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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 28 11:20 am)
Subject: OT :Hinders ,New album ,When The Smoke Clears
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Just so you know, they're blocking it outside the US, which is kinda pointelss if they're trying to sell some music :-D
Sure I could use a proxy but I'm not going to bother. Makes me wonder when it's going to dawn upon these companies that all they need to do to avoid this locale-based licencing bullshit, is make it part of their terms of service that all uploads will be available worldwide. It's easy to get around this manipulative bullshit, but it still makes my blood boil that musicians support distributors with such pointless, sales-damaging locale based service agreements in place.
Yeah that's buggin me too. Got stuck on watchin clips of this british series thanks to youtube and was tryin to find links for where I could watch full episodes but keep runnin into roadblocks cause it's not available in the states. Maybe it's on netflix but i doubt it. Was mainly just interested in the two characters cause it was a pretty sad storyline, but now I'm hooked on the whole damned show. lol.
I just found a couple of songs from the album on YouTube, sounds a bit swingy for that sort of music (if that's the right word). I like the sound, but I don't like the style for that sound because it sounds too happy to belong to those tones. Bear in mind I don't even know enough about this music to know the exact genre of those tracks.
Out of curiosity, what genre (or subgenre) is it?
I noticed there's quite a few when it comes to Metal.
It does sound commercial, quite polished.
BTW, liked the Gojira track, doesn't sound too weedy like a lot of that stuff does, and at least whoever mastered it had the sense to scoop the mids. You should try listening to some of this stuff on monitoring headphones, bloody awful some of it, but that Gojira track was pretty full sounding.
Mmmm, I have a fondness for good production in that I listen to a vast scope of musical styles. The production needs to serve the intent of the art, for instance many types of extreme music utilize a calculatedly terrible sounding production deliberately; Black Metal, Grindcore, Crusty Punk, Sludge, Drone, and Japanese Noisecore come to mind. It was something that was unintentional in classics of the genres, but as time went on it became adopted as a kind of deliberate aural color palette.
I know, but I hate to hear Metal when it's thin and weedy sounding or too polished, sounds better thick and solid. A lot of those Metal bands sound ok on general listening headphones, but put them though monitoring headphones and it can turn unbearably nasty. The Gojira track sounds surprisingly good even on the monitors which is pretty rare with Metal music such as that (that's a compliment).
To me, Pop music generally sounds better polished, but Metal should have lead balls and be held together with grit, and the last thing you want for "lead balls" is excessive mids washing over it. Classical and Orchestral is a measured mixture of the two and sounds like shit if it's not approached in elements (IE: a bass needs it's bass, but triangles and tambourines need air). Rock falls somewhere between Pop and Metal when it sounds good.
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it's a Gibson flying V
I have a hard time finding 2015's music like music I listen to back in the day but
hinder's when the smoke clears full cd
is close.
I really like hinders songs
you all can call it what ever ya want we didn't have 10 million genres
it was country,top 40,rock ,hard rock ,Ozzy was what we called metal back then.
I just call hinder rock.
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@RorrKonn
Didn't see that full album upload, I'll listen to ya album later then. So what is it that causes people to think of Rock as Metal or get confused? And before you say 'not knowing the genres', I know that (which I don't), and I hardly take notice of genres anyway, but to be fair there's so many now it's just ... lol. Rock didn't even enter my head when I heard a couple of their tracks, so there's either something Metal about them or maybe they're doing something not usually done in Rock music.
I can't remember exacty what video it was in, but you're no doubt aware of Infidelamsterdam on YouTube, and there's a video where he talks about subgenres. Sounds like he has the same opinion as you (and me) - there's too many subgenres now.
@DeathMetalDesk
I like Ambient and Industrial, but not folk - but I don't dislike Folk - I just don't listen to it. The real wrist-cutter for me is Gospel music, I absolutely cannot stand Gospel music, I f*cking hate it with a vengeance! It's like everyone has been given a happy-pill and, on command, they all start moving around frantically like someone let a scorpian loose in their pants - and the bit inbetween the first and last note is some kind of hell - a very different hell to a likeable hell. I actually sat and thought once (yeah I know), I wondered to myself, other than physical pain, what could be worse than being shoved into a room and forced to listen to Gospel with some headphones strapped to your head so that they can't be removed no matter how hard you try.
