Came across yet another strange issue while modelling in Blender, and I've created a seperate thread about it, because it's unrelated to the other threads, which may very well just be my lack of workflow understanding.  But this one seems to be a bug?  It has to do with creating simple insets.  Here's what I'm doing.  I created a box, which will be subdivided.  So I added a subdivision modifier to the object level, then went into edit mode to work on the box.  I added some support edges to the box to give it some shape.  I also added a segment straight down the center on the X and Z axis.  You can see my edge loops in the cage of the screencap.

Next, I select 4 faces at the top of the box, and choose inset.  I inset by percentage or absolute (it doesn't matter), with region selected.  What I end up with is an inset that contains some strange triangulated edges (indicated in red below):

Now, to give an example of what I "expected" to happen here, I did the same kind of model in 3dsmax, with the same edge loop configuration, and a subdivision modifier at the top of the stack.  I went into "edit poly" to work on the faces, and did the same inset procedure. This time, in 3dsmax, I end up with a group of cleanly inset quads.  No triangulated edges, as expected:

So my question is, what's going on here?  Is this a bug?  I'm using Blender 2.72 (latest stable version) on Windows 8.1.  I tried removing the "region" option, but that just insets by face, which I expect.  That result is clean and fine, but not what I want.  I could use extrude for this, and just extrude with no height, and scale the faces in, but why, when there's an inset feature right there?  Can anyone else reproduce this strange behavior?

Ok, I restarted Blender, and tried doing this again.  This time, I still get the triangulated edges, only at a different location!  I can't imagine what is going on here.

Sorry, guys.  I'm actually using Blender 2.73, not 2.72 as I indicated in the title.  My mistake.  I did a quick search for inset bugs in Blender, but nothing about this turned up, so cant figure it out.  Only seems to occur when I am working on an object where manual edge loops were inserted, and a subdivision modifier exists on top in object mode.  Otherwise, inset seems to work ok.

Edit:  Nope!  I was wrong!  It does the same thing!  So this seems to only occur after edge loops are added with the Loop and Slide command.  There's no subdivision modifier on this cube.  All I did was add some edge loops first, then selected the four faces, and inset.

Same strange edge triangulation issue.  That's a pain in the butt!  I'm starting to wonder, however, if this is a bug with Loop Cut and Slide, and not Inset?  WTF?  If I select those extra edges, click X, and delete edges only, the entire top of the box gets deleted, but the cross section of edge loop segments I added with Loop Cut and Slide still remain!  Very strange topology behavior.

Hey Maxx I just tried this and it only does it when you use the inset polygon on the tool bar. If you just hit  I- Key it works. Or Use the menu system (space bar) edit tools faces. It looks like you are right the Button is bugged. :)

Here is a STEP BY STEP on how to reproduce this problem.  Check it out:

Step 1, just default cube.

Step 2, add Loop Cut and Slide to place a control loop like this:

Now just keep adding edge loops with Loop Cut and Slide, as shown below:

Then, switch to face mode, and select the 4 faces on the inside, like so:

Finally, just do a simple INSET operation, using the Inset tool, with REGION ticked, then adjust the amount, but keep height at 0.

This can not be how INset is intended to work in Blender, I hope.  So, is it a bug?  Is it just poor programming?  Is it really how it behaves?

Hey Maxx I just tried this and it only does it when you use the inset polygon on the tool bar. If you just hit  I- Key it works. Or Use the menu system (space bar) edit tools faces. It looks like you are right the Button is bugged. :)

Cybermonk, you're right@!  WOW!  I just tried it again on a fresh scene, and it works if I only use the hotkey!  Thank god, because that's something I will be using very often in my workflow, and if it didn't work at all, I would have been so screwed.  So it's a bug with the button only?  Maybe we can get someone from Blender Foundation to look at this thread and put in a bug fix request? THANK YOU for pointing out the workaround for this though.  Glad you saw this.  People just learning are likely to use the button first.  I wasn't sure which hotkey was for inset.  In 3dsmax, I have my inset hotkey set to CTRL-I, because my "I" hotkey is set to inverting the current face, edge, or vert selection.  Thanks again!  Let's hope they fix that soon.

PS: Is there a hotkey set for Insetting on individual faces, or will we still need to activate via the button for that action?  Seems once you deselect the "region" option, in the button panel, the "inset by individual faces" works fine.  So far anyway.

Yeah that's the way ya got to do it. Some times I use the extrude individual without moving it and then scale them with individual pivot selected. That's actually more steps. So feel free to ignore that. lol

Yow.  You guys are awesome.  Cybermonk, you're a Blender genius.  Maxxxmodelz, for a guy just starting to learning Blender, you're definitely getting into some stuff that I wouldn't know to do, and I've been using Blender for a while now.  How many years were you using 3dsmax?  Did you model in anything before that?

