I don't want to start any wars or anything. If you can't contribute to this thread without being respectful, informative, or otherwise just nice, just go away. I don't care what app you're using, unless somehow it contributes significantly to your choice to continue using V4. Any attempt to intentionally derail this thread will be immediately reported to a moderator.

I'm only interested in knowing WHY you're still using V4 when there are other viable figures available for use in Poser. I still use her myself, occasionally, but primarily because I'm continuing a project from before the Poser apocolypse, otherwise my go to figure is Roxie, and sometimes Dawn. But I'm curious to know why you still use Victoria r. Is it simply the number of clothes available for her? If so, why not just convert? Is it the morphs available for her? The poses? Is it just too expensive to move on?

I have a curious mind and I'd like to know.

I'm still using V4. Poser9. I tried V6 with DSON Importer and the result for me is worse than V4 (harder dials, slower computer process...). I tried also DS, and I prefer Poser. So this is it.-

I still use V4 / A4 because there are some (in my opinion) great Japanese-style items created for her (dresses, morphs, makeup,) which are relevant to my ongoing projects.  Also because I use Poser, and V4 is generally more stable inside Poser, than later figures from the same store that released her.

I still use V4WM and the main reason for still using her is that i have yet to see anything significantly better for my needs.  I would like the figure to have better expressions but I have not seen anything so far, with the exception of Project E, that gives a WOW factor.  I do not do nudes so bending is not a major factor for me and V4WM bends well enough for me.

The other reason is a have characters that I have developed over the years with some realistic eyes and real reflections.  All of the figures/characters I have seen so far are a step backwards for me with burnt in reflections.  

As to moving on, yes I am prepared to, although I do not think that will bring my use of V4 to a dead stop.   The extra expense is a concern but not a show stopper, and fitting clothes is not a major sticking point but, if I am going to have to put in extra work and flash my credit cards I need to have a good reason.  

I do not treat 3D any differently to real life.  I have a car that is 14 years old and low milage, there may well be better cars around with loads of new gadgets like parking assist but at the end of the day my old car does the same as a new one does, it gets me from A to B.  A figure is no different, I have not seen anything yet that does anything I cannot do with V4WM.  I will not include Genesis 3 because it is too new but nothing I saw of Genesis 1 or 2 made me reach for my credit card.

I did buy Scarlet, as it was cheap enough to have a play and I did not have to jump through hoops to use the figure.  After the slating the figure got I doubt it will get much support but I will still use her but only for the odd time I want a variation on V4 or some background figure.

 I just picked up that mega bundle they were giving away at Daz, so I have her now too. I still haven't tried anything with her or the other characters she was bundled with, but at least she is in my runtime now. Price is always the answer for me. I bought Poser at a Navy Exchange when I first got into it, with v8, and I got 9 for a discount. I got into modeling because I can't purchase anything else for the hobby. So I stick with what is free. And V4 was free, so I got her.

stop trying to take my Vicki 4 away.

Hugz tight to my V4.

I use her because I'm doing illos for a book(s) and need about 20-30 figures so I need variety. I do use her content more because I do convert. The other reason I may use her is when I'm doing a quick image and the content I need is for her and I don't want to take the time to convert. I try not to have a go to figure, but use which ever figure would look best in the scene.

V4 was probably the last great character created for use on both DS and Poser, so got a LOT of love (although poor Michael missed out... there are maybe 100 items for V4 per item for M4). I still use her as the main character because of the range of figures you can create. Not just the morphs++ and elite, but the DieTrying morphs, the Morphia morphs give a lot more scope to explore. I'm not that impressed with the Genesis characters; they seem to have 'improved' the bending by making the joints more rubbery (like latex dolls... and with skins to match). Essentially the new products are not able to replace V4 so still only get used as occasional variant figures in a scene.

Simple answer for most end users will be :  Dollars invested over the last 10 years or so. They have tons of texture sets and closets full of clothing and support items.
Vendors have a proven and stable workflow using proven tools and a solid market.
M4/V4's future? At least the next decade or 2, if not more.

Digital content does not age over time.
M4/V4 will look exactly the same in 30-50 years as they do now.
And they clothes will not turn yellow over time either. LOL.

Hey? When we see how many out here are still on Poser 6, and 7,and 8? 

