** Hello Dolly.
**
Well Rendero, you asked, but nobody reacted.

So good boy that I am, allow me to say "Hello Dolly".

Such a shame that you are for "the other figure in the other application".

HUH?

The Dolly base is on Rendo's Hot List so it must have sold decently. 

vilters quote Such a shame that you are for "the other figure in the other application".

there wouldn't be a renderosity or even a poser for that matter with out Vicky .

@Vilters
Wondered what the hell you was on about until I read the replies :-D

@Male_M3dia
No interest in Genesis personally, but how come Dolly is regarded as a "base", how can it be a base if Genesis is supposed to be the base for everything for Genesis?  If it's a base then what's the difference between a Genesis base and a FBM for Genesis?  It just seems like a FBM to me, I don't get the difference if it's still the Genesis base.

Think they mean Dolly is a base for all Dolly stuff. Should actually be "Character or figure shape" really, and not base. All depends how you interpret what they mean. Most people know the difference anyways that the only real base meshes are G1, G2F and G2M, and that any character for them is just a shape. Also if you read the products description it says the following-

Dolly is a brandnew high quality character figure for Genesis 2 Female(s), adding a big portion of cuteness to your Genesis 2 Female(s) figure library.
Since Dolly is based on the popular Genesis 2 Female figure, she can wear any available G2F clothing and hair and can use any G2F character textures.

@Zev0
To be honest I never visited the page, I was just curious because of how Male_M3dia put it.  I've often wondered because If I recall, I think even DAZ do it as well, I don't see why Victoria 5 is a Base or should be called one, because like you said, it's a shape, a character.

To me a base is the figure itself, the geometry a character is based on.

Congratulations ZevO , you learned to copy and paste a description , now you need to learn a little humility and learn you have to answer the questions of those who buy your products and not send "to search in internet"

The genesis 1 and 2 meshes are the base meshes and V5, V6, Dolly, etc are figures based on those base meshes. They can have different rigging, UVs, etc. Because they come from the same base mesh, they can share UVs (textures) and mix morphs from each, and share clothing. This is basically the same model as the generation 4 characters as they share the same base mesh, however the technology at the time didn't allow them to switch rigging or easily swap UVs (there were characters that had different UVs, but they were in a different figure CR2). They all came from the same base, but users didn't have access to the base to create their own characters if they wished to. If the base genesis mesh weren't available for use, then you would have the same thing: a V6, V5, M5, M6, etc. The tech just compresses everything down into one figure so you don't have a bunch of CR2s in your runtime and morphs and textures are available for mixing.

And because the base mesh is available, you can create your own figures and not have to rely on vendor support for clothing, textures, etc. because whatever fits the base, fits the characters based on it.

If you read OOT's description on the product page, Dolly is simply a morph of G2Female.  No new rigging.  No new UV's.  It's not a base, it's a morph set.  It doesn't even have a new obj file.  If it had a new geometry file, I'd consider it a base.  Otherwise, it's really just another morph set. 

If you read OOT's description on the product page, Dolly is simply a morph of G2Female.  No new rigging.  No new UV's.  It's not a base, it's a morph set.  It doesn't even have a new obj file.  If it had a new geometry file, I'd consider it a base.  Otherwise, it's really just another morph set. 

They said it's a character and if it's different from the normal proportions of the Genesis2Female it's most likely has adjusted rigging in order for it to work in Poser as scaling alone will not work. Genesis also doesn't use obj files at all, and uses a concept of gene pools. It's a change in thinking, but it is generally separate characters as each character is added to the gene pool and you need the base character to use characters based on it. The fact that all the figures are compressed into one mesh solves the problem of vendor support for new characters. Think about it: How many characters have come and gone because there wasn't any clothing or textures for it? 

Could be wrong but it looks like DAZ are responsible for the mess in naming things.

Ever since I've been using Poser, a base is a base (and it's staying that way for me), it's geometry of the figure.  It seems as if DAZ have complicated the situation in order to resell what they've already sold time and time again - FBMs.  In other words, since they marketed Genesis as something that you add to without worrying about future compatibility, but by doing that, they have removed the need for new base figures, so in their infinite wisdom have decided that "Base" is the new name for a FBM.

