Could always fix the shoes to work with what ever characters.

Ya 1000's of girls with different names that all look the same is a bit redundant.

I always wished they would sell a complete movie set " termanater ,transformer ,etc etc movies had a set ". just buy ,load n animate.

At times I wonder if Vendors have even seen the new game characters. When game characters look way better Ya would think a light would go off.

ssgbryan posted at 4:56AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289126

The high textures don't really matter unless you are looking at pores. Bigger doesn't actually mean better when you take into account the resolution of both your image and your monitor - it just means you need more memory for your scene (a 1Gb swim suit? Yes, it does exist).

If you are using Dawn or Dusk, why on earth would you shop here? Your time would be better spent at Hivewire3d. The same can be said for Pauline & Paul. Just about everything sold here for Paul and Pauline is also sold at Content Paradise and the SM forums are picking up. If you are using the genesis figure (any iteration) in Poser, you will have a better selection at DAZ, and the forums are more useful.

There is less and less new V4 (or anything else) content sold here - that isn't a reflection of Poser, it is a reflection of the vendors that sell here. There are a lot of vendors here that came in during the V4 era and are hell-bent that they aren't leaving October 2007. They are going to continue to make products for Poser 7 as opposed to a modern version of Poser - and they are going to whine about shrinking sales rather than leave 2007 and Poser 7 behind.

(snip) No need to purchase a new figure. Great for me, not so much for vendors.

(snip) After years of being told by vendors here that if I didn't like something, I should make it myself. Challenge accepted - I rarely buy texture sets for clothing anymore, because I know how easy they are to make. Great for me, not so much for vendors.

(snip) So, I am having to learn how to make them myself, which will mean that there is one less thing I need a vendor for. Great for me, not so much for vendors.

So what does this mean as a Poser user?

(snip) With just a little bit of work on your part, you too can have a genesis figure running in Poser that looks exactly like the V4 character made by the same vendor.

(snip) Pity that vendors aren't upping their game, but that is on them, not the end-user. The same can be said for characters, hair, etc.

Poser users are going in one direction, DS users in another and vendors in a third. Whether or not 'Rosity comes out of it's death spiral, I'll be getting the next version of Poser.

Wait, the majority your argument is that this is the vendors' fault? Do you understand how "free market" and "supply and demand" works, right? That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Male_M3dia posted at 6:14AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289170

ssgbryan posted at 4:56AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289126

The high textures don't really matter unless you are looking at pores. Bigger doesn't actually mean better when you take into account the resolution of both your image and your monitor - it just means you need more memory for your scene (a 1Gb swim suit? Yes, it does exist).

If you are using Dawn or Dusk, why on earth would you shop here? Your time would be better spent at Hivewire3d. The same can be said for Pauline & Paul. Just about everything sold here for Paul and Pauline is also sold at Content Paradise and the SM forums are picking up. If you are using the genesis figure (any iteration) in Poser, you will have a better selection at DAZ, and the forums are more useful.

There is less and less new V4 (or anything else) content sold here - that isn't a reflection of Poser, it is a reflection of the vendors that sell here. There are a lot of vendors here that came in during the V4 era and are hell-bent that they aren't leaving October 2007. They are going to continue to make products for Poser 7 as opposed to a modern version of Poser - and they are going to whine about shrinking sales rather than leave 2007 and Poser 7 behind.

(snip) No need to purchase a new figure. Great for me, not so much for vendors.

(snip) After years of being told by vendors here that if I didn't like something, I should make it myself. Challenge accepted - I rarely buy texture sets for clothing anymore, because I know how easy they are to make. Great for me, not so much for vendors.

(snip) So, I am having to learn how to make them myself, which will mean that there is one less thing I need a vendor for. Great for me, not so much for vendors.

So what does this mean as a Poser user?

(snip) With just a little bit of work on your part, you too can have a genesis figure running in Poser that looks exactly like the V4 character made by the same vendor.

(snip) Pity that vendors aren't upping their game, but that is on them, not the end-user. The same can be said for characters, hair, etc.

Poser users are going in one direction, DS users in another and vendors in a third. Whether or not 'Rosity comes out of it's death spiral, I'll be getting the next version of Poser.

Wait, the majority your argument is that this is the vendors' fault? Do you understand how "free market" and "supply and demand" works, right? That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Uh, actually, yeah it is. Vendors are supposed to "supply" what the customers "demand". Now, if you want to argue that not enough customers are demanding stuff for certain figures to make it worth the vendors while, okay I can agree with you there. But that is why I support the idea of "niche" markets. If only five or so vendors are making things for Pauline or Dawn, then they can make a pretty decent income supporting just that one figure. If they're really good at what they make, they can even charge more.

The MAJORITY of the Poser/Daz market makes pinups. That is why there is such an abundance of young white girls and slutwear; that's what most people buy..

Like it or not, that is the reality, ask any vendor

EClark1894 posted at 9:11AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289173

Uh, actually, yeah it is. Vendors are supposed to "supply" what the customers "demand". Now, if you want to argue that not enough customers are demanding stuff for certain figures to make it worth the vendors while, okay I can agree with you there. But that is why I support the idea of "niche" markets. If only five or so vendors are making things for Pauline or Dawn, then they can make a pretty decent income supporting just that one figure. If they're really good at what they make, they can even charge more.

Sorry but it isn't the vendors' fault. Your assertion actually makes it the customer's fault for not making it worth vendors' while to continuing to make certain content because at the end of the day vendors have bills to pay. Let's let that argument go.

Keep in mind there has been many vendors that have held out longer than others making content and the money they have coming in is less; so it seems those people that request that content is buying less of that content. If you want to have vendors making content you both have something the customer will start buying again and something that the vendors can use and make their jobs easier. In a lot of conversations I've had with poser vendors that have switched over, they all say that SM hasn't listened to any of their concerns or requests, taking the opinion of those that don't sell over those that do.. so if they find a company won't listen to them well they'll go to someone that actually has.

Male_M3dia posted at 12:45PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289187

EClark1894 posted at 9:11AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289173

Uh, actually, yeah it is. Vendors are supposed to "supply" what the customers "demand". Now, if you want to argue that not enough customers are demanding stuff for certain figures to make it worth the vendors while, okay I can agree with you there. But that is why I support the idea of "niche" markets. If only five or so vendors are making things for Pauline or Dawn, then they can make a pretty decent income supporting just that one figure. If they're really good at what they make, they can even charge more.

Sorry but it isn't the vendors' fault. Your assertion actually makes it the customer's fault for not making it worth vendors' while to continuing to make certain content because at the end of the day vendors have bills to pay. Let's let that argument go.

