when you been staring at the same thing for a year you start to lose your bearings, i finally have her in the rigging stages but my weird spider senses tell me her head is too big, her arms are too long, her feet are too big. i need fresh eyes, please , to look at this model, posed in neutral standing pose, anything strike you as majorly out of proportion? i got my ideas but i will keep them quiet and see what you guys tell me to do

forgot the nudity warning oops

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head too big a little too big

Can you give a straight front shot from the FRONT camera. The from Menu>Display>Guides, toggle the Head Lengths and Hip-Shoulder Relationship guides. And post a screenshot of that please.

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Wheather the head or feet are in proportion depends on the size she is. Head size is not proportional with body length. In absence of referrence objects we tend to percieve people with a high body length/head length as tall. Length variation of people is often mostly variation in length of the legs. Better question would be: 'if you see this figure how tall you think she is.'

Forgot to add: my estimate is she stands about 1.73 m.

There's what they call The Golden Ratio also called The Golden Main .

The basic version that DC,Marvel,DAZ etc etc follow.more or less

Heads are 5 eyes wide 7 "Think I use 7.5" eyes tall. eyes are center of the head ,bodys are 8 heads tall.

All ways wrist lines up with the crouch. her crouch seems to poke out a bit.

her face seems stern . I'd advice a very pretty face.

FVerbaas posted at 2:41AM Thu, 11 February 2016 - #4254363

Forgot to add: my estimate is she stands about 1.73 m.

Superman n Vicky is 4 foot 8 inches tall ,LOL

just out of curiosity a wireframe polycount would be kool

Here are some suggestions if you are still looking for feedback.

The curve of the shoulders seems a bit to maskuline i think, women tend to have more round curves.

Something with the shoulder on the back seems wrong (Marked with red lines), might be the image, but they seem to have been deformed, due to the bending.

The elbow seem a bit high (Could be the image), but the forearm and the upper arm is approx the same size, forearm is slightly longer. So maybe move the joint between forearm and hand a little bit up, only a little.

I would probably give the inner thigh and calf a bit more volume as they seem a bit straight.

The heel seems a bit big (Again the image might cheat) and also the slope of the feets seems a bit bulky (Again image might cheat)

It's coming along well. There are a few small tweaks with the armpits and the arch of the feet ... but I like what you have and it's more than I could do.

I would like to attract folks from facebook to this thread ... could you post a g-rated image so I can select it for fb view? Sorry for the inconvenience.

wow great feedback....I really appreciate it ...... yes you pointed out that weird look in her back, at the shoulder blades ....that's because the texture map is not done properly yet. that's why the weird look in a couple spots..... , her shins and feet are totally not textured right, her arms are really not textured right some of her back is not done yet.

I like the fact that you guys are pointing out those proportions that are a function of the posing and bending ...... such as " her shoulders are not round enough" etc..... as opposed to looking at just the simple relative lengths of things... so im looking at tweaking the poses and stuff like ....... the girl on the left here has rounder shoulders..... because I used more Collar bend than Shoulder bend.... meanwhile the girl in the middle has rounder hips b/c I took away a little weight in the joint deformer of her Buttock

her zero pose is on the right, btw her zero mesh has the foot position ready for 5 inch heels, (just need to bend the toe up)....I preferred that over bending the foot into a 5 inch heel shoe position and trying working that joint to be perfect

Im really concerned about the stern look , somewhere I lost the mildly pleasant look on her face im wondering if it is a function of the amount of eyelid morph

heres some detail on the face no morphs applied here. nada.

figure total 44,000 polys

The more round shoulders look a lot better i think.

Here are some more suggestions:

• The outside of the shoulders seems a bit to bulky, i think.

• Maybe smooth out the waist a little other wise she might look to slim here compared to the rest of her.

• The collar bone seem to connect a bit to close to the shoulder.

• The wrist seems a bit to low, if you look at this reference image: Female anatomy Also the wrist seems a little to thin i think.

• The thumb might be a bit to short.

• The feet might be a bit to wide, if you compare they are almost as wide as her leg. If you look at the reference image above, they are slightly bigger than the calfs.

For the head and the stern look you could try something like this:

• Her cheek seems to be to sharp, if you compare the roundness of the girl and your model, Her cheek are much more smooth.

• The upper lips might help if they were a bit narrower in the horizontal and not as big as the lower lips.

• The chin might need to be more round as well and slightly shorter.

