Wow, you guys have been busy.

Placing DS and Poser into a "Budget" category is quite misleading to say the least. The word budget usually carries a cheap substance as well as price connotation imo. I would call this budget software an offering from Smith Micro. There is no reason to have to create everything in DS or Poser from scratch to get the most out of the software. It's like with Photoshop for example if you were to use some of the included brushes as oppose to making your own brush sets, is it cheating or not getting the most from the app, should you learn to write your own filters to. I don't see why as all of these apps are simply tools. The intention of DS or Poser is to be a specific tool and to compare Max or Mudbox is similar to comparing a hammer to a spirit level. Try banging in a nail with a spirit level and then exclaiming "this tool is useless compared to a hammer". Seems more user error than any problem with the tool tbh. If you're using DS or Poser to create reference images as an illustrator why in the slightest would you be interested in learning how to rig or paint weight maps for figure development. The whole notion that you need to create your own content to get the best out of an app is inherently flawed, it's kind of like saying if you want to drive your car you need to make your own tools to fix it with or it's just cheating. A car's job is to get you from A to B, the level of technical expertise or the amount of petrol that flows in your blood doesn't actually affect the effectiveness of the car as a transportation tool. Despite what some may say.

I would prefer Daz to focus on software development rather than writing old fashioned biblical manuals. Which may be okay if you release a new version of software every few years. But at the rate that DS is upgraded it would be an exercise in chasing your tail at best. And really with active forums, it's quite unnecessary for the majority of users these days.

Razor42 comparing one cgi app that rigs poses n renders characters to another cgi app that rigs poses n renders characters.
is the same as comparing estwing hammers to a craftsman hammers.

I never said ya need to make ya own content.I said

only in the daz poser forums do ya hear this character is broke or it's not right or this n that is wrong.
never do ya hear it in a max,maya,C4D,zbrush etc etc forums.
you have the same tools as every one else in daz poser to rig it just the way you like it.
you have a selection of CGI App's to map,texture any daz poser character anyway ya want.
you have a selection of CGI App's to model ya daz poser character just the way ya want.

in other words fussing not going to fix anything but ya tools will.

The issue isn't with the similarity in purpose/capability, its the difference in market.

Its the same with everything else you have mentioned. The average Poser user would not even attempt a Re-rig of a commercial figure. If you buy a figure for $50 you would expect if to be fully functional in the intended app and not requiring any additional work to reach expected or stated levels of functionality. The intended market for the other apps is more aimed at the content creator market not at the ready to render market.

A reflex hammer and Sledge hammer are both hammers but intended for different uses and different markets.

Maybe my tool metaphor isn't helping things here.

What I mean is why would you expect someone who uses Poser specifically to render out Illustration References to take on re-rigging a figure if the anatomy doesn't bend correctly. It would mean learning a whole wealth of information outside of the intended use of the App just to get something to work as advertised. The whole reason of buying an out of the box solution, render to render figure, is that the purchaser doesn't know how or isn't interested in learning how to rerigg something. Or doesn't feel the need to spend hours doing something that can be bought for a reasonable investment.

If I hire a car and it's got a flat tire I don't think 'wow here is an opportunity to expand my knowledge on automobile maintenance'. Again with the metaphors lol.

The reason you see different complaints re figures here and not other forums is again due to the different market and reason for purchase.

Maybe my tool metaphor isn't helping things here.

What I mean is why would you expect someone who uses Poser specifically to render out Illustration References to take on re-rigging a figure if the anatomy doesn't bend correctly. It would mean learning a whole wealth of information outside of the intended use of the App just to get something to work as advertised. The whole reason of buying an out of the box solution, render to render figure, is that the purchaser doesn't know how or isn't interested in learning how to rerigg something. Or doesn't feel the need to spend hours doing something that can be bought for a reasonable investment.

If I hire a car and it's got a flat tire I don't think 'wow here is an opportunity to expand my knowledge on automobile maintenance'. Again with the metaphors lol.

The reason you see different complaints re figures here and not other forums is again due to the different market and reason for purchase.

Well your description describes me very well.  I use Poser for illustration and the fun for me is creating the scene.  I would rather buy in content rather than have to spend months learning to rig a figure when I don't enjoy that aspect.  My car is the same, I have reached the age where rolling around underneath or crawling under the hood is not fun.  I would rather pay someone else to get dirty and cold and service my car, even though I know how to.   Don't get me wrong, I admire those that can rig and develop figures and I understand that, if you are in business, you need to keep learning often just to stand still.  For me though I do Poser for fun and I really don't see why I need to spend my fun time doing things I am not really interested in so I buy content in.