Not saying that's what they've done, but it sure looks like that to me.  Despite that, Victoria 5 is a morph as far as I'm concerned, not a base, and them classing it as a base makes no difference to what it is (that being a morph for Genesis).  Victoria 4 was indeed a base, but for me personally, Victoria 5 is not a base no matter what way they justify it to themselves.  I think Victoria 5 is a FBM for Genesis despite the other complexities involved.

A new geometry defining a new figure is a new base.

If V5 is a morph to you then she is a morph, if she is a figure to others she is a figure, if she is a shape to others then she is a shape. And if she is a base to others, well then I guess she is a base. End of the day whatever it is called requires the base geometry which is either Genesis1, Genesis2 Male or Female. Personally I call them figure morphs or figure shapes. The main issue is Daz didn't really give rules as to what they are classified as. We basically make up our own classifications that makes sense to us.

Could be wrong but it looks like DAZ are responsible for the mess in naming things.

Ever since I've been using Poser, a base is a base (and it's staying that way for me), it's geometry of the figure.  It seems as if DAZ have complicated the situation in order to resell what they've already sold time and time again - FBMs.  In other words, since they marketed Genesis as something that you add to without worrying about future compatibility, but by doing that, they have removed the need for new base figures, so in their infinite wisdom have decided that "Base" is the new name for a FBM.

Not saying that's what they've done, but it sure looks like that to me.  Despite that, Victoria 5 is a morph as far as I'm concerned, not a base, and them classing it as a base makes no difference to what it is (that being a morph for Genesis).  Victoria 4 was indeed a base, but for me personally, Victoria 5 is not a base no matter what way they justify it to themselves.  I think Victoria 5 is a FBM for Genesis despite the other complexities involved.

A new geometry defining a new figure is a new base.

Yes and people have runtimes filled with unused figures that can't share textures and morphs. CR2 and objs taking up file space. It's really not hard of a concept how the genesis framework is set up, and it's a concept that works. Someone can make a "Dolly" figure, adjust the rigging (and optionally make a UV if they want) and put it out for sale. Each character is a base as if you try to use a product that requires it and you don't have the figure base, you end up with a warped crumpled mess. Figures are loaded in with reverse deformation with the morph tools (so only your morph data is saved), so you need that base in order to use products based on that. M4, K4 and V4 are the from the same base geometry. By your definition, those aren't separate figures either. The precursor to genesis, Unimesh, was sitting behind the scenes that no one had access to use.

@Zev0
Well not really, V5 is a morph to me because she is a morph, and V4 is a base to me because she is a base.  V5 is not a base just because DAZ made it and may have decided that industry-wide naming is going out of the window just because they said so.  V5 is not a base for the simple fact that V5 is not a base, it's a morph, not because I said so, but because industry-wide naming, and user recognition of it says so.

@Male_M3dia
That's right, those figures are all one "base", just another example of how DAZ resell the same figure over and over again.  Unless I'm mistaken, if they all use the same base, then they could all have been sold as FBM for the V4 base. The problem is DAZ's typical cluelessness at structuring and naming things.  With V4 they should have released the mesh as "Unimesh" or whatever it was, and simply sold the V4/M4/K4 as seperate FBM's for it.  They still make the same amount of sales and the naming system keeps making sense.

Don't get me wrong, DAZ produce great figures and I have nothing against them taking opportunities to maximise their profits, but I think calling a FBM a "Base" is pushing it a bit.  In fact it must be pushing it, I only have a very basic knowledge of these things, and even I spotted that V5 is not a base  :-D

V5 "Base" my arse, it's a FBM for Genesis, so why not just call it that?
It doesn't stop them being able to sell it :-)

I made this rather sarcastic tread because Rendero prefers to send out mails for DS figures to Poser users instead of repairing the forum.
The mailing system is on the same level as the forums state right now. And, not a soul seems to care.

All what Zev0 and Male_M3dia posted above is very good information, unfortunately posted in the wrong forum.
Dolly's address is DS Street 4.7, in DAZ Country.

I love life, (and the little rest of hair on my scull). No need for the ; Death Seems Obvious Now.

Although appreciated, the information provided was not "good" information because it is wrong information.
V5 is not a base, it's a morph for another base that already exists!

That "Base" is called Genesis ;-)

vilters quote Such a shame that you are for "the other figure in the other application".

there wouldn't be a renderosity or even a poser for that matter with out Vicky .

Poser existed before Vicky did. I don't recall whether Rendo did or not. But there were several sites on line where you could get clothing and props for the Poser figures, even before DAZ.

