Hi

I've been wondering about this for a while.

I've searched but either I'm not looking for the right thing, or it isn't an option.

What I'm talking about it actually making a prop part to the figure not just parented to it.

Here's a simple example of what I'm talking about.

Say you have a zeroed figure, and you put a Torus around the arm like a bracelet or arm ring.

Now when animating even the parented objects tend to move or get distorted.

What I want to know is there a process that would make this prop an actual part of the figure so that whatever the figure does the prop now part of the figure adopts all the characteristics of the model, and is no longer seen as a separate object?

On a more complex level, I'd love to be able to do this with clothing so that I don't have to constantly fight the battle of making the clothes move with the figure.

In other words I'd like to be able to create something like Casual James which has the clothing integrated into the figure, but with my choice of clothing.

Any information appreciated. 

Mike

What tools do you have?

This is possible using Blender and cr2editor. (also free)

(Disclaimer: Just my own skill level and knowledge here, there may be other ways)

On a basic level, you can do this (just tried it).
There are however a lot of caveats that come with this method.

I tried it with a wristwatch, and here's what I did:

• I added the wristwatch, and then exported the left forearm (to which it is attached) and the wristwatch as a single Wavefront object. Keep everything unchecked in the export options except "Include existing groups in polygon groups" and "Preserve existing material names".
  EDIT: And make sure that you figure is absolutely zeroed before exporting - no morphs, no scales, no anything else!
• Then I deleted the original wristwatch from the figure and reimported the object I had created before.
  A forearm with the wristwatch should load, in the same place as the figure's forearm.
• Select the figures's left forearm, then from Poser "Object" menu select "Replace Body Part with Prop".
  The original forearm will be replaced with your forearm with the watch.

That was the easy part.

BUT: =====

Because the watch is now a part of the forearm geometry, the bending of joints will affect the watch too!
This might not be a problem in case of the strap, but you certainly don't want the casing to bend and deform with the wrist joint!
So you'll have to edit the joint zones in question, and traditional rigging would lead you nowhere here. You'll have to use weight maps.
Like this, I think you could weight map the watch casing in a way that it moves along with the strap, while keeping it's rigid shape. Interesting challenge, and probably worth looking further into.

Yet, there's a much bigger problem:
Because of the different poly count, all morphs that were in the original forearm are lost!
You can bring them back if you load another, identical figure which still has it's original forearm with the working morphs, and just use the "Copy Morphs From..." Poser Menu Command to copy the forearm morphs into your modified figure.
BUT (there's a lot of "but", I know...):
Poser does copy the morphs (in sometimes questionable quality, so check each morph for irregularities after copying!).
But it does not copy the dependencies, if there are any. So spinning the "forearm thickness" dial in the BODY actor won't affect the (new) left forearm morphs.
You can remedy that by either setting all morph dials in the forearm manually, or you must edit the cr2 file and recode the dependencies, one by one.
Quite a job to do...

Yet, there's another "BUT": Though it's improbable in the case of a forearm which is rather neglected by *Third Party Morph Injections" which use pmd files, it might become an issue in other body parts:
Because of the differing poly count, those morph injections won't work on the, your modified, body part, so it starts all over again: Load a figure duplicate, inject the morphs there, copy them to your new figure, resurrect dependencies...

How all this could work with clothing, I have no idea. But given the amount of work necessary only for that stupid wristwatch, I doubt that it's a practical way to go at all.
Maybe in a future "PP2525, if man is still alive" :D

HTH
Peter

Hi

Thanks for the information, I'll have a look at doing something simple but as you said, it seems pretty tough.

I also have Blacksmith 3D I wonder it that has some use in trying to do this.

I've had it for a long time but not used it enough to really get a good idea of what it can do when it comes to modifying or combining objects.

Mike

Mike,

I don't have Blacksmith so I don't know what this program can actually do.
Creating a geometry that has all the necessary extra polygons included isn't the problem.

The problem is, as I wrote in my post, to adapt the joint zones and to bring back the morphs.
However, if all that Blacksmith (or any other external modeler) can do is creating a Wavefront object which is imported back into Poser as either a morph or (in my suggestion) a body part replacement, then I'm afraid that, in order to integrate it into your figure, you'll have to resort to the tools which Poser currently has. (And some are really magnificent)

Of course, if Blacksmith has the tools to make the projected modifications and then export it as a "Poser-ready cr2 figure", that would be a completely different story (and a serious reason for me to consider buying Blacksmith).

Because, you see, I've been fiddling with what you suggest in your OP, for some time too.
(Though my motives may differ: being a little pervert ;) , I rather think of nipple rings and other body piercings to stay in place, no matter how the body bends...)

So let's see if there are other suggestions posted. This could become very interesting because it once more pushes Poser 3D to the limits.

Peter

If you have PP14 Game Dev, can't you decimate the clothing and props to a single figure?