Keep in mind there has been many vendors that have held out longer than others making content and the money they have coming in is less; so it seems those people that request that content is buying less of that content. If you want to have vendors making content you both have something the customer will start buying again and something that the vendors can use and make their jobs easier. In a lot of conversations I've had with poser vendors that have switched over, they all say that SM hasn't listened to any of their concerns or requests, taking the opinion of those that don't sell over those that do.. so if they find a company won't listen to them well they'll go to someone that actually has.

But Poser doesn't make content, and it doesn't control the people who do, and now you're saying SM shouldn't be listening to the people who buy that content. So who's left? And what do these people want from SM?

EClark1894 posted at 2:05PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289229

Male_M3dia posted at 12:45PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289187

EClark1894 posted at 9:11AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289173

Uh, actually, yeah it is. Vendors are supposed to "supply" what the customers "demand". Now, if you want to argue that not enough customers are demanding stuff for certain figures to make it worth the vendors while, okay I can agree with you there. But that is why I support the idea of "niche" markets. If only five or so vendors are making things for Pauline or Dawn, then they can make a pretty decent income supporting just that one figure. If they're really good at what they make, they can even charge more.

Sorry but it isn't the vendors' fault. Your assertion actually makes it the customer's fault for not making it worth vendors' while to continuing to make certain content because at the end of the day vendors have bills to pay. Let's let that argument go.

Keep in mind there has been many vendors that have held out longer than others making content and the money they have coming in is less; so it seems those people that request that content is buying less of that content. If you want to have vendors making content you both have something the customer will start buying again and something that the vendors can use and make their jobs easier. In a lot of conversations I've had with poser vendors that have switched over, they all say that SM hasn't listened to any of their concerns or requests, taking the opinion of those that don't sell over those that do.. so if they find a company won't listen to them well they'll go to someone that actually has.

But Poser doesn't make content, and it doesn't control the people who do, and now you're saying SM shouldn't be listening to the people who buy that content. So who's left? And what do these people want from SM?

Seriously? If you want content made, it's probably best you listen to those that make it or you'll keep having threads like this. Your last two questions aren't for me to answer, but it shouldn't be to hard to contact the stores to see who those vendors are and get their input. And don't make that public to non-vendors so you can get a better answer. Besides if people want poser content made, same thing applies. But it makes sense since people feel it's the vendor's fault, that's reducing your pool as well since no one really cares what they think. ;)

Male_M3dia posted at 2:35PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289240

EClark1894 posted at 2:05PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289229

Male_M3dia posted at 12:45PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289187

EClark1894 posted at 9:11AM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289173

Uh, actually, yeah it is. Vendors are supposed to "supply" what the customers "demand". Now, if you want to argue that not enough customers are demanding stuff for certain figures to make it worth the vendors while, okay I can agree with you there. But that is why I support the idea of "niche" markets. If only five or so vendors are making things for Pauline or Dawn, then they can make a pretty decent income supporting just that one figure. If they're really good at what they make, they can even charge more.

Sorry but it isn't the vendors' fault. Your assertion actually makes it the customer's fault for not making it worth vendors' while to continuing to make certain content because at the end of the day vendors have bills to pay. Let's let that argument go.

Keep in mind there has been many vendors that have held out longer than others making content and the money they have coming in is less; so it seems those people that request that content is buying less of that content. If you want to have vendors making content you both have something the customer will start buying again and something that the vendors can use and make their jobs easier. In a lot of conversations I've had with poser vendors that have switched over, they all say that SM hasn't listened to any of their concerns or requests, taking the opinion of those that don't sell over those that do.. so if they find a company won't listen to them well they'll go to someone that actually has.

But Poser doesn't make content, and it doesn't control the people who do, and now you're saying SM shouldn't be listening to the people who buy that content. So who's left? And what do these people want from SM?

Seriously? If you want content made, it's probably best you listen to those that make it or you'll keep having threads like this. Your last two questions aren't for me to answer, but it shouldn't be to hard to contact the stores to see who those vendors are and get their input. And don't make that public to non-vendors so you can get a better answer. Besides if people want poser content made, same thing applies. But it makes sense since people feel it's the vendor's fault, that's reducing your pool as well since no one really cares what they think. ;)

You were the one who brought up what the vendors said they wanted, Terence. If you didn't already know, why bring it up?

EClark1894 posted at 3:02PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289244

You were the one who brought up what the vendors said they wanted, Terence. If you didn't already know, why bring it up?

No, I said vendor s aren't the blame for the subject of this thread. Stay on topic please. Besides taking a hostile attitude is not going to bring a solution to the OP's question either. If you want to know what they want, ask them for a change rather than blame them.

Male_M3dia posted at 3:20PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289246

EClark1894 posted at 3:02PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289244

You were the one who brought up what the vendors said they wanted, Terence. If you didn't already know, why bring it up?

No, I said vendor s aren't the blame for the subject of this thread. Stay on topic please. Besides taking a hostile attitude is not going to bring a solution to the OP's question either. If you want to know what they want, ask them for a change rather than blame them.

I am on topic. Here's the quote: "SM hasn't listened to any of their concerns or requests, taking the opinion of those that don't sell over those that do.. so if they find a company won't listen to them well they'll go to someone that actually has."

And I'm not hostile at all.

your make more money burning nuggets at MickyD's. then being a vender. being a vendor is just a hobby with some change to buy ya six pack with after a hard days work of burning nuggets. so I don't personally think it's worth WW3.

EClark1894 posted at 5:29PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289249

Male_M3dia posted at 3:20PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289246

EClark1894 posted at 3:02PM Mon, 07 November 2016 - #4289244

You were the one who brought up what the vendors said they wanted, Terence. If you didn't already know, why bring it up?

No, I said vendor s aren't the blame for the subject of this thread. Stay on topic please. Besides taking a hostile attitude is not going to bring a solution to the OP's question either. If you want to know what they want, ask them for a change rather than blame them.

I am on topic. Here's the quote: "SM hasn't listened to any of their concerns or requests, taking the opinion of those that don't sell over those that do.. so if they find a company won't listen to them well they'll go to someone that actually has."

And I'm not hostile at all.

That was ;)

Seriously that's what those vendors said. They didn't specify and I didn't press them as I'm not the one that needs to know. But the way this conversation headed is typical of how this discussion usually goes. Posts about blaming the vendors and rather than finding out what the issue is at the source people want to argue. That's not how you're going to get them back.

You got poser vendors making products for other software and a thread just last week about one closing their store here and starting to look at that software as well. You'd probably need to seriously asking yourself why that is. Those vendors aren't going to publicly state those issues with regular customers reading (we see how those convos go here), that's the private convo SM needs to find out if they care about the content made for their software.

You continuously telling me that I'm blaming the vendors doesn't actually prove that I'm blaming the vendors, you know. However, I do know the definition of insanity, so I'm gonna stop beating my head against this particular wall hoping for a different outcome.