Scary stuff.
@Razor
Steel Panther - Seemed like the same sort of style RorrKonn posted.
Behemoth - That's more like it, that's a lot more like the chords and tones I expect when I think "Metal" - and the video was fantastic!
Trivium - Sounds a bit teenish, like a version of Steel Panther but for a younger audience (maybe the vocal though, I dunno).
Liking your carefully modified avatar!
I like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIvSXocE6YY
religion music is the only ones that follow the 5th with the 4th is why it sounds like it does
I don't care what genres it is if I like it I like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSgsW9GLerA
stay off religion or they lock the thread
ya done got 5 or more of my threads lock it gets old.
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The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
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@RorrKonn
They're not going to lock your thread just because I said I don't like Gospel, it's a musical non-preference nothing to do with religion :-D
Couldn't give a crap that Gospel is connected to religion (wouldn't make me like it any more or any less). I think Gospel is erratic, irritating shit cause that's exactly what it sounds like to me. Anyway, I told you about that last time, going on about me getting your threads locked. I don't get your threads locked, people with thin-skins lock them!
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The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
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@RorrKonn
Yeah, well you needed to post something after that little rant, you grumpy old fart ;-)
But yup, pretty sure I'd stay till the end as well.
It's not Metal, but here's a little something to thank you for the babes - it's got hot 'Retro Babes' in it (one of my fave subjects). It's been known to turn Metal Heads into Disco Dancers. Click to view it on YouTube though, it's much more bouncy in Full Screen mode :-P
@DMD
Well, I searched it on YouTube and the thumbnail looked interesting, but it's age restricted. Apparently logging in to YouTube proves to them you're an adult even though it does nothing of the sort (it's just datamining). So, me being me (and not being dumb enought to sign up to anything Google operates), I just searched on Vimeo instead and found it there, unrestricted, using their better quality player and they didn't pretend to need to know my age (thankyou Vimeo). Anyway, I liked the first half for obvious reasons, but you can keep the second half!
BTW, those links you posted earlier, you added an image to it, is that the new art you were working on?
At the time, I thought it was one of the covers of the albums you were linking to, never entered my head it might be your new piece. Anyway, it looks like a fight, and someone trying to get out of the way - definitely looks original :-)
@deathmetaldesk That was a pretty decent track actually. I rather liked it.
@pumeco - ever come across Meshuggah? You might like them if you like Behemoth
I love me some metal - been listening to thrash metal for about 30 years now :) I remember when Tom Araya of Slayer actually looked young!
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@Frank
Yup, I've heard a few of theirs, there's even one posted in this thread (or was it the other thread) - either RorrKonn or DMD posted one.
Have to say I prefer Behemoth, both the sound and the style, I'm not sure what it's technically called, but I like Doom Metal crossed with Death Metal, and the more melodic it is, the better, just as long as the chords stay dramatic and doomy sounding - happy sounding Metal just doesn't work for me - don't like it. I don't know what you four would make of this album (Psalms for The Dead) but I quite like it, almost all the songs on it are either good or decent (and the audio aspect is good as well). The only thing that's not ideal is the vocal, it's ok, but I'd love to hear an album like this but with a more growly vocal - that would be awesome - a vocal somewhere between Death Metal and, well, I dunno, standard Metal if there is such a thing (like I said, I'm clueless regards all that genre stuff):
But I'm pretty new to all this Metal stuff, I really only started getting into it a few years ago, and to be honest, I was never really a fan of it at all before then. I don't know what happened exactly, but I think it was a combination of a conversation I had with someone I enjoyed discussing with on DAZ, combined with a video I saw that got me into it. I used to see Metal as an excuse for not being able to play (lol), and I think that might be what subconsciously kept me away from it. Of course, I then came across a video about Death Metal (I think it was Death Metal), and gained a lot of respect for what they do after that. I couldn't have been more wrong if I tired, those Metal artists are insanely talented, the speed they play, the riffs etc - bloody hell. So I started listening to more and more of it, and then stumbled upon one of Infidelamsterdam's videos and have been interested in Metal ever since. I look forward to his videos every week, month, or whatever, seeing his Metal reviews, especially those new Vinyl Release specials he does, and not forgetting "Baldrick" of course (lol).