Come to think of it, it is a bit like my dog, I will happily take him for a walk and feed and care for him but if he gets ill I buy in the expertise and take him to the vet.  Dumb as he is I don't think he would like me to start improving my vet skills.

you all want me to see it from yours point of view. I get yours point of view.
yours point of view is we want to buy it out of the box
and since we payed a few dollars for it
we want it to work just like we think it alt to work and we want it to be perfect.
really I get that point of view.I don't agree with it but I get it.

I don't think you all are interested in my point of view but I'm explaining it anyways.
if ya give a few dollars for a mesh and it's not perfect to you
and you refuse to learn the tools to make it perfect to you that's fine use it as is.
but getting on a forum and complaining endlessly about something you refuse to fix just seems ridiculous.

it's as futile as fussing endlessly at ya truck cause it has a flat tire. change the tire or walk.

oh and they did reinvent the wheel radial tires are way better then none radial tube tires that went flat all the time :( .

quote RorrKonn:
"if ya give a few dollars for a mesh and it's not perfect to you and you refuse to learn the tools to make it perfect to you that's fine use it as is. but getting on a forum and complaining endlessly about something you refuse to fix just seems ridiculous. it's as futile as fussing endlessly at ya truck cause it has a flat tire. change the tire or walk."

THAT... -P-

what's "THAT...-P-" mean ?

RorrKonn: I think there's a difference between minor fixes such as a bad bend that can be smoothed the the morph brush and weightmap issues where the figure does the squats and ends up with a bend that looks like she has four buttocks or a genital area that looked like it got shelled by artillery. The latter is really what happened in this thread and I don't think people pay $30-50 for the privilege to fix those issues, much less be told they shouldn't complain if they don't want to learn how to fix it. I think that is a ludicrous position to take and I think that's really what you're missing when you posted. Who exactly pays $30-50 to fix weightmap issues? 

No one.

Ok guys.  Holster your weapons and back away.  Let's have a civil discussion or back off.  Sorry to be so forward, but as you know the TOS is against attacking each other.  We all have differing opinions.  We can discuss without attacking.  A good discussion helps everyone ... a bad one just gets locked down. 

You all seem to forget that onlly the owners of the latest PoserPro versions can "fix" weightmap issues.

Poser9 and Poser 10 users can fix nothing at all.
These versions can "read" a weightmap, but have no tools to fix them.

Rigging issues like these are very- very- serious.

Somebody already said the figure should be pulled from the market, and I fully agree, but Renderosity is not gonna do that. Money rules!!

This tread should have been locked from day 1, and the figure pulled from day 1.

But who cares?

The money is flowing.

In less then a month, nobody will remember her. Who cares, the money is in the pocket.

Ok guys.  Holster your weapons and back away.  Let's have a civil discussion or back off.  Sorry to be so forward, but as you know the TOS is against attacking each other.  We all have differing opinions.  We can discuss without attacking.  A good discussion helps everyone ... a bad one just gets locked down. 

Well I agree on all of that but it is hardly consistent when in another thread there are people tearing each other to shreds and nothing is being done.  The attacks there are way past anything in this thread.

Oh and before someone makes the suggestion I did report it but the report either fell on deaf ears or fell into a black hole.  Of course others might think differently but I would have expected some response if only to say they saw no issue.

Ouch.

We are watching both threads. 

@ RorrKonn:
"what's "THAT...-P-" mean ?"

That's a missing line break. It should read:
"THAT...^
-P-"
and -P- is short signature for "Peter"
-P-

We are watching both threads. 

Which only suggests that personal attacks are now tolerated as the other thread has had precious little else for pages. 

Disagreements aren't personal attacks. And if it's the thread I think you're talking about, yes it has been being cleaned up a bit and monitored.

Just stick with the topic and stop making this about DS vs Poser please.

Disagreements aren't personal attacks. And if it's the thread I think you're talking about, yes it has been being cleaned up a bit and monitored.

Just stick with the topic and stop making this about DS vs Poser please.

Agreed but then calling people names and insulting their intelligence is a personal attack in my book. However the thread does at least appear to be monitored now, I won't add to that in the hope we can let it all calm down, at least for a while. 

pikePit is your name Peter and you was signing your name ?

I know some of you all have unity n unreal.

so if ya was making games meshes for unity,unreal,poser etc etc

what format would ya save normal maps in ? 

