I'm sure that everyone know what I'm talking about when I say that the V4 looks wicked awful when she bends over, as I have never really taken advantage of using the Morph tool to fix the problem, I have tried it with very little result to getting my ladies to look good when their thigh, arm, and buttocks are bent. Some good example of how I want them to look is here. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/tease---60-poses-for-v4/91567

I recommend checking some of the images in Hameleon's advertisements for the poses, he told me that he fixed some of the problems with the Morph tool using just the smooth feature only. I've never been able to get many results doing that. There are a lot of bending morphs out there I could buy as a "fix" for this problem, I have bought and tried a few of these out and one of them that comes to mind is Xameva, I bought one for the arm and one for the buttocks. The results? Unsatisfying. Some of these "fixes" sometimes increase the size of V4's butt, but making her butt bigger doesn't fix how terrible it looks when she's bent over. I'm not trying to make her booty bigger, I just want her to look sexy when she's bending over..And then there are other issues I've encountered with some of the Morph fixes, sometimes they may give off very unpleasant results in areas like crinkle up the textures. I tried an arm bending fix for the shoulders and the shoulder just sunk in.

And it's kind of complicated to fix the way V4 bends certain parts of her body because there are just too many errors that are easily noticeable. I do make use of the morph tool for handling pokethroughs, I remember way back I use to just try to use the dials but all that did was make clothing too big. Came to realize that Magnets is the key to handling certain poke throughs. And it's not just her butt, it's the hands, and feet as well that suffer from poor quality. Some people might agree that fixes are a waste of money, but when I first saw them I wanted to at least take the risk and see if they would be of any use. Seeing how I work on huge projects that require a lot of writing, Fixes could save time if they truly worked.

You'd think that with all these new models that Daz put out for Genesis they would just have V4 automatically fixed properly. I mean their up to like what now.....Michael 20? Next it'll be Victoria 100 and she'll still have poor flexibility. I haven't switched to Genesis yet, but thought about it because their figures have more of a realistic look to them in terms of morphs, not only that they've got a lot of cool monster models I want to and need for all those huge projects I've been working on lately.

Sadly I'm no Photoshop master, some people use that to correct problems by painting over the issues, etc. And if lucky enough, Zbrush also does the trick too..Unfortunately, I don't have Zbrush.

And what is the question? X&M's perfect booty is the best jcm fixes for v4s exploding ass that I've seen. Lali's jcms are ok, not as good as X&M's. The 2 don't mix. You'll need a sculpting tool (blender is free), some art talent (imagine that), and a welded posed final version of her mesh. Sculpt to ideal. Unable to do those things? Dunno, there is a weight mapped version...

EldritchCellar posted at 2:27PM Sun, 13 December 2015 - #4244041

And what is the question? X&M's perfect booty is the best jcm fixes for v4s exploding ass that I've seen. Lali's jcms are ok, not as good as X&M's. The 2 don't mix. You'll need a sculpting tool (blender is free), some art talent (imagine that), and a welded posed final version of her mesh. Sculpt to ideal. Unable to do those things? Dunno, there is a weight mapped version...

I can't tell if you were trying to be a smart ass or you're trying to help out. It wasn't a matter of asking a question really, I was just explaining my concerns with the problem I have with V4, I am fully aware that "Art talent" as you call it is necessary, but I'm still a novice and if someone with more skill than me doesn't mind helping me figure it out without being a smartass, then cool. I'm down with it. I am the perfect student when taught. Nothing wrong with wanting to learn from others sometimes. Normally I'd try to figure these things out on my own. But now that I get commission offers from people, I'm serious business when it comes down to perfecting the way my characters look.

Yup. V4 is an .obj file. If you don't like your prefab bought solutions built by someone else, and you don't want to remodel her, ummm, you're stuck with what you got. Plain and simple, no smart assery involved. I already explained to you in a brief sentence everything you need to know about the dilemma.

Art talent as I call it? What the hell else would you call it. Credit card talent? Lol.

Have you tried using Dawn. V4 is showing her years. But, pick up the WM version. With the tools that come with Poser and some perseverance you should be able to get tolerable results. If you're a real ass perfection aficionado, you'll have to learn some anatomy and learn how to do some modeling. Only solution I can think of. Maybe Ero's PE will remedy the V4 situation, for those who are concerned as you seem to be, who knows.