She works well enough for now.  I use V4WM and some morph corrections. 

I do use Genesis 2 from time to time, but it is slow to pose.  I keep meaning to convert Genesis 2 into a native Poser figure to use, but I just haven't gotten around to it.  It may be moot depending on how well Genesis 3 works in the next Poser version...

She an actress in the stable, along with the other V's, the S's, the A's and most of the non DAZ figures that have been fielded. Some things she's good for, others she sucketh mightily. And not in a good way.

No Vickie here, Clarkie, Roxie 4-EVAH!!!!!!!!!
And I don't care if you report me :-P

Skin textures. Hundreds and hundreds of skin textures. Also, I have more and better older woman characters for her than for any other figure that I own, and more ethnic characters. I own quite a lot of clothing for her too, but I'll often choose to make something new rather than use purchased clothing. Nearly 600 V4 characters in my V4 runtime.

 A couple of reasons. One, I'm pretty lazy and don't want to convert clothes to new figures, or mess around with DSON. Two, about 75% of my renders involve characters I've played in table-top RPGs, and making a picture with one of them is a little like getting to play them again in a game. Most of these figures I've developed V3 and/or V4, M3 and/or M4 versions of. I'd much rather spend my time building a picture rather than rejiggering a figure.

 Also, particularly with some of the fix morphs (and the couple of times I've tried weight-maps) they bend well-enough for me, since I tend to use portraits of clothed figures. I've also avoided DAZ Studio (although I am tempted now, with the integration of IRAY, and the improvements to G3) because I understand Poser, and I don't want to have to go back and download all the DAZ Studio versions of my content.

I also find that I'm not nearly as much into photo-realism as I was. 

I personally find the best overall basic body and face shape ... the largest library of content for her and the best character designs ... as well as MRs to create my own. I have many personal characters that are sentimental to me that were created with V4 and I can't see starting from scratch again. I use many other models ... but my "go to" is always V4. And the other generation 4 characters. Naughty pumeco, but no wrist slap, this time. 

Boni

I am now using Genesis 2 for my stuff. It came with Daz studio, which I am now using since Poser 5 barely runs on windows 8.1.

Its a cost issue. It takes money to upgrade, and buy new stuff for the figure, and the morphs, textures and everything, and I dont have any. ;-)

I have lots of stuff for V3 and V4 so if I need a clothed figure its probably going to be v3, v4 or M3.

1. Investment...I put a lot of money lots of skins, poses, lighting etc. for V4 (..and M4)

2)I can't grok Daz Studio at all, and can't get DSON to work with Poser, so no Genesis.

3)Support: vendors are still making content for, (and have older content available), and all that content, as stated above, will never 'go bad'.

Skin textures. Hundreds and hundreds of skin textures. Also, I have more and better older woman characters for her than for any other figure that I own, and more ethnic characters. I own quite a lot of clothing for her too, but I'll often choose to make something new rather than use purchased clothing. Nearly 600 V4 characters in my V4 runtime.

I think you make a very good point and something that is missed in all the talk of new figures.  Although sometime ago now V4 was released with the pin up in mind and it took a while for the market to develop and, in the main, it is only in the later years that the older textures appeared for V4.  All the new figures are to some degree still in the pin up phase, nothing wrong in that, except that if I adopt one of those new figures where do I go if I want a older figure, most likely straight back to V4.  That is why I am in no hurry to change for I know with any new figure it will be a transition from V4 to the new figure X.   Another factor is, like Boni, I have some characters that have a sentimental value, some that have developed over years not months.  I have worked with V4 so long I know how I can create the characters I want, what works and what does not.   Any new figure I take on will take some serious time for me to understand and adapt.  I am not against better figure or better bending I am just well aware that is a small part of the story for any new figure and if I am going down a new road I would like to have some idea of the destination and any possible road blocks that might appear on route.

"I'm only interested in knowing WHY you're still using V4 when there are other viable figures available for use in Poser."

I dont consider those  Other figures "Viable" ..not by a long shot.....sorry.

I use maxon Cinema4D for ALL of my final animation renders with a commercial plugin called INTERPOSER PRO  that gives me direct support ,within C4D, for my legacy poser content via my existing runtimes

This includes V4 and her massive catalogue of content.

I am also a merchant here.