Couldn't resist this. Flagged for wooden boobies. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68

I think this is a loaded question designed to mess with the heads of Poser users. The OP hasn't returned in 3 pages of this thread.

Don't be bamboozled.

quietrob posted at 1:25AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289315

I think this is a loaded question designed to mess with the heads of Poser users. The OP hasn't returned in 3 pages of this thread.

Don't be bamboozled.

Yes, all you have to do is use the requested poser only filters in store and you'll be fine.

EClark1894 posted at 1:30AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289293

You continuously telling me that I'm blaming the vendors doesn't actually prove that I'm blaming the vendors, you know. However, I do know the definition of insanity, so I'm gonna stop beating my head against this particular wall hoping for a different outcome.

No the definition is insanity is saying you didn't say something when I can pull the link that you did:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2907525&page_number=2#msg4289173

C'mon Earl if you can't have a proper discussion just simply not post anymore.

ghostship2 posted at 1:43AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289306

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68

That's EClark1894 n Male_M3dia fighting in the mud LOL

So for those who feel it's dying, what do you think would revive it, or rebuild your interest in Poser? Is it the tools or the content offered? Or both?

Just curious.

Male_M3dia posted at 5:28AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289318

EClark1894 posted at 1:30AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289293

You continuously telling me that I'm blaming the vendors doesn't actually prove that I'm blaming the vendors, you know. However, I do know the definition of insanity, so I'm gonna stop beating my head against this particular wall hoping for a different outcome.

No the definition is insanity is saying you didn't say something when I can pull the link that you did:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2907525&page_number=2#msg4289173

C'mon Earl if you can't have a proper discussion just simply not post anymore.

Oh come on, Terrence. I didn't say anything was anyone's fault. I was simply explaining how "supply and demand" works. Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. It's a concept you seem to have problem understanding.

quietrob posted at 9:17PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289315

I think this is a loaded question designed to mess with the heads of Poser users. The OP hasn't returned in 3 pages of this thread.

Don't be bamboozled.

Come on guys peace and love at Rendo. The bigger worry is that it took 3 pages for quietrob to pop in and mention this. I guess that is where the username come from.

AmbientShade posted at 1:48PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289329

So for those who feel it's dying, what do you think would revive it, or rebuild your interest in Poser? Is it the tools or the content offered? Or both?

Just curious.

Yes, both as I allways use to say. I'd like to have a standart set of high quality figures coming with my Poser app. And I'd like to see a significant progress in Poser's technology to achieve better figure joint bending.

-Timberwolf- posted at 9:05AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289339

Yes, both as I allways use to say. I'd like to have a standart set of high quality figures coming with my Poser app. And I'd like to see a significant progress in Poser's technology to achieve better figure joint bending.

Rigging definitely takes a lot of patience and time. And requires a fairly decent mesh to work with. Have you done much rigging in pp2014 or 11?

AmbientShade posted at 3:29PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289346

-Timberwolf- posted at 9:05AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289339

Yes, both as I allways use to say. I'd like to have a standart set of high quality figures coming with my Poser app. And I'd like to see a significant progress in Poser's technology to achieve better figure joint bending.

Rigging definitely takes a lot of patience and time. And requires a fairly decent mesh to work with. Have you done much rigging in pp2014 or 11?

some vendors do spent a lot of energy into rigging a Poser figure, with some nice results ( I think of Ali's BElla beta here). Given that, it apears disrespectful to me, that the default Poser figure developers obviousley don't put enough effort on creating their figures. I see a stock Poser figure as a show model to represent, what this latest version of Poser is capable of, so of course I just expect a high quality figure. Pauline has just been an impertinent slap in the face to the user, because of mesh-geometry, pose bending, basic shape appearence and morph presets issues. So how is your figures development going? I've bookmarked your page, because I really like, what you are doing on Venus and Orion.

-Timberwolf- posted at 9:05AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289339

Rigging definitely takes a lot of patience and time. And requires a fairly decent mesh to work with. Have you done much rigging in pp2014 or 11?

some vendors do spent a lot of energy into rigging a Poser figure, with some nice results ( I think of Ali's BElla beta here). Given that, it apears disrespectful to me, that the default Poser figure developers obviousley don't put enough effort on creating their figures. I see a stock Poser figure as a show model to represent, what this latest version of Poser is capable of, so of course I just expect a high quality figure. Pauline has just been an impertinent slap in the face to the user, because of mesh-geometry, pose bending, basic shape appearence and morph presets issues. So how is your figures development going? I've bookmarked your page, because I really like, what you are doing on Venus and Orion.

Yeah, I understand what you mean and agree that Poser definitely needs a showcase figure.

And thanks for the compliments and the bookmark. I'm hoping to update it soon, but they're coming along nicely and are a lot further developed than my blog posts show. I can say that Poser's rigging - while temperamental and frustrating at times - still deserves a lot more credit than it gets. Especially in Poser 11. The tools are much easier to work with. There are a number of things I'd like to see added still, but hopefully with time they will be.

AmbientShade posted at 7:04PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289358

-Timberwolf- posted at 9:05AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289339

Rigging definitely takes a lot of patience and time. And requires a fairly decent mesh to work with. Have you done much rigging in pp2014 or 11?

some vendors do spent a lot of energy into rigging a Poser figure, with some nice results ( I think of Ali's BElla beta here). Given that, it apears disrespectful to me, that the default Poser figure developers obviousley don't put enough effort on creating their figures. I see a stock Poser figure as a show model to represent, what this latest version of Poser is capable of, so of course I just expect a high quality figure. Pauline has just been an impertinent slap in the face to the user, because of mesh-geometry, pose bending, basic shape appearence and morph presets issues. So how is your figures development going? I've bookmarked your page, because I really like, what you are doing on Venus and Orion.

Yeah, I understand what you mean and agree that Poser definitely needs a showcase figure.

And thanks for the compliments and the bookmark. I'm hoping to update it soon, but they're coming along nicely and are a lot further developed than my blog posts show. I can say that Poser's rigging - while temperamental and frustrating at times - still deserves a lot more credit than it gets. Especially in Poser 11. The tools are much easier to work with. There are a number of things I'd like to see added still, but hopefully with time they will be.

Where is the "like"-button, when you need one? ;-)

a URL to AmbientShade characters would be helpful.

Even Max,Maya ,Blender ect ect is worthless without content to go with it. It's never been just Poser ,it was always Poser app n DAZ content.one was worthless with out the other. Poser needs a new content character provider. it's that simple.

RorrKonn posted at 4:55PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289383

a URL to AmbientShade characters would be helpful.

Even Max,Maya ,Blender ect ect is worthless without content to go with it.

Maybe, but Blender, Max & Maya are meant to make their OWN content.

EClark1894 posted at 5:54PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289392

RorrKonn posted at 4:55PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289383

a URL to AmbientShade characters would be helpful.

