That's quite an improvement, to put it mildly, JP.  :)

Here's my unloved attempt at M4WM; he definitely needs some work here and there...

this actually looks pretty impressive to me, not sure why people critisized your efforts.

 you all can make killer rigs. why don't make your own characters to rig ?

The only time I find myself asking that question is when I realize how old V4 and M4 actually are. I'm still getting plenty of mileage out of them, and there's still plenty of fresh content for them, so if it wasn't for the age element, I have no reason to ditch them.

That and I use Poser instead of DAZ. Eventually I might make the jump, but it'll be a while if happens.

 you all can make killer rigs. why don't make your own characters to rig ?

I do make characters but more often than not they are not for Poser. I have considered releasing some of mine, but in the end I decided that it would be best to let people complain about not having good characters....

None of mine would be any good, simply because they have complex rigging, blend shape faces, and a host of other things that are not supposed to be in any character according to most of the forum. Sort of like Genesis 3.................

 you all can make killer rigs. why don't make your own characters to rig ?

I do make characters but more often than not they are not for Poser. I have considered releasing some of mine, but in the end I decided that it would be best to let people complain about not having good characters....

None of mine would be any good, simply because they have complex rigging, blend shape faces, and a host of other things that are not supposed to be in any character according to most of the forum. Sort of like Genesis 3.................

I haven't gotten G3 yet.so don't know how they work. well eventually somebody's going to half to start making characters for poser. daz built a empire doing it.

ya never know you might be the one to build the next empire.

Thanks for the heads-up on JCM.

I still prefer it as I hardly ever bother loading a clothing item into the viewport, nevermind use them, but I can see why JCM would be a problem for clothes.  Sounds like that's the only figure-tech SM need to develop then, something that transfers the shaping into whatever clothing the figure is wearing.  There's nothing 'figure-form' that cannot be done using JCM's, so there would be no excuse for badly deforming figures if they added a technology to transfer the form to the clothes, on-the-fly.

The work done by the members here on the figures using just weight mapping, is clearly top-notch, but the point is, it shouldn't need to be like that, you shouldn't be needing to use WM when technologies like JCM exist, and not just JCM, it's curve-controlled keyable JCM!

My calender says its Juli 2015. Do you want SM to go back in time?

Conventional rigging + JCM's is the worst possible pollution ever invented in 3D. (But at the time, it was the only possibility, se let's forgive them)
That's why weight- and bulge mapping came in to replace the conventional rigging system.

As JoePublic demonstrated, there is NO need for JCM's if the weight and bulge mapping are done properly.

Someone wrote in anther post : "All tools are good tools to prevent JCM's and magnets, and whatever pollution one can think off."

And IF weight and bulge mapping can not get you exactly where you want to be?
Adapt the obj file untill it does.
The final result is always a combination of the position of the vertex in the obj file, and the weight it gets from the maps during bends.

Those who need JCM's and the other stuff, first need to learn how to rig properly and adapt the obj file if required.

My calender says its Juli 2015. Do you want SM to go back in time?

Conventional rigging + JCM's is the worst possible pollution ever invented in 3D. (But at the time, it was the only possibility, se let's forgive them)
That's why weight- and bulge mapping came in to replace the conventional rigging system.

As JoePublic demonstrated, there is NO need for JCM's if the weight and bulge mapping are done properly.

Someone wrote in anther post : "All tools are good tools to prevent JCM's and magnets, and whatever pollution one can think off."

And IF weight and bulge mapping can not get you exactly where you want to be?
Adapt the obj file untill it does.
The final result is always a combination of the position of the vertex in the obj file, and the weight it gets from the maps during bends.

Those who need JCM's and the other stuff, first need to learn how to rig properly and adapt the obj file if required.

Actually, you are misinformed. JCMs can be used in conjunction with weightmapping to improve the look of a bend. For example, if you want muscles to look like they're deformed, flexed or contracted when you flex a leg or bicep muscle.  This is industry standard technique when animating some figures. Weightmapping alone is not sufficient, as it will only fold a joint in half, not produce a natural bend.