I have  SIX YEAR OLD V4  animated pose files that still sell

In fact I just got my mid month$$ payment$$ last week from June's V4 product sales.

I dont see any Market Demand for products for those "also ran" Figures the OP mentioned and I do not anticipate there will be going forward.

Additionally After about four months of just tinkering with DS4x

I finally found a viable pipeline to get genesis figures animated into C4D with my current toolset Via the MDD exporter from DS Animate 2.

So this Current Animated film project of mine

will likely be V4's "Farewell performance" 

as a major figure in my animation projects

I am now transitioning to DAZ Genesis .. and the future.

I'm only interested in knowing WHY you're still using V4 when there are other viable figures available for use in Poser. I still use her myself, occasionally, but primarily because I'm continuing a project from before the Poser apocolypse, otherwise my go to figure is Roxie, and sometimes Dawn. But I'm curious to know why you still use Victoria r. Is it simply the number of clothes available for her? If so, why not just convert? Is it the morphs available for her? The poses? Is it just too expensive to move on?

I have a curious mind and I'd like to know.

I still use V4 because I have about 50 or so characters for her that I really like.  I can also say that (50+ characters) about each of the DAZ Gen3 figures, the SM G2 figures, the Miki series of figures, and similar numbers every other figure that has come down the pike.  Well, all of them except Eroko - she is kinda restrained on what can be done with her :p.

Like a lot of other people, I am impatiently waiting for Project E.  I suspect that she will be the figure that makes the Poserverse go Vicky who?

As far as the genesis series - I use the Gen1 series for DarioFish's figures & the YT characters - I use the Gen2 for the teenagers.  I have them running in Poser as Poser-native figures (No DSON necessary).  AFA DAZ's Gen3 - the cool kid vendors aren't releasing anything that hasn't already been done to death, so I am ignoring her.  I am sure someone will get her working in Poser, so that the Load, Conform, Make Art crowd can buy the same content all over again.

I belong to the right tool for the right job school of thought.  I use whatever figure I need for the project at hand.  My go-to figures are the SM G2 series (I have already spent $150 on the throwback sale & my cart is currently at $294 - and I missed the 1st 2 weeks.  I am hoping for a catch up so I can peruse what I missed.  My Miki 1020 want list still has almost 90 items.)

For me, V4 is best used for resource mining. 

WHY you're still using V4 when there are other viable figures available for use in Poser.

Because Poser doesn't put figures behind an abstraction layer so every new figure has to have comparable poses, expressions, clothing and hair fits provided for it to gain traction. Because newer figures have lower head poly counts or unusually divided head geometries which can be headaches for a morph artist (separated jaw in Dawn, unseparated mouth in Scarlet).

Because the makers of those figures don't always constructively market how they leverage modern Poser's rigging capabilities.

Because the figures might not come with the equivalent of Morphs++ which by now is IMO a basic standard. 

Because V4 was sculpted by medical illustrators using human models as references which means most of her proportions aren't uncanny (not implying the others are uncanny).

 Hi !

Answer is really simple, investment and the software, more than 100 Go of data only for V4 and i dont catch with daz studio, DSON is a gas plant, IMO, and slow down Poser.

;) 

Simple-Investments.  I use the tools I have, and will play with the new ones available, but the majority of what I own is for the V4 figure.  I am not "stuck" to her, but cost-effectiveness is an issue.  

Investment is a big part of the decision.  The largest and most diverse asset catalog of any figure out there.  Ease of use as well as adaptability. 

What defines viability of a figure?

As a lead figure if I ever use her it is in the male morph form (she then makes a nice shy androgyn figure) or, but very seldom, in Steph4 form or Aiko 4 forms. In some cases I cannot avoid using her is I need special suporting content that is difficult to convert. 

For the rest I use her as hair and skin donor for Roxie and Antonia.

I use V4 because she has the best adjustable face compaired to any other model. I have tried other models like Antonia, Dawn, V5,  V6, but none of them has enough polygons to get the desired result. And I can use her in Poser without any trouble. And that is a must because I like to use selfmade dynamic clothes and hair. The only reason I use DS sometimes is to make animations which I export to Poser as a Pz2 file. I have a huge library for V4 with clothes, poses,props, hair etc.and I don't to spent more money on models that I don't use. Offcourse newer models bent better, but with the set of morphs available you can get good results. And as long there are still vendors who support her I don't have to worrie.