Even Max,Maya ,Blender ect ect is worthless without content to go with it.

Maybe, but Blender, Max & Maya are meant to make their OWN content.

Exactly n Poser can't make it's OWN content but all of Posers content is made with Max,Maya ,Blender ect ect.

So break out ya Max,Maya ,Blender ect ect.n make the next Poser's Vickys equivalent n build your DAZ equivalent Empire :)

Thanks Timberwolf.

The link is in my signature RorrKonn.

ambientshade.tumblr.com

If more people hit the 'follow' option on tumblr it would give me a better idea of who/how many folks are interested. But I should probably start posting some gallery images here too, to make it easier.

EClark1894 posted at 6:09PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289392

Maybe, but Blender, Max & Maya are meant to make their OWN content.

Blender does have a content market too, and there are a lot of sites that sell content for Max and Maya - most of TurboSquid's content is max/maya format. And I know of a few artists who sell their own content for Maya - TargetView is one that immediately comes into mind. I have his Chris II figure for Poser that he used to sell at rdna but now sells on his own site and is rigged for Maya.

Those programs focus more on tools to create your own content, but just because someone is a figure artist, or environment artist, etc., doesn't mean they're good at all the other aspects, or have time to make everything, and still benefit from buying other artists work to complete their projects. There is a lot of potential content even in Poser that seem to go unnoticed most of the time. Animation sets is a good example - something Poser stores are severely lacking in. Prebuilt scenes is another.

AmbientShade posted at 12:35PM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289329

So for those who feel it's dying, what do you think would revive it, or rebuild your interest in Poser? Is it the tools or the content offered? Or both?

Just curious.

Both. I don't feel it is dying, but my spending patterns have certainly changed and not for the betterment of either 'Rosity or the vendors that sell here. For the past 6 or 7 years, the vendors haven't been interested in anything but recycling the same type of products, over and over (and over and over).

Things SM can address (Poser tools): I'd like better memory management - I have 32Gb in my system, yet Poser slows to a crawl when I am doing crowd scenes (which is most of them). Poser gets balky at about 6Gb, for me. I don't know if this is a Poser issue or an OSX issue, but I would like it looked at.

Poser Pro 11 added a INJ creator. I'd like to see a REM creator to go with it. There is an interest in upgraded Hair Styling tools for the Hair room, and Animation tools also - I don't use either, but better tools could change that (Oh, and updated tutorials - most were made in the Poser 5 -7 timeframe & are a little confusing if the enduser isn't familiar with the old GUI).

Fix every single bug that Erogenesis has submitted. (This should be the #1 priority).

I don't think that Poser necessarily needs an equivalent of V4 Any Poser 9+ figure will do - but if one is needed, Project E would fit the bill.

Figure types that we are missing are kids. DAZ has done pretty well with that, but we're kinda hurting with SM figures on that front. (For those needing a quick fix - Colorcurvature's M4-K4 script will work with any Adult-Child pairing that use the same mesh (V4-K4, V3-Laura, M3-Luke, SP3-Laura, SP3-V3, etc.), Lyrra's Child and height dials are another great products, if you don't mind being limited to the Daz Gen 4 figures.)

For 3rd Party tools (via the Add on framework):

1. More figures added to Netherworks' Hair Control System (Dusk, Paul, & Pauline). And I would like to take this moment to whine (once again, sorry Netherworks) about the HCS modules he hasn't updated (Miki 2, Simon & Sydney) - I'd really, really like to retire my copy of Poser Pro 2008. Yeah, I use those figures - it's how I get around the All Caucasians, All The Time issue with vendor character creation. (That is called foreshadowing...)
2. More of Lyrra's Fitting Room magnets. If I was Nerd3D, I'd contract with her to make them for all of the SM figures (along with her child & height dials). This would address vendor's intransigence about making clothing and character content for any figure not named Victoria 4. That won't help vendors, but they are the ones that are painting themselves into a corner, not SM.

3rd Party Products: More figure support for Texture Transformer (Pauline and Paul for starters, or the ability for the enduser to add that support in TT.) Oh, and a separate Texture Transformer Manual would be nice also (BTW, when updating the Manual, for the love of Cthulhu, fully justify the text. Nothing says amateur quite like left justified text.)

Moving onto vendors and the content they make.

Let go of DOS, Poser 7, and it's associated workflow - you guys are about the only folks still using it. It is almost 2017 - I should not be dealing with material .pz2s, that was a hack for Poser 4. I would like to take this moment to remind everyone that material .mc6s are a REQUIREMENT to sell at 'Rosity. Get with the program already. Let the luddites pay for & use the .pz2 to .mc6 conversion utility.

stoprammingthefilenamestogether. All this does is ensure that Poser's search function (and the enduser) can't find your product. And while I am at it, would it kill you to give your product a rational name? Leading with MAT_ insures that I (and the Poser search engine) will never find your product - as does giving a material a leading number, instead of a color. Oh, and you vendors that make texture packs - PUT THE DAMNED THING IN THE BASE PRODUCT'S FILE STRUCTURE. Then we might be able to find your product a week after we purchased it.

Why did I mention the above? Because I calculate how much effort I will need to spend to get a vendor's product working in a Poser 9 or later workflow (And the fact that my runtimes total 673.36Gb of content - but I can quit anytime, I promise). If I have to go and rename 100+ material files (and convert them from .pz2 to .mc6 - Yes, I have done that once. Not doing it again), I am not buying your product - I don't give a damn how good the product is. 90% of the folks here are running Poser 9 or later - it isn't October 2007 anymore; get with the program.

Moving onto the actual content......

Characters - how about a little variety? 90% of every vendor's figures look like siblings. Do they really think we don't notice that they are using the same texture sets for multiple figures? How about changing more than the boob morphs while you are at it? And while I am at it, enough with the All Caucasians, all the time. I have enough to last me a lifetime, which is why I don't buy characters that much anymore. I need Asians, real Asians, not the Caucasianised versions we see here and at other storefronts - that means DARK eyes (How many native Blue-eyed Japanese females have you seen?), darker skin textures (for Malyasians, Filipinoes, Singaporeans, etc); Indians - from India, although more 1st Nations and Blacks would be good also (If Reciecup can make incredible black figures, why can't the rest of the vendors?). More characters over the age of 30. Most vendors have a Logan's Run view, and most of the characters look alike, regardless of the base mesh used.

Clothing - How about some normal clothing?

What kind of normal clothing? Stuff you could wear in a professional environment. Most clothing sold in the storefronts would get the wearer sent home. Winter clothing is also a neglected area. Not everyone in the Poserverse lives in Miami.

The clubwear niche is overflowing, as is the impractical armor category - Why should I buy your clubwear or impractical armor? What makes it better than the other 783,986,254 outfits sold in the storefronts?