Can you flex a muscle using a by a weight map alone? Most likely not. If you can, this is your time to demonstrate it. But you'll probably show those lo-res figures standing barely posed as an example. I can produce several examples of plugging in JCMS so that arms flex, buttocks squeeze and flex, on joint bends so that when they animate it gives more natural movement.

And Vilters, please pick an account you want to use when you post. Or at least use different phrasing (ie pollution) when you post.

And Vilters, please pick an account you want to use when you post. Or at least use different phrasing (ie pollution) when you post.

There is a more damning evidence: go to "LouisCross" posts history and there is a post showing Vilters face-that-only-mom-can-love figure.

Out of curiosity, what's with the general dislike for JCM?

Corresponding JCMs have to be put into conforming clothing, whilst the weightmapping simply goes in with the rig. JCMs have their uses, as weightmapping (at least Poser's weightmapping) only moves vertices in a direction normal to the surface, a restriction JCMs do not have.....

Note that corresponding weightmaping also has to be in the clothing. 

Indeed, but that is transferred when the figure's rig is added to the cloth, at least in Poser...

But that is only a starting point, unless you are building skin tight body suits or get lucky. DAZ Studio does the same thing with weightmaps and includes templates for things other than skin tight bodysuits, which is still just a starting point. DS will (with Genesis and later) also automatically project the jcm's and other morphs onto the clothing, if they are not in the clothing. Again, it makes for a starting point but it certainly is not a one button solution. And herein lies the problem with new figures. To support them takes work. With good clothing it takes significant work.  For a content creator it is a financial risk.

Content creators have choices. Do they support an unproven character from an unproven entity, an unproven character from a company that has proven it fails at marketing their characters and support fro those characters, an unproven character from a company that has a proven track record which produces characters that sell content, or support an old proven figure where sales are falling off due to market saturation or customers moving on to the newer figures. 

There is a lot of disinformation about weight mapping in Poser.

First off, weight maps can only affect 2 axis's per rotation channel, that is how they work.

You do have a few options to affect the 3rd axis.

You can scrap traditional scaling and use that channel to do the third axis, but then scaling has to be set up as morphs with animated joint centers.

Or you can add another bone.

Or you can use a JCM.

Or magnets...

Why muscle rigging has never taken off sort of baffles me. Yes it is a harder to set up, so it isn't for everyone. If you want it to look like a person, it is far easier to pull it off in many poses when muscle rigging is used. Muscle rigging does present its own set of challenges thou, so it is not always the best type to use in every situation. But if you want it to look like a person, bend like a person actually does, you cant beat it...

+1 >>>>"Yes, they basically want Studio with a Poser layout because they can't even be bothered to spend a few minutes learning a new interface."

WOW!! I somehow got unsubscribed from this thread

that previous Joepublic post ,with the above quotes, is the best summation of the current

state  of the poser female figure universe, I have ever had the pleasure of reading.

So from what Male_M3dia said, it sounds as if DAZ already has a way to transfer JCM to clothes, brilliant!
Not so brilliant for SM though, so I hope they add that ability to Poser.

I love JCM and the fact that each joint has an individual 'always-active' keyable timeline of it's own, it's just perfect as far as I'm concerned.  It doesn't just allow you to do stuff like automatically flexing muscles as a joint bends, you even get to decide at which point in the rotation that the muscle will start to flex.  Further than that, you can even control how the flex blend in and out.  Further than that, you can do this with more than one morph.  You could have one morph blend in and out over the first 45 degrees of rotation and have another take over for the next 45 degrees.  You can mix them, blend them, sequence them, and all without even animating in the animation timeline.  Each joint has it's own animation timeline, seperate from the main animation timeling.

That it crazy powerful stuff (and easy to use), and if the only problem is the lack of it not transferring to clothes, then just as DAZ have done, I think SM really need to see to that because the fact that that an arm for example contains a morph for a muscle flex, it's obvious enough to make use of that same morph by driving it with a JCM.

Perfect system as far as I'm concerned, in fact, I think it's one of the few systems Poser actually got right!