Anyway, crap, I'm rabbiting-on again.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XVo8GXvR-AM
Fantomas cover of the Omen score Ave Satani. Fantomas are a project band of Mike Patton (Faith No More, Mr.Bungle), Buzz Osbourne (the Melvins), and Dave Lombardo (Slayer). They're an experimental metal/punk band. The track is from the album the Director's Cut, which is brilliant IMO...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vACkkDxr41U
Pumeco, you might like early Opeth... They're a progressive Death Metal band that frequently uses clean and gutteral vocals, nice production, and varied composition styles and instrumentation. Here's a more recent video that utilizes this style
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5LRReFYus
I tried to find a link for one of their earlier records, BlackWater Park, but no luck...If you come across it you should give it a listen.
I hesitate to join this coversation, but I am an '80's Metal Child (oh, yeah, they call it Hair Metal now, right?) I haven't found much that I like these last ten years, I kind of stick to the bands that I knew back then (Although I like one song by Sirenia called The Other Side). So I thought I'd drop you a couple of youtube links.
And one of my all time favorites....
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
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Latexluv, W.A.S.P was an OK party metal band back in the day... used to have 'Fuck Like a Beast' when I was a teenager. I was more into bands like old Metallica, Megadeth, Celtic Frost, Slayer, Venom, etc. I was kind of an oddity to my friends, used to hang out with the druggies and local club band crowd, as I also listened to a lot of Punk, Post Punk, Art Rock, No Wave, etc. I was the guy who always got wrangled into creating gig fliers.
Yeah, No Wave (not to be confused with new wave). As an aside to RorrKonn, just because you weren't aware of all the many genres, doesn't mean they didn't exist back then. ;)
OK, bad analogy with the TV thing... I'm one of those pretentious weirdos who doesn't watch it, other than "films". Truly ironic considering that the couple I share a house with have every single channel there is linked to every room in the house and I have a giant flat screen Samsung in my room.
seriously though, you should see the two I live with (known them since high-school, bout 30 years)... you walk into the living room and they have the TV on, two IPads on, 2 smart phones on, and a desktop going. All of which they are multi tasking with simultaneously, Lol, bizarre. This is every night.
Anyway, rambling, got to love caffeine... back to my overelaborate Poser scene.
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OK, grab a coffee time again (long post warning) :-P
Just listened to every link posted apart from that full album, which I couldn't listen to for reasons I'll try to explain. The last bunch of stuff that was posted sounded very "Rock" to me. One thing I know for sure regards my preferences when it comes to Metal (and this applies to the way I see pretty much anything really), is that I've never been fond of what I call the 'middle ground'. What I mean by "middle ground" is that 9 out of 10 times I'm drawn to either extreme, and Rock, although it generally sounds great, just has that aspect to it where it's neither nasty enough or happy enough, and nasty and happy don't work together. I'm one of those who really is not very fond of Rock in general, and when it creeps into Metal, it can get annoying to the point where I start to get fed-up or bored with it (almost always as soon as the song starts).
When it comes to Metal, I like it for the nastiness in an audible, lyrical, and visual sense - so anything that misses the mark there is generally a fail for me. I see it as an extreme genre, a genre at the dark end of the spectrum, so that's how I expect it to be, I don't expect to hear a whiney Rock-style vocal in Death Metal or any other similar subgenre.
My ideal Metal is as follows:
- Must not be posers.
- Must not be tainted by commercialism at all.
- Must have a total disrecard for political correctness and speak their mind (truthfully).
- Must be capable of using their music to speak their mind (the super-talented can do that even without a vocal).
- Must not have a whiney Rock vocal.
- Must have a genuine seriousness about them.
That last one is actually very important to me with this stuff, cause shocking as it might sound, I like to think of true Death or Black Metal artists as real deviants in one way or another, and it feels like I'm being mocked if I listen to some band, like what they did, then watch an interview with them only to find out they're actually a bunch of pussies when you hear about their real take on things. I mean I realise this stuff for the most part is entertainment, but for me, the really interesting ones are the ones that are real deviants in one way or another, and their music and image reflects the sort of deviant they are. There is an endless amount of music made by normal people, I want to hear something produced by a genuine deviant for a change. So it's good (and I'm glad) that I started to listen to Metal, but at the same time it's fucking irritating that a genre with they typical sound that Metal has, is populated by so many posers, pussies, whatever you want to call them - just seems such a waste of a suitable-sounding gerne.
