Quote: The figures? Well, all I can say about that is evidently, they got so sick of being told how awful Rex/Roxie were, they decided to show us the definition of BAD.

I wish there were more people on the forums who actually made stuff, or hell, even a couple of gallery images. Lol. At least then I could feel like I were being ignored by like minded peers. As it is these threads just seem to be populated with no show blabbermouths with attitudes :) Ps. Excluding LaurieA from that blanket.

EldritchCellar posted at 2:54PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249933

I wish there were more people on the forums who actually made stuff, or hell, even a couple of gallery images. Lol. At least then I could feel like I were being ignored by like minded peers. As it is these threads just seem to be populated with no show blabbermouths with attitudes :) Ps. Excluding LaurieA from that blanket.

Sorry, I don't put my stuff on Renderosity because doing so evidently means you give them carte blanch to use YOUR work in advertising, etc. without permission or attribution.

I don't agree to that.

CrystalGames posted at 8:59PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249934

EldritchCellar posted at 2:54PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249933

I wish there were more people on the forums who actually made stuff, or hell, even a couple of gallery images. Lol. At least then I could feel like I were being ignored by like minded peers. As it is these threads just seem to be populated with no show blabbermouths with attitudes :) Ps. Excluding LaurieA from that blanket.

Sorry, I don't put my stuff on Renderosity because doing so evidently means you give them carte blanch to use YOUR work in advertising, etc. without permission or attribution.

I don't agree to that.

There's not much left, if you don't want it. Deviantart.com has advertisments too and Daz makes it possible to share your work on social medias. RDNA's gallery seems safe, but not much frequented. The other two options mustn't mentioned here.

Where is your work. I always check out peoples work, it gives me a sense of that person. Here... basically nada from the people on the forums these days. There is the option for not 'include/use in advertising' checkbox crystal.

For instance, chaecuna... you would think with such a grandios attitude he is one hell of an artist. I've searched high and low. Not a scrap. This is an artist's forum, regardless of the 'Poser' double entendre. It's one thing to be a 'troll' with art or contributions to the greater good or whatever... entirely something else when all you have is wind or in this case... gas.

EldritchCellar posted at 3:32PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249938

Where is your work. I always check out peoples work, it gives me a sense of that person. Here... basically nada from the people on the forums these days. There is the option for not 'include/use in advertising' checkbox crystal.

If I wanted to share my work with anyone here, I would put up a link. I don't wish to do so.

I can't afford to have my name connected to places that sell pubic hair and whorehouses.

CrystalGames posted at 3:39PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249948

EldritchCellar posted at 3:32PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249938

Where is your work. I always check out peoples work, it gives me a sense of that person. Here... basically nada from the people on the forums these days. There is the option for not 'include/use in advertising' checkbox crystal.

If I wanted to share my work with anyone here, I would put up a link. I don't wish to do so.

I can't afford to have my name connected to places that sell pubic hair and whorehouses.

Actually you did post your images you made with easyskin 3.0 and Dawn from the RDNA thread, glitter, but I guess you forgot that's not the username you're using here anymore so you deleted it. Not sure why you're hiding under a different name now, but I did flag the post up to the mods to make sure you're supposed to be here.

EldritchCellar posted at 8:40PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249938

Where is your work. I always check out peoples work, it gives me a sense of that person. Here... basically nada from the people on the forums these days. There is the option for not 'include/use in advertising' checkbox crystal.

For what it is worth, my renders can be found at RDNA, either in the Dawn,Poser 2014 or the Vue gallery. Most of the others can be found at Hivewire3D in the 'Show us your Dawn renders' thread. I am not suggesting that they push any boundaries but if you want to get a sense of the person.

Until recently I did have a gallery here but I deleted all of the 200+ images mainly because all of the images were overwhelmed by advertising. Also, the main reason I had a gallery in the first place was to show how I had used products purchased here, as I no longer shop here that purpose is also dead. There are no where near 200 images in the other locations but it does show that I do use Poser on a regular basis.

This is a recent one the idea behind it was me trying to portray the saying "you could cut the atmosphere with a Knife'

Male_M3dia posted at 3:53PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249949

CrystalGames posted at 3:39PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249948

EldritchCellar posted at 3:32PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249938

Where is your work. I always check out peoples work, it gives me a sense of that person. Here... basically nada from the people on the forums these days. There is the option for not 'include/use in advertising' checkbox crystal.