It does make me wonder though, about something Lightwave has that maybe Poser is capable of too.  In Lightwave, there was a way to assign an animated texture to a range of frames.  So, say you had an animated bumpmap of some folds moving, say 24 frames of looping animation.  That animation could be assigned between one stride of a walk animation and applied to, say, a pair of jeans.  And what happend was when you animated the character walking, the attached bumpmap texture would animate in time to the main animation so that everytime the knee was bent, the animated bump texture for the folds had automatically reached the frame where the creasing is nice and strong.

But as the character moves, so does the texture run through it's animated texture.  If the character stops walking, then the animated texture stops animating.  In other words, rather than link a morph to joint rotations, you could link a looping animated texture that only moves (backwards or forwards) when the joints rotate.  Basically, replace the muscle flex morph with a looping animated texture assigned to the bump or displacement channel.  The texture animation point (the specific frame used) is always determined by the rotation of the joint.

Not the easiest thing to explain and I can't remember what the feature is called, but if you saw it, you'd realise what a useful thing it is.  It's perfect for, say, a rear shot of a woman in panties walking away from you and you don't want to model the folds in the panties as the cheeks sway as she walks.  Those fine, hardly noticable folds that change as she walks, could be held in an animated texture that is controlled by the rotation of the leg joints.  Really neat, there was even a video years ago, demonstrating it on a basic bending tube, but I can't find it.

As for Vilters (sorry, I mean LouisCross), I don't know why he keeps doing that, I know it's him - even Roxie spotted it the other week and said to me ...
"Hahaha, look, Uncle Vilters has got another name!!!"

You posted those figure that only you have access to, so to be fair it was a bit of a give-away, Tony, just a bit ;-)

So from what Male_M3dia said, it sounds as if DAZ already has a way to transfer JCM to clothes, brilliant!
Not so brilliant for SM though, so I hope they add that ability to Poser.

LOL, so much for informed Poser users.  Poser already HAS that ability.But, then again, one would actually have to USE to Poser know that.

As for the sock puppets, the whining about them from the DAZGang is just toooooo, toooooo funny.  They KINGs of sock puppets.

JCMs?  Lazy rigging for inferior models.  That's all it is. 

@Glitterati
Stop baiting for trouble and learn to read, like going back some posts and you'll see that I took that advice from someone else!
I use JCM, and know exactly how it works, and if it already transfers to clothes in Poser after all, that's awesome!

Can I go and have my tea now?
Thankyou!

@Glitterati
Stop baiting for trouble and learn to read, like going back some posts and you'll see that I took that advice from someone else!
I use JCM, and know exactly how it works, and if it already transfers to clothes in Poser after all, that's awesome!

Can I go and have my tea now?
Thankyou!

Awwww, poor baby..........got busted didn't ya?  Don't forget to give your sock puppet some tea too - DarkElegance, isn't it?

Glitterati Wrote:
"JCMs?  Lazy rigging for inferior models.  That's all it is."

Not really, more like superior deformation for superior models, and hey, works fine for me!
You're funny though.

Ok, so now can I have my tea in peace?
Thanks!

 well somebody needs to turn the troll magnets off

So from what Male_M3dia said, it sounds as if DAZ already has a way to transfer JCM to clothes, brilliant!
Not so brilliant for SM though, so I hope they add that ability to Poser.

LOL, so much for informed Poser users.  Poser already HAS that ability.But, then again, one would actually have to USE to Poser know that.

As for the sock puppets, the whining about them from the DAZGang is just toooooo, toooooo funny.  They KINGs of sock puppets.

JCMs?  Lazy rigging for inferior models.  That's all it is. 

LOL, I already explained what JCM could do to help bending, especially when you want them to look like normal bending. The figures you use could benefit from them so that they don't warp or bend in the shoulders or elbows. I know you are still learning about proper bending or rigging from the renders you post or the products you make (IE. your latest Luna item has rigging problems in the crotch area, babies shouldn't have big bulges at all. You should probably fix that even if it's a free item.), but you probably should learn what JCMs do or actual rigging does before giving your uninformed responses.  

