@ rtamesis, estherau, and all others who now feel the (understandable) "knee-jerking" conditional reflex:

There's a reason why people like "woof359" are on many ignore lists. Please don't let him (and his "pardazeners", who will probably chime in "soon") derail this thread too.

Just ignore their posts, PLEASE for the sake of Project E!

EACH SINGLE answer posted is just a waste of time (because whatever you say won't change their minds in a million years, but will be used to cause more pointless "discussion").

It only derails this thread, and that's their real agenda achieved!

Or does anyone here still believe that you can "convince" them with arguments? LOL!

Thank you!

Peter

OK good point. I love the look of ProjectE. She looks really good. The best model I have ever seen in my life!

[wolf359]

Is the point just to have something "new"???

Well, it appears that the creator is creating the figure and attempting to solve common character problems with Poser characters. They're also responding to and acting on community requests, it seems. And, the figure doesn't look to bad, from what has been shown.

No, it's not some sort of character-panacea figure. But, it appears to be a lovingly crafted one and the creator is communicating with the community regularly. As with anything, we'll see how good it is when it's finished and released. That can't be a "bad" thing in any sense of the word, can it?

"if V4 is so great - why are you now almost fully using G2."

Fair question Esther. First it is not that V4 (and her DECADE of fixes& enhancements) is so "great" per se.

It is just that no other figure has offered the desirable combination of versatility( ethnically & species wise),improved performance in animation ,better overall user experience and broad, top tier vendor content support..until G1-G2 etc.

As a vendor myself I am curious how the new figure will offer opportunies for new innovative content tech going forward for vendors.

For example if the process of converting V4 clothing is actually better than "d*cking around in the fitting room" that is great.

But more details on this process ,such as its dependancy on external tools VS poser pro native tools , should be explained, in detail ,IMHO.

But I must ask the question; If all V4 content can be refitted with the ease implied by the figure maker then what is the incentive for people to buy new Content made specifically for the figure??.

Would it not make better economic sense to spent the next year after its release, trying out all of the V4 clothing before spending more money??.

And this still ties the figures fortunes to the aged V4 in a substantial way at any rate

These and other Small market realities, too numerous to mention, are why I dont see how this figure offers any subtantial long term shift in the current paradigm.

Just one man's measured & unemotional opinion.

wolf359 posted at 8:31PM Tue, 15 December 2015 - #4244301

But I must ask the question; If all V4 content can be refitted with the ease implied by the figure maker then what is the incentive for people to buy new Content made specifically for the figure??.

Would it not make better economic sense to spent the next year after its release, trying out all of the V4 clothing before spending more money??.

And this still ties the figures fortunes to the aged V4 in a substantial way at any rate

These and other Small market realities, too numerous to mention, are why I dont see how this figure offers any subtantial long term shift in the current paradigm.

Just one man's measured & unemotional opinion.

Maybe it will be an incentive to create new content and not to rehash old one.

For example, over DAZ I saw a maid dress for G3F which is nearly equal to the dozen of maid dresses made in the last 15 years. Meanwhile a partial recap of the situation for Asia:

• Korea: only a single hanbok, no male clothing
• China: a pair of hanfus IIRC, no male clothing
• Tibet: nothing
• India: some almost toonish sarees, a pair of anarkalis

I'd say that beginning to support the traditional clothing of 1/3 of human kind is more urgent than deliver the nth maid dress, isn't it? so, if there is no more market for maid dresses, the better.

[wolf359]

But I must ask the question; If all V4 content can be refitted with the ease implied by the figure maker then what is the incentive for people to buy new Content made specifically for the figure??.

There are lots of bits of older content out there for V4. However, that older content doesn't take advantage of newer program features. (Materials are a big issue, old python scripts, etc.) And, honestly, some of the older V4 stuff could use some polishing. If one has enough of that content, once can actually "see" the advancement of a particular vendor's skills in action as their product quality increases.

Plus - People still shout for new content for older figures. There's no reason to expect that they wouldn't shout for more content for a new figure, if that figure is well done and becomes popular. Though, I don't think it will be a V4 killer, right off the bat. It's gonna take some time and a lot of support to be able to even approach that. AND, there is still the very critical and very serious issue of distribution - Without the right distribution for the figure, it won't become popular and certainly won't reach its maximum saturation point, no matter what that is, very quickly. The trouble is, considering how this figure is constructed and what its emphasis "could" be, it may market itself out of being accepted by the most popular distributors.

These and other Small market realities, too numerous to mention, are why I dont see how this figure offers any subtantial long term shift in the current paradigm.

Just one man's measured & unemotional opinion.

I would agree, though for different reasons. With one caveat, though - It will not do so in the short term. In the long term, the results will be up to different factors than you stated, in my measured, unemotional, opinion. :)

Why do people buy clothes for the Genesis line when they can just refit their V4 clothing? Why should the reasons for PE be any different?

DreaminGirl posted at 5:49PM Tue, 15 December 2015 - #4244359

Why do people buy clothes for the Genesis line when they can just refit their V4 clothing?

'Cause the product renders are better. :)

Morkonan posted at 10:47AM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244404

'Cause the product renders are better. :)

This is the real reason: DAZ quality requirements for promo images are very high and strictly enforced. Even a simple cube rendered with those quality standards, would look better than the average product you see in other shops.

The main thing a new figure should do is,

Inspire to render with, tell stories with.

Inspire to make content for.

The more content available or recycleble the better.