If I wanted to share my work with anyone here, I would put up a link. I don't wish to do so.

I can't afford to have my name connected to places that sell pubic hair and whorehouses.

Actually you did post your images you made with easyskin 3.0 and Dawn from the RDNA thread, glitter, but I guess you forgot that's not the username you're using here anymore so you deleted it. Not sure why you're hiding under a different name now, but I did flag the post up to the mods to make sure you're supposed to be here.

LOL, you're just obsessed with conspiracies, aren't you?

Oh. Crystal is glitterati. I see. Nevermind, I've seen your work. I can at least now approach any interactions from that footing... respect in that regard.

CrystalGames posted at 3:58PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249952

Male_M3dia posted at 3:53PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249949

CrystalGames posted at 3:39PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249948

EldritchCellar posted at 3:32PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249938

Where is your work. I always check out peoples work, it gives me a sense of that person. Here... basically nada from the people on the forums these days. There is the option for not 'include/use in advertising' checkbox crystal.

If I wanted to share my work with anyone here, I would put up a link. I don't wish to do so.

I can't afford to have my name connected to places that sell pubic hair and whorehouses.

Actually you did post your images you made with easyskin 3.0 and Dawn from the RDNA thread, glitter, but I guess you forgot that's not the username you're using here anymore so you deleted it. Not sure why you're hiding under a different name now, but I did flag the post up to the mods to make sure you're supposed to be here.

LOL, you're just obsessed with conspiracies, aren't you?

No, I simply saw you post those same images and you were singing the praise of the version of poser you won, I clicked the flag button when I saw it and made the mods aware of who you are with the link on RDNA, and by that time I submitted the report, you deleted the post. Besides, you end up betraying yourself with the same type of responses. If you going to be someone else, can't do it in screen name only.

Years ago Rendo gave the option to change the user name, but they charged you for that. So no thx. :P

Wow, it worked. Somebody actually talked to me. Lol. Ok... back to working on my next freebie. Plug; erc/geometry switching conformer hands for Missus. Coming soon to my Sharecg gallery! ;)

I don't have my freebies here anymore, and of the Poser freebies that disappeared from ShareCG, some of the older ones will be returning, reworked and with updated shaders as well as some new ones. Maybe someday I'll bring my freebies back here, but it'll be a wait and see.

I guess maybe the original theme of the thread has run its course and no there were no casualties ;). Hopefully. LOL

Nah, I like Sharecg for my stuff Laurie. Wider range of contributors I think. More diversity? I do like rendos art image galleries though... I have a gallery as cartilage at RDNA but it just feels really cliqueish over at their forum. Anyway, yeah this thread ran its productive course a while back. Now it's just the typical regurgitations.

Hornet, should have made dawn(?) Sitting across from V4. Little subversive context.

Yea, I guess it has run it's course although we never were going to come to any agreed conclusion to whether Poser was dying or not. Ironic really that we are spending time answering a question that can't really be answered while we have to accept we are all dying, it not a question of if but when and how so I guess that is the closet you are going to get in relation to Poser's future.

While it didn't answer the question I found it interesting to see people views, particularly on those who have upgraded to Poser 11 at least a basis for their viewpoint.

Well, I'm a vendor as well and my Poser creations are doing well so...

adosity posted at 6:34PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249929

SuperFly is a nice engine, but it's not ready yet. To make things more complicated, the documentation supplied with Poser 11 is very sparse and not informative for people wanting to learn. I assume it works for people already up to speed with Cycles and just looking for Poser-specific implementations. Learning from examples becomes much harder when Poser 11 ships with only the smallest number of SuperFly materials. Blender/Cycles tutorials might seem the obvious alternative, but since SuperFly does not have all the nodes Blender does you inevitably hit a roadblock somewhere. The experts might argue these can be avoided, but the manual sure doesn't tell the uninitiated how.

I'm not sure if it was announced here or not, but there is a webinar coming up on Thursday all about using Superfly.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?103342-WEBINAR-How-to-Get-the-Best-Results-from-Poser%92s-SuperFly-Render-Engine

"Well, I'm a vendor as well and my Poser creations are doing well so..."