If you don't have PP14GD, then, sorry, I'm no help at all.  It was just a thought.......

A parented prop is placed in relation to the body part its parented too. I dont remember offhand if its origin or center. *If the body part is morphed the position of the parented prop wont move. You can do a master/slave dial  to react to the morph channel and move the prop.

For things like watches there is the "adopt bends of parent" or somesuch which might be useful.

This keeps being discussed but there seems to be no real solution yet.   There were some scripts written to keep the prop at a specific vertex but they were a bit tedious to use.

glitteraty,
This may work with clothing (clueless because I only have PP2014), but when it comes to complex objects it's different (In my example, I chose the wristwatch for a reason because it incorporates rigid and deformable parts at the same time).

I don't think that it will work well with rigid objects, and I also suppose (note well!) that the decimation tool doesn't provide options for rigid objects.
So it's back to good old handicraft...

Peter

A parented prop is placed in relation to the body part its parented too. I dont remember offhand if its origin or center. *If the body part is morphed the position of the parented prop wont move. You can do a master/slave dial  to react to the morph channel and move the prop.

For things like watches there is the "adopt bends of parent" or somesuch which might be useful.

This keeps being discussed but there seems to be no real solution yet.   There were some scripts written to keep the prop at a specific vertex but they were a bit tedious to use.

It's inherit bends of parent, and it works quite well with things like armor and such.  It does not, however, work well with some weight mapped figures.  I do know that inherit bends does not work with Dusk, but I don't know how well it works with SM figures like Roxie and Miki4 as I have never tested it.

glitteraty,
This may work with clothing (clueless because I only have PP2014), but when it comes to complex objects it's different (In my example, I chose the wristwatch for a reason because it incorporates rigid and deformable parts at the same time).

I don't think that it will work well with rigid objects, and I also suppose (note well!) that the decimation tool doesn't provide options for rigid objects.
So it's back to good old handicraft...

Peter

Peter, I don't think the decimation process has any ability to determine between rigid and soft.  As I understand it, it removes the polygons which intersect, so I doubt these issues have any detriment at all.  After all, lots of figures dressed in armor and such appear in game engines, do they not?

I have PP14, but not game dev.  I simply don't do games, so I have no reason to upgrade to it.

What I have done in the past is load the prop to the figure. I pose the figure and export out the body part the prop is on and the prop itself. For example; the watch is on the right wrist so I would export out the right arm and watch in the posed position. Then I go into Hexagon or Silo (depends on my mood) and 'lock' the arm so I don't make any changes to it and I re-sculpt the item to fit more natural to the arm. I make sure I don't add or delete any polygons or vertices so when I'm done I can export the sculpted item back out (just the prop) and I load that into Poser as a morph. So then in my original scene I can dial the morph on the prop and it fits nicely to the figure.

If the prop is going to be on the figure in several different poses than you would have to repeat the process of course and that can be time consuming. You can do the same for clothing as well. 

Hi

That's the problem, my reason for wanting to do this is to make animation easier when a lot of attached items are on the figure.

It's hard to do a clip of 2 or 3 thousand frames and not have issues with the clothing or whatever not moving correctly with the figure.

I'm looking for a way to tie them together so they really move as or are one piece.

Like Casual Jessie who has all the clothes as part of the character, I'm guessing this is above my skill level.

Mike

.

This is partialy what PP2014 GD is about.

it has the option to combine figures, and an extra option to lower the polgygon count of the combined figure.

Load your figure, drag-drop one or more conforming clothing item(s) over it, and click on "combine figures".
Now you have a single- clothed figure.

Then for Game or animation purposes, you can use the "reduce polygon" option to lower the polygon count to enhance the animation speed and / or the speed in Games.

Or?
Use Blender to combine the figure and the clothing items into a single object file. Depending on what items you are combining, you might have to edit the groups again.
Then edit a blank cr2 to point both paths in the cr2 to this new "combined" obj file.

Polygon count WILL change so the Original morphs will not work any more.
And you would need the "copy morphs from" function in Poser to get the morphs back into the combined figure.  

It's inherit bends of parent, and it works quite well with things like armor and such.  It does not, however, work well with some weight mapped figures.  I do know that inherit bends does not work with Dusk, but I don't know how well it works with SM figures like Roxie and Miki4 as I have never tested it.

The issue is that the prop is parented to the bone, but the mesh can move independently of the bone in a weightmapped figure.  One can make the prop into a conforming figure, but it then will distort as the mesh deforms, which would be a problem in the case of a ring bracelet or the face of a watch...

Maybe obsessively overthinking this? Even with clothing that is integrated into the figure you find the typical deformations in the mesh as you would with conformers (except for poke through, of course)... using game meshes as the example you find this too. The only viable options are the ones that are already in place. Doesn't hurt to dream, though.