Preview renders are super important, not to get the micromanagement-feedback of 1000 people and end up with a frankenstein character.

But to follow the progress and looking forward to the result.

So....thumbs up!

Umm, I think people are so busy trotting out arguments that they missed the forest for the trees.

Ero is first and foremost making PE for -his own purposes-. Just as he did all the McGuyvering known as Lali's Bits for V4; it was for -his- comics. The impression I've gotten is that he's kind of gotten dragged into selling his non comic content. Or put another way, IMHO he doesn't give a rat's fuzzy ass about the 'vendor market' and all its nonsense and the self proclaimed pseudo experts proclamations. He isn't looking to be the next Davo or Stone Mason or anyone else. He isn't cackling maniacally over a modeling program, waiting for lightning to strike the kite flying on a copper wire to help create THE V4 KILLER.....!!!!!(add ramping reverb+echo). He's making a figure for his own creative needs, and is proving kind enough to actually share that with the rest of us.

Why does he keep bringing up V4? because like a lot of us, he has a lot of clothing for said mesh, and he would like to continue using it in his comic projects. Which makes sense when you think of things as resources, not fetish objects. The more existing resources can be used, the less interruption in workflow exists when moving to newer, more capable tech (face it kids, V4 is still Poser 4 tech with a big helping of community created kludges to make it halfway work right).

I'm more than happy to wait for him to get things right, and judge things on the actual result. Not on what so and so thinks or 'everybody knows'. Remember, everybody 'knew' that the world was flat, once. Ooops.

DreaminGirl posted at 7:22AM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244359

Why do people buy clothes for the Genesis line when they can just refit their V4 clothing? ...

Because there is no Morph Brush in DAZ Studio; conversions are usually good, but not perfect.

As far as PE goes, I'm looking forward to it because EG has a gift for sculpting faces and expressions....

chaecuna posted at 9:13AM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244353

Maybe it will be an incentive to create new content and not to rehash old one.

For example, over DAZ I saw a maid dress for G3F which is nearly equal to the dozen of maid dresses made in the last 15 years. Meanwhile a partial recap of the situation for Asia:

• Korea: only a single hanbok, no male clothing
• China: a pair of hanfus IIRC, no male clothing
• Tibet: nothing
• India: some almost toonish sarees, a pair of anarkalis

I'd say that beginning to support the traditional clothing of 1/3 of human kind is more urgent than deliver the nth maid dress, isn't it? so, if there is no more market for maid dresses, the better.

There is NO incentive not to rehash old content; the OBJ is already made, it just needs a little adjustment for a new figure - go look at clothing over on Daz. Some of the g3F products go all the way back to the V3/P6 Jessi era

The problem is that with most vendors, it is about their art, not ours. They only make what they are personally interested in. They work under the rubric of: If I make it, they will buy it.

There is also the issue of vendor's aggressive unwillingness to learn any feature that has been added to Poser since Version 6. Look at materials - most vendors still make materials .pz2s (A hack for Poser 4. Hell, there are still vendors making .rsr files) and refuse to make .mc6 files - which, according to the 'Rosity vendor agreement, is a requirement.

In a similar vein, I actually had a vendor tell me that they didn't have time to learn the features in Poser 9 - while making their 1st product for Dawn (A figure that can only be used in Poser 9 or later).

Dale B posted at 10:28PM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244486

Umm, I think people are so busy trotting out arguments that they missed the forest for the trees.

Ero is first and foremost making PE for -his own purposes-. Just as he did all the McGuyvering known as Lali's Bits for V4; it was for -his- comics. The impression I've gotten is that he's kind of gotten dragged into selling his non comic content. Or put another way, IMHO he doesn't give a rat's fuzzy ass about the 'vendor market' and all its nonsense and the self proclaimed pseudo experts proclamations. He isn't looking to be the next Davo or Stone Mason or anyone else. He isn't cackling maniacally over a modeling program, waiting for lightning to strike the kite flying on a copper wire to help create THE V4 KILLER.....!!!!!(add ramping reverb+echo). He's making a figure for his own creative needs, and is proving kind enough to actually share that with the rest of us.

Why does he keep bringing up V4? because like a lot of us, he has a lot of clothing for said mesh, and he would like to continue using it in his comic projects. Which makes sense when you think of things as resources, not fetish objects. The more existing resources can be used, the less interruption in workflow exists when moving to newer, more capable tech (face it kids, V4 is still Poser 4 tech with a big helping of community created kludges to make it halfway work right).

I'm more than happy to wait for him to get things right, and judge things on the actual result. Not on what so and so thinks or 'everybody knows'. Remember, everybody 'knew' that the world was flat, once. Ooops.

One word: THIS!

Peter

She's cute all right. I liked Lali too. I don't think I have any artistic use for anyone elses figures anymore though... other than as collectibles and specimens to be cut open and examined. Rendering isn't really my interest with Poser... so I'm probably in a very extreme minority. I'd be more inclined to fetishize a sublimely crafted ant or poodle moth. I liked those urban waif in sweater renders...

chaecuna posted at 12:47PM Thu, 17 December 2015 - #4244482

Morkonan posted at 10:47AM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244404

'Cause the product renders are better. :)

This is the real reason: DAZ quality requirements for promo images are very high and strictly enforced. Even a simple cube rendered with those quality standards, would look better than the average product you see in other shops.