Thanks,

Oh btw, didn't you just get through ranting about how poser users are getting attacked, yet almost all your posts from the last two pages feature your launching attacks and name calling?

Well, when it comes to rigging, where are many ways to skin a cat.

As usual, it depends...

Clothing merchants usually hate JCMs because they are an added complication when transferring a rig from a figure into a piece of clothing. And unless the clothing is really skin tight, you can't just auto-transfer a JCM with a single mouseclick, but you rather have to create a new one for the clothing item that corresponds with the one used in the figure.

So, avoiding them as much as possible is just best practise in rigging.

But yes, JCMs can easily do things no other method can do, so if I need extra realistic joint deformation for a nude shot, I just make a JCM and be done with it.

Now, the thing is: Proper bulge maps can go a long way to make a figure bend realistic (Or at least realistic enough for most Poser uses), but....Bulge maps aren't "Industry standard".

So Genesis 3 now is rigged without bulge maps, but uses lots of JCMs instead. (At least what's what I read in the DAZ forums)

How well that works with cloth rigging you have to ask some DAZ merchants.

Personally I like to rig a figure as best as I can without JCMs and only use when I am getting tired of strugling with a few vertices that refuse to behave properly.

This usually results in the most "stable" and less resource hungry rig.

I don't like "ghost bones" or similar, because I pose my figures manually and additional bodyparts make it harder to select the bodypart I want to move with the mouse.

But as I said, many ways to skin a cat.

With one or two dozend JCMs I could probably make Posette bend as well as Vicky 7 without actual weightmapping while keeping her perhaps at least Poser 6 compatible. Lol.

Well, when it comes to rigging, where are many ways to skin a cat.

As usual, it depends...

Clothing merchants usually hate JCMs because they are an added complication when transferring a rig from a figure into a piece of clothing. And unless the clothing is really skin tight, you can't just auto-transfer a JCM with a single mouseclick, but you rather have to create a new one for the clothing item that corresponds with the one used in the figure.

Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

The power of JCM's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2laBiFJZvM. Those that know what jcm's are will see them at work. Now, go and try that muscle detail with Weightmapping or bulge maps alone. We use Jcm's specifically for this reason. To get defined sculpted mesh detail on specific bends. Call it pollution, I call it definition. WM is fine for meshes where defined detail isn't important., but when you go hi-detail, Jcm's is the way to go. Perfect example? Bend a leg and look at the knee. Instead of it looking like spaghetti you can make it look like an actual knee where you see the knee cap detail all via a single Jcm assigned at that bend position.

Just to show that JCM are not a DAZ conspiracy against human kind, a 3 years old video of JCM creation in zBrush and Modo.

Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.All that effort. DS does this automatically for you when you auto-fit. And dials them accordingly on clothing as your figure uses them.

He He, never said that they are a conspiracy.

I do use JCMs regularly myself.

But I'm just wondering: JCMs are as old as V3, perhaps older. (I remember a Posette freebie having some)

But first DAZ gets out of their way to avoid them in V4, stuffing gazillions of magnets into her rig instead.

Then they develop TRI-AX featuring three separate weightmaps per joint to avoid both JCMs and magnets.

And now they drop TRI-AX and suddenly a single map + lots of JCMs are the latest, greatest thing.

I'm just a little confused now.  :-)

To be more precise:

I'm wondering what actual advantage the "new" JCM- heavy rigging has for the hobbyist user who never leaves Studio as compared to TRI-AX + a few JCMs here and there?

Just to show that JCM are not a DAZ conspiracy against human kind, a 3 years old video of JCM creation in zBrush and Modo.

So, I guess you're denying that is was Rob and Nerd3D who came up with JCMs?  Wow, nothing quite like denying your own history! "It all became public knowledge when Charles made a post looking for a way to “…make a morph channel affect more than one body part.” In answering his post, I first stated that it wasn't possible. I didn't want to elude to my findings yet, which were later labeled Partial Body Morphs (PBM), because I needed to pin down the specifics of how it worked before I tried to explain it to someone else; I was stalling. He replied with findings of his own on what later came to be known as Joint Controlled Morphs (JCM), forcing me to speak up. JCM had been something I'd been attempting in the months prior but failed to place the data in the correct location… I'd been trying to put the code in a controlling channel and point it at the slave, when it should've been the opposite (at least, to operate the way I intended it to)."