 Dolly reminds me of the mother from the animated movie "Coraline".

Poser was first some 20 years or so ago.
All the rest came later, as soon as they smelled "money".
LOL.

Renderosity did not exist as Renderosity back in the pre-Vicki days.  I can't remember exactly what it was named back then.  I know it had Poser and Forum in it back then.  Before Zygote/DAZ came up with Vicki, they created Posette and Dork.  After all, DAZ included VictoriaP4 and MichealP4 legacy figures with the Vicki and Mike downloads as well as sell a StephanieP4 figure in the store.  I have an old Zygote invoice for the purchase of Nude Young Woman and a texture for it. 

Although appreciated, the information provided was not "good" information because it is wrong information.
V5 is not a base, it's a morph for another base that already exists!

That "Base" is called Genesis ;-)

A figure base for a base mesh. ;)  Reusing a base mesh is very economical. When you have a good base mesh, why restart from the beginning? Hivewire's Dusk and their horse started from the same Dawn mesh.  Even Rex and Roxie started from the same mesh, though Roxie got a few extra polys in her gens region for more detail so they can't share morphs like the other figures can.

How they are ultimately organized shouldn't make a difference.

Of course it makes a difference, it's bloody confusing :-P

 Tiens,
I was anticipating a reaction of the bladed girl. LOL.

Not normal that she lets us talk about the competition for so long.
She must be getting old.

@Vilters
To be honest, I think Roxie's fed-up with ranting about the importance of supporting Poser figures.  She was saying to me just the other day, it's like swimming against the tide with your feet chopped off, and that hardly anyone listens to her.  There was a fair bit of swearing as well but you know what I mean.

She's not happy about the situation, that's for sure, but I'll let her know you're waiting for a comment :-D

I smell the sulphur in the air
As Vickies come from everywhere

This daunting feeling has to stop
Every Vickie, for the chop

Easy come, easy go
I'm handy with my blade you know

Be careful of decisions made
The name is Roxie - Girl With Blade

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

I am fortunate enough to have both programs and have successfully used Dolly in Poser using the DSON Importer without opening Daz, or converting this or that. It was automatically in my Genesis 2 runtime that I have Poser linked to after I installed the Dolly's zips in the correct places.

On a side note lets try to keep this post in civil and positive tone.

vilters quote Such a shame that you are for "the other figure in the other application".

RorrKonn's quote there wouldn't be a renderosity or even a poser for that matter with out Vicky .

EClark1894 quote Poser existed before Vicky did. I don't recall whether Rendo did or not.
But there were several sites on line where you could get clothing and props for the Poser figures, even before DAZ.

well guess it's imposable to know what would have been for sure but if ya took all of DAZ related stuff out of poser ,renderosity

don't think poser & renderosity wouldn't be near as big with out DAZ n Vicky related stuff.

I know renderosity ,runtime etc etc  store wouldn't be as big 

I never knew how poser survived with out SubD's anyways.

I know your not a Vicky fan. only meshes I like are the SubD meshes so all early real high polycount meshes not matter who made them I don't like .

Roxie ,V5,V6 are the only meshes I'll have any thing to do with.

be nice if the Artist signed the meshes they modeled.

bet we would see a lot of redundancy between poser,daz,hivewire.

didn't  Chris Creek work for all poser,daz,hivewire at one time or the other ?

 
***Now, you all be good boys, OK?
And perhaps, I"ll let you turn the transparancy dials.

(Just a draft of a WIP. LOL. )

pumeco quote Of course it makes a difference, it's bloody confusing :-P

a character needs ,1 mesh,2 map,3 rigs

if G2 has ,mesh 001,map 001,rigs 001

& V6 has ,mesh 001,map 002,rigs 002

then G2&V6 are only 1/3 the same character.& 2/3 not the same character.

 Please relax guys, my "Master of disaster" just finished painting the shoulder bulge maps.
Night all.

Renderosity did not exist as Renderosity back in the pre-Vicki days.  I can't remember exactly what it was named back then.  I know it had Poser and Forum in it back then.  Before Zygote/DAZ came up with Vicki, they created Posette and Dork.  After all, DAZ included VictoriaP4 and MichealP4 legacy figures with the Vicki and Mike downloads as well as sell a StephanieP4 figure in the store.  I have an old Zygote invoice for the purchase of Nude Young Woman and a texture for it. 