Yup. And, that's something I've tried to point out to hopeful vendors when they wonder why their products aren't selling in other markets. But, as evidenced by the general quality of promo pics at places other than DAZ... few listen or pay attention to quality control in their marketing efforts. :)

@daleb - Very true! Thanks for reminding us and thanks to Ero for giving us a chance to benefit from his/her private world. :)

Thank you for bringing this thread back on topic. We need to keep this a supportive forum.

Well, in any case I like the look of her. She looks both pretty and natural. V4 killer or not, she definitely has potential. After seeing Erogenesis' recent work with Pauline I am definitely looking forward to this figure. And the community seems supportive enough. ;)

erogenesis posted more renders of Project E at his deviant art website if you want to see his progress.

http://erogenesis-art.deviantart.com

I'd say, by the way this figure is coming along, that it is the first serious contender as a Poser-native V4 killer I have ever seeing.

Dale B posted at 4:32PM Mon, 28 December 2015 - #4244486

Umm, I think people are so busy trotting out arguments that they missed the forest for the trees.

I trotted my arguments out. Lead them through the forest, past all those blasted trees - in fact I lead them all the way to water. They wouldn't drink. Very disconcerting really.

On a more serious note of course I'm looking forward to seeing the new character come to fruition. I think the approach here is very sound - make a character that fixes problems you have with V4, rather than trying to make something that you think will appeal to everyone and his brother. If it becomes an eventual V4 replacement, well hooray.. if not, eh, who cares?

Curiouser and curiouser...

I'd really like to see this figure... nekkid - Bones, topography and all. :) (Not so interested in the textured stuff, yet. But, the figure looks like it performs well.) With good JCMs and some custom morphs and the like, it could be a nice show-stopper. I wouldn't declare it to be a V4-Killer though. Not yet.

You can see nude renders, wire frames, etc and his progress at his deviant art website. He says so far that he has managed to accomplish most of his goals with Project E using weight mapping alone and avoid using JCMs.

hey, might have a really cool update in a few days or so... things have been crazy, but hopefully for the better now...!

I now use Dawn SE as my go to figure and very rarely do I use V4 but I do on occasions. That does not mean I not interested in Project E, I have been for some time know.

Converting V4 clothes for use with Dawn is no real problem, especially with some of the products on sale to help the process. That has not stopped me buying new content made with Dawn in mind, especially the dynamic clothing that has been produced and I don't really see this being different with Project E. It is not the fact that the old clothing can be converted that limits sales, it is the lack of variety in the clothing that limits.

Gorgeous lady by a splendid artist. I will be happy to support her. Cheerio lululee

erogenesis posted at 7:11AM Fri, 05 February 2016 - #4253047

hey, might have a really cool update in a few days or so... things have been crazy, but hopefully for the better now...!

Awesome! Getting antsy....

hornet3d posted at 7:18PM Sat, 06 February 2016 - #4253054

I now use Dawn SE as my go to figure and very rarely do I use V4 but I do on occasions. That does not mean I not interested in Project E, I have been for some time know.

Converting V4 clothes for use with Dawn is no real problem, especially with some of the products on sale to help the process. That has not stopped me buying new content made with Dawn in mind, especially the dynamic clothing that has been produced and I don't really see this being different with Project E. It is not the fact that the old clothing can be converted that limits sales, **it is the lack of variety in the clothing that limits. **

Exactly!

Do a search in the Renderosity MP for "Viking". (Yes, I know there are products available elsewhere; I bought them.) WTF? Thousands of miniskirts and bikinis, but not a single viking outfit except one for Apollo Max. It's not as though Vikings are that niche of a genre. They're pretty central to a lot of contemporary fantasy art and literature.

Anyway, V4 does a lot of stuff, but her "fixes" are far from perfect and often incompatible with each other or with popular body morphs. And her expressions have always been extremely disappointing.

Plus, erogenesis has a very rare quality as a 3d modeller: he seems to know what young female humans actually look like. Whether he knows with the same detail what middle-aged women look like is anyone's guess. But should he decide to make some more mature morphs, I suppose he could go cruising for cougars, if necessary, you know.... for the art.

I look forward to the release of PE. And I don't think promo renders are going to be a problem when it comes to marketing. Wow... the man can really, well and truly POSE his figures

Wow fellas!!! A lot of comments! Ok I'll take this in steps hehe. More replies coming after this one.

First of all, I mentioned a few days ago that I had good news... well I do but not the one I intended. In short I had a great idea but as usual Poser didn't play along. Grr.

The actual good news is that the end is in sight now! I just want to thank my beta team for their relentless support despite my grumblings and incessant complaining about how HARD it is to make a figure in Poser. Also I would like to thank Chuck from Poser who has been very responsive to all my whining despite his own problems (I'm sure he hates me by now, I've been a real dick at times!).

Anyway. The rigging is almost complete and once it is, its just a matter of making SHITLOADS of morph packs and getting vendors interested. I sincerely hope we can automate the conversion of old content from V4 and G2 (unless DAZ decides to lock down).

The pictures below are not of the most recent rigging effort, I haven't had time to render anything yet.

Anyway, some replies:

Morkonan posted at 11:34PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4243700

[erogenesis]...

Not sure what you meant with the chin but I can tell you this: I have been utterly unimpressed with recent rigging jobs regarding the jaw and opening and closing of the mouth with Dawn and Pauline. When a jaw opens, the cheeks get stretched, and PE does this, thankfully! For the rest its all a matter of morphing what you want, as far as I am concerned. I'll do my bit with supplying options, but you're entirely free to do yours if you want!