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/artzone/wiki/user/rbtwhiz/technotes/content/erc/start

JCM's were used on back on Genesis for specific figure shapes where it needed assistance on bends. It's nothing new. Triax did most of the heavy lifting, jcm's just defined those details.

To be more precise:

I'm wondering what actual advantage the "new" JCM- heavy rigging has for the hobbyist user who never leaves Studio as compared to TRI-AX + a few JCMs here and there?

No difference, except they now have a figure with more accurate bend details that jcm's deliver that Triax could't by itself. More JCM's = more accurate detail in bends. It's why G3 bends so good.

He He, never said that they are a conspiracy.

I do use JCMs regularly myself.

But I'm just wondering: JCMs are as old as V3, perhaps older. (I remember a Posette freebie having some)

But first DAZ gets out of their way to avoid them in V4, stuffing gazillions of magnets into her rig instead.

Then they develop TRI-AX featuring three separate weightmaps per joint to avoid both JCMs and magnets.

And now they drop TRI-AX and suddenly a single map + lots of JCMs are the latest, greatest thing.

I'm just a little confused now.  :-)

According to Rob's page it was in 2000. I think you can safely say the JCMs are good, vs. JCMs are bad argument depends on what is being sold at the moment.

To handle the case of bulging biceps automatically you need at least implicit skinning. The final step are muscolosketal simulations; to get an idea of what can be done, a video about WETA tissue simulation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VlthWa5pu8

This post text is wrecked by the so called editor.

Implicit skinning is nice, but a while off for most platforms without huge hollywood budgets lol.

Another example of JCM's applied vs normal rigging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuiB1Rv75O8

This shows a direct comparison.

So, anybody who says adding JCM's is lazy and cannot rig, is mis-informed. Results speak for themselves. In fact, it takes more effort to add JCM's. End of the day you end up with a superior looking system. I don't care if it's considered "pollution".

But that is only a starting point, unless you are building skin tight body suits or get lucky. DAZ Studio does the same thing with weightmaps and includes templates for things other than skin tight bodysuits, which is still just a starting point. DS will (with Genesis and later) also automatically project the jcm's and other morphs onto the clothing, if they are not in the clothing. Again, it makes for a starting point but it certainly is not a one button solution.

Oh goodness, and here I thought Zev0 said "DAZ Magic" does it all with one click.  While Poser users have to "work" at the proper rigging. It appears that bhoins disagrees!  Who wudda thought?

You guys really need to 1) review your history and 2) coordinate your talking points so that one doesn't make the other look like a fool!

Thanks for the info lads, and especially those videos, that's what I'm talking about - and JCM is the best system in my opinion.
And a massive thumbs-up to Nerd for coming up with it!

Anyway, I'll have to cut this short, I have to log-off, I just caught one of the people who work here posting messages on the forum using my pumeco account!  I'm logging off and I doubt I'll be back unless I'm satified with the answer for it.  I knew there was something going on here.

@ Glitteratti - Trust you to take things out of context lol. And Umm... I have both apps FYI. I know the differences lol. You can't tell me otherwise with your silly comments. I have done the process in Both apps.

But that is only a starting point, unless you are building skin tight body suits or get lucky. DAZ Studio does the same thing with weightmaps and includes templates for things other than skin tight bodysuits, which is still just a starting point. DS will (with Genesis and later) also automatically project the jcm's and other morphs onto the clothing, if they are not in the clothing. Again, it makes for a starting point but it certainly is not a one button solution.

Oh goodness, and here I thought Zev0 said "DAZ Magic" does it all with one click.  While Poser users have to "work" at the proper rigging. It appears that bhoins disagrees!  Who wudda thought?

You guys really need to 1) review your history and 2) coordinate your talking points so that one doesn't make the other look like a fool!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2891494&page_number=7#msg4212512   

If you meant that, bhoins said the JCMs projects into clothing automatically as well.