I know. Although I don't have any of your things. I don't buy stuff anymore. Regardless of your sales I can't really comment on your modeling chops or your actual knowledge of Poser's internal workings other than observation of some of the things you've said here on the forum. Being a vendor and attaching 3d to the end of your moniker doesn't really indicate much to me, no offense. Just as being a Poser Ambassador doesn't really carry any artistic clout in my book, in general I'm pretty underwhelmed by those things.

Unfortunately my Poser artistic heroes are personna non grata on Poser forums (well, sometimes PhilC or Netherworks or JoeQuick or Stonemason will post something, very rarely. Teyon seems to have had enough too... Bagginsbill still holds court occassionally. No more Anton, no more LesBentley, Englishbob still sarcastically complains once in awhile lol. PoserClub Japan is kaput so no more that perspective either. There's still hidden away blogs. MortemVetus is cool, nice enough to friend me over at DNA, Truely flattered). Mostly it's genesis/v4 stuff anymore...Boring.

This is going to be totally off topic, or perhaps not, but...

I remember when I first started out with 3d and Poser (it came already installed on a gift computer, powermac g3, my first ever computer. It was Poser 3). I was studying toward my Scupture BFA at the time. I think the first figures I fell in love with were MayaDoll and Sixus1's H.E.R.

I caught the modeling bug a couple of years later. Anyway, I said to myself. "Wow, wouldn't it be really awesome (in my eyes, still to this day) if I could make something like H.E.R.? Sixus is a really cool artist (mad respect)."

It's a few years later now, I continue to work at this and learn the fundamentals. Y'know, all that Poser 4 workflow garbage and modeling, morphing, file manipulation basics that's so useless to other mighty poser artists that blather on about such things here. They just buy that stuff I guess.

I think I'll muck around in the freebie arena for awhile, I just started uploading stuff and images a few months back. Who knows I might just disappear tomorrow, happens all the time. But, here's the thing... In a 3 months time I've won 2 out of three render/art contest I've entered in. One of my first ever freebies is higher rated than Sixus1's H.E.R. figure at sharecg (does little dance, sheds little tear, bows before Sixus and the pantheon of Poser gods). I'd say that if I disappeared tomorrow, I could at least have that miniscule horn to toot. There's still a long ways to go... being a vendor? Meh. That can wait, if at all. I just want to make more stuff. ;) End of horn tooting rant (based on provable facts, no pie in the sky wishful sayso)... :)

Where's my cookie?

Ambassadors are usually people who can answer questions about the latest version of Poser because they're familiar with the more advanced workings. A number of the people you mentioned are also ambassadors. And if people spent more time asking questions about how this or that works, instead of arguing about whose dollie is better than everyone else's then maybe the forums would be more productive again.

And yes, one day Poser will die. So will DS and everyone in this thread. Eventually the earth is going to be swallowed by the sun and at some point the Milky Way is going to collide with Andromeda and most everything in both of them will die.

Ah ambient. You were always a total snob to me anyway, high and mighty. You still are high and mighty. Finish your figures. (Not to say I don't respect your talent. Judging by your few images).

But. Now I'm just being a self absorbed creep... I'll scatter.

I don't remember ever deliberately being a snob to you Eldritch and I'm far from "high and mighty". I just get sick of seeing the same dead horses being beaten over and over relentlessly and then people wonder why no one participates in these forums anymore, aside from the same dozen or so people. And my comments were not directed specifically at you other than the first line.

Yeah ambient, my skin is too thin and I have difficulty holding my opinions back. I mean no malice. Peace.

EldritchCellar posted at 1:01AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4249970

Hornet, should have made dawn(?) Sitting across from V4. Little subversive context.

Brilliant idea, you're right that would have worked on more than one level.

I often use Dawn and V4 together in my renders, strange thing is they seem to get on rather well.

If only more people asked questions and there were informative replies. Problem might be that whatever the question it all seems to revert to the same well worn path that the threads here have taken for the past four to five years.

When the question is "Is Poser dying?" it is really difficult to be informative, particularly if you try and stay on topic. Still this has been informative at least regards Poser 11 and the information here along with the information at RDNA help me get a better picture of what Poser 11 is like. Mind you over at RDNA they are talking about semi transparent images saved when Superfly is involved and trying to help each other and find a work around while trying to get SM to fix it.

From my perspective a lot of the opinions about Poser posted here are amusing. Is Poser dying? Apparently not because a lot of people are reading the thread(s) here. Sure the read count could be fudged, and it can, but I doubt that every thread is that far off on the read count.