Regards,

Bopper

Basically all the reasons that have already been mentioned:

1. Possibly with the exception of Genesis3, it does not appear to me that any of the new figures are particularly any better. That even goes for Weight Mapped V4 that doesn't seem any better to me than just normal V4.

2. Price, time, and effort to adapt to a new figure. Unless they are going to offer me something really exciting, then why should I spend all that money and time to adapt my current content to the new figure?

If you want me to adopt your new figure, then you have to show me something it does that V4 can't do. And that something needs to be something that makes me stop and go, "Wow! I need that in my runtime right now!!" Nobody has done that, except for Genesis3. Although even Genesis3 hasn't made me stop and go, "Wow!" It just seems obvious to me that Daz is constantly making improvements to Genesis and that has me considering the move to Daz4.

I have workflow that does what I need with a figure that I understand and does what I need with tools that I mostly understand and that do what I need. You better blow me out of the water with what you have to offer if you want me to change all that. And one of the most critical areas for that is screw ups. I basically have the tools, and sort of understand them, to fix anything that goes wrong with V4. If a pose, morph, or clothing goes totally sideways, then I can probably fix it with V4. I cannot say that about other figures.

But I will be 100% honest here too - I have not tried any of the other figures, including Rex or Roxie (though I keep meaning to).

I still use V4 as standard figure she does not look toony like the Genesis Stuff , when I look at the gen Products it reminds me on a Game Intro. I guess this will be the last figure I use if she dies my runtime will be done.

Also I personally think that add ons are unbeatable  in the collections of V4 after all these years , good creators stopped over the years and carefully crafted Outfits are hard to find. for genesis most outfits are skin tight the simple way of clothings so the stuff found for V4 is allot more Versatile.

when a figure comes out it takes years to get a good collection and quality stuff , especially if it has to be some new unique thing and not just a conversion of an older V4 Product for another figure in such a case it is obvious that I might as well use the one I have already for V4.

the Gen figures are not really supported in Poser and if one is into creating own stuff in Poser that offers allot of tools of Creation is also a reason not to make life hard trying to make a DS Product compatible with allot of resulting errors in Poser.

So I just stick on this Figure till the end and don't even bother about the genesis figures as in simple ways almost everything can be achieved and adapted on V4 in Poser to get the best results that not even Genesis will ever reach as its life is to short , resulting to be handled like an environment that you might use once or twice then drop it again.  

If anyone who designs figures is reading this thread, the two most important comments besides "investment" are:

If you want me to adopt your new figure, then you have to show me something it does that V4 can't do. And that something needs to be something that makes me stop and go, "Wow! I need that in my runtime right now!!" 

and

when a figure comes out it takes years to get a good collection and quality stuff 

are the two outstanding comments IMO.

I remember when V4 came out and the majority of content was for V3, there was a fair amount of trepidation about fence sitting. What cemented V4 as a character was DAZ doing two things:

1. making the Windows XP of figures (not too powerful but reliable and not requiring a lot of horsepower, and not causing future incompatibilities)
2. refusing to make any future Poser-native figures to compete with her

If they had gone one more generation and made a V5 in 2006, I'm about 99.9% certain she would be the watershed pre-Genesis figure by now with a comparable amount of content. DAZ had a need to make DS when Poser 5 looked to be the final version, but dropping support for producing any further Poser native figures was a choice. 

I made honest attempts at using both Genesis and G2 and for a time I stopped using V4 all together. I think the main problem is the link to Daz Studio. I'm a Poser user and I can't move to DS since I have renderers and third party extensions that I can't live without. Both of my attempts with Genesis went the same way. At first there was a WOW factor but as I got more characters and morph packs the figure became too heavy to use in Poser and the endless DSON loading became unbearable.

Also, Genesis has now gone completely DS with G3 it seems.  If Daz want their figures to be so strongly bound to DS I'll just stay with V4.

If you're married (real world married) then you've undoubtedly heard the expression, "It's cheaper to keep her".