Great previews and such!

On the chin: See the example link(s) I gave. Notice the topology around the chin? You can check V4, too, if you want. Now, compare that to your topology. You have nice flowing edge-loops around most of the mouth area, which is great for certain expressions and mouth morphs. (There's a star at the bottom of the cheek, but that might be fine. You'll only know when you start to create morphs. :) )

But, notice the comparison differences. In the exampled pic(s) and/or V4, the chin is topologically isolated, for the most part. There are reasons for that, of course. I don't remember if you said the figure's mouth was fully rigged or if you're using rigged expressions. But, if you're doing either of these, then getting some isolation of the chin area will definitely help the chin keep its shape with rigging-based morphs. For geometry based morphs (morph targets) the issue without isolating the chin a bit more is going to be felt a bit when creating those morphs. The flowing edge-loops will tend to naturally deform according to that long, flowing, shape, which can make keeping the chin well defined during morph creation somewhat difficult. And, during application of multiple morphs, this "could" become compounded.

I'm not familiar with the topology of the figures you mentioned. I'm happy with V4, what can I say. BUT, I certainly want to play with your new creation and that's a fact! But, you can see, somewhat, what I'm talking about in the advertisements for some expression packs. Typically, many expression packs are "cartoony" expressions - They're not realistic. Because of V4's somewhat "light" topology around the mouth area, you usually get funky bottom lips, squished chins, horrible "grimaces" and the like with many face-morph packs. V4 is an excellent figure, by-and-large, but it could have used a few more polys around the mouth area. Also, considering the longevity of V4, there are a huge number of custom head morphs and many of them fall afoul of the fact that V4 could benefit from a bit more oomph in the face department in regards to polycount around certain areas, like the chin/lower-mouth region. (Between bottom of lip and top of chin, also, unrelated, around top of mouth near the sides of nose. But, that's just complaints about V4 and custom faces/expressions.)

You've got a good bit of polys, there. More than V4, at least, and that's an improvement. When you're creating morphs and working with the mouth, just pay attention to how the chin and lower-lip area deform. Take note of how easy/difficult it is to make morphs that include the lower face while preserving the chin region. And, do the same when making expressions or rigging the mouth, whichever you are doing. IF you see the chin shrinking in the vertical when deforming and/or getting "pointy" or becoming more undefined when it shouldn't, consider isolating it a bit. Not, necessary, with edge-loops, but you can use the "squarish" topo evident in the example pics or in V4's own face as a guide.

Just a comment, by the way. Until you get a chance to get us some hi-res topo or, perhaps, UVs, it's all good, so far.

Oh, by the way... UVs, groups, etc? What's happening, there? :)

Check this image

That's a derivative of V4. Yes V4 lacked in polys in some places, but it was still doable. PE.mesh5 was indeed designed to fill the gaps that V4 suffered from!

I think I know what you mean with the chin polys and rigging (and yes her mouth, and innermouth, are entirely interconnected and thus rigged) and yes I agree that good poly distribution can greatly help with natural morphing and deformation, although in the end it's definitely up to the modeller / rigger to be able to make it work. I'm very happy you're content with what you're seeing. I don't claim to be an expert at all at this, so I'm happy I got it right lol!

UV islands:

• head
• torso
• arms
• legs
• eyes
• lashes
• fingernails
• toenails
• mouth
• teeth
• genital areas

I'll hook you up with some wires once I'm content with the rigging and figure. I'll provide a short time-frame for everyone to bitch and whine about it so that I can see if I need to change anything before proceeding.

cheers Morkonan!

honzu posted at 11:34PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4243786

erogenesis posted at 8:16PM Fri, 11 December 2015 - #4243550

PS:

Her details are currently:

• Articulated toes

Do they support Talk Designer?

Yes, its a special form of sign-language. I have yet to convince Poser of this development though... :D

estherau posted at 11:36PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4243860

In that last render above, the front of her neck looks a little amorphous. Has she got laryngeal detail? Love esther

Not sure what you mean, but yeah she does have a bit of a 'throat' inside there. cheers :)

wolf359 posted at 11:37PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244157

"Good news is that I found a very fast way to convert V4 clothing to this girl. Its not supersleek DS tech but its much better than dicking around endlessly in the fitting room. Everything you've seen her wearing up until now is converted V4 stuff." .

Hi, can someone explain to me the actual advantage of buying yet another female figure and converting V4 content over to her?

"G2 and G3 stuff might also be possible this way"

I would not make any promises about genesis content going forward if I correctly understand Daz impending; "Install only through Daz studio" DRM system

Granted I am a full-on Genesis 2 in C4D user now (V4 is Dead to me), But honeslty I have not seen a render or morph here that cannot be duplicated with existing V4 with all her native content not needing any converting.

Is the point just to have something "new"???

If you use Genesis in C4D then there might not be any advantage for you at all. C4D is a very good application which I am also looking into using.

Like others have said, Project E is firstly a figure which I intend on using in Poser, and perhaps it will prove useful to others too. I have used V4 for 3 years very intensively, and designed 'Lali's Bits' to help fix some of her bending issues. She's provided me with a fairly decent performance in those 3 years, I certainly cannot complain much, but she began to lack in certain areas, particularly with bending and anatomical detail. Hence Project E.

Also, in the lest few years there have been a great many developments in the world of 3D figures, mostly at the hand of DAZ, of which I took much inspiration from in developing Project E. Genesis 3 is among the best figures out there, but yeah, she don't work in Poser.