As far as the images being posted to the gallery here, I don't post images here anymore and removed just about everything of mine from the site. That was my choice, and it does not really matter why I did, I just did. Lots of people have stopped posting here over the years, both in the forums and the galleries. Years ago I had notifications set up, and sometimes would comment on hundreds of images a week. I rarely get any notifications of gallery posts anymore because many of those people have moved on. No idea if they went to another 3d app, site, or just gave it up entirely. It didn't help matters much when Rendo broke a lot of the notifications either, but that is another issue that does not appear to have any priority at all anymore.

I also wonder about people saying that Superfly is not ready. Sure it is not exactly the same as Cycles in Blender, but for the most part it works as intended. Yeah, it would be great if it was just like Cycles, but 3Delight in Studio is a joke compared to full blown 3Delight, but you rarely hear much about that do you..

When FireFly came out, you didn't see a lot of killer renders from it either. Heck, you still don't. So, if the render sucks, it must be the engines fault, right???? I know, the engine is missing a fix my material settings button. (Actually that would be a cool option, someone that clams to know everything about it should write one, asap)

Poser is not dying off from my perspective, it just has people coming and going just like any other hobby. Yes there are a lot of holdouts that are still here and posting, but not a lot of them by any means.

People do a lot of complaining about everything around here. Some of them do what they can to make things better, some of them don't, and do nothing more than undermine everything they can possible shovel crap onto.. After a while those that don't, royally piss of the ones that do. It happens a lot, people just don't always know about it.

On the figure front: I have worked on a lot of figures and it never fails, it gets shelved in favor of the one many people are screaming to replace. Now they even get compared to ones that wont even work in Poser at all. Maybe we should compare Genesis 3 to a Physics rigged Figure in Houdini or Maya for a while. Suddenly Genesis would suck in the bending department, memory overhead, etc. I don't know anyone using Houdini or Maya that is upset that neither software publisher will touch Genesis with a 10 foot pole. But, But, someone said you can import Genesis 3 into any high end app? Sure you can, but guess what, you loose more of the Genesis functionality than most realize it even has to begin with. So what is the point in even doing that? It's no different than trying to get it in Poser. At least Genesis 1 and 2 could use DSON and sort of work, yet people just bitched about having that functionality. Can't imagine why they just gave up on that.... All people basically did was bitch about it, so why even go there again?

What many people don't know, is that the Genesis 3 rigging is 15 year old technology. It gets pushed by many as the best thing since sliced bread. I don't know about you, but I don't want a sandwich made on 15 year old bread.... Yeah, Genesis is a cool idea, and all of us have seen autofit, etc. But it wont work in Poser, get over it already. If I want to use Genesis, guess what, Studio is still free and I have and use it once in a while. Low and behold, Genesis works good in Studio. Who would have thought ??? Don't get me wrong, Dual Quad rigging has some advantages, but it also has some nasty disadvantages as well. It has so many that they came up with better ways of rigging about, 10 years ago. Genesis (the system) does a good job of getting around that, until you export it....

99% of what is wrong with the community, is the community itself. And if you look at how many users there are at sites like this, very few of them even bother to post in the forums. It's not hard to see why either. Many people bitch about getting what they asked for then wonder why they stop getting much of anything, even from the people that give it away. Poser isn't dying, the number of people that will put up with the bitching and complaining just don't appear on the radar.

/end wall of text...........................................

I don't come here very often now but this subject is interesting. I've used Poser since version4 and updated to the various new versions.

Looking back at the very very early renders both here and other places, I see very little difference in the outcomes. Very easy to tell a Poser figure/picture both then and now. The figures still have the same look...mostly staring/smiling store dummies. The skin/body textures still look like Poser 4 renders. The expressions and morphs even still look awkward, like stuff from decades ago.

Maybe Poser should "die" and be resurrected again but this time with less plastic and more realism.

But for me, at the moment with this latest version,everything that matters is the same , worse luck.

shvrdavid posted at 11:27PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4250040

But, But, someone said you can import Genesis 3 into any high end app? Sure you can, but guess what,

Not without the $90 alembic plug-in. Otherwise it exports to the same formats that any Poser rig exports to. And Poser Pro 11 includes alembic export.

shvrdavid posted at 4:32PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250040

From my perspective a lot of the opinions about Poser posted here are amusing. Is Poser dying? Apparently not because a lot of people are reading the thread(s) here. Sure the read count could be fudged, and it can, but I doubt that every thread is that far off on the read count.