This used to be a helpful forum.

@Cyberdyne V4 WM (weightmapped) is a lot better and i also use X&M's perfect V4 stuff. Lali's bits from erogenesis available @ renderotica.com works also great.

But do not expect perfection V4 is an old model, G3F from daz 3d bends a lot better. Erogenesis is working on "project E" for poser looks promising, there are some threads about this on this forum and @runtimedna.com .

You have to realize that V4 is really old technology. She was released around 10 years ago. And, no, DAZ is not going to "fix" V4. They left her in the dust years ago when they released Genesis.

You can pick up V4WM at RDNA, she's free. But, once again, that's simply using a very aged model and attempting to fix all that is wrong with the figure. It's an improvement, but it's still V4. If you get V4WM, be sure to get the clothing conversion tool to convert your wardrobe for her - also free at RDNA.

You really should consider moving up to a figure created FOR weight mapping like Hivewire's Dawn. Dawn SE is really a nice figure.

Other weight mapped figures are Antonia, Miki4, Roxie, Rex, Anastasia, Tyler, Hivewire's Dusk and Baby Luna. All superior to V4.

BTW, don't know where you've been hiding at cyberdene but V4 will never be fixed by Daz. Anymore than A3 will be fixed by Daz. That's ancient history. All that is absorbed by the uber genesis/ds monetary amoeba now. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You really want that stuff, you'll have to go DS though... in all fairness. Actually might be the kind of art automation solution you're really looking for if you think about it, it's a glaring fork in the road near as I can tell.

CrystalGames, crosspost... but thinking the same thing.

EldritchCellar posted at 4:18PM Sun, 13 December 2015 - #4244057

CrystalGames, crosspost... but thinking the same thing.

It's way past time to retire V4. There are so many superior figures for Poser users. Not hard to crosspost that thought, LOL!

@Michaelwhatever, It still is a helpful forum, I help people all the time. More than you. As a matter of fact the only help I see being contributed by anyone else is simply regurgitations of what I've already said. Reread the thread comments to confirm.

CrystalGames, apologies for going off on you that one time. I can be... curmudgeonly. ;)

EldritchCellar posted at 4:27PM Sun, 13 December 2015 - #4244062

CrystalGames, apologies for going off on you that one time. I can be... curmudgeonly. ;)

No need for an apology......we all have good days and bad days. It's just a forum, LOL.

EldritchCellar posted at 3:34PM Sun, 13 December 2015 - #4244061

@Michaelwhatever, It still is a helpful forum, I help people all the time. More than you. As a matter of fact the only help I see being contributed by anyone else is simply regurgitations of what I've already said. Reread the thread comments to confirm.

It's ok i love you to. My name is Michel.

@Cyberdene: It would help to know what version of Poser you're using. If you have Poser 9+ and you need to use V4 for the work you're doing, then I would also suggest V4WM. But ultimately it doesn't matter which figure you use, whether it is one of the weightmapped figures or one of the Genesis figures, corrections are always needed to get closer to realism as none of them have realistic bending. If you're doing still renders then you can export the posed figure to zbrush and sculpt the necessary corrections yourself. It's not that difficult if you have proper reference images. If you don't have ZBrush I think blender can be used in place of it.

If you're doing animations then it gets a bit trickier as you're going to need to create custom JCMs. Magnets also help.

Might I suggest looking at Antonia for wieghtmapping and rigging. I find she has the best bending features ... if that could be adapted to V4 it would help. The are still timeless features in V4 that makes her continue to be useful.

I use weight painting on each of the specific joint rotations for the parts that don't bend nicely. This can fix the problem I have with Aiko 4, since I use her more than the base Victoria 4. Not a big issue for me. For this, I am using Poser Pro 2014, although I'll switch to Poser Pro 11 for my next scene involving Aiko 4.

"It's way past time to retire V4. There are so many superior figures for Poser users."