Period clothing - Different eras had different clothing - Here's a hint - Most women in the '20's DIDN'T wear flapper dresses. Men in the '50's didn't dress like Fonzie.

Recommendation: Go visit the Victoria & Albert Museum website & look at the clothing from the '50's. There are a LOT of female outfits that would really sell well as dynamic. I would pay DAZ prices for this stuff.

While I am at it - I am sure there is a reason clothing vendors aren't willing to convert some of their V4 content to newer figures, but for the life of me, I can't think of what it could be. Go look at Dx30's shoe collection over at DAZ - a number of those shoes were originally made for P6 Jessi & Miki 1020 (I bought them a decade ago). If I can spend an afternoon and rework a V4 product for Sydney or Dawn, why can't a vendor - I figured it out, so it can't really be that hard. Enough of clothing.

Props: Housing - real housing, not the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous that is being sold here and elsewhere. Mid-century Bungalows, Ranches, Cape Cods, and Colonial Revivals. Extra hint - most of these were small houses 775 - 900 sq feet & had either 2 or 3 bedrooms and only 1 bathroom (Indoor plumbing didn't become standard until after WWI). And don't forget to add the curtains!

Recommendation: www.retrorenovation.com - lots of color swatches, home floor plans, etc. It will get your creative juices flowing.

For those vendors that are making DS content and want to tap into the Poser market. The easier you make it for us, the more products we'll buy. Spending an additional 5 minutes can generate more sales for you. I understand that expecting you to do the heavy lifting is a bridge too far. That's ok, we're Poser users, we have the tools and the documentation to do what you can't (or won't).

Recommendation: Learn how to make movement morphs for your clothing. We've had those in the Poserverse since at least the V3 era. That seems to be a lost art in the DSverse, and it is a major factor in me not investing more in DS content.

Recommendation: Talk to Paul Busey over at 3dartlive.com and ask him to develop a Web seminar on making movement morphs for clothing in DS (and Poser - the vendors here could also use it). He as been making a nifty series for content development in DS, and this is just one of the many areas that DS is behind Poser in. Moving onto our favorite - Poser Companion Files (PCF)s.

Learn where PCFs actually go. I have 1,022 packages of DS content from DAZ installed via the DIM. Not one product has all of the PCFs in the correct location. Not one. Don't be that vendor.

For your information:

.cm2s (Cameras) go in the CAMERA subfolder

.cr2s (Characters) go in the CHARACTERS subfolder

.fc2s (Expressions) go in the FACE subfolder

.hr2s (Hair) go in the HAIR subfolder

.hd2s (Hand poses) go in the HAND subfolder

.lt2s (Lights) go in the LIGHT subfolder

.mc6s (Materials) go in the MATERIALS subfolder

.pp2s (Props) go in the PROPS subfolder

.pz2 (Poses - this includes Head and Body morphs) go in the POSE subfolder. Materials do not belong here, btw - you don't have an excuse for making material .pz2 files, very few if any of you were around in the Poser 4 (or Poser 7) era.

Recommendation: Make your PCFs native Poser files. There is at least 1 vendor at DAZ doing it, so you don't have an excuse. If I can make them in 30 seconds or less, so can you - DSON has a number of limitations (mainly due to trying to run through the add-on framework - Python is a light weight scripting language and the 64-bit version isn't getting all that far along). Your goal should be to use DSON as little as possible - that 2Gb per process limit for Python is a real one, especially with vendors using 8,196 x 8,196 texture files - which is pointless, btw.

AmbientShade posted at 12:35PM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289329

So for those who feel it's dying, what do you think would revive it, or rebuild your interest in Poser? Is it the tools or the content offered? Or both?

Just curious.

For myself, the Poser business model and its development direction is at the core of my issues with the platform. SM's Poser seems to be squarely aimed at selling boxes to the niche tinkerer and the nostalgic hobbyists, and seems to have left a lot of the broader market sector neglected or left those facets of the software underdeveloped for unknown reasons. Their business strategy directly affects any professional content creator and in turn the user base of the platform that would like to see new content continue to be released. The current direction has firmly established it as the end product in a consumer cycle which makes it very difficult for content developers to leverage as the key to opening the door to a 3rd party end user product market. The purchasers of Poser are the direct target market for SM and any 3rd party or aftermarket content markets are simply an after thought for them and are somewhat excluded from Posers development cycle, even though content developers are also a significant base of Poser purchasers. These factors have the effect of leaving vendors and professional content creators for Poser 3rd party products in a rather exposed and isolated position. (@Rorr: If you think some of the top vendors in this market sector would earn more flipping burgers, you may need to check your sources as I can tell you this is far from correct...)

What this has come to mean is that any professional content developers are taking a fairly big risk if they do choose to 'partner' or continue to 'partner' with SM and Poser exclusively for their content development in the long term. Some core issues are becoming more and more apparent. for example just finding simple answers to basic questions like how many people truly know the direction that SM's Poser is heading? What guarantees and solid foundations if any are SM willing to provide for professional content developers in both the platform and in the content market? Does SM see an interest in helping to secure their roles in content development and in securing the futures of their small businesses? Who really knows the current size of the market pool of Poser purchasers out there?

Over and over we are told that Poser is the best platform for content development mainly from a small group of long term users, but the actual user base message is somewhat different in most forums, more like "You need to understand the different ways that Poser is broken, so you don't fall into any of those many known pitfalls along the way when you create something." Even high interest projects are often put on hold while appeals are made directly to SM for Poser to be fixed in some capacity that has brought the project to a halt. This is meant to be a good base for content development? Seems like a rather large risk to me, given the frequency of these events.

For content creators attempting to assess the market share of the Poser user baser, it can be extremely difficult and tends to come down to a small amount of data sets that do more often than not reflect badly for Poser, especially when the main provision of counter argument comes from a rather small amount of peoples who continue to claim that there is a huge hidden iceberg of users out there, but with no actual data to prove it. When looking at the across the various forums which address Poser, which in itself could be considered as symptomatic to the health of the platform, one word tends to comes to mind and that is slow and closely knitted. The amount of traffic and activity on all of these Poser forums seems to flow forth at a rather sedate pace these days. Some of these forums are lucky to see more than a few posts a day. I've really found nowhere that screams this is big, this is thriving, jump on board! Even the Smith Micro Official Poser forum is rather quite with just a few posts a day. This tends to send off alarm bells for anyone looking at developing 3rd party content for that platform. Maybe someone more in the know can direct me to where I can see more clearly this hidden iceberg of Poser users? Or is this theory more of just a cosmic teapot kind of thing?

