I do not understand the whole dump V4 and get genesis thing,V4 does everything I need, all I see genesis doing is reducing my bank account and adding more clothes etc and doing renders that I could have done with V4. I have noticed of late that the renderosity market place is now geared towards Genesis, this does sadden me, but that's commercialism. I may one day get Genesis but for now V4 does exactly what I want, along with A3.

ProjectE looks like being the future of Poser figures right now. Let's see, what SM unveils as their next figure release. V4? yes, dump her. You can make that old Lady pretty, but you cannot pose her without breaking her. I don't want to spent houres of postwork to make a pose look natural. Give that old Lady a rest. salute ;)

-Timberwolf- posted at 7:45AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236127

ProjectE looks like being the future of Poser figures right now. Let's see, what SM unveils as their next figure release. V4? yes, dump her. You can make that old Lady pretty, but you cannot pose her without breaking her. I don't want to spent houres of postwork to make a pose look natural. Give that old Lady a rest. salute ;)

If you missed the postings right now Project E is actually a subdivided V4 with JCMs... and that is straight from the creator himself from a thread in this forum. It would need a new mesh to start from or a cr2 that references V4 and injects new rigging. I'm not sure how everyone keeps missing that detail. It can't be sold as is, and whatever store that sells it better check the mesh before they release it or it will be the shortest sale ever before the lawyers show up. It would end up having the same impact as RDNA's Eva did when it got released and pulled when it was found out it nicked some of Vickie's mesh as well.

"Project E is actually a subdivided V4 with JCMs" Yes, maybe I missed that part. That could mean, that PE would never be published, because of EULA issues, which would be a big, big bummer. I was really looking foreward to release. I didn't say V4's mesh is bad either. I just think, that posing her with that old Poser4 rigging techologie doesn't give satisfieing results. V4WM is an improvement for sure, but not enough. Ero added, what was missing, to really make her usefull - As far as I can tell from the pictures. I really hope ProjectE will see the light of day. I am going to be quick to get her, just in case DAZ lawyers become active ;)

@Male_M3dia Can you show me the post that says that "Project E is a subdivided V4"?

I was under the impression that it is a new mesh, thats what it says on the creators homepage.

-Timberwolf- posted at 9:37AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236137

"Project E is actually a subdivided V4 with JCMs" Yes, maybe I missed that part. That could mean, that PE would never be published, because of EULA issues, which would be a big, big bummer. I was really looking foreward to release. I didn't say V4's mesh is bad either. I just think, that posing her with that old Poser4 rigging techologie doesn't give satisfieing results. V4WM is an improvement for sure, but not enough. Ero added, what was missing, to really make her usefull - As far as I can tell from the pictures. I really hope ProjectE will see the light of day. I am going to be quick to get her, just in case DAZ lawyers become active ;)

No, it isn't a subD V4. It is a new mesh. Go visit Ero's blog and you can see the development from the beginning.

Erogenesis Lali's Bits was customized V4 .Project E is Erogenesis mesh

ssgbryan posted at 1:18PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236171

-Timberwolf- posted at 9:37AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236137

"Project E is actually a subdivided V4 with JCMs" Yes, maybe I missed that part. That could mean, that PE would never be published, because of EULA issues, which would be a big, big bummer. I was really looking foreward to release. I didn't say V4's mesh is bad either. I just think, that posing her with that old Poser4 rigging techologie doesn't give satisfieing results. V4WM is an improvement for sure, but not enough. Ero added, what was missing, to really make her usefull - As far as I can tell from the pictures. I really hope ProjectE will see the light of day. I am going to be quick to get her, just in case DAZ lawyers become active ;)

No, it isn't a subD V4. It is a new mesh. Go visit Ero's blog and you can see the development from the beginning.

No it isn't a new mesh, check the forum here where he said as much and when someone mentioned that DAZ would have a problem with it, he basically said "good luck finding him in africa" which is troubling to say the least for a vendor to say. The v4 clothes fit and the textures work well with it because it is V4. Everyone that knows meshes knows that it's V4, so that blog is inaccurate at best. Given that admission, any store that takes it better check the product with a fine tooth comb before it hits the store to make sure that it is indeed a new mesh.

The posting you refer to was about the rigging and NOT about the mesh.

-Timberwolf- posted at 2:07PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236127

ProjectE looks like being the future of Poser figures right now. Let's see, what SM unveils as their next figure release. V4? yes, dump her. You can make that old Lady pretty, but you cannot pose her without breaking her. I don't want to spent houres of postwork to make a pose look natural. Give that old Lady a rest. salute ;)

Good grief, what sort of poses are you using if you've got to post work her every time you use her? O.O I don't even have that much trouble with the Mil Teens!