Though this is waaaaay off again from the subject of the thread. Is that why you're attacking everyone again?

Just ignore her. She just upset this thread isn't about Dawn or Roxie. So she wants to derail it however she can.

But that is only a starting point, unless you are building skin tight body suits or get lucky. DAZ Studio does the same thing with weightmaps and includes templates for things other than skin tight bodysuits, which is still just a starting point. DS will (with Genesis and later) also automatically project the jcm's and other morphs onto the clothing, if they are not in the clothing. Again, it makes for a starting point but it certainly is not a one button solution.

Oh goodness, and here I thought Zev0 said "DAZ Magic" does it all with one click.  While Poser users have to "work" at the proper rigging. It appears that bhoins disagrees!  Who wudda thought?

You guys really need to 1) review your history and 2) coordinate your talking points so that one doesn't make the other look like a fool!

Actually, like Zev0, I said the JCM are projected automatically into the clothing. No click required. For some clothing that, alone, is not going to be good enough for a high quality commercial product, and it, instead, provides a starting point. 

Thanks for clearing that up **bhoins. Some people need to learn how to read properly before they go on a rant.
**

But that is only a starting point, unless you are building skin tight body suits or get lucky. DAZ Studio does the same thing with weightmaps and includes templates for things other than skin tight bodysuits, which is still just a starting point. DS will (with Genesis and later) also automatically project the jcm's and other morphs onto the clothing, if they are not in the clothing. Again, it makes for a starting point but it certainly is not a one button solution.

Oh goodness, and here I thought Zev0 said "DAZ Magic" does it all with one click.  While Poser users have to "work" at the proper rigging. It appears that bhoins disagrees!  Who wudda thought?

You guys really need to 1) review your history and 2) coordinate your talking points so that one doesn't make the other look like a fool!

Actually, like Zev0, I said the JCM are projected automatically into the clothing. No click required. For some clothing that, alone, is not going to be good enough for a high quality commercial product, and it, instead, provides a starting point. 

OK, let's review........
Zev0 in claiming DAZ Magic does it better (that WAS the purpose of his single line post after all) said........

"All that effort. DS does this automatically for you when you auto-fit. And dials them accordingly on clothing as your figure uses them."

Now, one would HOPE that a JCM dials in accordingly as your figure uses them since that's the ENTIRE purpose of a JOINT controlled morph.  You know, when the joint moves the morph activates! 

And, this was in reply to my post saying single click, add JCM to clothing in Poser, then edit as necessary.

And, now you come back and REPEAT that's exactly what DAZ Magic is intended to do as well.

I see no disagreement here...........just quoting your own statements back at you.  Both, you and Zev0.

Oh, and just to be on topic, I actually rendered V4 WM yesterday.....trying to learn Octane lighting.  Failed pretty miserably with this render, but I actually USED V4.  WM of course.  The one where the first step in converting to weight mapping had to be removing the JCMs.

But that is only a starting point, unless you are building skin tight body suits or get lucky. DAZ Studio does the same thing with weightmaps and includes templates for things other than skin tight bodysuits, which is still just a starting point. DS will (with Genesis and later) also automatically project the jcm's and other morphs onto the clothing, if they are not in the clothing. Again, it makes for a starting point but it certainly is not a one button solution.

Oh goodness, and here I thought Zev0 said "DAZ Magic" does it all with one click.  While Poser users have to "work" at the proper rigging. It appears that bhoins disagrees!  Who wudda thought?

You guys really need to 1) review your history and 2) coordinate your talking points so that one doesn't make the other look like a fool!

Actually, like Zev0, I said the JCM are projected automatically into the clothing. No click required. For some clothing that, alone, is not going to be good enough for a high quality commercial product, and it, instead, provides a starting point. 

OK, let's review........
Zev0 in claiming DAZ Magic does it better (that WAS the purpose of his single line post after all) said........

"All that effort. DS does this automatically for you when you auto-fit. And dials them accordingly on clothing as your figure uses them."