You'll have to see for yourself if PE is useful for you, and I'd love to see it rigged in C4D. I might even recommend Genesis 3 depending on what you need. PE's mesh was designed for bending more so than current figures (as far as I can tell) and yeah she has much more intricate anatomy than most figures, including a thoroughly integrated mouth and back of the throat. If that fascinates you, then you might like her!

and yeah Dale B is right, I don't give a fat flying fuck about this whole figure circus lol! I just want a good figure myself, and it seems a lot of people are interested in my shenanigans! I will admit I do feel bad for all the stranded Poser users though, it is a bit unacceptable that the founders of this scene are lacking so terribly while DAZ is just producing amazing shit. I hope I can help to make Poser users happy again.

estherau posted at 11:37PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244203

if V4 is so great - why are you now almost fully using G2. I really like the look of erogeneisis. She looks awesome. I want a new figure. V4 has some real disadvantages. She doesn' scale particularly well for a start - in poser that is. And I have tried both poser and DS and I prefer poser. I've tried genesis in poser and I prefer native poser figures in poser. Love esther

cheers esther! Yeah the scaling thing is a massive item on the PE menu. I have some skilled folks helping me with getting that right. I'm not going to lie to you about this though: Poser is indeed a very cool app, I love it, but it needs work deperately, and I hope PE will help to motivate them to focus on the right developments.

wolf359 posted at 11:39PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244301

"if V4 is so great - why are you now almost fully using G2."

Fair question Esther. First it is not that V4 (and her DECADE of fixes& enhancements) is so "great" per se.

It is just that no other figure has offered the desirable combination of versatility( ethnically & species wise),improved performance in animation ,better overall user experience and broad, top tier vendor content support..until G1-G2 etc.

As a vendor myself I am curious how the new figure will offer opportunies for new innovative content tech going forward for vendors.

For example if the process of converting V4 clothing is actually better than "d*cking around in the fitting room" that is great.

But more details on this process ,such as its dependancy on external tools VS poser pro native tools , should be explained, in detail ,IMHO.

But I must ask the question; If all V4 content can be refitted with the ease implied by the figure maker then what is the incentive for people to buy new Content made specifically for the figure??.

Would it not make better economic sense to spent the next year after its release, trying out all of the V4 clothing before spending more money??.

And this still ties the figures fortunes to the aged V4 in a substantial way at any rate

These and other Small market realities, too numerous to mention, are why I dont see how this figure offers any subtantial long term shift in the current paradigm.

Just one man's measured & unemotional opinion.

DAZ does a lot of things very very right (but also many things very wrong!) and I've definitely been inspired by what they've been doing. Just reading your comment does help remind me that I need to supply ethnic morphs and animation-proof rigging, which is also in my own interest as a comic artist.

I cannot offer any details as to these automated conversions just yet, since they are still getting designed, but for the most part, the theory works nicely within Poser itself, save for the morphs.

The incentives to buy new content are plentyfold.

First of all, have you evern been shopping with girls before? And have you seen the content of their closets? Thus have you noticed the disconnect between their need for new clothes, and their stockplie of clothes at home? haha. Some people just like shopping, regardless of whether they already have something similar. I KNOW Poser and DS artists like that.

Also, conversions are never perfect, even in DS they still need work. People can get bored and would rather pay to have someone experienced fix it for them, or simply buy clothes tailor-made for that figure.

Along those lines, its basically like DAZ has been doing for years now, vendors just rehash old content for a new figure and make more money off it that way. Basically customers are paying for the conversion. Its maybe a bit of a sleazy marketing gimick, but hey, if people are willing to pay for that, fuck it, it helps the vendor, it helps the figure... boom.

Like I already said before, just check her out if you want, her base mesh will be free. If she's cool, go for it, if not, no biggie.

chaecuna posted at 11:48PM Sun, 07 February 2016 - #4244353

wolf359 posted at 8:31PM Tue, 15 December 2015 - #4244301

I'd say that beginning to support the traditional clothing of 1/3 of human kind is more urgent than deliver the nth maid dress, isn't it? so, if there is no more market for maid dresses, the better.

lol! good flipping point!!!

ok next round...

Morkonan posted at 1:21AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244357

[wolf359]

But I must ask the question; If all V4 content can be refitted with the ease implied by the figure maker then what is the incentive for people to buy new Content made specifically for the figure??.

There are lots of bits of older content out there for V4. However, that older content doesn't take advantage of newer program features. (Materials are a big issue, old python scripts, etc.) And, honestly, some of the older V4 stuff could use some polishing. If one has enough of that content, once can actually "see" the advancement of a particular vendor's skills in action as their product quality increases.

there are several tshirt models available out there, available for V4, G2, G3, but if they'd want to make it for PE too, cool, but I'll tell them that I'm prepared to add some additional dynamic morphs for free if they're prepared to make it for PE. PE is all about versatility, and I'm prepated to provide for that, freely, as long as art takes central stage...

And its not all selfless contributions, business-wise it will help me boost my sales for PE... and help me buy nice beer :D

Plus - People still shout for new content for older figures. There's no reason to expect that they wouldn't shout for more content for a new figure, if that figure is well done and becomes popular.

Well, the image I hope to spread of PE is that this is a normal everyday (albeit super-good-looking) 20 year old. So I hope it will inspire vendors to want to cater for this girl by looking in fashion magazines, and making trendy everyday stuff for her!

