I was hoping someone might know the answer to this question...

I am just getting started using Genesis 3 Female in DAZ Studio. I have used Poser over the years, but not DAZ studio so much. Anyhoo, I have been trying to get rid of that pesky ambient light, and I eventually found that under the surfaces tab, if I click on "Surfaces" for Genesis 2 Female, there is a setting for Lighting model, which is set to plastic and Ambient Strength, which can then be set to 0 to get rid of the ambient lighting.

So far, so good. However, the "Lighting Model" setting only appeared AFTER I imported a MAT file that was meant for Poser.

If I load the "out of the box" Genesis 2 Female, this parameter does not appear, and I am unable to "get rid" of the ambient light on the surface.

So.... how to I get the "Lighting Model" to appear for the Surfaces, without having to load this Poser MAT file?

Thanks in advance :*

LadyGodiva

Maybe you are trying to turn off the Headlamp? It is a light which is parented to the cameras. Click the list tab located on the right side of the Viewport and you will find it in the list. I also am a long-time Poser user deciding to also use Studio. I was happy to learn that Headlamp existed, and that it can be turned off.

Yeah, I tried the headlamp and that wasn't it. Sooo strange. Here is the exact procedure from an empty project in DAZ Studio 4.8

1. Load Genesis 3 Female ( the blank one from the starter kit )
2. Applied "Jeane All MAT" which was in the library. I assume from the starter pack?
3. Add a point light ( which turns off the headlamp ).

I was lead to believe that it was a surface parameter issue when I added a primitive cube, and it was shaded dark as expected, so it wasn't the headlamp or lights in general.

And that's it. turning off the headlamp did not work. I'm pretty sure it's the ambient setting in the surfaces since ( once exposed after importing the other MAT file ), turning the ambient setting down to zero worked perfectly. I'd just like to do it without the hack.

I'm sure there is a simple solution. I'm just new to Daz Studio and unfamiliar with all the little nuiances :)

LadyGodiva

Sorry, one more note... as you can see in the second image above, one instance of Genesis 2 Female has the strong ambient light and one does not, with the same lighting, so the issue is definitely with the ambient settting in the surface materials.

LadyGodiva

If you look at your two screenshots and the loaded content there is a point light added to the second character load. I am not sure if you put that there trying to resolve issue but It is not in the first load I would select the pointlight in the scene tab in the top left pane on screen right click choose delete selected item. You might find it will disappear and the character would look more like the one on left with the light gone. I have a many Poser sets more props than characters to load into Daz if I choose the light option/s or a full scene set I get same result you have going here The plastic (Lighting mode) etc options is more how the light reacts to the selected material if you had character with a shiny suit and left it at plastic the material would have a plastic almost glass like finish at render, if you were to choose the matte there would be little if not no shine at all.

Okay sorry I read you put light there I should have refreshed screen first as I got sidetracked.

I replicated what you did

Here is the thing that went well even tried some cloth

Then I thought I add another character so I add Genesis male and Aiko 3 Here is result.

Since I normally set my whole scene with headlamp only and in most cases export. It appears if you set a point light etc to a scene and add stuff after it does not appear to calculated the new object. this includes characters and props. Now there must be way to recaluclate the light. So you delete the pointlight and all your characters and props appear again. Add point light back and only the originals (in my case 2 x Gen 3 females. but the prop(added for good mesure) and characters I added after are back to black. You can rectify it by adding a distant light. But I guess since I set up first and leave camera, lighting and rendering to last I was not even aware of this myself.

Adding distant light would be a fix but leaving lighting to last would help considerably. I will have to look now and see if there is way to recalculate the light as I have option to do so in other software chances are Daz would have it hiding somewhere

"Lighting Model" is a property of the Default DAZ Shader. It changes how specular highlights interact with the diffuse colour, and turns SSS on if set to Skin. It has nothing to do with the ambient light effect. You don't see it before applying the Poser materials as the figures load with other, more advanced, shaders applied - the default shader is, as it's name implies, the default used when no other shader is set so it gets used on imports such as Poser files.

The "ambient" you are seeing is probably the preview's attempt to show the material - the important question is does it remain when you render? All your screenshots are in preview mode.

RHaseltine posted at 10:30AM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227562

"Lighting Model" is a property of the Default DAZ Shader. It changes how specular highlights interact with the diffuse colour, and turns SSS on if set to Skin. It has nothing to do with the ambient light effect. [/RHaseltine]

Thank you very much for your reply. Ambient lights are indeed a part of the lighting model, otherwise there would not be an "ambient strength" setting associated with the lighting model. The lighting model is basically all the math that has to do with lighting, and ambient light is obviously a part of that. The same ambient issue happens in the final render as well. Also, please note that the two characters in the screen shot are identical, except for the light model has been changed on one. So that would eliminate the possibility of it being anything other than the surface parameters, otherwise the light would have the same effect on both characters.

Here is a PDF explaining basic lighting models, and the first thing mentioned is ambient light...

http://graphics.cs.cmu.edu/nsp/course/15-462/Spring04/slides/07-lighting.pdf

So anyhoo.... on your point about the DAZ shaders. Again, I'll say that I am new to DAZ Studio, so please be patient with me. Under the surfaces tab, either for the full object or for the separate materials ( e.g. face ), all of the ambient settings are set to 0, but obviously, a strong ambient effect is coming from somewhere.

Other than using the Poser MAT file, which I assume is removing advanced shaders in favor of simpler ones (?), how can I remove this ambient effect off of the default G4F so when there is little or no light, the skin becomes really dark to black?