    Originally, this was Poser Forum Online, or PFO. Then it became the twin sites Renderosity/Renderotica. Then Rotica had to go its own way when Diane left. But it became Renderosity slightly before Victoria was fielded.

Could be wrong but it looks like DAZ are responsible for the mess in naming things.

Ever since I've been using Poser, a base is a base (and it's staying that way for me), it's geometry of the figure.  It seems as if DAZ have complicated the situation in order to resell what they've already sold time and time again - FBMs.  In other words, since they marketed Genesis as something that you add to without worrying about future compatibility, but by doing that, they have removed the need for new base figures, so in their infinite wisdom have decided that "Base" is the new name for a FBM.

While I don't disagree with you, by your definition, all of the Generation 4 figures are then FBMs and re-rigs of the 'base' V4 Unimesh... ;) Separating out the Genesis 2 genders was not a technical decision. This is the Real World; DAZ has to sell stuff to make money, so there will always be something new around the corner...

Actually the reselling was more prevalent in Generation 3 than moving forward. Each figure in generation 3 was a separate figure with different rigging. So you were paying more than once if you wanted on outfit to fit vickie and aiko and stephanie. Generation 4 consolidated those purchases into 2 base figures, just like Genesis 2; if you didn't have tool like Morphing Clothes you would have to buy the unimesh fits as an addon for the clothing in Generation 4. Genesis 2, most items just fit the current and future characters so you no longer have to buy unimesh fits. Consolidating those figures into a common base wasn't something that just happened when genesis showed up. ;)  The split back to 2 genders was a result from feedback from vendors that found it difficult to make the pretty female clothing when the base had no breasts and it required more behind the scenes work to get something more gender specific when there was one base figure and weight map. That was evidently was the right decision since Genesis2 support has increased at other stores other than DAZ, hence the Dolly release by Rendo.

Speaking of Genesis characters, Joe Quick's Mole and Naked Mole Rats is on fast grab; If it had Poser Companion files I'd probably buy it...

(edited)

In fairness Male_M3dia is right there is growing support for Genesis in most of the stores, Rendo included.  Whether this is because more people have got Genesis working in Poser to a degree they are happy with or the fact that vendors have become more proficient in making Genesis stuff it is impossible to say.  Not only is there more support but the trend here appears to be that more items are Genesis only rather than V4 and Genesis. Just an observation on my part, and while I could be accused off being part of the Daz publicity team it would be in error as I have shopped at Daz only once in almost three years and that was for some V4 stuff on a massive sale.  I do not use Genesis, or see that I ever will, but I am also glad that those Poser users that want to use Genesis have a method by which they can. 

 it's easy ,fastest car wins ,which cars the fastest ? the best one.

fastest & easiest UI wins ,just ask softimage R.I.P.

fastest & most user friendly character wins.

2014 V6 is better then 1902 V4  .who here still drives a 1902 horse ?

how is any of this still a mystery.  

 it's easy ,fastest car wins ,which cars the fastest ? the best one.

fastest & easiest UI wins ,just ask softimage R.I.P.

fastest & most user friendly character wins.

2014 V6 is better then 1902 V4  .who here still drives a 1902 horse ?

how is any of this still a mystery.  

 

Yes but.
A new car will shine more and probably give better miles per gallon than my 16 year old beast but both will get me from A to B.  Not only that the new car will almost certainly have more to fail on it and do I really need things like park assist.  My 16 year old Honda still does what I want it to do so why spend mega bucks with something the essentially does the same thing.

V4 does all I want it to do so why spend any money on V6.  For those that want to use V6 fine, but there are a lot of people that don't not want or cannot afford the fastest car and to a degree the same goes for the easiest to use UI 

Not many 1902 horses around but horses in general are still popular and still used by forest management teams so they are not obsolete either, just a question of horses for courses.

Not many 19

There are two market aspects here; for some their purchase decisions are driven by technology, while for others, content is the driving force. Right now, DAZ as a content company is able to have more influence driving the technology than SM as a software company has at driving content. E-Frontier tried with the G2 figures that came out with Poser 7, releasing a lot of content for them, and partnering with RDNA to release extensive morph packages, but they didn't really offer any technological advantage over existing figures, plus there were (and are ) issues with those figures, particularly the asymmetry of the G2 female mesh.

