Victoria 4 & Michael 4 where.  Genesis is the base for Victoria 5 & Michael 5 and all generation 5 GenePool shapes.  Genesis 2 Female is the base for the base for Victoria 6 and all female generation 5 GenePool shapes.  Genesis 2 Male the base for Michael 5 and all generation 5 male GenePool shapes.

Quote - By the way Victoria 5 & 6  and Michael 5 & 6 are not the base figures like Victoria 4 & Michael 4 where.

Genesis is the base for Victoria 5 & Michael 5 and all generation 5 GenePool shapes.

Genesis 2 Female is the base for Victoria 6 and all female generation 5 GenePool shapes.

Genesis 2 Male the base for Michael 5 and all generation 5 male GenePool shapes.

Thank you for mentioning that.  I've been very confused about the distinction between the base figures, and how they compare to V4 and M4.

Anton Keisel

You don't hear anything about My Michelle over here because the vendors that made content for her are over at RDNA.

Quote - Anton Keisel

You don't hear anything about My Michelle over here because the vendors that made content for her are over at RDNA.

Well, for the record, I don't mention her because I don't own her and know nothing about her. Same goes for Mariko from Animotions.

V4 is a DAZ mesh ,Dawns a hivewire3D mesh, here about them all the time on this forum.
So why wouldn't we hear about RDNA My Michelle mesh.just seems odd that I never hear about that one mesh.& every one says SM needs a mesh like DAZ V4 ,
couldn't that be what My Michelle is ?
since I never hear about My Michelle I'm guessing no one uses her.

Got a active link to Mariko from Animotions ?
couldn't find them on google.

just curious ,If you sold a 2014 character something like Appollo ,lets say M7 to DAZ or Poser.

What would it be worth ?

Quote - V4 is a DAZ mesh ,Dawns a hivewire3D mesh, here about them all the time on this forum.
So why wouldn't we hear about RDNA My Michelle mesh.just seems odd that I never hear about that one mesh.& every one says SM needs a mesh like DAZ V4 ,
couldn't that be what My Michelle is ?
since I never hear about My Michelle I'm guessing no one uses her.

Got a active link to Mariko from Animotions ?
couldn't find them on google.

My Michelle is a figure on sale at RDNA. Mariko is a figure that was on sale at Animotions, but now all i get is a parked website. I hadn't heard of them going out of business, so I don't know, but you can also get Mariko at Renderosity. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dtg-studios-mariko---stand-alone-/91821

What year was Mariko released ?

Mariko looks all right and said she had 300 morphs ,sounds good.

but

I'm going to use Mariko as a exsample of what not to do.

Don't make a wireframe .jpg to small to see.but if ya do atleast put a polycount on it.
Don't make all the .jgps to small.
Don't say 300 morphs and not show any.

Show some setting poses and expressions and all.
Show me what all she can do.
Show me just how well she does bend .
What abour extreme poses ?

and this is the biggest one of them all.this really drives me insain.
after ya release ya mesh ,don't stop ,it's not over ,it's just started.
Over and over again I've seen them release a mesh and not advertise they don't keep pushing there mesh.

If I did all that work ,I wouldn't just let it go and forget it.
If I release a Poser mesh everyone would be going shut up RorrKonn .
We All know about ya mesh.We all have ya mesh in are runtime.
So shut up.Then I would go make upgrades to drive you all insain telling you all about the new and improved mesh till you all told me to shut about that :)

but what do most do they work hard on a mesh,release the mesh & go to sleep.
I will never get that.

Quote - > Quote - V4 is a DAZ mesh ,Dawns a hivewire3D mesh, here about them all the time on this forum.

So why wouldn't we hear about RDNA My Michelle mesh.just seems odd that I never hear about that one mesh.& every one says SM needs a mesh like DAZ V4 ,
couldn't that be what My Michelle is ?
since I never hear about My Michelle I'm guessing no one uses her.

Got a active link to Mariko from Animotions ?
couldn't find them on google.

My Michelle is a figure on sale at RDNA. Mariko is a figure that was on sale at Animotions, but now all i get is a parked website. I hadn't heard of them going out of business, so I don't know, but you can also get Mariko at Renderosity. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dtg-studios-mariko---stand-alone-/91821

Yeah, animotions shut down in August & is moving their original content over to 'Rosity.

Mariko came out around the same time as Poser 9, but she was not weightmapped.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - V4 is a DAZ mesh ,Dawns a hivewire3D mesh, here about them all the time on this forum.

So why wouldn't we hear about RDNA My Michelle mesh.just seems odd that I never hear about that one mesh.& every one says SM needs a mesh like DAZ V4 ,
couldn't that be what My Michelle is ?
since I never hear about My Michelle I'm guessing no one uses her.

Got a active link to Mariko from Animotions ?
couldn't find them on google.

My Michelle is a figure on sale at RDNA. Mariko is a figure that was on sale at Animotions, but now all i get is a parked website. I hadn't heard of them going out of business, so I don't know, but you can also get Mariko at Renderosity. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dtg-studios-mariko---stand-alone-/91821

Yeah, animotions shut down in August & is moving their original content over to 'Rosity.

I hate to see them go, but I have to admit, I don't think I've ever bought anything from there. Although I did download some of the superhero costumes.

Mariko is certainly different but not being weight mapped would appeal more to the Poser users that have stuck at an earlier versions.  The fact that she is Japanese would also be an issue for me as a base figure.  I have nothing against Japan or the Japanese and my car for many years has been a Honda that I love but I want my base figure to be a blank canvas.  Of course I want the ethnic morphs as well so that I can have all the ethnic variations but to have a base figure to have such stong ethnic features would, I think, be very limiting.

On the plus side there are some interesting morphs listed such as brows vulcan, tongue forked, Pupil square and Pupil slit vertical.  I would however agree the earlier comment that I would like to see some of these in the promo. 

Without trying to be negative, if Dawn had been launched with this number of morphs perhaps her uptake would have been quicker.  I am sure Dawn will get there but the more morphs on day one the better the chance of hitting the ground running.

Quote - Without trying to be negative, if Dawn had been launched with this number of morphs perhaps her uptake would have been quicker.  I am sure Dawn will get there but the more morphs on day one the better the chance of hitting the ground running.

First to the OP, figure bashing is something to expect, it's gonna happen no matter what.

And to add the quoted, you usually don't get two chances, it's either good at release or dead at release.  Dawn has so many deficiencies it would take me years doing nothing else and she'd still be just below Alyson. YMMV.

Doric.

I see the word hobby at the top of this post and this means fun.

Simplify your art desires to the easiest work flow and create a comic render

http://universeabovetheearth.com/comicstyles/default.html

 Figures get a lot of critisim if the creators do not listen to their beta testers.

Get the correct beta testers, and LISTEN & REPAIR!

it is as simple as that.

 Figures get a lot of critisim if the creators do not listen to their beta testers.

Get the correct beta testers, and LISTEN & REPAIR!

it is as simple as that.

Vilters, you should know by now that vendors don't listen to anything that could be construed as negative feedback.  They are only interested in hearing how great they are.