My illicit affair with Miss Vicky Fourpointtwoplusplus started many years ago and she's proven to be awfully demanding.  If my real world wife was as high maintenance as Miss Vicky then I'd have been broke ages ago.  She has a vast wardrobe, numerous (hundreds?) poses (figures) and more accessories than I can count.  I've also gotten to know her quite well and can make her do anything I want.  Good taste keeps those details on this side of the screen.  While Genesis Two and now Vicky Seven are unquestionably better, I simply don't have the heart (or wallet) to kick Miss Vicky out on the curb with her moving van full of clothes and start all over with another woman who'll demand another walk-in closet full of clothes.  I have other expensive hobbies to feed.

Now, if someone wants to make a clothes converter for Miss Vicky's stuff...

I made honest attempts at using both Genesis and G2 and for a time I stopped using V4 all together. I think the main problem is the link to Daz Studio. I'm a Poser user and I can't move to DS since I have renderers and third party extensions that I can't live without. Both of my attempts with Genesis went the same way. At first there was a WOW factor but as I got more characters and morph packs the figure became too heavy to use in Poser and the endless DSON loading became unbearable.

Also, Genesis has now gone completely DS with G3 it seems.  If Daz want their figures to be so strongly bound to DS I'll just stay with V4.

Hi Vestmann, Long time no see.  Hope all is well with you.

I made honest attempts at using both Genesis and G2 and for a time I stopped using V4 all together. I think the main problem is the link to Daz Studio. I'm a Poser user and I can't move to DS since I have renderers and third party extensions that I can't live without. Both of my attempts with Genesis went the same way. At first there was a WOW factor but as I got more characters and morph packs the figure became too heavy to use in Poser and the endless DSON loading became unbearable.

Also, Genesis has now gone completely DS with G3 it seems.  If Daz want their figures to be so strongly bound to DS I'll just stay with V4.

Hi Vestmann, Long time no see.  Hope all is well with you.

Hey, thanks and same to you :)

because she is awesome. i mostly make my own clothes and morphs so i could do that for any figure. i just think shes a truly great model. i know many will disagree, but i like high poly models, and contrary to what i have heard people say, you absolutely can use box modeling apps for making morphs on high poly, its just more tedious, but to me, rewarding. after spending years customizing different v4's, she fills all the needs i have for making art.

 Once upon a time, there were three bears.  No. Wrong Story.

I used to think P6 Jessie was Kinda cute, except for her muscle-packed shoulders anyway.

V4 was a Quantum leap into the future by comparison  and I can't say the same for all of the newbie V's. So there !

I'll wait a Little longer until the WOW effect arrives on the Scene, and it'll have to be a WOW that is hollered so loud that it can be heard around our planet. 

I don't use V4 often but when I do it's because of Capsces morphs. I love those packages. Along with morphs++ I have a heck of a lot of control over the look of the figure. I really prefer to dial my own faces and bodies than buy pre-made characters which tend to look rather similar, especially as far as body types. Capsces also put out morphs for almost all the gen 3 and 4 figures which means once I learn the names and functions of the various dials I can more easily work with other figures that use them. I also like their face and body presets which tend to be more illustrative or toony (though you can dial realistic shapes too). 

Actually Cookie and Chip are my go to figures right now (go figure) also with Capsces morphs. Other than that, I've used Dawn more frequently than I'd expected too. She also has an illustrative quality that I like along with extra bones in the spine and jaw which is good for bending and expressions.

I'm a cheapskate through financial necessity.

1. I have a large selection of rather nice textures for V4 - most of them were free

2. I have a large selection of character morphs for V4 - most of them were free.

3. I have a large selection of morphs for V4 (most of which were NOT free, but picked up at bargain prices back when I was in the old DAZ PC - I got them mainly because some of the free character morphs needed them!).

4. I have a huge selection of skimpwear - sorry, clothing - for V4. Most of which was NOT free, but picked up at bargain prices.

Everything i can think of has been covered already, so long story short of why i still use V4... all of the above...

You are my Investment, my biggest investment .
You make me happy when renders turn grey.
You'll never know V4 how much money I spent on you,
So please, you can't take my V4 away!

I wasn't aware of an expiration date..

also a lot invested, I always find things in my runtime that I haven't even used.

For me:

Polycount

Works natively in Poser with no issues

Ease of making custom morphs/items for (Since I'm not a DS user)

Existing inventory of V4 products that I have as well as utilities that speed up my workflow

I want to use Genesis 3 & Victoria 7, but that DSON thingy is too slow.