The thread read count is actually quite low here compared to other forums I visit, so it's not much of a yardstick for anything tbh.

I also wonder about people saying that Superfly is not ready. Sure it is not exactly the same as Cycles in Blender, but for the most part it works as intended. Yeah, it would be great if it was just like Cycles, but 3Delight in Studio is a joke compared to full blown 3Delight, but you rarely hear much about that do you..

So the issue here is negativity in the community yet the only thing you can say to that Superfly wasn't ready is a negative attack on a competitors render engine... Ready or not the marketing to this day isn't really selling the engine well. Try this, go to google images and type in 'Poser Superfly Renders' and tell me you feel like you have found something awesome. Try the same with a competitor.

When FireFly came out, you didn't see a lot of killer renders from it either. Heck, you still don't. So, if the render sucks, it must be the engines fault, right????

So you're inferring its the users fault that there is a lack of strong sellable renders coming from the Superfly engine? Interesting approach.

People do a lot of complaining about everything around here. Some of them do what they can to make things better, some of them don't, and do nothing more than undermine everything they can possible shovel crap onto.. After a while those that don't, royally piss of the ones that do. It happens a lot, people just don't always know about it.

It's the same in every industry and with every product. If you sell toasters that toast a perfect slice every time you will most likely hear nothing or very little. Sell a faulty batch that blows every ones fuses out and your phone will be ringing off the hook. It's not the responsibility of a consumer community to be supportive and understanding of a commercial offering. It's the responsibility of the provider to narrow the margin gap for complaint as much as humanly possible. And for the gap itself, that of unavoidable complaints, these issues should be dealt with in a reasonable manner without blaming the customer. Maybe if some here focused more on showing the strengths of Poser and less on trying to undermine its opposition a lot of threads wouldn't descend to the levels they do.

On the figure front: I have worked on a lot of figures and it never fails, it gets shelved in favor of the one many people are screaming to replace. Now they even get compared to ones that wont even work in Poser at all. Maybe we should compare Genesis 3 to a Physics rigged Figure in Houdini or Maya for a while. Suddenly Genesis would suck in the bending department, memory overhead, etc. I don't know anyone using Houdini or Maya that is upset that neither software publisher will touch Genesis with a 10 foot pole.

It's entirely different and again you're using a position of negatively attacking the competition to defend Poser, while complaining about the negativity in the community. The difference is the intended consumer markets are entirely different. You really think comparing Genesis 3 (Free) and Daz Studio (Free) with multi thousand dollar base software is apple to apples? Unfortunately Paul and Pauline do compete directly with Michael and Victoria 7 in this market sector and comparison is not only reasonable it's to be expected.

What many people don't know, is that the Genesis 3 rigging is 15 year old technology.

This is a push and I think you may be using some slanted facts to weight this statement. So just to confirm you're stating that all of the tech that drives Genesis 3's rigging is 15 years old? So which was the fully rigged comparable figure to Genesis 3 on every level in 2001?

It gets pushed by many as the best thing since sliced bread. I don't know about you, but I don't want a sandwich made on 15 year old bread....

Again this is just negative bashing for no clear reason. I can almost see the cynical smile on your face while typing that. And Judging by the community response there is demand for Genesis 3 in Poser. But I guess it's up to you and SM to tell them "bad luck it's not going to happen". (And let's not go down the same old DSON copyright track, It's a fact that SM has been offered numerous times by Daz3D to work collaboratively on Poser nativity for Genesis, I guess after Genesis 1 and 2 they really just stopped asking SM as SM made abundantly clear they were not interested in tying poser too Daz3D.)

Yeah, Genesis is a cool idea, and all of us have seen autofit, etc. But it won't work in Poser, get over it already.

Really that's a very strange statement to put to a consumer market. Equivalent to saying "the competition has a faster "X" component in their product. Well we don't so get over it." And expect to be sneered at if you raise the issue again. I feel this kind of elitist attitude given by many in the Posersphere is one of the major issues that is driving many users and potential customers away. "You want "X" well we don't have it, so quit your whining" has never been a good market driver in any consumer market.

Don't get me wrong, Dual Quad rigging has some advantages, but it also has some nasty disadvantages as well. It has so many that they came up with better ways of rigging about, 10 years ago. Genesis (the system) does a good job of getting around that, until you export it....