I think SM had a window of opportunity in this regard when Poser 9 came out, but they did not take advantage of it, for whatever reason. (likely the finances of their parent)

Yeah, listen peeps, you all need to chill, I can hardly hear my beats for the arguing!!!
WTF!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

Yeah, listen, you see what happens when a girl with some authority speaks out?
You all listened and did as you were told!!!

It's good cause it means I should be a moderator, and if I was a moderator I would be able to sort out the Vickie problem really quick!!!  I would delete all the posts that have got a Vickie in them and I would issue a month ban to anyone who tried to upload another Vickie, plus, if they do it again I will ban them!!!

So if there is an opportunity, you should all vote for Roxie as mod!!!
Plus, I think Shane must have died anyway, so we need another mod, it all works out perfect!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

Fair warning: any more arguing and personal attacks will get this thread locked and the offenders a suspension. Have already deleted a few posts. Don't mind deleting more. 

If you don't like a post use your ignore buttons. 

Carry on.

You know what's funny, I honestly don't even know where the arguments come from half the time, it's been like that a lot of times over the months I've been here.  I think I must have missed something really big before I came to the Poser forum, and these arguments somehow stem from it.  It's a bit like reading an expertly written 'Who Dunnit?' novel for me, cause I honestly haven't a clue who did what - I feel like everyone else knows but me :-D

Have to say though, I'm starting to sympathise with Male_M3dia because while I don't know what happened before (and something obviously did), I've noticed he gets a heck of a lot of flak for saying things that are nothing to get upset about (unless something I didn't see got deleted), and even when he replies to that flak, he does so in a civilised manner.

Anyway, due to the crackdown, it means I'll never get to finish my "Who Dunnit?" novel - so I'll never work it out!

pumeco,**
**

There were some people (many of whom are no longer here) who would stir up app wars when Genesis first came out.  DAZ accommodated many of the concerns raised, such as by developing the DSON Importer,  but for some folks hard feelings remain.

My personal view is that no one is forcing anyone to buy anything....

Well that's just stupid, people getting as peeved as they do, arguing and getting permanently banned over a bloody importer.  And from what I've read time and time again, the thing doesn't even work properly!

I can understand people getting banned over things they stand up for because they feel it's something personal or an injustice, but an importer is different, it's just the product of a company you either like or you don't.  I mean bloody hell, there's plenty of stuff I don't like about DAZ, but the importer is sort of irrelevant, and if anything, it not working properly must be harming them more than anything.  And even if it worked properly and people were using it, I don't get why that is the subject of so many arguments!

I've said myself that I don't think SM should support Genesis at all, but that's strictly from the point of view of me wanting to see SM crucify DAZ with a figure of their own for a change, it's not that I don't like Genesis, of course I do, it's a damn fine piece of work, all DAZ's figures are, it's just that if I had to choose, I'd choose V4 over Genesis (but thankfully I don't have to because I have a Roxie).  To me, Genesis is an overcomplicated figure I could do without, V4 is already complicated enough and I don't like the way DAZ are going with all that Content Manager bullshit either, so I don't use DS anymore - they're getting to be like another Apple - and I don't do Apple either.  I'm quite capable of downloading a file and installing it myself, and unless that option returns, I won't be buying anything else from them.

But yup, thanks for clarifying, sounds kinda dumb for so many arguments to be over an importer, but at least I know what it's about now :-)

Well that's just stupid, people getting as peeved as they do, arguing and getting permanently banned over a bloody importer.  And from what I've read time and time again, the thing doesn't even work properly!

I can understand people getting banned over things they stand up for because they feel it's something personal or an injustice, but an importer is different, it's just the product of a company you either like or you don't.  I mean bloody hell, there's plenty of stuff I don't like about DAZ, but the importer is sort of irrelevant, and if anything, it not working properly must be harming them more than anything.  And even if it worked properly and people were using it, I don't get why that is the subject of so many arguments!

I've said myself that I don't think SM should support Genesis at all, but that's strictly from the point of view of me wanting to see SM crucify DAZ with a figure of their own for a change, it's not that I don't like Genesis, of course I do, it's a damn fine piece of work, all DAZ's figures are, it's just that if I had to choose, I'd choose V4 over Genesis (but thankfully I don't have to because I have a Roxie).  To me, Genesis is an overcomplicated figure I could do without, V4 is already complicated enough and I don't like the way DAZ are going with all that Content Manager bullshit either, so I don't use DS anymore - they're getting to be like another Apple - and I don't do Apple either.  I'm quite capable of downloading a file and installing it myself, and unless that option returns, I won't be buying anything else from them.