I was thinking of switching to DAZ, but the render quality isn't as good as poser.

I was thinking of switching to DAZ, but the render quality isn't as good as poser.

Render quality has nothing to do with the 3D program either Poser or Daz, it's the render engine itself AND the skill of the user.  The new generation of physical based renderers, Reality and IRay, are both capable of amazing results and Reality can be used in both Poser and Daz.

Reason 1: So, this is the earth-shaking difference between V7 and V4? And I'm sure my 10 minutes of work pales by comparison to the time spent by the Daz Artist.

Reason 2: V4 and M4 fit in my garage. They demand hardware resources that I have.

Reason 3: Yes, the investment in everything that goes with the figures.

Reason 4: I don't care about weight mapping. I really can't see much difference as compared to a fixed V4.

When I saw the G3/V7 announcement, I thought, "I guess I'd better download the latest version of DS and try again." Then I thought, "Why?" I'd tried 4.6 and didn't care for it. DAZ was making the whole debate about new figures for Poser irrelevant to me. I've come to terms with DSON, and I can use the Genesis 2-based figures in Poser 10. I really like some of them, and it seems likely that we already have the full set of the characters that DAZ will ever produce for that generation. Clothes and hair from DAZ and other venders pretty much just provide similar products to the ones available for V4, so "cooler" add-ons don't cause me to drop V4. I looked at the V7 promo images and was underwhelmed. I knew I could get close even with V4 kitted out with elite, ++, the Perfect fix, and various body morphs from folks like X and M.  Few of the expressions look all that different (and some look a tad scary), and I'll try the smile morphs for V4 identified on another board. V7 also has some weird thing going in the throat area, like her muscles are always tense. G3 was bound to be even more of a resource hog than G2. And DAZ seems to have adopted the product strategy of planned obsolescence. I won't play that game.

My solution was to see if I could make working with what I have even easier, so I side-graded to Poser Pro 2014. I haven't worked with the fitting room yet, but I will to learn how to fit V4 items to G2. So far, I would say that the 64-bit environment makes dealing with G2 better. I was able to load Lillith 6, Callie 6, and G2F with hair and clothes and still pose at a bearable rate.

Because I use Poser.
Genesis doesn't work properly in Poser, it was never designed to work properly in Poser.

 seems like everyone is saying much the same thing ~ "I've got TONS of stuff for V4" ..................what I cant understand is WHY she took off the way she did ?? S4 and A4 didn't get the same amount off attention, think A3 was more popular then A4 and poor ol'Steph was ignored a lot no matter if she was a S3 or S4 (or petite ) and its even worse with poser dolls ~ next to no skins very little clothes/morphs (yes I know there some but not compared to what V4 has)

" I bought tons of stuff for V4"

lol anybody seriously thought, this was a lifetime investment? Anybody seriously thought V4 and Poser6 are forever?

Anybody should be aware, that one figure cannot be the last and only release. V7 is out now and there will be a V8,9 and 10. Keep that in your calulation, when you decide to buy stuff for her. I've tons of stuff for Miki1020 and Miki 2 and Sydney. So what, they didn't last forever either. This was obvious from the start.

Time to move on.

S4 and A4 are V4 morphs. There are several options to use these morphs with V4 clothing. PP2014 has the copy morphs function, there is the Netherworks Clothing Kit which works on all versions of Poser and there are others as well/

So i use all of these morphs with all of the clothing for V4

 EClark1894 ask why ya still use V4.
it's kinda funny ,most go V4 vs V5,6,7.
why isn't there more V4 vs V1,2,3 or poser stock characters or dawn.
So I guess the answer is poserverse mostly thinks in terms of V's and newer V's.
but since V4 is the last V to be rigged in poser that makes her the winner.

Reason 1: So, this is the earth-shaking difference between V7 and V4? And I'm sure my 10 minutes of work pales by comparison to the time spent by the Daz Artist.

Great example, I'm not really sure it's showing what you want it to though. The figure on the lefts looks miles better in my opinion,  The difference in the face, the bends, the stomach area... At a guess i would say that scene would of only taken a few minutes to set up for v7 in DS.

Reason 1: So, this is the earth-shaking difference between V7 and V4? And I'm sure my 10 minutes of work pales by comparison to the time spent by the Daz Artist.

Is that what V4 renders like with Iray?