Again with the lets bash Genesis, for one that thinks that negativity is adversely affecting this community your post is full of it. Why is it that these days the only way to validate Poser is to attack Daz Studio...

Many people bitch about getting what they asked for then wonder why they stop getting much of anything, even from the people that give it away.

Again you're blaming the consumer...

99% of what is wrong with the community, is the community itself.

This type of thinking is aiding to any woes that Poser does suffer from these days. Honestly I don't see how a statement like that can do anything but damage to the community here.

Blaming a customer for the perceived issues of a consumer product, especially publicly, undermines consumer trust and confidence on every level. Whether right or wrong it's ultimately nothing but destructive on a marketing level and for a product's viability. To speak of the destructive qualities of negative contribution in a community or from a consumer market while at the same making a post full of direct attacks and nothing but blame and patronising tones for the community is hardly going to fix anything IMO. But it may just make things worse.

So many times I have been told the major difference between Daz and Poser is at a community level. Yet now it's being said that most Poser users are not community participants at all and have little interaction with the major communities. But trust us they are out there. A little confusing tbh. Seem like there is a bit of an identity crisis in effect.

Razor42 posted at 2:28AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250060

shvrdavid posted at 4:32PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250040

What many people don't know, is that the Genesis 3 rigging is 15 year old technology.

This is a push and I think you may be using some slanted facts to weight this statement. So just to confirm you're stating that all of the tech that drives Genesis 3's rigging is 15 years old? So which was the fully rigged comparable figure to Genesis 3 on every level in 2001?

I'm not sure about 15, I can't find anything that goes back that far, but it is 10-12 years old at least. You can google university articles about DQ skinning that date back to 2005. There are other more modern methods of rigging that are much more advanced.

Here's one example comparing linear, dq and implicit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHySGIqEgyk

It should also be noted that any rigging methods found in the hobbyist market are always going to be trickle-downs from the pro industry. Studios develop their own methods and keep them to themselves until they decide to release them to the greater industry. Anything that's found in poser or ds will always be dwarfed in comparison until physics becomes an actual thing for these platforms.

Well university papers are a little different than a commercial level figure available for free, it's all a little irrevelent as Genesis 3 is more than just DQ rigging anyways.

My point was that it was a cynical cheap shot.

Just out of curiousity is Poser still using Python addons, I wonder when Python was developed? ;)

What makes it into the FBX format is, sort of, a guide to what has become standard. DQ was added to FBX 2012.

As usual, everything I said was taken the wrong way. But what else is new.

I think the Genesis system is a neat idea, always have, and even said so in my again in my last post. But it is not very portable to other apps. Poser users got to use Genesis 1 and 2 in Poser, which was a freaking miracle that that ever even happened. Show me another program that it integrated into....

All the programs we have at our disposal are tools, they all work differently, and people always complain that this one doesn't do what that one does. You can't scrambled eggs in the toaster previously mentioned, and I don't see anyone telling the toaster companies to fix that. If every program did the same thing, most would go out of business. Autodesk would probably rule the roost.

As far as Dual Quad rigging goes, there are technical papers from the late 90's on it. A lot of them... Due to the type of math it uses versus linear rigging, there was a lot of development around it at the same time. There are even game engines from the same era that did a lot of experimenting with it because it saves GPU cycles, which was sorely needed due to the speed of the gpus at the time. Most peoples computers did not have the hardware that would run it, so it was more of a high end novelty than anything else. But it worked.

How many of you had Number 9 video cards with enough onboard dedicated 3D video memory to even run it? Simple answer is that not too many systems did. Number 9 video cards cost as much as the rest of the system did, and then you had to buy memory to put on it to boot. They used 4 banks of memory, each bank dedicated to specific things. The Beatles quotes when the video card booted were a cool novelty as well, if any of you remember that.

Like I said, it is amusing...

;)

Toaster that makes Eggs

shvrdavid posted at 8:20AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250095

As usual, everything I said was taken the wrong way. But what else is new.

I think the Genesis system is a neat idea, always have, and even said so in my again in my last post. But it is not very portable to other apps. Poser users got to use Genesis 1 and 2 in Poser, which was a freaking miracle that that ever even happened. Show me another program that it integrated into....