But by far the most detrimental factor for Poser usage for me, is the lack of a solid in house, market competitive professional figure. As 3rd party content development quite often tends to follow the pattern of the horse and rider product model. This means that there are generally speaking a few obvious 3rd party product types, the first being: The horse (The actual figure base) then products directly for the horse (Characters,morphs, textures, Poses) or content that rides the horse (Clothing, hand props etc) or the third item which is somewhere for the horse to romp (Environments). For a third party developer, the market take up of the metaphoric horse product is the benchmark to base their own sales projections on. Unless of course they want to create their own horse, which is a commercial project that even the most top tier of content developers generally shy away from. The core of the problem is that SM doesn't even truly have a horse in the race these days as far as a professional 3D human figure bases go, leaving content development for the platform somewhat stifled. This prolonged scenario doesn't particularly work well for many potential Poser users but mostly impacts on professional content creators. There is also a group that doesn't have an issue with this 'problem' and may consider it actually as a good thing for the Poser platform. This group is made up by the users that enjoy using Poser to create their own amateur figure offerings or have a strong nostalgia factor for older tech/figures/content that they own. It seems that this group is truly the current core target market of the SM business model for Poser. A new tech figure is hardly their priority and maybe even seen as a threat to many in this group that SM seem to be prioritising as the buyer group for the Poser platform.

When you look at the current development cycles you can clearly see that this group is seen as their most important market sector and is the key focus for future development. Prioritising the protection of these users legacy content has overtaken the need to keep up with market innovation and keep poser moving forward tech wise. With Cycles being the obvious anomaly. This direction has led to things like Genesis 3 needing to be put through a meat grinder to finally land in Poser somewhat incomplete. Keeping the old compatible is clearly more important than making Poser compatible with the new. This, with time, can lead to a limiting of the market demographic that Poser is the best option for, also limiting its shelf appeal for new users due to its dated content. But is mainly a big negative for professional 3rd party developers interests in the platform. There really is no denying anymore, that regardless of the health of Poser, the 3rd party market for Poser content is suffering and shrinking as a whole. And also that there is a group that have no issue with that continuing to progress, as its seen as not directly effecting them in any way.

Poser's competition has more and more been moving into filling the other aspects of the market that Poser seems to of moved out from or has left neglected over a longer period of time. This leads to the question of, if Poser is no longer a staging platform for professional modern content with user orientated content tools, What is it? Who are its user base? Who are not its user base? Is the user base primarily legacy/inbuilt content users who do not really need 3rd party content anymore or does the current user base want to see new innovation and content developed for the Platform? If it's the later why is that buyer base seemingly shrinking in its purchasing across the markets? If Poser is the best platform for making content where is that content? And in the longer term is the current target Poser software/upgrade buyer base large enough to continue to see the platform viably developed into the future? Will this purchaser base grow or decline if the current path is sustained?

So if you find yourself within this group that does see Poser as primarily a vehicle for your large existing content hoard or if you prefer dealing mainly with the quirks of figure development within the platform. Then I'm sure there is no apparent issue with Posers health for you. There is no reason as to why this kind usage of Poser will be effected for the foreseeable future.

For me the question is no longer is "Is Poser is dying?" It's 'how useful is Poser to me?". And the answer I have unfortunately arrived at is, that it really isn't. And I guess that ultimately will be the decision, that for each individual, will decide the future of the platform.

Maybe you haven't used poser for a long while now I suspect. I still love the software! It's easy to use and makes nice pictures. I have tried DS but I prefer poser.

Razor42 posted at 7:19AM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289425

But by far the most detrimental factor for Poser usage for me, is the lack of a solid in house, market competitive professional figure. As 3rd party content development quite often tends to follow the pattern of the horse and rider product model. This means that there are generally speaking a few obvious 3rd party product types, the first being: The horse (The actual figure base) then products directly for the horse (Characters,morphs, textures, Poses) or content that rides the horse (Clothing, hand props etc) or the third item which is somewhere for the horse to romp (Environments). For a third party developer, the market take up of the metaphoric horse product is the benchmark to base their own sales projections on. Unless of course they want to create their own horse, which is a commercial project that even the most top tier of content developers generally shy away from. The core of the problem is that SM doesn't even truly have a horse in the race these days as far as a professional 3D human figure bases go, leaving content development for the platform somewhat stifled. This prolonged scenario doesn't particularly work well for many potential Poser users but mostly impacts on professional content creators. There is also a group that doesn't have an issue with this 'problem' and may consider it actually as a good thing for the Poser platform. This group is made up by the users that enjoy using Poser to create their own amateur figure offerings or have a strong nostalgia factor for older tech/figures/content that they own. It seems that this group is truly the current core target market of the SM business model for Poser. A new tech figure is hardly their priority and maybe even seen as a threat to many in this group that SM seem to be prioritising as the buyer group for the Poser platform.

When you look at the current development cycles you can clearly see that this group is seen as their most important market sector and is the key focus for future development. Prioritising the protection of these users legacy content has overtaken the need to keep up with market innovation and keep poser moving forward tech wise. With Cycles being the obvious anomaly. This direction has led to things like Genesis 3 needing to be put through a meat grinder to finally land in Poser somewhat incomplete. Keeping the old compatible is clearly more important than making Poser compatible with the new. This, with time, can lead to a limiting of the market demographic that Poser is the best option for, also limiting its shelf appeal for new users due to its dated content. But is mainly a big negative for professional 3rd party developers interests in the platform. There really is no denying anymore, that regardless of the health of Poser, the 3rd party market for Poser content is suffering and shrinking as a whole. And also that there is a group that have no issue with that continuing to progress, as its seen as not directly effecting them in any way.

Poser's competition has more and more been moving into filling the other aspects of the market that Poser seems to of moved out from or has left neglected over a longer period of time. This leads to the question of, if Poser is no longer a staging platform for professional modern content with user orientated content tools, What is it? Who are its user base? Who are not its user base? Is the user base primarily legacy/inbuilt content users who do not really need 3rd party content anymore or does the current user base want to see new innovation and content developed for the Platform? If it's the later why is that buyer base seemingly shrinking in its purchasing across the markets? If Poser is the best platform for making content where is that content? And in the longer term is the current target Poser software/upgrade buyer base large enough to continue to see the platform viably developed into the future? Will this purchaser base grow or decline if the current path is sustained?

So if you find yourself within this group that does see Poser as primarily a vehicle for your large existing content hoard or if you prefer dealing mainly with the quirks of figure development within the platform. Then I'm sure there is no apparent issue with Posers health for you. There is no reason as to why this kind usage of Poser will be effected for the foreseeable future.

For me the question is no longer is "Is Poser is dying?" It's 'how useful is Poser to me?". And the answer I have unfortunately arrived at is, that it really isn't. And I guess that ultimately will be the decision, that for each individual, will decide the future of the platform.

Problem is that Poser has NEVER had what you would call a " solid in house, market competitive professional figure." Never. Not once in the whole 20 years it's been in production. It's always counted on 3rd party content developers for it's content. And that's where stores like DAZ and Renderosity entered the picture. SM has always been about software and features, so it's never considered the figure to be a feature. It's always been content to them.