Though, I don't think it will be a V4 killer, right off the bat. It's gonna take some time and a lot of support to be able to even approach that.

Nor do I expect it to be. Genesis is far more successful a V4 killer than any figure has been yet, but Genesis is a marketing machine, not really a device to doodle with. PE will hopefully be this device. What I also hope is that it will inspire people to think differently about figures and CG content art, that its about tinkering and tweaking, and not trends and allegiances... and that Poser will clock on that a good figure, with a personalized experience, makes a big difference and that versatility (and reliability!!) is the key. I hope it will inspire people to make more good figures and give artists many more facinating options.

DreaminGirl posted at 1:22AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244359

Why do people buy clothes for the Genesis line when they can just refit their V4 clothing? Why should the reasons for PE be any different?

word.

Morkonan posted at 1:23AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244404

DreaminGirl posted at 5:49PM Tue, 15 December 2015 - #4244359

Why do people buy clothes for the Genesis line when they can just refit their V4 clothing?

'Cause the product renders are better. :)

lol ain't that the truth!

chaecuna posted at 1:24AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244482

Morkonan posted at 10:47AM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244404

'Cause the product renders are better. :)

This is the real reason: DAZ quality requirements for promo images are very high and strictly enforced. Even a simple cube rendered with those quality standards, would look better than the average product you see in other shops.

I shit you not, although I hate the idea, I am going to ask this of people that wanna make stuff for PE, even if I have to make the promos myself. it just works. its the very reason I was pissed off at SM when they presented Pauline for the first time... utterly lousy show of marketing! the better the marketing for poser content, the better for all of us in the end...

Biscuits posted at 1:24AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244483

The main thing a new figure should do is,

Inspire to render with, tell stories with.

Inspire to make content for.

The more content available or recycleble the better.

Preview renders are super important, not to get the micromanagement-feedback of 1000 people and end up with a frankenstein character.

But to follow the progress and looking forward to the result.

So....thumbs up!

thanks bissy :D knuf!!!!

Dale B posted at 1:25AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244486

Umm, I think people are so busy trotting out arguments that they missed the forest for the trees.

Ero is first and foremost making PE for -his own purposes-. Just as he did all the McGuyvering known as Lali's Bits for V4; it was for -his- comics. The impression I've gotten is that he's kind of gotten dragged into selling his non comic content. Or put another way, IMHO he doesn't give a rat's fuzzy ass about the 'vendor market' and all its nonsense and the self proclaimed pseudo experts proclamations. He isn't looking to be the next Davo or Stone Mason or anyone else. He isn't cackling maniacally over a modeling program, waiting for lightning to strike the kite flying on a copper wire to help create THE V4 KILLER.....!!!!!(add ramping reverb+echo). He's making a figure for his own creative needs, and is proving kind enough to actually share that with the rest of us.

Why does he keep bringing up V4? because like a lot of us, he has a lot of clothing for said mesh, and he would like to continue using it in his comic projects. Which makes sense when you think of things as resources, not fetish objects. The more existing resources can be used, the less interruption in workflow exists when moving to newer, more capable tech (face it kids, V4 is still Poser 4 tech with a big helping of community created kludges to make it halfway work right).

I'm more than happy to wait for him to get things right, and judge things on the actual result. Not on what so and so thinks or 'everybody knows'. Remember, everybody 'knew' that the world was flat, once. Ooops.

cheers for that Dale! I'm happy that people get where I'm coming from!

WandW posted at 1:25AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244489

DreaminGirl posted at 7:22AM Wed, 16 December 2015 - #4244359

Why do people buy clothes for the Genesis line when they can just refit their V4 clothing? ...

Because there is no Morph Brush in DAZ Studio; conversions are usually good, but not perfect.

As far as PE goes, I'm looking forward to it because EG has a gift for sculpting faces and expressions....

thanks WandW! I hope it will all be pleasing to work with. I've been dying myself to get working with her. I've had to be abnormally patient to not blast on ahead with her. I wanted to get the rigging absolutely perfect before making morphs... ugh...!

ssgbryan posted at 1:26AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244537

There is NO incentive not to rehash old content; the OBJ is already made, it just needs a little adjustment for a new figure - go look at clothing over on Daz. Some of the g3F products go all the way back to the V3/P6 Jessi era

The problem is that with most vendors, it is about their art, not ours. They only make what they are personally interested in. They work under the rubric of: If I make it, they will buy it.

Word. Hey if it works, and people buy it, I ain't complaining. How many times has the simple tshirt been redesigned in real life?

There is also the issue of vendor's aggressive unwillingness to learn any feature that has been added to Poser since Version 6. Look at materials - most vendors still make materials .pz2s (A hack for Poser 4. Hell, there are still vendors making .rsr files) and refuse to make .mc6 files - which, according to the 'Rosity vendor agreement, is a requirement.

In a similar vein, I actually had a vendor tell me that they didn't have time to learn the features in Poser 9 - while making their 1st product for Dawn (A figure that can only be used in Poser 9 or later).

lol! ok that's quite serious!

EldritchCellar posted at 1:27AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244572

She's cute all right. I liked Lali too. I don't think I have any artistic use for anyone elses figures anymore though... other than as collectibles and specimens to be cut open and examined. Rendering isn't really my interest with Poser... so I'm probably in a very extreme minority. I'd be more inclined to fetishize a sublimely crafted ant or poodle moth. I liked those urban waif in sweater renders...