Even if Project E is the 'future' -- the likelihood of me using it is very slim (Unless she's pretty out of the box and doesn't look like Victoria). I don't need to keep buying the same darn things over and over again.

Edit: Oh! Project E is pretty! I'd be glad to add her into the virtual box of dolls. But as for replacing? I use Sp3 more than anything. :D

Project E n V4 does not have the same topology

@wolf359 and @RonnKorr:

Just a feasibility study: G2F, with Bree textures (the ones in the starter pack) with ultra-preliminary Cycles shaders. The first step (i.e. kissing bye bye to FireFly/3delight/Iray) seems easier that what I had imagined.

I haven't played with Blenders new Cycles. They look fun thou. :)

There might be some kind of a BlenderPoserDAZFussion something like Blenders GoB to speed up the exports.

You might want to play with Blenders dynamic hair n cloths.

RorrKonn

Male_M3dia posted at 6:39PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236133

If you missed the postings right now Project E is actually a subdivided V4 with JCMs... and that is straight from the creator himself from a thread in this forum.

nein! nein! nein!

lol

no its an entirely new mesh. Must be a miscomm. She momentarily has the same topology as V4 (shape, not the same mesh). The test model does have the V4 head temporarily attached but that was from back in 2014 when I needed to make sure my characters would stay in tact. Now things are different and I can implement my own head mesh, which is more detailed.

... ok now to reply to the other comments.

jonnybode posted at 6:42PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236170

I was under the impression that it is a new mesh, thats what it says on the creators homepage.

yep new mesh

RorrKonn posted at 6:43PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236181

Erogenesis Lali's Bits was customized V4 .Project E is Erogenesis mesh

yep!

Goldenthrush posted at 6:44PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236215

Even if Project E is the 'future' -- the likelihood of me using it is very slim (Unless she's pretty out of the box and doesn't look like Victoria). I don't need to keep buying the same darn things over and over again.

Edit: Oh! Project E is pretty! I'd be glad to add her into the virtual box of dolls. But as for replacing? I use Sp3 more than anything. :D

Whatever works. The base mesh of PE is purely flat and functional, that's why I never show it. It has no shape whatsoever, the defining shapes come out of the FBMs, not the base figure. I do hope to release the base package (different from base mesh) for free, so that you can see the potential. It is however, very tailored to my preferences, and I'm a weird and complicated artist lol!

RorrKonn posted at 6:46PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236244

Project E n V4 does not have the same topology

It does for now, but upon release it won't, or DAZ will kill me!

I think where having miscommunications.

the mesh is the line you see in wireframe. topology flow is how the lines flow.

V3,4,5,6,7 all have a mesh but they all have different topology. but they can all have the same shape.

so shape ,topology ,mesh are 3 different things.

what I can see of your wire frame of projectE on your blog does not have the same topology as V4.

but

projectE can not have any part of V4 mesh ,topology ,names ,uvmaps ,rigs. etc etc.in it or DAZ will shut you down.

If you made projectE from a cube. then it's your character and you have the right to say what happens to the character.

but

If projectE is just a very customized V4. then it's still a DAZ character and DAZ has the right to say what happens to the character and I doubt they will let you sell it. Maybe with some kind of partnership.

RorrKonn posted at 7:39PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236695

Maybe with some kind of partnership.

When Hell will experience next glaciation. If there is even a single vertex/edge/face/UV coordinate which can be traced back to V4, Project E is dead since it will take only a letter from DAZ lawyer threatening legal action to have any e-shop in the US/Europe/Japan to drop it and third party products for it, immediately.

I don't know if projectE is erogenesis cube or not.

and at

At https://www.cgtrader.com/xiaoxunyue2014

Months a go I pointed out that xiaoxunyue2014 took a DAZ character and SubDed the mesh to polycount 200.000+ They removed the wireframe .jpgs but not the character.

So I can only guess that xiaoxunyue2014 n DAZ have some kind of deal.

Any other time I pointed out a DAZ mesh being sold by a third party ,it has been promptly removed.

CGTrader is in Lithuania; is this enough for an explanation?

RorrKonn posted at 8:39AM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236695

If you made projectE from a cube. then it's your character and you have the right to say what happens to the character.

but

If projectE is just a very customized V4. then it's still a DAZ character and DAZ has the right to say what happens to the character and I doubt they will let you sell it. Maybe with some kind of partnership.

PE was made from a plane even haha.