But yup, thanks for clarifying, sounds kinda dumb for so many arguments to be over an importer, but at least I know what it's about now :-)

The thing is, for all the images in the Rendo Gallery, the release of Dolly, etc. the importer does work. What you've heard is misinformation. Now does it do everything as well as what you're used to? No, but for some it works enough to do their renders like V4 and for some vendors to create their products, including support for Poser because there are still vendors that use Poser and they use genesis as well. The problem was that if a Poser user genuinely asked how to set up the importer or wanted information, they were instantly chastised for asking, fed misinformation they know weren't true, pasted in rehash speeches of things that weren't true or pure speculation, told to just use DS, or repeated information that wasn't true because they didn't try it themselves, etc.. everything except actually helping that person. Regardless, adoption of Genesis (particularly Genesis 2) has risen despite this, and that hasn't made some happy. But that's generally how the fights started, how some people got banned, left to go to other sites, etc.

Really whether someone wants or don't want to try something is really their decision. If they ask a question, it deserves an answer, not name calling or bullying. If you aren't able to actually help, instead of adding negativity, you can always skip to another subject.

You do not know what this is all about?
Money.

Vendors, sales, popularity, and most of all : Money.

Poser and  DS users are the best friends ; Right up to the moment they become vendors. Then the competition starts. More so for those that are trying to make an income from their sales. Within a month, they are armed and ready for battle.

3D is a fantastic hobby.

But never-ever become a vendor.

Even releasing a quality freebie puts you on the shooting list.

Every freebie downloaded is one less possible sale. 

**I know. I am on the target shooting list.

Edited an explanation will follow shortly.**

I don't know if anyone was actually banned, but they don't participate much here anymore.

EDIT:

Of course it's about Money, Tony.   Why is that surprising?  These companies are in it to make money; if it weren't for them we'd liely be doing something else for a hobby, or using Blender or MakeHuman...

 Yes, and money keeps this forum open so people can post for free how the problem with this whole thing deals with money ;)

To all:
Roll back in time. 10 years ago, V/M4 was the only possibility. Content creators where few, and they "rightfully so" made very good money.

Compare to now: SM, DAZ, Hiverwire, that are 3 companies, with 3 different main stream figures.

There are a LOT more vendors, and a LOT more vendor wannabe's. Ha, only this week I posted somewhere ; Att : there are more vendors then customers... LOL.

Over time, the quality of the products has increased drastically.
Honestly, I see the most wonderfull stuff being made all over the place, but due to the competition, prices dropped to an all time low.

It is perfectly clear that some vendors are having, or will get a hard time in the close future. Not only because of market saturation, a point we are approaching fast, but also the quality required and the low prices to "beat" the competition.

**Secondly the tools.
**Poser and DS both have gotten creation or content conversion tools that where non-existent 10 years ago.
The free modeling apps like Blender and Wings become more and more capable and more and more end users are building stuff "in house". It became part of the hobby to build yourself.

Third the freestuff. And here we also see a huge increase in quality all over
( PS : I put myself here in the free stuff area).

I only build something if I have to test or troubleshoot some issue. And when the test is completed and a fix in the make? I put the test outfit in freestuff.

The outfits released are as I call them "testing left-overs". Every outfit, from the first to the last had its purpose, and 2 more are on the way to being released..

Are they production/vendor quality? Certainly not, they are pretty good, they where never meant to be "vendor quality".

I only release with procedurals, but go through the trouble of UV-mapping most of them so end users "can" texture them if they want to.

Are they popular? Oh yeah, you bet. Initially I counted on a download of 5 to 10 at the most.

Only releasing "test free stuff left-overs"?
And then for Rex and Roxie?
I could never dream of the number of downloads they got. I was shocked by their popularity.

Sometimes it is funny actually.
Roxie-The Roman, is : ha-ha-ha- historically there never where fighting Roman women at the time, the most unrealistic possible outfit.

But you can all thank Roxie - The Roman.  That outfit is build in a very-very special way.

And That outfit got all the bugs out of the FBX export in PP2014 Game Dev.

Is it perfect? No, and I would certainly build it differently now.
But at the time?
Instead of making money?
It did the Job.
And in the end everybody gets a better and more capable Poser app..

Happy rendering all.