I actually agree with Razor's analysis about Poser's business model, although, not quite for the same reason. As long as those brokerages, and content developers didn't overreach and stayed in their own little symbiotic relationship with Poser, everyone got along hunky dory. I don't know who overreached first, DAZ or Poser, but one of them did. Let's assume, as Chris Creek told it, that it was Poser that over reached first. They opened Content Paradise. DAZ got nervous and began to develop it's own contingency plans and Studio was born. And that's where Poser made it's first (or second, depending on who you believe) misstep. They backed off and tried to put the genie back in the symbiotic bottle. But that bottle was cracked now and wasn't going to work anymore.

Razor42 posted at 12:19PM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289425

(@Rorr: If you think some of the top vendors in this market sector would earn more flipping burgers, you may need to check your sources as I can tell you this is far from correct...)

Well for about as long as Posers been around I've been asking about vendors income. Most won't say but the very very few ,That was nice enough to talked to me about it. Considered there vendor income as a little extra cash ,not enough to pay bills n to survive on. There where a vendor mostly for the fun of it.

How many top Vendors make $20,000 or more a year ? it's what you would make burning burgers.

How many top Vendors make $50,000 or more a year ? it's what fast food mgrs. make.

How many top Vendors make $100,000 or more a year ? it's what mgrs. make at restaurants like Fridays RubyTuesday Chili's etc etc

Have look there,few years back I've started to make music,many people preferred to use for making music Fruity Loops or anything which has have VSTi support,there has been lots of SW which you can use and,some has been free and some has been very expensive without the questions,then come Propellerheads Reason and I loved that SW,I bought first and then I upgraded to next and next,right now I'm on Reason 9,many people doomed Reason will fail and will die because didn't supported VSTi from start and still with version 9 don't support or don't use VSTi

I see same situation right now with Poser,when Poser don't use or support DUF or is not willing to support Genesis as their native figure(I mean no PCF),if Poser is doomed without the Genesis,I don't know

Thanks,Jura

RorrKonn posted at 11:39AM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289466

Razor42 posted at 12:19PM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289425

(@Rorr: If you think some of the top vendors in this market sector would earn more flipping burgers, you may need to check your sources as I can tell you this is far from correct...)

Well for about as long as Posers been around I've been asking about vendors income. Most won't say but the very very few ,That was nice enough to talked to me about it. Considered there vendor income as a little extra cash ,not enough to pay bills n to survive on. There where a vendor mostly for the fun of it.

How many top Vendors make $20,000 or more a year ? it's what you would make burning burgers.

How many top Vendors make $50,000 or more a year ? it's what fast food mgrs. make.

How many top Vendors make $100,000 or more a year ? it's what mgrs. make at restaurants like Fridays RubyTuesday Chili's etc etc

As in any industry, the range in content creative types and their associated incomes is very diverse. And you're right that many vendors, especially those that are just starting off, see content creation as more of a hobby or a way to earn a little extra cash doing something that they enjoy, that can support the cost of their hobby along the way. I wouldn't describe this group as the top vendors though, but more as the amateur vendor sector. There has definitely been some strong growth among some areas of the industry in the field of professional content creation over the last few years. And by "Professional" I am meaning a content creator that sees creating content as their main source of income and as a full time job, more often than not creating for a variety of platforms and not just a single point.

Just to put those numbers you have provided into context the average income of a U.S. prostitute is around $290,000 per year. Maybe most of us would be better off working as prostitutes, if we were to follow your logic?

To look purely from a financial perspective does tends to miss a lot of the added benefits and perks of working in the content creation industry as a whole. And financially speaking, I'm not saying it is easy money, nor is it a perfect fit for everyone, but there still are a lot of opportunities available for those that do have the dedication, perseverance and the base skills required to give it a go. I would say that most professional content creators incomes would place them well within the the top 40% of non-employer small business's income sets, which makes it a fairly healthy small business industry. I do hesitate to pin down exact numbers as the figures do depend quite a bit based on a variety of key factors among the individual creator and their choices within the industry. Some other benefits in choosing to focus in content creation are that it is purely a skill based industry with low entry costs and probably has more in common with Video Game creation or even the music industry than it does with the hospitality industry. The skills required for being a successful content creator can also be a direct pathway through to the broader computer graphics industry with top creatives often doing side projects or taking tangent paths into the much larger video game or movie industries.

For me personally, let's just say I have no interest in managing any kind of food venture in the near future.

RorrKonn posted at 9:27PM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289466

Razor42 posted at 12:19PM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289425

(@Rorr: If you think some of the top vendors in this market sector would earn more flipping burgers, you may need to check your sources as I can tell you this is far from correct...)

Well for about as long as Posers been around I've been asking about vendors income. Most won't say but the very very few ,That was nice enough to talked to me about it. Considered there vendor income as a little extra cash ,not enough to pay bills n to survive on. There where a vendor mostly for the fun of it.

How many top Vendors make $20,000 or more a year ? it's what you would make burning burgers.

How many top Vendors make $50,000 or more a year ? it's what fast food mgrs. make.

How many top Vendors make $100,000 or more a year ? it's what mgrs. make at restaurants like Fridays RubyTuesday Chili's etc etc

I don't know what part of the US you live in but those numbers are extremely inflated compared to the national average. Fast food managers typically make about $8 to $10 an hour, nationally. General workers make minimum wage or a bit higher ($7-$8/hr, or $16K, before taxes) and restaurant managers typically make somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 - $50K unless you're managing some high end restaurant in the upper class areas and even then its doubtful you'll ever see anywhere near $100K annually even before taxes, not including bonuses.

Meanwhile, the median salary of a 3D generalist or animator with 3 to 5 years experience is around $50 to $60K nationally, and it is not uncommon for many of them to break $100K, depending on what areas they specialize in, whether they're freelance or in-house, and what area of the country they're in.

ETA: That doesn't mean this is normal income for a DS/Poser specific artist, though I'm sure some of them get close or have the potential to.

I think most of the bugs erogenesis mentioned were fixed a couple SRs back, from what I've read. I don't think I've run into any of them while developing my own figures (except for possibly one), so I'm not really sure what all they entailed. In my case I was able to correct the issue on my own but still filed it in mantis.

The core of the problem is that SM doesn't even truly have a horse in the race these days as far as a professional 3D human figure bases go, leaving content development for the platform somewhat stifled.

Poser is an open platform available to anyone that is willing to take the time to learn the toolset and create what they want. Why do creators need to be boxed in to a specific set of criteria or tools in order for their work to have value?

This leads to the question of, if Poser is no longer a staging platform for professional modern content with user orientated content tools, What is it?