Regarding DAZ, the only thing I could get into trouble for is using V4's joint centers and using V4's UV maps in the 'V4 version'. I haven't had time to sort this out but I will when I resume the development. Chances are DAZ will just say no and then it will be very easy to just change the joint centers around a bit. With Poser's fitting tech (hopefully improved) it should be easy to retrofit V4 stuff to her again. And the V4 maps, well, that would just be a shame for all those users that have invested all that money in V4 items.

To be honest these days I think its time to depart from DAZ's way of doing things because those guys are enjoying too much control over the 3D figure art scene. Monopoly is never good.

Anyway, let's first see what P11 has in store for us!

chaecuna posted at 3:04AM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236792

CGTrader is in Lithuania; is this enough for an explanation?

Crystal Clear

erogenesis I very very really strongly advise not to use any DAZ any thing in projectE. Cause if there's a DAZ anything in it ,that makes projectE DAZ Property and leaves you with nothing.

Maybe down the road PhilC could make a texture converter or something.

Aeon Soul is leaving RDNA and going to DAZ. They have never worked together before.Aeon Soul has always been to sexy .DAZ has changed a lot n a lot more then there sexy policies. I think DAZ went to public stock market or got a new boss or something .

DAZ might have a monopoly but only cause there the only ones playing the game. V5 was the first mesh out of DAZ I would have even used.I think V7 is the first actual 100% quad mesh.99% of all content sold is not even = to 2015 game meshes.There Empier depends a lot on third partys.DAZ Poser is a very small part of the CGI Realms. Empiers rise n fall .In my life time I saw truespace,softimage fall & the great n mighty USSR Fall.They where a hell of a lot bigger then DAZ could even dream.

Dear erogenesis, you are fatally underestimating the danger posed by Project E V4 roots. What you will release will be put under close examination by DAZ technicians and lawyers. If anything, even the smallest thing, can be shown related to DAZ IP, they will fall on you and on anybody dealing with Project E like a mountain of bricks. Some DMCA take down notices and no e-shop and no third party will touch Project E, even with a 10 meter long pole.

If this is just a hobby of yours, no problem, but if you plan any commercial effort, be very careful. Between a black mamba and a lawyer, I would, without hesitation, choose the black mamba.

You may also want to look at what a derivative work is.

She is looking rather nice though :)

I honestly don't care if ProjectE can or can not use V4's textures as long as I can convert the clothing, I'd be a happy camper. ProjectE is definitely a figure I would "jump ship" for.... I love V4 so I am sure I will still find uses for her if and when I jump ship.

With that said, Euro, I shall quote another "Shut up & take my money!" :heart_tip:

Zev0 posted at 10:22PM Sun, 24 January 2016 - #4234508

Poser isn't dead. You cannot kill an app. However, lack of AAA content support can eventually seal it's fate in terms of user growth and future development for it. Also at the time Daz made Dson, Poser was part of its plans. However that is no longer the case as Genesis 3 is no longer Poser compatible. So yeah, SM needs to stand on their own two feet now. The company that kept them going with content support is on a different path, and by the looks of it, so are all the mainstream stores. So, there is a difference in opinion and fact adh3d. Fact is, Poser support is on the decrease. The question is, what can SM do to change that?

Daz made Dson because they notice, very late, that they are loosing Poser users with their new "only for DS" policy, this is a fact, not an opinion, if not, why a company make an "only DS" figure, and after make a "botched job" to give that figure a use inside Poser. They tried to get the entire cake, the content and software pieces, they tried and they are trying , if they get the entire cake one day, that they would be a wrong day for people who made art using poser or Ds.

There is world beyond DAZ3d, they are great, but they are not the only one.

adh3d posted at 12:18AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251087

Zev0 posted at 10:22PM Sun, 24 January 2016 - #4234508

Poser isn't dead. You cannot kill an app. However, lack of AAA content support can eventually seal it's fate in terms of user growth and future development for it. Also at the time Daz made Dson, Poser was part of its plans. However that is no longer the case as Genesis 3 is no longer Poser compatible. So yeah, SM needs to stand on their own two feet now. The company that kept them going with content support is on a different path, and by the looks of it, so are all the mainstream stores. So, there is a difference in opinion and fact adh3d. Fact is, Poser support is on the decrease. The question is, what can SM do to change that?

Daz made Dson because they notice, very late, that they are losing Poser users with their new "only for DS" policy, this is a fact, not an opinion, if not, why a company make an "only DS" figure, and after make a "botched job" to give that figure a use inside Poser. They tried to get the entire cake, the content and software pieces, they tried and they are trying , if they get the entire cake one day, that they would be a wrong day for people who made art using poser or Ds.