Debatable.. but its the same old story

Assuming one wishes to stay in poser as your main posing and rendering app. The alleged "superiority" of the other poser native figures is undermined by the lack of massive and ongoing vendor support and the refusal of many to essentialy adandon a Decades worth of hoarded V4 content (and to a lessser extent M4 content as well ).

So here we are, at the end of 2015 still discussing the myriad of add ons,fixes etc floating about to keep this aged figure in her perch as the primary poser female.....sad.

Although cyberdene doesn't realize it, this topic is such a dead horse. Think about it for a second, the whole premise is... "I don't like V4's ass, why doesn't daz fix v4's ass like genesis' ass? I don't like anybody's pay for fix for v4's ass. I can't fix v4's ass. Discuss?" Yeah, I'm a meanie but, Seriously?

For the OP:

Given the default geometry, Exnem's fix morphs, the whole set, represents the best "generic" JCM-enabled fixes for V4 limb movements.

However, that is not the case with any custom or even DAZ-distributed morphs/morph-packs. The fact is that there is no Lord of the Rings solution for customized morphs in default rigging for any wavefront.object-based figure. (There is no "One JCM to Rule Them All.")

However, the solution for this is very easy. Indeed, the solution for V4's butt, which you may not like, is very easy. In Poser, you can use the Morph Tool to morph geometry pretty much however you wish from with Poser, itself. You can save these morphs and can even create your own Joint Control Morphs or Dials in order to control them. Whenever V4 bends over, for instance, your hand-created "fix" for her butt can automagically be applied by a JCM that you, yourself, have created.

Once you get the hang of it, it's very easy to do. Whenever I am dealing with any custom sculpts for V4, I always create hand-sculpted Joint Controlled Morphs for them. It doesn't take very long and you can be as detailed, or not, as you wish with them.

So, less complaining, more Morph Tool using and learning... :) (Seriously, it's not hard. There's even a short walkthrough in the Poser manual on how to create JCMs, so you don't have any excuse for not doing it yourself.)

i thought i recalled something in the MP that does fixes other than the Perfect Vicky ones. [it] took some time to find, and it doesn't address the arse issue [though maybe this vendor has other fixes, as i just grabbed the first pack i ran across], but it looks like it does something to the hands... shrug...

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=99590

i'm one of those that just tries to do fixes and such in Photoshop, so i can't offer you much advice regarding the brush in Poser, but it does sound like, if you're unhappy with preset fix packages, that either you'll need to learn more about the brush, or further your skillset within Photoshop...

Regarding the free Poser Place Weight Mapped V4 at RDNA, keep in mind that this figure has no JCM's (although it retains V4's breast magnets), so there is room for improvement if one is inclined to create JCMs, keeping in mind that the morphs need to then be added to conforming clothing....

Every wire frame has potential, just as everyone of them has problem areas as well. Poser and Studio use old rigging technology. (Before someone chimes in on Genesis 3, stop, That was invented in the late 80's/early 90's. It is nothing new, so get over it already....)

Even thou wire frames have issues, that does not mean that they can not be rigged to bend far better than most of them do. Rigging figures to bend just like you and me is possible in Poser. I can rig them so you can tie them in knots, so can many other people..

Rigging is a double edged sword. Simple rigging does not bend so well, complex rigging does but complicates content creation more so than simple rigging. If you want a figure to bend really good, Poser Pro has enough tools to get the job done. Yes it is easier if you use some other tools, but you can do it with just Poser and a text editor if you really wanted too.

Simple examples...

This is V3, with not a single JCM,

This is Roxie.

This is a re rig of Pauline that I am working on, there is not a single joint jcm in it.

Years ago I gave up on the canned rigging that most figures have and sat down and learned how to rig in Poser. I have rigging experience in other software, and that helped.

If your not happy with what is offered, why not just fix it and be done with it? I gave up waiting for decent rigging, and like I said that was years ago. Not much has changed either. Yes there are figures that bend far better than Posette did, but all of them have issues somewhere. Don't think that learning to rig will solve all of the rigging issues thou. Because just the rigging will never solve all the joint issues in Poser or Studio on every wire frame.

A note on V4 rigging issues: V4 uses a sort of magnet system in its default rigging. For standard characters and included morphs, these don't pose much of a problem. However, particularly around the breast and buttocks regions, these magnets can cause unusual deformations in custom characters and in characters with either extreme morphs or extreme contortions.