Anyway think it looks good overall, so these are just suggestions and also keep in mind that these are made based on your images so, maybe i got it wrong. :)

Thanks whats great is a lot of what you say was already lurking around in the back of my brain..... so now it is confirmed.....its good to have a lot of comments / criticism I appreciate your taking the time and effort.

Diamond

This is just a old ruff n the frames not complete and I know most don't model this way. but if ya frames ratio is correct then your mesh will be also.

they also have drawing or pictures of models front,side,etc etc n follow that.

or just scan a real human.

good stuff RorrKonn

@Boni : here is a PG-13 rating, which for me is a stretch......and I don't think I am even capable of rated G

the question is not: is she perfectly anatomically correct when compared to scientific modeling tools ? I could have done that easily. the question is ; "how does she look" ? appealing? or is something "wrong" In your opinion...... boobs too big? head too big? feet too ugly? butt too big? butt not big enough?

if everyone modeled used and and matched the exact scientific tools of measure available for 3d modeling, every model would look basically the same.

her proportions, basically, were created with those tools, and I know she is pretty well within normal human being proportions.......but I want to know what is appealing about her or not. I want to hear more reaction about the flesh ..... and not the skeleton

maybe is my fault for framing the question incorrectly in the first place

shoulders too "man-like" and cheeks too hollow was a great answer very true also

she is 7 and 3/4 heads tall
so, maybe its why im felling the head is too big....but it really comes down to ....not whether I made the figure 8 heads tall or what......

What would you change to make it a more appealing looking figure..........

**The base frame is important cause if it's wrong then the mesh will never be right.

Females that we call 10's or babes do all have the same body. victoria secrets models ,playboys n penthouse models.etc etc

n the basic same faces. Facial Masks

ever marvel at the fact that we can distinguish between millions of different faces. there all just a mm away from another.

but all squirrel ,rats ,deers ,raccoons ,wolfs ,bears etc etc look just a like to us.

I know you want to make your mesh a 10 .theirs multiple answers. you study ,you try n try again till you get it. you ask ,you make mask n the golden ratio etc etc. what ever gets you there .but in the end it's magic you just know it n feel it n very few on this planet have ever gotten there. **

the question is not: is she perfectly anatomically correct when compared to scientific modeling tools ? I could have done that easily. the question is ; "how does she look" ? appealing? or is something "wrong" In your opinion...... boobs too big? head too big? feet too ugly? butt too big? butt not big enough?

I see what you are saying, i personally wouldn't use a cage to size my character, because i think you might risk getting something that is a bit to robotic, but it can be a good idea for practicing. But for me a human is not that different than for instant modelling an advanced machine, in the sense that the underlying structure is carrying the surface. In a human its the bones, muscles. If these are wrong the skin wont look correct either obvious.

Now the biggest difference between a machine and a human, besides the obvious of course :), is that we as humans our self are extremely effective or good at spotting if something looks odd when looking at other humans, which makes it a hell lot of harder making a human model compared to a machine, because we expect less or are not as good as recognizing machines as humans. But there have been a lot of scientific studies of for instant beauty, which RorrKonn also sort of mentioned. so my point is that even though you mention that you are not that concern whether she is anatomical correct based on a scientific model, its very important i think, because if you are to far away in these proportions it will be notice automatically, maybe not down to every single detail, but we will recognize it as if something is wrong.

And that is where anatomic reference images gets handy, because they can help you place bones and muscles correct and with these you can place skin on top.

So at least to me at first glance, i think the feets are to big. I would also reduce the breast size, simply because they seem a bit out of proportions with the rest of the body. At least while you model her i might be a good idea. Because breast size tend to follow the amount of body fat. But its not a heavy model.

I think the legs need more volume, it doesn't seem to be able to carry bones and muscles while being that slim.

I also think the wrists are to narrow and the forearm are to long, again if you look at the anatomic illustration and try to draw a straight line from the wrist across her body, you can see it insect higher on her hip than yours does.

I think you hip area is quite good.

The head does have some problems, which i mainly think comes to the cheek and lips area, something seems wrong here, but its hard to see with out a closer look. And still think the former suggestion would fix most of it.

The bones connecting at the front, (Those going from the middel of the chest, just below the neck to the shoulders) need to have a bigger gap, they are to close together i think.

She looks nicely proportioned to me. Good work.

Skinny girls with huge, unnaturally perky boobs look as weird to me as they would if their hands or feet were way too big. BUT... I'm a girl, and most of the naked women I see are in the locker room and showers at the gym, in real life. :D However, I do notice the occasional boob job, and for someone who's been 'enhanced', your model looks just fine in that regard. Better than V4, actually, whose chest and shoulders seem way too narrow to accommodate really big breasts. (V4's upper arms always seem to intersect oddly with big boobs, and she needs 3rd party morphs to correct this. To me, your model looks good.)

[Yes, heterosexual women do subtly check each other out/notice each other in the locker room. As long as there's no staring, no one's bothered. Shy/modest (usually younger) girls will change in a cubicle and shower in a swim suit. Or they have perfected a way to undress/get dressed while wrapped in a towel. Older women and/or actual athletes generally couldn't give a damn. And some enhanced women seem to like showing off what they paid for. :D Unless it was reconstruction after mastectomy... but this is getting way OT. LOL.]

You're going to have a hard time with uv compression/poly compression when you try to make a small breast morph for her. The nipples will be very difficult to manage in that regard. A totally flat chested morph? Man, that's going to be difficult. The only other critical comment I have is that the cleavage seems too high or severe. The collar bones could use some definition. But I think I gave you the same critique a couple of years ago.

As far as proportions go? I was forced to sculpt and life draw in school... which is a necessary evil from my perspective. I imagine that you are going for a realistic figure so except for the implants I'd say she looks ok. I think her butt looks really good. :D... she's also cutely short so her head size looks spot on to me. The face can be fixed or changed easily. The topology looks good, or good enough IMO.

Caveat; most of my favorite artists don't adhere strictly to "rules". In general rules are something to be learned and modified knowingly in the pursuit of development of a personal style or vision. Hell, even in 3d and Poser in particular most of my favorite models don't even remotely qualify as adhering to strict rules, or even the constraints of "human". The toon figure I've been using and making stuff for has arms like a primate! That's why god created scaling, having ball joints also helps in my instance. Go with what pleases you, don't obsess too much over rules... or you'll get bogged down for another couple of years with an unfinished figure. I see it all the time. She's not the only figure you'll ever create I imagine? Finish her, have fun, move on. Or not?

Good work. Wouldn't mind making a Sylvia Saint head/fbm morph for her... ;)

thanks again, I really agree with all of these detailed comments- I struggled with the hard upper cleavage outline for a while and now I have a fix for it

...between going back to the modeling program and changing some of the joint deforming weighting I am targeting now to make a bunch of fixes

the breasts are big because I wanted a high poly compression while they were in a LARGE state, rather than stretch them in to a large state and stretch the polys out and ruin some nice goosebumpy skin texture map that you might want to apply....... and yu might guess, I prefer large breasts better than flat chested, so that's the direction I went in support of....but you know what, whether too big or too small, they look like implants and that is NO GOOD..... but is easy to fix

every one will have different opinions of what they think looks good . but all that can be done with morphs. I would go a head and release her with a Name now.

RorrKonn oh no no so much more to do first shes not even half as good as I imagine she should and will be. small victories tonight though... the boobs are less weird I got rid of that hard ridge that rode up too high on her cleavage....the figure on the left is zero pose original, but now with the boob fix is on the center model. yeah unbelievable nice firm boobs but so what ,,some women do have them even without surgery and this model will have fine boobs I don't care but a bigger victory I think, is I got the Buttock and Thigh joints right, so that her hips stay looking good when she closes her legs, and best of all her butt now keeps a good butt shape .....previously her but was getting "compacted" and getting squished upward when she closed her legs with too much hip and not enough weight on the bottom end. I like the butt now when she has legs closed . her shoulder dimensions and weight I think I improved by FAR again just with joint tweaks........but im afraid to start putting her arms up way over her head, I have not even seen what happened there yet im scared.

Well ,all right will weight a bit longer but you all are driving me crazy taking so long to release characters. I have no patience ,Where talking cruelty to animals here ;)

OMG weight mapping is SICK !!!!!! sorry to be such a noob, new to the game and all......but I can see that this project is going to be a lot of fun.... definitely not mastered it yet, but this first result from my learning weight mapping, in the last couple days, is worlds apart from those old weird angel wings for armpits and the crashing of the hips and stuff. I like to model and model and model. that's what I like to do, I cant make shaders, I cant light a scene for crap....but with the extension of joint deformation into further body parts, and with weight mapping, it gives a modeler light at the end of the tunnel ..... Its nice to know that a rigger now has the tools to treat your body right.

I think I will keep this one and work on it all the way thru .... she's got a good basic build ..... I just have to fight through the joint deformers now like: in this render for instance..... the biceps need smoothing .... and the elbows are F'd.... and need more smoothing in the weight map of the armpits....
......and a host of other things....but to me something in her core shape just looks right. looks like she hit it. Ill be damned how her face suddenly turned ugly in the past 72 hours that's something ill have to schedule a good amount of time for, but im taking this one all the way thru

yeah this will work. .... goddam head is too big

you can tweak looks latter n there's always morphs but her ratio looks good to me. her heads size seems alright. but her eyes might set to high in the head. eyes set in the center of the head. it's difficult to say with the poses n hair.

Does she have genitalia or just a camel toe ? If you aim to sell her I'd strongly advise to have her genitalia.

Just a heads up guys, mind the flags please. I've added several nudity flags. You must use the flag each and every time you upload a nude image. I've also removed several language flags that weren't even remotely necessary. You must also use the flags if you are quoting a post that required a flag. Thanks, and if you have any questions, sitemail me or Boni.

I tried to add them about one second later, as an edit, when I realized forgot them. it doesn't work. you cannot update flags by edit .

If I'm not sure I put a flag ,better safe the sorry.

If I forget to flag ,copy the post ,delete the post n repost with paste n a flag.

heres where im at after a full day ... and here is where im staying, except for the way the eyeballs are fit...and a little more bottom eyelid definition is also needed

santicor posted at 8:16PM Mon, 15 February 2016 - #4254350

head too big a little too big

The head looks about right to me, depending on the height... Maybe the eyes are too high/forehead too short that gives that appearance?

What are your plans for this figure Santicor? Are you going to sell it, freebie it, or keep it to yourself?

I think moogal has a good point about the forehead/eyeheight ratio, just from non comparative or artistic inspection... But I tend to like Neo Classical/Rococo/Pre- Raphaelite looking type women with high foreheads.

here......nasty unforgiving lighting, and nasty unforgiving hair prop... on purpose......the one on the left is the original with eyes too high.......(and that is backed up by the facemask, albeit even the new one on the right is not a perfect fit.) BUT yes it was the eye height I saw a couple of comments about it earlier in the thread and plus the recent comment ...and it finally sunk in I think that if you look at the one on the left for a bit....and then change over and zone in on the one on the right, you get a little better sense of realism with the one on the right. I don't know, E.C. I don't know what i will do with the figure, I guess it depends on how good it comes out. why ?

"I don't know, E.C. I don't know what i will do with the figure, I guess it depends on how good it comes out. why ?"

Just curiosity, no burning personal interest myself. I already have more "realistic" females and crap for them than I'll ever use. I'm probably alot like you and spend most of my time in a modeler, tweaking my own things. Depending on how and if you decide to put her out that will indicate how much more work and additional stuff will need to be made (especially considering the kind of figure it is). As a free figure you would have a lot less support and investment of energies to worry about I think. Yknow, the hows and whys one usually can expect in a wip thread in a public forum.

_Depending on how and if you decide to put her out that will indicate how much more work and additional stuff will need to be made _ I kinda see the morphs , the clothes, texture maps etc, ( if that's what you mean) to be pretty easy , im looking forward to how easy that will be....after trying to make human face and body look real in poser, ( if I ever get there), I know that the additional stuff will be a pleasure. I think im getting trapped too much by the concept of REALISM, what I really want is simply a figure that loads up from your library without looking like CRO MAGNON man. That's all I ever wanted. why make a user work and work to correct the horrible ugly ape like appearance of a figure like....let's say...Alyson... ( ugh) before they can start to have fun making a composition. Jessica was close... she had that .... quasi-realistic sexy female look, (maybe a bit too buff )I don't know why she never became more popular.

Well, make no mistake santicor. I think you're on the right path for sure. She looks really good IMO. The changes you've made always seem to work in her favor. Look forward to seeing where this goes. As far as the REALISM stuff, I think she's a good pin up style figure right now. I think the best pin up art is stylized anyway. That's the art, otherwise what's the point? Just look at a photo...

thanks for the encouragement. That pretty much focusses everything in a nutshell. Pinup is what I am going for. When I first loaded up Alyson I felt like a company with the initials SM had just kicked me in my balls

how the hip curve SHOULD look is like the white arrow section here. the biggest challenge so far is getting the curve to be like this doctored image, without wrecking the skeleton