There is world beyond DAZ3d, they are great, but they are not the only one.

You mean like back when Poser had the whole cake for ten years before DS's development?... Guess they were also a "wrong day for people who made art using poser"?

I don't know or care other then I just want it to work . Is your all's Pandora just stopping a lot for no reason. It's aggravating when are tech don't work.

I find that all of the tech works fine for my purposes. V4? She's a nice pre Poser 9 tech model, ton of junk to slap on her. There's a weight mapped one too. More freckled pug faced sex kitten "packs" then you can shake a yearly Poser allowance at.

End of story.

I guess if your only dealio is rendering pre made figures that you've invested alot of money in and her ass crack doesn't look right and her ass crack is real important for your particular pre fab pastiche artistic statement and you don't have the initiative or desire or artistic inclination to fix it yourself (any number of ways) then "sorry for the busted ass issue, it's Posers fault" might work. People are generally forgiving for such transgressive behaviors in Poser galleries I think; Bravo.

End of story.

With the recent events in DAZ-land, it is becoming time to go back to V4/M4.

"With the recent events in DAZ-land, it is becoming time to go back to V4/M4."

Not likely.. ..any one wanting to avoid the Daz Connect Encryption ,going forward, has many options that do NOT involve returning to a ten year old figure

Options such as Buying your genesis products from other stores like the ever growing catalogs right here at rendersosity&Runtime DNA

Using your existing Content that you bought before the new encrypted content arrived on the market. (after all, the new stuff is just a rehash of the old according the partisams here anyway .)

The Older stuff you purchased will remain unencrypted and stored that way in your Daz account in perpetuity

Become a merchant yourself and make and sell your own products with the "no draconian encryption" as a marketing optic.

Calm yourselves Life& rendering will go on.

EldritchCellar posted at 10:35AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251254

I find that all of the tech works fine for my purposes. V4? She's a nice pre Poser 9 tech model, ton of junk to slap on her. There's a weight mapped one too. More freckled pug faced sex kitten "packs" then you can shake a yearly Poser allowance at.

End of story.

I guess if your only dealio is rendering pre made figures that you've invested alot of money in and her ass crack doesn't look right and her ass crack is real important for your particular pre fab pastiche artistic statement and you don't have the initiative or desire or artistic inclination to fix it yourself (any number of ways) then "sorry for the busted ass issue, it's Posers fault" might work. People are generally forgiving for such transgressive behaviors in Poser galleries I think; Bravo.

End of story.

Whoah, that's harsh. Funny but harsh.

BTW, it's not the ass crack, it's the elbows. G3F has pointy elbows. If you can't tell Vicky's ass from her elbow then just don't post, lol.

Razor42 posted at 10:20AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251134

adh3d posted at 12:18AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251087

Zev0 posted at 10:22PM Sun, 24 January 2016 - #4234508

Poser isn't dead. You cannot kill an app. However, lack of AAA content support can eventually seal it's fate in terms of user growth and future development for it. Also at the time Daz made Dson, Poser was part of its plans. However that is no longer the case as Genesis 3 is no longer Poser compatible. So yeah, SM needs to stand on their own two feet now. The company that kept them going with content support is on a different path, and by the looks of it, so are all the mainstream stores. So, there is a difference in opinion and fact adh3d. Fact is, Poser support is on the decrease. The question is, what can SM do to change that?

Daz made Dson because they notice, very late, that they are losing Poser users with their new "only for DS" policy, this is a fact, not an opinion, if not, why a company make an "only DS" figure, and after make a "botched job" to give that figure a use inside Poser. They tried to get the entire cake, the content and software pieces, they tried and they are trying , if they get the entire cake one day, that they would be a wrong day for people who made art using poser or Ds.

There is world beyond DAZ3d, they are great, but they are not the only one.

You mean like back when Poser had the whole cake for ten years before DS's development?... Guess they were also a "wrong day for people who made art using poser"?

If you had been around back then, you would know that DAZ (the company) was established for the purpose of making content for Poser.

"If you can't tell Vicky's ass from her elbow then just don't post, lol."

Ok. No I can't tell, your'e right. I'm obviously not skilled enough or knowledgable enough about art or Poser or modeling to stand in the shadow of a giant such as yourself. No more technical advice or opinion commentary from myself on the forum, as you wish. Happy shopping. :)

Ok, guys ... this is getting out of hand. We are all invested in whatever figures we want. We needn't depend on other people's opinions as to whether we should use one over another. And the discussion is becoming very much in poor taste to boot. This is not constructive and I am locking it. Sorry guys.