These deformer magnets can only be seen in the GUI if, under Display, submenu Defomers, if Show All is checked. They can then be edited in order to correct for custom morph/pose issues using the Joint Editor tool.

Also, customized deformer magnets can be setup using JCMs, straight out of the GUI in Poser. Using the Poser rigging tools and the custome Morph Brush, one can virtually reconstruct/morph V4 to suite one's needs without ever having to leave Poser. IF one is creating standard human figures using V4 as a base. If one wishes good custom "morphs" and the like, with very high degrees of accuracy, other tools are preferable in regards to topology work. (And, in some cases, direct editing of the .cr2 might be preferable.) (Note: These deformer magnets are part of what is transferred to clothing when "Magnetize V4" scripts are run from V4's Pose library.)

IOW - The figure is very versatile "as is" and for virtually every problem one could encounter, there is a solution that is available from within Poser. That does not mean, however, that the solution that is available will be the "best" one or the one that the user would prefer to use. (For instance, shvrdavid re-rigs V3, which is perfectly acceptable and would be for V4, just as some vendors have done, themselves, for their custom characters. (ie: GND, AS, etc..))

But, there ARE plenty of perfectly viable solutions available, right out of the box, for characters rigged using Poser's default rigging scheme.

Is nudity allowed in this thread?

I do not think it should be allowed

"Is nudity allowed in this thread?"

"I do not think it should be allowed"

There's a nudity flag button provided as a content advisory that members are expected to use. Probably would explain those "multiple advisories" after the thread title. And at the header of any posts that indicate such. But seeing as you've been a member for 11 years that probably escaped your attention.

Interesting forum stats btw. Oh Snap indeed.

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?stats&who=glmmermaid

Dear Moderators, would you please do something about this incessant sniping and sarcasm and downright arrogance. It's unnecessary, counter-productive, and there should be no place for it here.

Thank you

Everyone told me to use the morph brush to fix issues, too, and I resisted because it was messy and useless. LOL.

But I persisted. I started by dialing down the strength and area of the brush before using it, and then gradually dialing it up again. Once you get used to the fact that you need to adjust the settings on the brush for each part of each mesh, depending on what you plan to do, it becomes a lot easier. I then spent a lot of time experimenting with all the different options just to see what they did. Now I can fix just about anything on a character's body. Faces are still a big challenge for me, especially low res faces. But I no longer have to worry about crappy bends in still images.

Given all the other stuff you can do with the morph brush, you're seriously limiting yourself by not learning how to use it. Like an artist who refuses to buy a particular pigment of paint or type of brush, it's silly to limit your tools and then complain about what you can't do without them.

It's not nearly as difficult as rigging a whole character. It just takes a bit of practice. (and ctrl-z is your best friend).

Please be polite folks & be mindful of others. Thank you.

Thank you 3dFineries. I was just about to add the same comment. This is a helpful thread and we need to share this information.

Just pinging for interest, this is important stuff! ;)

Boni posted at 2:05PM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257105

Thank you 3dFineries. I was just about to add the same comment. This is a helpful thread and we need to share this information.

I'm sorry, when I said, "It's silly to limit the tools you use and then complain about what you can't do without them," was that being unhelpful or too harsh or personally insulting? Because if we have to sugar coat everything, that won't be very helpful either.

3DFineries posted at 2:13PM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257068

Please be polite folks & be mindful of others. Thank you.

Where exactly am I being impolite? It would be much more helpful to know exactly what you're objecting to than to read a broad statement directed at every participant in the entire thread. We can't change our behavior if you won't tell us exactly what we're doing wrong.

As your post comes directly after mine, I have no choice but to assume you're talking to me, but don't quite have the whatever it is you need to say so directly.