Don't think it needs to be integrated now that it has the industry standard rigging:

http://toyen-art.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Using-Daz-figures-for-animation-in-Maya-585078140

Facial rig even works in Maya. There's a thread on Daz with people working with animating with genesis 3 using the maya IK. And that's really the point of switching over to DQ. Why try to jam rigging into a lone program when you can now get it into multiple applications?

wolf359 posted at 9:56AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4249916

"Because , just like this thread, Any attempt at a conversation about poser in the POSER forum becomes a force conversation about DAZ.”

I disagree, Any thread about poser that is not directly related to Figures usually run its course with no Drama.

But it seems few users here are very excited by how mesh lights work in “superfly” or how to make a cool bronze shader for “superfly” Nor do forum members seem particularly compelled to discuss the utilitarian advantages of the new CAD style Scene measurement tools in P11

Poser is about posing and rendering mostly female figures and the prevailing Opinion is that the native poser ones are less than stellar. And the DAZ ones are simply ..BETTER. To say nothing of cynical afterthought Male offerings like “Paul”..sorry, but thats is the reality of it

Get emotional, and combative and attack & troll The DAZ merchs all you want.. No matter.

Until SMITH MICRO alters this paradigm in some significant way with their own POSER NATIVE female figure and content technology, built to some top down UNIFORM STANDARD that leverages the LATEST VERSION of poser, the forum threads will inevitably follow this same tedious course.

Ahh yes, Poser is about posing and rendering! At least, that what I hear.

There's hardly anything else available that isn't for the DAZ Gen 4 through Genesis figures. As I've posted before, I've been noticing the shift away from V4 to Genesis. It seems SM either needs to step up their efforts on female and male figures, or relent to DAZ being the king for hobbyist/artist figures and work toward native support for Genesis figures in Poser. At least from threads I have read, DAZ has offered to help SM get Genesis into Poser, but SM didn't want to.

**"Don't think it needs to be integrated now that it has the industry standard rigging:

http://toyen-art.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Using-Daz-figures-for-animation-in-Maya-585078140

Facial rig even works in Maya. There's a thread on Daz with people working with animating with genesis 3 using the maya IK. And that's really the point of switching over to DQ. Why try to jam rigging into a lone program when you can now get it into multiple applications?"**

I think it interesting to note that most people outside of the DAZ /poser sphere only seem to have an interest in transferring these figures into thier respective application for the purposes of animation. ..not internet gallery stills& portrait renders.

In this respect: there are many ways to light Europe.

I simply cannot grasp why many seem to think that the only acceptable solution for a Genesis figure in another program is some magical transferrence of RIGGING over to another app with the Exact funtionality of its native program.

..There are many ways to light Europe.

Take MDD, ( Thanks DAZ!!)

I have a seven year old version of Maxon Cinema4D(R11.5)

yet I am taking the Genesis Models(1,2& 3) and animating them using a variety of methods,(Iclone,Animate2,&Graphmate,puppeteer,mimic, MCJ copy animation etc.) all in DAZ studio on a windows 7 PC . Sittin over in my vestgial C4D, on the Mac, is a perfectly exported/textured copy of the same geneis actor awaiting its point level motion data to be export from DAZ studio after its been checked( in DS) by a quick open GL previsualization render

Using a seven year old obj handler called "Riptide pro" I can apply that single compiled MDD motion data file respectively to G1,2 or G3 in C4D with any frame offset may choose. I can switch between various MDD files for each exported figure on the fly.

I dont need genesis rigging Magically transferred to C4D. all of this Nerdy Mcnerd tech debate about how new or old the G3 riggin tech is means NOTHING to those who are willing explore multiple solution to Create our animation renders.

I dont have this irrational fear of going back into DAZ studio after I have gotten my actor into my rendering application.

I can pop over to DAZ studio and move a slider to make the figure more muscular or fatter/slimmer or re-animate him entirely and simply export the new MDD file and overwrite the old one the server and watch the actor update live before my eyes with the new MDD Data.

I find it hard to beleive that users of other pro level apps are completly dependant on complete rigging tranfers for animated actors that is why Aalembic/MDD/PLA was developed in the first place.

There are many ways to light Europe.

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

" but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again"

Just my personal observation but people make this proclaimation with this tone/implication that Daz somehow had ,at the very least, a Moral obligation to continue making poser compatible content....well they did not have any such obligation...ever.