Now, one would HOPE that a JCM dials in accordingly as your figure uses them since that's the ENTIRE purpose of a JOINT controlled morph.  You know, when the joint moves the morph activates! 

And, this was in reply to my post saying single click, add JCM to clothing in Poser, then edit as necessary.

And, now you come back and REPEAT that's exactly what DAZ Magic is intended to do as well.

I see no disagreement here...........just quoting your own statements back at you.  Both, you and Zev0.

Oh, and just to be on topic, I actually rendered V4 WM yesterday.....trying to learn Octane lighting.  Failed pretty miserably with this render, but I actually USED V4.  WM of course.  The one where the first step in converting to weight mapping had to be removing the JCMs.

That totally flew over your head. I think the point you missed is that you're one clicking when you're making the clothing item, because that functionality is in the content developer tools. We're talking about the jcm being copied into the clothing when a regular user, not using the dev tools, simply puts the clothing on the figure.  Bhoins adds in although that's usually ok for end users, content developers, if they choose to support that particular shape, can further tweak that jcms so it looks better in their clothing that they commercially release.  

And I'm glad you gave octane another try after this:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2890172&#msg4201476

Glitterati3D Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

show me I don't see any thing in your renderosity freestuff,gallery,store. you talk a lot of smack troll but have nothing to back it up

Glitterati3D Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

show me I don't see any thing in your renderosity freestuff,gallery,store. you talk a lot of smack troll but have nothing to back it up

ROFL, I don't have to justify anything to you.  Nor anyone else for that matter. But, if you look hard enough, you can find a store with my products in it.  Research.........it's really does a body good.

Glitterati3D Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

show me I don't see any thing in your renderosity freestuff,gallery,store. you talk a lot of smack troll but have nothing to back it up

I think all her stores have been closed, but I did find this to give an example: http://www.sharecg.com/v/54521/browse/11/Poser/Glitterati3D-Fantasy-K4

Glitterati3D Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

show me I don't see any thing in your renderosity freestuff,gallery,store. you talk a lot of smack troll but have nothing to back it up

ROFL, I don't have to justify anything to you.  Nor anyone else for that matter. But, if you look hard enough, you can find a store with my products in it.  Research.........it's really does a body good.

Actually if you want people to take you seriously, ya ,you do need to back it up like Male_M3dia,Zev0,JoePublic can and do.

Glitterati3D Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

show me I don't see any thing in your renderosity freestuff,gallery,store. you talk a lot of smack troll but have nothing to back it up

I think all her stores have been closed, but I did find this to give an example: http://www.sharecg.com/v/54521/browse/11/Poser/Glitterati3D-Fantasy-K4

that just says it all don't it

Glitterati3D Not true, actually.  I can transfer the JCMs to clothing, then edit the morph in place using Poser's existing tools.  A single click to transfer the JCM, then simply edit the JCM in place to make it behave properly in the clothing.  Easy as pie.

show me I don't see any thing in your renderosity freestuff,gallery,store. you talk a lot of smack troll but have nothing to back it up

ROFL, I don't have to justify anything to you.  Nor anyone else for that matter. But, if you look hard enough, you can find a store with my products in it.  Research.........it's really does a body good.

Actually if you want people to take you seriously, ya ,you do need to back it up like Male_M3dia,Zev0,JoePublic can and do.

Why?  Because YOU say so?  I think not. Let's see if I have this right.......you come in these threads and post completely incomprehensible gibberish, then admit you don't create meshes, yet demand I prove I do.

About sums it up, right?

ROFL.

He He, never said that they are a conspiracy.

I do use JCMs regularly myself.

But I'm just wondering: JCMs are as old as V3, perhaps older. (I remember a Posette freebie having some)

But first DAZ gets out of their way to avoid them in V4, stuffing gazillions of magnets into her rig instead.

Then they develop TRI-AX featuring three separate weightmaps per joint to avoid both JCMs and magnets.

And now they drop TRI-AX and suddenly a single map + lots of JCMs are the latest, greatest thing.

I'm just a little confused now.  :-)

could V7 be rigged the way she is cause of unity and all https://www.morph3d.com/ ?