I think they were probably just pinging this thread so that it would stay alive so that people can see how much of a meanie eldritchcellar is (of which I care not a whit). I also think that glmmrmaid is simply an alt of some forum member that has similar reasons for resurrecting this frankly pointless regurgitation of the same old crap thread. No reason to be paranoid moriador! :D

EldritchCellar posted at 2:16PM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257227

I think they were probably just pinging this thread so that it would stay alive so that people can see how much of a meanie eldritchcellar is (of which I care not a whit). I also think that glmmrmaid is simply an alt of some forum member that has similar reasons for resurrecting this frankly pointless regurgitation of the same old crap thread. No reason to be paranoid moriador! :D

Well, tbh, I'm sick of these "everyone be nice" posts by mods. If a mod has a problem with a particular post, they need to say so if they want to be taken seriously. :D I always assume that, in the absence of a specific target, that the post is directed at EVERYONE, but especially the post right above it. LOL.

Edit_ I meant to say "paranoid narcissist".

Aimed at myself of course! :)

moriador: We do appreciate your honesty. Our "be nice" policy is born of an onslaught of software bashing and personal attacks that filled the forums a few short months ago and we just want to avoid it now. We are not intentionally trying to censor your views. We are a bit "head shy" now. So we keep a close eye on the possibilities of a combative situation. This is NOT directed at you personally. A lot can be said in a respectful way that would otherwise be viewed as negative feedback. The message would be the same, the facts the same ... but not as derisive.

shvrdavid posted at 3:59PM Sat, 05 November 2016 - #4244590

Every wire frame has potential, just as everyone of them has problem areas as well. Poser and Studio use old rigging technology. (Before someone chimes in on Genesis 3, stop, That was invented in the late 80's/early 90's. It is nothing new, so get over it already....)

Even thou wire frames have issues, that does not mean that they can not be rigged to bend far better than most of them do. Rigging figures to bend just like you and me is possible in Poser. I can rig them so you can tie them in knots, so can many other people..

Rigging is a double edged sword. Simple rigging does not bend so well, complex rigging does but complicates content creation more so than simple rigging. If you want a figure to bend really good, Poser Pro has enough tools to get the job done. Yes it is easier if you use some other tools, but you can do it with just Poser and a text editor if you really wanted too.

Simple examples...

This is V3, with not a single JCM,

This is Roxie.

This is a re rig of Pauline that I am working on, there is not a single joint jcm in it.

Years ago I gave up on the canned rigging that most figures have and sat down and learned how to rig in Poser. I have rigging experience in other software, and that helped.

If your not happy with what is offered, why not just fix it and be done with it? I gave up waiting for decent rigging, and like I said that was years ago. Not much has changed either. Yes there are figures that bend far better than Posette did, but all of them have issues somewhere. Don't think that learning to rig will solve all of the rigging issues thou. Because just the rigging will never solve all the joint issues in Poser or Studio on every wire frame.

I wonder how you got it to look like this, how much time did you spend correcting a specific area? This is exactly what I want to achieve.

V3and V4 Weightmap here:

http://orphans.basicwiz.com/

I believe you will have to own the original models before these will work.

one thing: It says you need something called RTE. I have no idea what that is or where you would get it.

(RTE) Runtime Encoder/Decoder. I am not entirely sure this program is still around. The original author has left the scene or passed on. There was also JAVA version on a Geocities site years ago. You could try searching for that via Google or The WayBack Machine. I looked for it in my files here and the only versions I can find are installed in Poser3 and Poser4. There is no readme. I do recall that there were some issues with Version 2.something so stick to 1.something if you find it. It used to be here on Rendo before the site split into Rendo & Rotica

Here you go:

RTE Encoder py

Boni posted at 7:51AM Sun, 06 November 2016 - #4289065

Here you go:

RTE Encoder py

thanks for the effort Boni but that is 404 not found.

here is a page that is hosting version 1. I have not tried to download it yet.

http://www.3dpmr.com/Utilities.asp

ok that link just goes back to the dead link from Rendo.:(

You can get the RTEjava version zip Here

Personal attacks will be deleted and the nudity flag is required even when quoting.

Thank you for pulling this back ... any more attack of any kind and this thread will be locked. I was not as diligent as I perhaps should have been. Thank you Kendra and others who changed gears here.

LPR001 posted at 10:01AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289131

You can get the RTEjava version zip Here

Thanks for the link. Looks like that file is corrupted (the zip version). I'm running a PC and not sure if the .sit version would work.