I hate feeling like I got shafted by 'posers' when I happen to like something they did, only to discover they're really just another bunch of pussies who are just playing on the 'image' of being deviant - pathetic twats. I hate them because during my research into this stuff, I've stumbled across people who I'm convinced are real deviants, and deviants fascinate me in the same way documentaries about serial killers etc fascinate me. The way I see it is there's Disco if you wanna dance (and I like Disco). Then there's that Gospel shit if you fancy cutting your wrist, and there's true Deviant Metal created by true deviants if you want something genuine.
I hereby pen the term "Deviant Metal", and as the dude that penned the term, I get to decide what is and isn't worthy of it.
Point out the true deviants to me, those that deserve to fall under the Genre "Deviant Metal" - strictly no posers or pussies allowed.
Here's a fascinating artist, ildjarn, first track I heard of his was this one (and it's still my favourite)
Listen carefully even if you don't like it, don't be tempted to stop it (trust me):
Hear it? ... Check out the chords used over time, and the timing of them changing, that atmosphere, that is one of the most original Metal tracks I heard ever since I started listening to the stuff - I absolutely love that one - doesn't even have a vocal -doesnlt need one, the chords speak for themselves. I was literally just trawling through YouTube at the time, hoping I'd find something that had "something". You'll either get what I'm talking about regards the chords and the atmosphere it creates, or you won't, but I've yet to come across another artist who does that sort of thing in the way ildjarn does. I'm not even going to try explaining it, because I can't other than I like the way an intense wall of sound and atmosphere is built, while still being concious of the changes just enough for it to not become static - it's very odd. Theres some very sublte changes going on even when the main chords aren't changing. No doubt a lot of people would play his stuff and think 'what a fucking noise'. To those people, they should listen again and ask themselves if they hear anything other than anger - cause I can't - and there's not a whif of commercialism in there - it has a real sense of sincerity about it - a dark sincerity.
So I thought, yup, nice, and started listening to more of his stuff, and that led to me looking for an interview. I still have it on a disc somewhere, an interview with him that was downloadable as a PDF, and guess what, lol, the guy is clearly a deviant, not some pussy being a poser. If his music doesn't factinate you, I'm sure his interview will, I'll try to find it and post it later - it's better than the interviews posted on the net.
But that track right there, that has manace and atmosphere - I love that track. Didn't really want to bring this side of Metal into the discussion because for one, my idea of the ideal Metal band kinda sounds dodgy, and to be perfectly honest with you, I find the vast majority of Metal out there to be a piss-take, and that puts me in a prime position for pissing those off who like Rock etc - and that's almost all of you . Almost everything that has been posted (including that Candelmess track I posted) have a hint of Rock to them. Ildjarn is the exact opposite, I like ildjarn, I don't feel like the music is part-passion, part-mockery when I listen to ildjarn, I feel like I heard something genuine - it's all passion, no mockery.
Don't like Rock creeping into Metal any more than I like Dub-Step creeping into Disco. Anyway, sorry for babbling-on again (but I did advise a coffee), but as you've all been good enough to offer suggestions, it seems only fair to be up-front about what I was after. I want to hear the work of real deviants who make music and know how to translate themselves into a musical form. That can really only work if there's no mockery in what they're doing, pretending to be and to write about what they really have no real notion about.
I have a strict like for Metal - "Deviant Metal".
You like that?
Listen to this... it's a 21 minute long track though.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbhlzTbJBoQ
Meshuggah, I.
You would probably like this record, Swedish Grindcore; Nasum.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HtucQjYa7Mc
Very crusty and pummeling.
My homegirl, Diamanda Galas...
Not metal but extreme and deviant; the Litanies of Satan. A true classic, great for putting conformists on edge.