Seems like there's so many great artists out there who use 3dsmax.  There's definitely a lot of great Blender guys too though.  I check out some of the pro 3d websites sometimes, like Cgtalk. The first thing I notice is that when you check out some of the best renders in those galleries, most of them list 3dsmax as one of the software used.  Sometimes it's Maya instead, but probably 80% or so mention 3dsmax and zbrush.  Must be a good software.

I hope you stick with Blender, and stay with us in this forum, because I'm definitely gonna call on you in 6 months time, and see how you stack up Blender against 3ds after you've been using it for a longer time, and after a few more updates.

I noticed that thing with inset a long time ago, but I just figured that was the way it was meant to work. I thought it was like an alternate way to inset, and the shortcut i key was the other way.  Shows what I know,.

Thanks for the kind words HMorton :)  but I'm definitely not a genius. My greatest asset is having a hard head. I'm pretty bull headed when tackling a problem. That and I really enjoy modelling.

 lol I've never used the button!! rarely have the T panel open ;-) but after hitting I you can do F6 and the options panel opens, it should be on T panel too but F6 is a lot quicker for me then opening T panel and finding it .... ps F6 will open options for any tool that has them

I have to say that your questions Maxx have opened up some great info sharing seen some really great post and learning a few more things myself

You'll be happy to hear that problem has been solved in 2.74 :)

You'll be happy to hear that problem has been solved in 2.74 :)

That's great news!  Thank you for letting me know.  I've downloaded 2.74, and very happy to see these improvements.

My pleasure.  I'm pretty much in the same position as yourself; many years experience with Hexagon, now switching to Blender.because Daz has abandoned it. Many times wishing it had some tool or other that Hex has, only to find it does have it, in spades, with bells and whistles:) 

Maybe the blender programmers saw this thread, Maxxxmodelz.  hehehe.  Hey, you never know!  This thread was the very first time I'd actually heard about the issue, and before this, I literally thought that was how it was supposed to work.   I never saw anyone post about it in other Blender forums either.  Squeeky wheels get the oil, as they say!

Roygee, thanks for letting us know they fixed it!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, everyone.  However, it appears that the inset bug still exists in Blender 2.74.  You can verify this on your own, using the following process:

• Create a standard cube.
• Subdivide the cube once.
• Select 4 faces on the top, and/or 4 faces on the side of the cube.
• Click the inset button in the Toolshelf, not the hotkey.
• Adjust the inset amount, with the Tool Options, and be sure "region" is ticked.

This will be the result:

Notice the crossing edges.  This is obviously incorrect.  The hotkey inset works fine, but it had worked in the last several releases too.

I just checked this out. Sure enough it's like Lux said. That's if you use the inset polygon. Up the tool shelf is an inset face button that does work though  It seems that the inset polygon only works on 1 face at a time. Weird right.

I simply assumed that "inset faces" was intended for either a single face or a group of faces and "inset polygon"  was intended for a single face only.  They have different effects and the "I" key does the same as the "inset faces" tool.  As I see it, it is working as intended - could be wrong,though, I'm very much a novice with Blender :)

I simply assumed that "inset faces" was intended for either a single face or a group of faces and "inset polygon"  was intended for a single face only.  They have different effects and the "I" key does the same as the "inset faces" tool.  As I see it, it is working as intended - could be wrong,though, I'm very much a novice with Blender :)

Well, the hotkey is working as intended, however if you invoke the operation using the Toolshelf button on a group of faces, it creates extra edges which are certainly not intended as part of the inset process.  As Maxxxmodelz showed in the examples he posted, these extra edges cause topology problems, and make the operation useless on groups of polygons, if you use it from the Toolshelf button.  Most people use the hotkey "I" , so it doesn't matter much, unless you're new to the software; in which case, someone might mistakenly assume the entire feature is broken.

Ah, thanks guys.  I didn't try it since upgrading until now.  Yeah, it's still buggy.  There's no way this was how it was intended to work, because the geometry it creates is full of errors.  The extra edges overlap the faces, causing crossing normals, and just messy geometry.  The keyboard shortcut works fine, so it's not a dealbreaker by any means.  You just gotta know to avoid the button when you're insetting poly groups.  That also proves that the inset issue which happens from the button can not be intentional, because the keyboard shortcut works perfectly for the same process.  I suppose that's why it's gone unfixed for so long.  It's an issue which doesn't impact workflow at all, and most people probably never notice it.  I would like to see them fix this, because it just appears sloppy to leave a bug go, regardless of it's impact.  I've always been a loud advocate of bug fixing in 3dsmax, even when they were minor, or posed no impact to workflow.

Happy Easter, everyone!