The next model I'll make is a big fat detailed poodle moth!!!! just for you lol!

cheers cellar!

Boni posted at 1:28AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244913

Thank you for bringing this thread back on topic. We need to keep this a supportive forum.

cheers Boni! :)

Frequency posted at 1:28AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4244932

Well, in any case I like the look of her. She looks both pretty and natural. V4 killer or not, she definitely has potential. After seeing Erogenesis' recent work with Pauline I am definitely looking forward to this figure. And the community seems supportive enough. ;)

aye indeed they are! I hope PE will prove useful to them! many thanks guys!

rtamesis posted at 1:29AM Mon, 08 February 2016 - #4245620

erogenesis posted more renders of Project E at his deviant art website if you want to see his progress.

http://erogenesis-art.deviantart.com

thanks for your support and helping me with my PR dude hahaha!!

pikespit, rtamesis, estherau, dale, freq, wandw, hornet, lulu, fineries, Morkonan, trobbins, chaecuna, cellar, ssgbryan, bissy, dreamin, esther and others that I haven't mentioned, thanks for the support! I'm sorry if I haven't replied to you personally, but I truly appreciate your comments and assistance. I'm sure wolf means well. The 3D figure scene is going through a rough patch and it's no surprise that people can get a little cranky / super-critical as a result... me included lol!!!!

Lets just see where this goes. Its been a big challenge but I'm finally excited again about PE and I really look forward to using her in my comics. Like I keep saying, I hope she'll be of use to you too!

If she looks anything like the renders you've just posted, out of the box or with a minimum of fussing (I understand that what a creator can do with their own creation is entirely different than what casual end users might come up with) than I'd say you have achieved a great success with PE. She's strikingly beautiful, and this from someone who is totally jaded with human/realistic figure renders. I think I've got a little crush. He he. Great work Erogenesis.

I would love a crack at adapting some merchant resource makeups I have accumulated for V4!

I'm not a big vendor or anything like that, but you can bet I will definitely support Project E! I'm betting a few others I know will do the same. She is absolutely astounding!

Thanks for updating us. I wonder if you know how much people are looking forwards to seeing ProjectE come to life. I'm superexcited. Love esther

We'll scream to the Gods for her success

So Hott

Erogenesis has a new update at his Deviant Art site. Needless to say, she looks more fantastic with each iteration.

You're welcome, Ero!

'Bullet proof rigging for animation', eh? Sounds like a challenge, sport. And yes, that is one of the things I'm hoping she does very well!

Folks, can I link my blog to this page? Its got nudity and sexy things on it, but PE's page is now a bit more decent... ahem...

Anyway let me know because I have some wires and specs to share with ya'lls asses!

Some replies:

EldritchCellar posted at 12:37AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4253781

If she looks anything like the renders you've just posted, out of the box or with a minimum of fussing (I understand that what a creator can do with their own creation is entirely different than what casual end users might come up with) than I'd say you have achieved a great success with PE. She's strikingly beautiful, and this from someone who is totally jaded with human/realistic figure renders. I think I've got a little crush. He he. Great work Erogenesis.

haha that's cool! I hope you can have fun with figures again. Be sure to be ready when community testing will start. cheers cellar!

Latexluv posted at 12:39AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4253788

I would love a crack at adapting some merchant resource makeups I have accumulated for V4!

yeah hope it all transfers well for you. For me it works quite ok. Its not 100% (more like 95%) but its better than fiddling endlessly with the morph brush. I just hope we can get the morphs to transfer properly!

3DFineries posted at 12:41AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4253800

I'm not a big vendor or anything like that, but you can bet I will definitely support Project E! I'm betting a few others I know will do the same. She is absolutely astounding!

Thanks so much. Big or small, as long as she's relevant for you! That's all that matters! cheers fines!

estherau posted at 12:42AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4253802

Thanks for updating us. I wonder if you know how much people are looking forwards to seeing ProjectE come to life. I'm superexcited. Love esther

Yeah I am seeing PE getting mentioned in more and more places and I'm getting a fair bit of response. I'm very curious how this will pan out! I just hope Poser won't let me down. Its been a challenge I'll say...!!!! But its working so... we'll see!

RorrKonn posted at 12:44AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4253906

We'll scream to the Gods for her success

So Hott

haha thanks man. Sorry did I forget to add a content advisory tag?

rtamesis posted at 12:45AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4253907

Erogenesis has a new update at his Deviant Art site. Needless to say, she looks more fantastic with each iteration.

cheers r!

Dale B posted at 12:45AM Wed, 10 February 2016 - #4254001

You're welcome, Ero!

'Bullet proof rigging for animation', eh? Sounds like a challenge, sport. And yes, that is one of the things I'm hoping she does very well!

ha! quite. I don't have a great deal of experience in this area but I do have some dudes and dudettes offering me help in this area. If you have experience, do let me know.

If you've offered before, forgive me, I get a lot of offers these days I can barely keep track. I've started registering potential beta-testers in my contacts as of a week ago.

"haha that's cool! I hope you can have fun with figures again."