I've attached another image illustrating the effect again, this time using a simple cube. What I need is for the unlit areas of G3F to be as dark as the dark areas of the cube. I would like to do this as "cleanly" as possible and not have to resort to tricks. I'm sure there is a shader setting somewhere to achieve this, but again, I am new to daz studio and having trouble finding it.

However, I do see your point re: the render. When I render now, they both have high ambient lighting...

So, it would seem that somewhere there is a strong ambient light by default, and in the preview mode, it shows up on some surfaces, and not all, but shows up on all for the final render.

One more thing... When I render it from a separate camera, the strongest light is coming from the side, when the only light I added to the scene is straight in front. So I am obviously missing something pretty fundamental here :S

Lighting4.jpg

I would like to start off with a completely dark scene and build up the lights. What is the best way of simply turning off all default lighting, so until I add a light of my own, everything renders as black?

p.s. I've also turned off the headlamp for the camera so that's not it.

FOUND IT!

Under the render settings, if I click on Environment, and change "Environment Mode" to "Scene Only", then everything is as expected.

Thanks for all your feedback and helping me work through it :D

LadyGodiva

Just to make life easier, does anybody know how to make the preview viewport ignore the dome as well?

Lighting model in the Default DAZ Shader does what I said - modifies specular response (which will affect how the surface responds to the HDR environment map) and SSS*. The term may be used in other ways elsewhere but not here. The different shaders are shown in preview, and render, differently of course - if not there would be no need for additional shaders.

• in fact it changes the shader used - we used to have the separate shaders, with different properties showing for each that are largely hidden in the Default Shader in favour of the common properties, available but they have been gone for a while now. The cartoon mode in DS also swaps the shader code on the Default DAZ Shader which is why it affects only surfaces using that shader.

Okay sorry RHaseltine I havent had much to do with the Genesis 3 up until this come up I had loaded her a total of 3-4 times if I was lucky. I thought the Genesis 3 was optimized for Iray and loaded with the Iray mat and you wouldn't get Lighting Model unless of course you somehow added something from earlier version like the default Daz shaders you would see with the genesis 2 although you got the optional Iray optimized Mats for them with 4.8? I loaded the G3F and nothing else then loaded point light that was fine you can then add 19 G3F's and it will stay the same.... all bright and cheery. Add anything else character or prop then the items added went to the dark even Victoria 7 which is different again. Add a distant light and your back at least you could see to pose what you just added. At no stage did I have the Lighting Model available until I added Aiko or the bike prop which obviously carry the default Daz shaders.

PS I am not questioning your comments as the explanation RE the Lighting Model is spot on, I value your opinion and just curious myself now. If my OCD kicks in I'll be up all night :-)

Most of the recent DAZ figures load with the Age of Armor SSS Shader applied, some post-Iray default to the Iray Uber Shader but have 3Delight settings using the AoA SSS Shader. Before we had that uber Surface was widely used, it's only when you go back beyond that that humans tend to use the Default DAZ Shader. Props are more likely to use the default shader as they often don't need the advanced features, depending on what they are meant to be made of.

Thank you RHaseltine I had observed over time the props tend to be more consistant with their use of the default Daz shaders and scrub up pretty good I might drop a Iray gold on a chain or paint job on a car/bike to make it pop in a scene most of it stays default. Export they get a different set anyway. The characters have been far more progressive in this department I am actually more familiar with the current set up through my work outside of Daz like Indigo Renderer/Materials, Substance Painter/Designer and Substance textures which are now available in my UE4 via the plug so it is all lining up nicely Daz included. It is a good thing for Daz users getting Iray I run Indigo and Renderman (Plus a few I will leave be on here) and while they do give different results all excellent IMO Iray stacks up against them....... Good price too :-)

I think you are getting confused with how shaders appear in the preview and how they render. These are completely independent and each shader behaves differently. Genesis 3 skin uses the AoA SSS shader. This shader displays in the preview as if it has very strong ambient. I think this is suppose to be some simulation of the SSS, because if you turn the SSS strength down, it gets weaker. This preview has nothing to do with how the skin looks in the render.

Also the AoA SSS shader is a 3Delight shader. If you are using Iray to render, the shader is being auto-converted to an Iray shader for the render. DAZ Studio will not show you the parameters of this auto converted shader after the render, but if you apply the Iray Uber Base to the skin surfaces that is probably similar to what was used.

The DAZ Default shader is an older, more basic shader that is use for most props and some older characters. It does not support SSS and has a more basic preview. If you load a prop/character with only Poser material (.pz2) the Poser material is auto converted to the DAZ Default shader. This conversion is fairly good on older Poser material, but DAZ cannot completely convert the newer Poser material with complex shaders. The results with newer Poser material is hit or miss.

The DAZ Default shader is also a 3Delight shader. It is also auto converted to a Iray shader if you render with Iray. You can apply the Iray Uber Base to do the conversion.

When you convert surfaces to use the Iray shader, it will change how the preview looks, but Iray character previews mostly look shinny and are misleading as far as how things look in the render.

If you are using Iray , you can use the nvida Iray display mode in the editor window to get an idea how surfaces and lighting will really look. If you are using 3Delight, you can use the AUX view window and an IPR render to see how surfaces really look.

The DAZ Default Shader does carry out SSS if the Lighting Model is set to Skin - however until very recently all the SSS parameters were hidden and the hard-wired values gave an excessively red result (I'm told, my colour vision couldn't really tell). This was why it was nice to have the stand-alone shaders for the Lighting Models, back before we had additional sahders, those gave access to the hidden properties.