And no.. moving on to improved figure tech is NOT a personal conpiracy to destroy poser ..its just business interests like any other commercial entity.

DreaminGirl posted at 8:49AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Funny, I recall him saying it was up to Daz 3D to push Dual Quaternion Skinning through Poser's slow and incomplete Python API.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

DreaminGirl posted at 10:47AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

I think what most Poser users fear is that people ARE moving on...to DS. What's needed is an intelligent discussion to avoid that happening, but so far I haven't seen one. SM doesn't wanna discuss it or find someone that knows what they're doing in the figure making and rigging departments and the rest of the Poser community that has no interest in DS is just telling the rest of us to "just get over it already". So where does that leave Poser users that want something more but aren't getting it from Poser? You do the math...

I for one, would like to have Poser around for a long time. There's a lot about it to love. But all that love is fading fast in the face of the competition. And unfortunately, DS is the competition. Most companies worth their salt try and BEAT the competition, not placate their customers with tiny tidbits of mediocre upgrades and expect them to remain loyal. I said months ago that while I loved Poser, loyalty means NOTHING when I am paying for software. If anything, the makers of Poser owe US, not the other way around, as we give them our hard earned money. I was dumped on for it in this forum by not everyone, but most...however, this doesn't change how I feel in the least.

Laurie

DreaminGirl posted at 11:07AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Here's one instance, but recall a more detailed discussion somewhere... (EDIT:crosspost with Bruce)

_ "We don't control the DSON plugin, that's DAZ's property. All they have to do is update the plugin to support Genesis 3/Vicky 7. I'd love for all of you to have the power in poser to work with whatever figure you want to use." [Why don't Italics work anymore??] _

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

Considering the latest version of the DSON Importer doesn't work properly on Genesis 2, and hasn't been updated in nearly a year, (I use the previous Beta) I'm not expecting anything to happen soon.

It's simply a business decision on both companies' parts. Use the tool that does the job for you.

And Smile!

bhoins posted at 5:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250125

DreaminGirl posted at 8:49AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Funny, I recall him saying it was up to Daz 3D to push Dual Quaternion Skinning through Poser's slow and incomplete Python API.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

That's not the quote I was referring to.

@Laurie I agree, I would like to see Poser live on for a long time, but I don't think Genesis is the answer. Besides, in a year or so, G3 will be replaced by something new anyway. 'Keeping up with the Joneses' seems to be what is expected, but not everyone agrees to that.

DreaminGirl posted at 11:23AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250129

bhoins posted at 5:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250125

DreaminGirl posted at 8:49AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Funny, I recall him saying it was up to Daz 3D to push Dual Quaternion Skinning through Poser's slow and incomplete Python API.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

That's not the quote I was referring to.

@Laurie I agree, I would like to see Poser live on for a long time, but I don't think Genesis is the answer. Besides, in a year or so, G3 will be replaced by something new anyway. 'Keeping up with the Joneses' seems to be what is expected, but not everyone agrees to that.

I think it's called innovating. That's really what's happening. You innovate or you die. Many companies in the past have bit the dust thinking they don't have to do anything to keep customers' business. Those companies aren't the first and definitely won't be the last.

WandW posted at 11:25AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250128

DreaminGirl posted at 11:07AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Here's one instance, but recall a more detailed discussion somewhere... (EDIT:crosspost with Bruce)

_ "We don't control the DSON plugin, that's DAZ's property. All they have to do is update the plugin to support Genesis 3/Vicky 7. I'd love for all of you to have the power in poser to work with whatever figure you want to use." [Why don't Italics work anymore??] _

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

Considering the latest version of the DSON Importer doesn't work properly on Genesis 2, and hasn't been updated in nearly a year, (I use the previous Beta) I'm not expecting anything to happen soon.

One again, SM sidestepped the issue bringing in a false argument about the plugin when the full DSON spec is posted for them online to import like reading any other file format. Let not trot this false argument out because there's a major different between the "DSON Importer for Poser" and the "DSON specification". It's already been noted that DAZ has taken the importer as far as it can go because of the performance issues with python, that's why DAZ mentioned reading the specification natively, not trying to use some tool to hack the importer which would be a DCMA violation. It seems really uninformed that after all these years, SM doesn't know the difference. But I think we're getting away from the subject revolving everything around DAZ. The discussion really should be about what Poser should be doing to address customers' concerns.