He, he. I'm sure the figures I make for myself and share freely with others (humble as they are ;)) will be sad to hear the news that I don't have fun with them. PE's cute... She might be something of a prima donna though. Lol. You'll catch me out back getting f'd up with young Ray Harryhausen type misfits if she's interested in slumming it. :)

ah ,no ,we can't link to ,ah ,naughty stuff .Most of us have the erogenesis BlogSpot bookmarked anyways. Oh .I was suppose to read the new up dated but I got distracted by the pics. don't ya hate distractions ;) LOL ,I'd imagen your kinda low polycount teeth ,has a higher polycount then my in tier characters polycount. Just a thought but since your so good with highpolycont detailed characters.They pay a pretty penny for the detailed medical characters.

"They pay a pretty penny for the detailed medical characters."

Aint that the truth, ever seen the retail on those zygote meshes? 0 0

$1000 for a skull.

Small update. Loads of small improvements with the shoulders, legs, knees, torso, face... added dials to rotate the arms up in a correct way. Also, most excitingly, the abdomen now has 2 extra bones in it, but it looks like it has the same torso bones as V4. Two bones are 'ghost bones'. So on the outside it looks like Hip-Abdomen-Chest, but on the inside it looks like Hip-Abdomen-Spine1-Spine2-Chest. This might be useful for vendors that want to convert their V4 content to PE without messing up the polygroup distribution (and thus the morphs). It still remains to be tested by my beta team.

In any case, as you can imagine with two extra bones in the torso, one more than Genesis and Dawn, her back bends like a snake! Scaling is going to be a nightmare however, lol, but we'll figure it out...

btw here you can also see a bit of her glute handles in action as she sits on the rock. Need to do a little more work on them still.

If you wanna see more about this figure, like details about her rigging and bodyparts, with pictures n stuff, then kindly manifest your person over to my blogspot and check out the project.e page. Be sure to click on the link to the specs too!

oh and she gets red eyes if you shine a flash her face. Yes her retinas reflect!

yes I know I'm nuts... :D

Some replies:

EldritchCellar posted at 1:22AM Thu, 11 February 2016 - #4254164

"haha that's cool! I hope you can have fun with figures again."

He, he. I'm sure the figures I make for myself and share freely with others (humble as they are ;)) will be sad to hear the news that I don't have fun with them. PE's cute... She might be something of a prima donna though. Lol. You'll catch me out back getting f'd up with young Ray Harryhausen type misfits if she's interested in slumming it. :)

well I do aim to make her an all-round kinda gal ;) if you want her to hang out with her, she will, lol

RorrKonn posted at 1:27AM Thu, 11 February 2016 - #4254313

ah ,no ,we can't link to ,ah ,naughty stuff .Most of us have the erogenesis BlogSpot bookmarked anyways. Oh .I was suppose to read the new up dated but I got distracted by the pics. don't ya hate distractions ;)

yeah, dreadful! My runtime is full of them!

;D cheers man!

RorrKonn posted at 1:27AM Thu, 11 February 2016 - #4254313

LOL ,I'd imagen your kinda low polycount teeth ,has a higher polycount then my in tier characters polycount. Just a thought but since your so good with highpolycont detailed characters.They pay a pretty penny for the detailed medical characters.

Just now some dude on DA also mentioned an idea along those lines. P.E could indeed somewhat apply for medical / forensic use. I've heard of this before, that Poser also gets used for crime scene investigation and courtroom displays, right?

EldritchCellar posted at 1:33AM Thu, 11 February 2016 - #4254318

"They pay a pretty penny for the detailed medical characters."

Aint that the truth, ever seen the retail on those zygote meshes? 0 0

$1000 for a skull.

I better start making skulls!!!

Man that thing is pervertedly good looking. Lol. You must have some serious research skills to dig up that kind of Poser tech.

Absolutely gorgeous. I'm really looking forward to supporting her. Real mastery. Cheerio lululee

E you went above and beyond on this one! Cain't wait tell she's out. Thank you for this super great work.

folks! here's some news about the rig, you might wish to add your remarks / suggestions there if you feel its needed. You can also post your reaction here if you wish!

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?104193-Vendors-hoooo!-A-question&p=946144#post946144

Its about JCMs. Read carefully, this might be very relevant for you if you would like to work with her.

EldritchCellar posted at 9:46AM Mon, 15 February 2016 - #4254332

Man that thing is pervertedly good looking. Lol. You must have some serious research skills to dig up that kind of Poser tech.

hahaha. yeah well, I do have a lot of patience with certain things... O.o ... ugh...

lululee posted at 9:49AM Mon, 15 February 2016 - #4254427

Absolutely gorgeous. I'm really looking forward to supporting her. Real mastery. Cheerio lululee

thank you so much lulu!

vampchild posted at 9:49AM Mon, 15 February 2016 - #4254628

E you went above and beyond on this one! Cain't wait tell she's out. Thank you for this super great work.

hehe neither can I. I am immensely curious if this girl will help people!

thank you for your support!

If you are still looking for beta testers, I'd love to throw my hat in the ring!

I am following your posts on Deviant Art. I am on a work pc so I can't look at your blog. Great work. I too, can't wait until you release her. It'll be the first non native Poser figure I will buy.

rokket posted at 10:35PM Tue, 16 February 2016 - #4255302

If you are still looking for beta testers, I'd love to throw my hat in the ring!

I am following your posts on Deviant Art. I am on a work pc so I can't look at your blog. Great work. I too, can't wait until you release her. It'll be the first non native Poser figure I will buy.

thanks so much rokket! :) I hope she will be of use!

there will hopefully be a few rounds of testing, or which the first one will be exclusively for vendors. The later ones are for artists, hobbyists, and community members. So keep an eye out for what I do.

Cool. I'll keep an eye on things.