Maxxx, I believe Roygee is correct here.  The Inset Faces button/function has been used as the tool for insetting polygon groups of faces in Blender, since 2.6.  While the original Inset Polygon addon was introduced in 2.63, it was never intended to create the inset type you're expecting from the 3dsmax Inset workflow.  It's a bit confusing, but Inset Polygon is not the tool to use for face groups, but the hotkey still works correctly because it's been seamlessly assigned to Inset Faces since Blender 2.6.  Unlike in 3dsmax, in Blender, there are two completely unique inset tools, which are intended for different objectives.

Maxxx, I believe Roygee is correct here.  The Inset Faces button/function has been used as the tool for insetting polygon groups of faces in Blender, since 2.6.  While the original Inset Polygon addon was introduced in 2.63, it was never intended to create the inset type you're expecting from the 3dsmax Inset workflow.  It's a bit confusing, but Inset Polygon is not the tool to use for face groups, but the hotkey still works correctly because it's been seamlessly assigned to Inset Faces since Blender 2.6.  Unlike in 3dsmax, in Blender, there are two completely unique inset tools, which are intended for different objectives.

Aaaahhhh.  Now I get it.  Ok, I see now that these are actually two different tools here.  However, I think that the REGION function of the Inset Polygon is still broken, Lux.  Consider the fact that the tool is supposed to be used to create an inset region, not just on individal polygons, but also regions of selected faces.  I'm not sure the difference between that, and the Inset Faces tool, but it's definitely confusing here.  The extra edges are created even with "region" selection on, which can't be correct. I wasn't aware that the Inset Faces operation was the one actually associated with the "I" keyboard shortcut, but now I do see that.  However, the "region" function of the Inset Polygon tool is supposed to behave very similarly to that.  I'm not sure why it exists, if the inset faces option is actually the one which works the way we would expect in that case.  Just trying to figure out why that is, so that I can use the tools as properly as possible in my work.

Have you reported the bug?  It's not very useful to report bugs to a forum that has absolutely nothing to do with the Blender Foundation.  And it's really easy to report Blender bugs.  In my experience, if it's simple they fix it in hours.  The one time they didn't, they still told me what they were planning to do.

Oh, and just to say, I use inset all the time without problems.  I don't think I've seen the tool you're talking about.

Have you reported the bug?  It's not very useful to report bugs to a forum that has absolutely nothing to do with the Blender Foundation.  And it's really easy to report Blender bugs.  In my experience, if it's simple they fix it in hours.  The one time they didn't, they still told me what they were planning to do.

Oh, and just to say, I use inset all the time without problems.  I don't think I've seen the tool you're talking about.

Hi, KK.  I prefer to verify what I am experiencing is in fact a bug, before I go reporting anything, which is why I posted here to begin with.  If you read this thread in it's entirety, you'll see that what I considered a possible bug early on, may actually be the way that particular tool works, because it's not necessarily intended for the modelling operation I was using it for.  The confusion being, there are two different inset tools in Blender, which seem to be intended for different results or purposes.  The tool i was originally referring to was the "Inset Polygon" tool, which needs to be enabled in preferences before it shows up in the Tools panel at the left of the Blender UI.  As Luxxeon and Roygee have kindly pointed out, this is NOT the same tool which gets called upon from the hotkey, "I".   The inset tool you are using, most likely, is in fact the "Inset Faces" tool, which I'm assuming has replaced the Inset Polygon tool in recent versions, and is assigned to the default inset hotkey.

Oh, I don't actually think it would be a problem given how you've detailed it.  It's exactly what they look for, though they take .blend files demonstrating the problem so it's simpler than a series of screenshots.  If they don't consider it an issue, they tell you (and very politely, too).  The big discouragement is against multiple reports of the same bug (regardless of whether it's a bug or something they're leaving for now).  As long as you make sure it's not reported already, I doubt it will be an issue either way.  And even if that's not the way that particular inset tool is meant to be used, it's still a bug.  It's just a UI one instead of code. :)

Oh, I don't actually think it would be a problem given how you've detailed it.  I did read the thread, and that's why I suggested it.  This is a lot of debate and back and forth.  It's a lot simpler when you just tell them your problem, your version, your OS, etc. and let them respond.  Which you've already done so neatly here.  It's exactly what they look for, though they take .blend files demonstrating the problem so it's simpler than a series of screenshots.  If they don't consider it an issue they want to address right now, they tell you (and very politely, too, at least in my experience).  The big discouragement is against multiple reports of the same bug (regardless of whether it's a bug or something they're leaving for now).  As long as you make sure it's not reported already, I doubt it will be an issue either way.  And even if that's not the way that particular inset tool is meant to be used, it's still a bug.  It's just a UI one instead of code. :)