Depends, one thing that seems to be unanimous after a little research is that you want to save in a non lossy format... Normal maps are particularly sensitive to compression. Also, Unity converts images of various formats to NM within the environment.

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/normal-maps-and-importing-them-correctly.82652/

cool link Death

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/normal-maps-and-importing-them-correctly.82652/

Boris 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIN0n35e8ms

OT reply to RorrKonn

http://disinfo.com/2014/10/twisted-art-zdzislaw-beksinski/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CpmAD4gcLMo

Wicked Cool :)

And as for Scarlet, the introductory sale has expired. She costs just under $50 now.

Not gonna comment on scarlet itself (cause i'm not really interested in a new figure at this point) but they really should have put more work in her promo renders. Blown out highlights, oddly colored skin, grainy shadows, nasty aliasing on hair... I can even see matte fringes on some of the renders. That's really not the way to promote a shiney new figure IMO.

She is back on sale now: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=109591

USD 30.- until June 12th.

They roll out large with support. Sadly though SR2 is still pending, so content made for her now may have to be redone later.

Ok, this thread is now just getting fucking ridiculous - from both sides.

I don't have Scarlet, so I can't comment on her mesh. I model, but I am in no way a professional. I'm much better at texturing. However, I do agree with quite a few people in this thread and those that know I use Poser almost exclusively would be VERY surprised who I actually agree with. Aside from that, this thread has gone so damn far off topic and off the rails that those of you - especially vendors - should really be ashamed. I would advise vendors to stay completely out of the forums, only because it will farther your business if people don't see you as combative, NOT because I disagree with anything that's been said.

To DeathMetalMask: shvrdavid has contributed to the development of Antonia, V4WM, Poser Outfitter among other projects. He's very good at what he does. Where is it written that in order to be good at what you do you have to be a vendor? Actually, the Poser product business was begun by people like him who freely gave their talents to the community. Renderosity was born. The rest is soiled history.

If we could now all quit this childish shit and get back to the thread at hand, that would be great. This kinda garbage is the reason I hardly post anymore.

Oh, and howdy odf, long time no "see" ;).

Laurie

I like this person already. Also, I find skin texturing excruciating work compared to modeling or morphing, and I'm trying my damndest not to use photographs. Is there a place we can discuss this outside of this particular thread? If it helps any I have Photoshop which can paint directly on OBJs.  I've managed to simulate blur-type blends for color sections but I'll be damned if I can figure out pores that don't look like pockmarks in PS's bump map. 

Is there a particular reason you don't want to use photographs?

It's possible to paint realistic skin textures using primary colors but it usually takes most people years of practice to get it to an acceptable level. Scott Spencer has a section in one of his books that shows how to paint/airbrush realistic skin on a 3D model in z-brush just using primary colors (red, blue, yellow), and various stroke techniques. But that's for z-brush, so it would require some creative adaptation for other software.

Most people in Poserdom use hi-res photos to create skin, and add various details, shadows, highlights, etc, where necessary, because it's easier than trying to paint real skin from scratch. If you're going for a more painterly look, then painting from scratch might be a better option.

I'm working on my first commercial characters and my primary choices for skin textures are:

• make entirely from scratch (do not have training to do this and it's going to eat days teaching myself)
• use merchant resources (I own some but they need tweaking and besides the licensing requires it)
• buy HD stock photography of model skin that's licensed for this purpose (expensive)
• photograph myself (hairy post-thirties man with suboptimal skin, not happening)

My current thrust is to combine the merchant resources with what I've taught myself already about coloration and do my best to cobble up some pore maps. To be fair, Photoshop's ability to paint meshes directly in 3-space and to paint across seams makes this a lot less arduous and I no longer need to use the blur filter to blend color shapes which speeds up reshaping them.

I've been away for a year (More?). My HD AND backup crashed-nearly simultaneously- so I have not Posed for quite awhile. My first thought on coming here-was "what is the new figure that will retire V4?" :-) Some things never change. I was even looking for Vetter's comments-just like old times! Go Vetter! 

I still liked V4 WM when I left (Hey ShvrDavid!) and was making many morphs for Dawn with Zbrush (look at my Gallery if interested) I'm thinking I'll replace my 2006 Intel Mac Pro and get back in the game with a modern computer and several Thunderbolt back up drives. 

Now I see there is Poser Pro Game Dev…. I wonder if it's worth it for non Game Dev folk….

Cheers! Eric