What gives you the impression that it is not "a staging platform for professional modern content with user orientated content tools" ? As a content creator, I can say first hand that Poser provides the tools necessary to create that modern content. Like any software, or pencil or jar of paint, Poser is a tool. It's the user's responsibility to provide the talent and creative vision. There is no "make art" button in Poser, or any other software.

If Poser is the best platform for making content where is that content?

All over the internet, and in every store that sells Poser or DS content. Poser is not a closed system. It's not that difficult to convert most any content for any platform for use in Poser. It doesn't require a college degree, just a desire to do so. Some might be a bit more involved than others but it's possible as long as that content can be converted to one of several formats that Poser can import. And Poser may not necessarily be "the best platform for making content" but it's certainly not the worst either. Some people prefer it over other software while other people prefer other software over it. All of that is subjective and up to the end user. But you can't just look at the stores or the forums for measurement of Poser's sustained usefulness or interest because there is no way to accurately measure how many people are buying DS content or content from CGTrader or Turbosquid or even Blender and converting it to Poser on their own. You also can't accurately measure how many people are building and/or modifying their existing content to their own specific needs, and really that is what every Poser figure has always been intended for. But you can find plenty of examples of it all over the internet if you just spend a little time looking. And you can find examples of how Poser is being used in various mediums, from comic books to film and product marketing. Its usefulness and validity extends a lot further than how many content vendors are still making Poser specific content.

How many threads have we seen and continue to see, asking how to convert genesis to Poser? If Poser was losing popularity among the end users then they wouldn't be asking this question over and over. If you want exact sales figures of the software then you'll have to ask Smith Micro. I don't think they publish those numbers anywhere, but if the sales were as tanked as some would like us to believe then Poser would have either been sold off, redesigned or shelved by now. Instead they continue issuing updates to it on a fairly consistent basis, so their sales must still be high enough for them to justify doing so, which tells me that their longevity is not as dependent on an in-house work horse figure as you and others seem to think. I'm not saying that having that in-house figure wouldn't be a significant benefit to the software and the user base, if it was designed well and was well received, but there are drawbacks to that business model too. The software and the content have always remained separate entities for the most part and by keeping it that way it allows for more diversity as well as the ability for most any artists out there to build their own brand on the platform.

I think what's most important is that content artists focus on building their own brand and their own audience, regardless of what platform(s) they choose to host or focus their brand on, and most importantly learn how to market themselves. Nothing wrong with building support content, obviously, but why is that regarded as being the only path to success for a content artist? Where is the freedom in that? There are artists out there that build for any number of platforms and manage to make a comfortable living doing their own thing. This seems to be a mindset that only exists within the Poser-verse and personally I find it extremely self-limiting and depressing, and is really the root of why we aren't seeing more Poser content offered in the stores lately. It's definitely not because Poser doesn't provide the toolset you need to create almost anything you want, and to say that it doesn't simply means you haven't taken the time to fully learn the software's development tools. So many content artists have some irrational phobia of social media that only serves to hinder their own efforts. Relying on whatever brokerage you're selling through to do all or most of your marketing for you isn't the answer anymore. I'm not trying to insult anyone here but the way I see it is that if an illustrator on youtube can make over $20K a month just drawing fan art - not even selling anything - then a competent Poser content artist can find a lucrative market for their work, in some form or another, and anything less is just an excuse for not putting in the effort it takes to be successful.

IMHO, Poser will continue to live as long as enough people continue to support it with content, we all continue to help each other learn and grow as artists and creators and we keep having fun using it.

I think the biggest issue is not having flagship figure that builds upon the types of things that made the Victoria line of figures compelling for creators and users. It should also build on Poser's feature set and strengths. Attractive or even neutrally attractive, decent bending, good topology, symmetrical, clean internals without a lot of extraneous things, maps without burnt in things like shadows that have FF and SF material presets. There are a lot of fine details we could go over but it might be pages long. Yes, we can still use Victoria but really Poser should not be dependent on a 3rd party figure. It's not about DAZ, it's about a dependency where you don't control the pricing, marketing or outcome. Do I hate Pauline/Paul? No. Do I think it's optimal enough to be embraced by creators and users? Honestly, no. This isn't against 3rd party figures at all but they should be squarely auxillary - this obvioulsy isn't how things have gone but really it's the direction where things need to be going. Furthermore, any flagship figure for Poser requires the continued support of the originator in terms of addition, even if that means purchasable content. But you've got to get the figure optimal first.

I still think Poser will continue on without a lead figure that folks are drawn to, but it's going to have a much, much harder road. Frankly, it's been on that road for several versions now.

What I got from this 2002 report was ,well not much help.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-small-business/2009/04/06/are-nonemployer-businesses-really-entrepreneurial

but from what I'm getting is DAZ Poser Top Vendors can get up to $35,000 to $40,000 a year.

It's a long story but I'm currently living in Hillbilly Land but I'm from Ga. bumbed around Atlanta n a few other cities.

Maybe the very top 5% prostitutes make $290,000.for a few years but not for long.

Pimps take all the girls money so they make nothing. They end up owing the Pimps for the drugs. the odds of them living to 20 are slim to none.

Brothels get a large % so the girls don't make much. there end up owing for drugs also. they have short careers , 50 50 change at living past 20 but can't say it looks to be a promising life.

I can't talk like suits but Bikers ,hookers ,stripbars I know about. I wouldn't advice hooken or restaurants ,but every one knows what ya talking about when you say mickyD's

AmbientShade posted at 2:52AM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289526>

is that if an illustrator on youtube can make over $20K a month just drawing fan art - not even selling anything.

Hows he making $20K a month ? Adds ?

He's youtube link ?

@RorrKonn Best advice would be to stick with creating content for Poser and give the prostitution a miss.

After recent medical stuff I've been through, I can confirm I'd make a lousy prostitute. I have a very pronounced gag reflex and I clench. :D

@SamTherapy Would you like me to add the language tag to your comment? Even though technically it is not offensive language both our comments are pretty ordinary on the theme for such a fine thread.

SamTherapy posted at 4:24PM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289546

After recent medical stuff I've been through, I can confirm I'd make a lousy prostitute. I have a very pronounced gag reflex and I clench. :D

ROTFLMAO!!!!

lol...god almighty....hahaha. Thanks for the laugh...and the cry LOL.

Laurie

LPR001 posted at 9:31PM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289552

@SamTherapy Would you like me to add the language tag to your comment? Even though technically it is not offensive language both our comments are pretty ordinary on the theme for such a fine thread.

If you feel it's necessary, go ahead. I have no problems either way.

SamTherapy posted at 7:04PM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289546

After recent medical stuff I've been through, I can confirm I'd make a lousy prostitute. I have a very pronounced gag reflex and I clench. :D

I was going to suggest a lube of some kind but it dawns on me we may not be talking about the same thing.