Another frightening deviant classic, Suicide; Frankie Teardrop
... and finally, Merzbow's uncomfortable classic, Venereology
Interestingly - once I got into metal, the first album I got was by Deep Purple and then I went straight to Slayer and Thrash/Black metal.
You might want to listen to Otep and see if she fits your bill :)
This has been a most enlightening thread - I have lots of new stuff to listen to! I also have to go find some Venom tracks on YouTube :)
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@Primorge
Well, I've just sat through the first one, Meshuggah, and while there's some serious talent going on, you either didn't take my previous post seriously, or you didn't understand the emphasis I put on the music being the output of a true deviant. I'm about to listen to the others you posted and maybe I'll find something I like, but while I do that, do me a favour and try this (I mean actually try this):
Open two extra tabs on your browser and go to Google Images (not Google Web, I said Google Images).
- First type "Meshuggah" into one of the tabs and take-in the images that pop-up.
- Now type "ildjarn" into the other tab, and again, take-in the images.
See the difference?
Meshuggah (to me) are a talented band but they're doing what almost all of them do, very commercial, acting the hard-nut but I'm guessing, just looking at them that it's the typical 'front' the majority of those bands put-on to look tough. With the ildjarn results it takes about a second to realise that there's none of that going on - absolutely none of it. You'll see someone who puts out his music and doesn't try to add anything to it, cause he doesn't need to, he's a deviant, no mockery required, and couldn't care less how many albums he sells casue he's not in it for the money.
YouTube "ildjarn" and you'll find forests, hills, nature - not 'tough-guy' commercialism.
Now YouTube Meshuggah, see what I'm getting at?
So yup, my opinion so far is that Meshuggah are talented (obviously), but they don't appear to be true deviants. These things are important to me with this type of music, and like I said, I don't get the feeling of being mocked when I listen to ildjarn, his music isn't a 'front' to try and look tough, he doesn't need to do that, he's one who is clearly a deviant, his music is therefore the work of a deviant - and that's what I want to hear, something that came from the mind of a true deviant.
Ildjarn is clearly a non-conformist, I know one when I see one.
Click here for a tame interview by ildjarn standards, and let's compare it to even the heaviest you can find from Meshuggah.
Well take it from there who's actually producing "elevator" music, just sayin' ;-)
PS: Something tells you didn't play the ildjarn track right though.
PPS: This was supposed to be a short post, I cannot help myself, sorry.
Ha! Pumeco, I was familiar with the whole norwegian black metal thing when you were in diapers... novelty to you does not mean it has lasting artistic value, something you will discover as time goes on. You are sorely out of your depth if you choose to debate this with me. Bottom line; ildjarn, mayhem, burzum, nidhog, gorgoroth and their ilk in general are mediocre musicians at best from a creative and playing standpoint. from an intellectual standpoint there was nothing in that interview or any others that revealed anything that I didn't already know; Ildjarn and associated cronies are morons who've latched on to straw horse ideologies such as watered down satanic pseudo mysticism and confused national pride mixed with troglodytic neo-nazism.
They're not deviants, Pumeco, they're confused idiots with guitars trapped in some backwater looking for attention in all the wrong ways. Besides, finding soft brained deviants is easy to do... just look in any alley or all night porn theater. Doesn't mean I would want to listen to their nonsensical ramblings and fabricate some significant meaning just because I'm feeling misunderstood by the world.
Ah, so we're talking the types of metal where you can't hear the lyrics at all because the vocalist ran sandpaper across his larynx a few times and then crushed his throat against the mic stand. Returning to lurk mode while I listen to something classic.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
I'm a word person, because I was a novelist (haven't been able to write much since my parents died), so I have to be able to hear the lyrics and I especially like good turns of phrase or descriptic phrase. There's a good one in "The Heretic" by WASP. Blackie Lawless has unfortunately on more recent albums had, IMO, bad production where the music overwhelms the lyrics. And like you Primorge, I haven't heard much anything good since the mid- 1990's, especially with rap taking over just about everything. There are a few songs by 69 Eyes that I liked and have in my playlist and that one song by Sirenia (their lable seems to be "Goth Metal" or "Symphonic Metal"). I do like two albums by Metallica but their attitudes toward their fans leaves much to be desired.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
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When The Smoke Clears
============================================================
The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance