Hi Guys, since from what I read around here Poser Pro11 has complete enclosed environment, does that mean I can use HDRI environment maps for lite the scene , or it does still use only light probes as before ? I can't find nowhere the answer before purchasing the upgrade to Poser Pro 11 and I would like to know . Thanks in advance Cath

P11 comes with something called a Construct, which is an enclosed environment but it isn't a true sphere...it's almost in the shape of a football stadium dome (for lack of a better word picture). P11 does comes with scenes that you can put on the Construct (sand and sky) but I usually end up using a true environment sphere and not even using the Construct. I am sure others see this differently but that's my take.

Thanks, I was thinking it was finally a true environment sphere , so in this case not what I expected .. too bad

you don't need P11 to do what I think you are talking about. I use a sphere. The sphere lights up the scene and provides something for reflective objects to reflect.

https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/environment-sphere

an example of mine that uses the sphere. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/autumn-sunlight/2480813/

I use Poser Pro 2014 , but I was interested in unbiased rendering that the new upgrade offer , physically based rendering not LBL compared to Reality, Octane or Iray but inside Poser .. that is the reason I asked in first place ..but thank you for your reply

ghostship2 posted at 11:51AM Fri, 26 February 2016 - #4257613

you don't need P11 to do what I think you are talking about. I use a sphere. The sphere lights up the scene and provides something for reflective objects to reflect.

https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/environment-sphere

The new rendering of P11 Superfly is definitely an upgrade from previous shipments and well worth the investment (imo)...you can get some really good material textures, very close to PBR.

If you have no proper PBR light system superfly will not help you , there is no way to set light parameters physically correct with environment so the result will be just closer and that is the problem . Not worthy for me as I have free or paid programs that do the stuff correctly so paying to get backward really not my business . I saw the examples and boy I can do better with Poser 2014 .

As I said "close"...quite honestly DAZ has a superior material/environment system at this point (as I am assuming that is what you use)...but if you can render out of Quixel then that is really the shizz!

Hi there

You still can use BB EnvSphere inside Poser Pro 2016 with Superfly,most of us which use Poser Pro we are using mostly BB EnvSphere,this construct you don't need to use if you don't want to,I usually delete the construct and build my scene with BB EnvSphere mostly

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Yes since last year they have thanks to Iray and Nvidia but not before , my PBR work was actually featured by NVIDIA and I want to keep on the level, I preferred Poser material room before that and I still do as it is more advanced for raytracing , and if it has the things we missing right now it would be even better , I was really hoping for to tell the truth . I use Poser ,Daz, Octane , Reality and other programs and yes indeed if you can render PBR in real time with a plugin like Quixel then you wonder , what is wrong here with the picture .. I always enjoyed photorealistic renders and it was always my goal , I was hoping I could make some great PBR based products for Poser but not the way it is constructed right now.

Cath, may I ask what you mean by "proper PBR light system"? If you are referring back to your original question and you mean lighting the scene with HDRI environment maps, the EnvSphere we are talking about was constructed with this in mind (just in case that isn't clear from the above).

Izi :)

Thanks I am already aware of that but one question , If I use the sphere by BB and plug in my HDRI environment maps, will the maps produce sunlight and shadows in Poser pro 11 wirh superfly ? or just global illumination , I mean only the HDRI no additional light .

jura11 posted at 4:01PM Fri, 26 February 2016 - #4257670

Hi there

You still can use BB EnvSphere inside Poser Pro 2016 with Superfly,most of us which use Poser Pro we are using mostly BB EnvSphere,this construct you don't need to use if you don't want to,I usually delete the construct and build my scene with BB EnvSphere mostly

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Hi Izi , I mean by that that you can control the HDRI environment setting to correct the ISO, shutter speed etc.. since each HDRI can be adjusted to produce the photographic light settings like with real camera . Since my HDRI maps has 28 EV steps, I can have 28 different light settings with just one map but for that we need a proper light control system , only this way you will get true physically based rendering and not doing it just for the eye .. Rendering with PBR is exactly like taking pictures with real camera and the HDRI environment is the virtual world , like in Octane, Reality or DAZ you have the basic settings to control it so the materials are rendered optimal and looks real . Of course there you can have just photometric lights to do the same thing but I am not sure if Poser pro 11 have it already . The only interest right now I have is in Poser Pro 11 and not early version as I own them already since Poser 4

IsaoShi posted at 4:05PM Fri, 26 February 2016 - #4257675

Cath, may I ask what you mean by "proper PBR light system"? If you are referring back to your original question and you mean lighting the scene with HDRI environment maps, the EnvSphere we are talking about was constructed with this in mind (just in case that isn't clear from the above).

Izi :)

Mec4D posted at 9:55PM Fri, 26 February 2016 - #4257676

Thanks I am already aware of that but one question , If I use the sphere by BB and plug in my HDRI environment maps, will the maps produce sunlight and shadows in Poser pro 11 wirh superfly ? or just global illumination , I mean only the HDRI no additional light .

jura11 posted at 4:01PM Fri, 26 February 2016 - #4257670

Hi there

You still can use BB EnvSphere inside Poser Pro 2016 with Superfly,most of us which use Poser Pro we are using mostly BB EnvSphere,this construct you don't need to use if you don't want to,I usually delete the construct and build my scene with BB EnvSphere mostly

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Hi Cath

On this should reply,BB not me,but I will try at least,what I know Poser doesn't have Physical camera with such functions like Shutter,ISO,EV or Tonemapping etc

Here are two renders both has been rendered only 125 seconds,V4 with skin/morph from Addy and EZSkin applied SSS In this I've used default 0 rotation of the BB EnvSphere

With this I've used 113 rotation of the BB EnvPhere

In most renderers you are using HDRI for global illumination and there you are really need to use other lights,have look on V-RAY or Corona Render which I use mostly and many others there you are really need to use more sources of the light as HDRI will not cut it this,agree they have proper ISO,EV,tonemapping etc,but still you are really need to use there more sources of light

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

If I use the sphere by BB and plug in my HDRI environment maps, will the maps produce sunlight and shadows in Poser pro 11 wirh superfly ? or just global illumination , I mean only the HDRI no additional light .

The basic answer is yes, they will. I don't have any good sunlight HDRIs, but this is a fast, noisy render without any lights, just an HDRI loaded on the EnvSphere.

(For some reason jura's images are not loading for me, so I can't see what he posted).

Sharp shadows from an HDRI require that the image is made to accurately encode the intensity of the sun. Many images I test do not. In fact, most do not. We blame the renderer or the means by which we include the HDRI, but the real culprit is that the HDRI is not physically accurate.

I wrote a long thread showing how to tell if your image is really HIGH dynamic range or just slightly better than JPEG. it has to do with how many f-stops were used in bracketing the photo. Most were only taken with 5 stops dynamic range (32 to 1) which means it's not even close to carrying the total energy that was actually there in the world around the camera.

I have found that boosting the luminance from the sun spot in the image is a way to compensate and get it to produce the correct illumination as a sole light source. However, SuperFly (being a straight path tracer) is not good at finding this hot spot. It takes a very large number of samples to accumulate or integrate the light correctly. It's much simpler to just using a matching infinite light, as is done with most of the sIBL sets.

By way of demonstration, I loaded a "High" dynamic range image (I use the quotes sarcastically here). This image does have some luminance above 1 where the sun is, but the value is not anywhere as high as the real sun is, relative to the nearby sky. I used a few math nodes to isolate the sun spot and multiply its value by 32. (5 more stops)

The render is far from clean (and I'll let it run quite a while to see where it ends up) but the shadows are well defined even though I have NO light sources in the scene, just the HDRI (with my sun spot booster).

This is a demo, not a practical use case. I normally just use an infinite light, which converges much faster (minutes vs. hours).

How it looks after breakfast.

Thanks BB, I have HDR that are physically accurate with dynamics of 28EV stops , you don't find it on the market often and they render fantastic with light and shadows in any program that use unbiased rendering, so for this subject I am ready :)

bagginsbill posted at 9:18AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258016

Sharp shadows from an HDRI require that the image is made to accurately encode the intensity of the sun. Many images I test do not. In fact, most do not. We blame the renderer or the means by which we include the HDRI, but the real culprit is that the HDRI is not physically accurate.

I wrote a long thread showing how to tell if your image is really HIGH dynamic range or just slightly better than JPEG. it has to do with how many f-stops were used in bracketing the photo. Most were only taken with 5 stops dynamic range (32 to 1) which means it's not even close to carrying the total energy that was actually there in the world around the camera.

I have found that boosting the luminance from the sun spot in the image is a way to compensate and get it to produce the correct illumination as a sole light source. However, SuperFly (being a straight path tracer) is not good at finding this hot spot. It takes a very large number of samples to accumulate or integrate the light correctly. It's much simpler to just using a matching infinite light, as is done with most of the sIBL sets.

Ok it is what I was looking for ! thanks for the time showing it .. I have over 6000 cuda cores at 1300 Mhz so it should render pretty quick in P11 Pro .. so where is the "Supper Sphere "' that I can get ?

bagginsbill posted at 9:27AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258022

How it looks after breakfast.

Thank you IsaoShi and Jura for your reply and examples !

Here's the EnvSphere link

The Panoramic materials are overkill - you can just connect your image map to Ambient_Color and set Ambient_Value for whatever light level you want.

The materials it comes with were dealing with shader gamma and other nonsense that we just don't have to deal with now.

Thanks , going to try it late today ..

bagginsbill posted at 9:54AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258483

Here's the EnvSphere link

The Panoramic materials are overkill - you can just connect your image map to Ambient_Color and set Ambient_Value for whatever light level you want.

The materials it comes with were dealing with shader gamma and other nonsense that we just don't have to deal with now.

Mec4D posted at 3:51PM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258476

Ok it is what I was looking for ! thanks for the time showing it .. I have over 6000 cuda cores at 1300 Mhz so it should render pretty quick in P11 Pro .. so where is the "Supper Sphere "' that I can get ?

bagginsbill posted at 9:27AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258022

How it looks after breakfast.

Hi Cath

I've posted over on RDNA small benchmark which should help you... Regarding speed of the Superlfly you will see,I'm running EVGA Titan X with GTX 780 and sometimes GTX780 is lot faster than Titan X,seems like Cycles/Superfly is not optimized for Titan X or any GTX9xx series

Plus lot more depends on scene and what resolution are you rendering,IRAY and Superfly are very similar when you do rendering interior scenes and render times are very similar there

This EnvSphere is great and I can highly recommend there

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Thanks , Blender Cycles isn't a fast renderer compared to most and won't divide GPU rendering equally to what you have , I have 2 Titan X SC does not mean it will use both on the same level , it can use full Titan and just half of the other what is not much to do with the hardware but the software itself . The best performance was in Octane then after Iray
I will monitor the GPU's usage and level and let you know what is happening while rendering in P11 pro.. it will be interesting evening !

jura11 posted at 11:06AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258500

Mec4D posted at 3:51PM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258476

Ok it is what I was looking for ! thanks for the time showing it .. I have over 6000 cuda cores at 1300 Mhz so it should render pretty quick in P11 Pro .. so where is the "Supper Sphere "' that I can get ?

bagginsbill posted at 9:27AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258022

How it looks after breakfast.

Hi Cath

I've posted over on RDNA small benchmark which should help you... Regarding speed of the Superlfly you will see,I'm running EVGA Titan X with GTX 780 and sometimes GTX780 is lot faster than Titan X,seems like Cycles/Superfly is not optimized for Titan X or any GTX9xx series

Plus lot more depends on scene and what resolution are you rendering,IRAY and Superfly are very similar when you do rendering interior scenes and render times are very similar there

This EnvSphere is great and I can highly recommend there

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Mec4D posted at 4:24PM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258502

Thanks , Blender Cycles isn't a fast renderer compared to most and won't divide GPU rendering equally to what you have , I have 2 Titan X SC does not mean it will use both on the same level , it can use full Titan and just half of the other what is not much to do with the hardware but the software itself . The best performance was in Octane then after Iray
I will monitor the GPU's usage and level and let you know what is happening while rendering in P11 pro.. it will be interesting evening !

jura11 posted at 11:06AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258500

Mec4D posted at 3:51PM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258476

Ok it is what I was looking for ! thanks for the time showing it .. I have over 6000 cuda cores at 1300 Mhz so it should render pretty quick in P11 Pro .. so where is the "Supper Sphere "' that I can get ?

bagginsbill posted at 9:27AM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258022

How it looks after breakfast.

Hi Cath

I've posted over on RDNA small benchmark which should help you... Regarding speed of the Superlfly you will see,I'm running EVGA Titan X with GTX 780 and sometimes GTX780 is lot faster than Titan X,seems like Cycles/Superfly is not optimized for Titan X or any GTX9xx series

Plus lot more depends on scene and what resolution are you rendering,IRAY and Superfly are very similar when you do rendering interior scenes and render times are very similar there

This EnvSphere is great and I can highly recommend there

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Hi

What is slowing down in Cycles is SSS if you have,which is very slow on Titan X,if I'm comparing this to older GTX780,but I've done few tests with my other GPU MSI R9 390X which I've used in Cycles and this card is lot faster than Titan X which is OC to +255MHz on core and 300MHz at memory,Power and temperature target raised to 110% and temp target set at 91C (temps has been in low high 70's) with 40% fan profile

Agree Cycles or Superfly won't divide GPU equally you will see in GPU-Z or MSI Afterburner(EVGA Precision which is copy of MSI AB),Octane agree is fast,IRAY depends on scene,but personally if I need to use other renderer then Corona wins down for me in 3DS MAX,used several other renderers and this is for me best,fast rendering,no nonsense regarding you need that GPU or other GPU,simple CPU rendering

Cycles never been fast renderer,but again this really depends on scene as in most renderers

Hope this helps and good luck

Thanks,Jura

Totally agree with you on that ! SSS will slow down any scene no matter the software we use .. my CPU and twin Titans are water cooled so it is steady at 32-38 C max even when rendering animation for hours .. the best step I could do in this direction , before I could blow dry my hair lol , lower temperatures faster GPU and you never hear the fans again as you know, how more power go to the fan how less performance for the GPU . I do tonnes of work for living so I need faster rendering .. having good card is great and also doing good stuff with even better .. I rendered for a long time with my GTX 760 and I still did the job just much slower .. better card will not do better art .. just faster ..but if it was just a hobby I would stick to my laptop ..

jura11 posted at 12:53PM Tue, 01 March 2016 - #4258505

Hi

What is slowing down in Cycles is SSS if you have,which is very slow on Titan X,if I'm comparing this to older GTX780,but I've done few tests with my other GPU MSI R9 390X which I've used in Cycles and this card is lot faster than Titan X which is OC to +255MHz on core and 300MHz at memory,Power and temperature target raised to 110% and temp target set at 91C (temps has been in low high 70's) with 40% fan profile

Agree Cycles or Superfly won't divide GPU equally you will see in GPU-Z or MSI Afterburner(EVGA Precision which is copy of MSI AB),Octane agree is fast,IRAY depends on scene,but personally if I need to use other renderer then Corona wins down for me in 3DS MAX,used several other renderers and this is for me best,fast rendering,no nonsense regarding you need that GPU or other GPU,simple CPU rendering

Cycles never been fast renderer,but again this really depends on scene as in most renderers

Hope this helps and good luck

Thanks,Jura