AmbientShade posted at 10:27PM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289526

What gives you the impression that it is not "a staging platform for professional modern content with user orientated content tools" ? As a content creator, I can say first hand that Poser provides the tools necessary to create that modern content. Like any software, or pencil or jar of paint, Poser is a tool. It's the user's responsibility to provide the talent and creative vision. There is no "make art" button in Poser, or any other software.

Sure there is. There has been a "Make Art" button in Poser years.

Truth is though that I concur completely with the rest of your statement. I've been using Poser for nigh on 20 years, both to create content or to use in a pipeline to other software. I use Poser to send animated figures and animals into Vue since Vue 9. I send Poser work into Unreal and other game engines.

My Poser work has been ported to a number of other software suites and I use other software like Blender and zBrush to bring assets into Poser for morphs or render. Just wish there was a good shadow catcher for Superfly.

Poser isn't dying as some seem to wish; it is just being used by more than only content consumers wanting to do another still beauty shot.

I left this forum a couple of years back due to the software wars, crappy search, and lack of notifications. I thought I would give it another shot a few months back. My mistake. It seems that everyone still wants a Vicky in their Runtime and the newer the better. Granted everyone does not have AmbientShade's touch to build organic models but of their own, but I have no problem using the Morph Brush, Face Room, Dynamics and Hair in Poser. That takes me away from the need to give all my hard earned cash to a third party and that to me should be a more accurate question. "Do you purchase much content for Poser; and if so what type?'' Not everyone rolls their own, but not everyone wants a pre-rolled supermodel figure either.

parkdalegardener posted at 9:10AM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289679

AmbientShade posted at 10:27PM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289526

What gives you the impression that it is not "a staging platform for professional modern content with user orientated content tools" ? As a content creator, I can say first hand that Poser provides the tools necessary to create that modern content. Like any software, or pencil or jar of paint, Poser is a tool. It's the user's responsibility to provide the talent and creative vision. There is no "make art" button in Poser, or any other software.

Sure there is. There has been a "Make Art" button in Poser years.

Truth is though that I concur completely with the rest of your statement. I've been using Poser for nigh on 20 years, both to create content or to use in a pipeline to other software. I use Poser to send animated figures and animals into Vue since Vue 9. I send Poser work into Unreal and other game engines.

My Poser work has been ported to a number of other software suites and I use other software like Blender and zBrush to bring assets into Poser for morphs or render. Just wish there was a good shadow catcher for Superfly.

Poser isn't dying as some seem to wish; it is just being used by more than only content consumers wanting to do another still beauty shot.

I left this forum a couple of years back due to the software wars, crappy search, and lack of notifications. I thought I would give it another shot a few months back. My mistake. It seems that everyone still wants a Vicky in their Runtime and the newer the better. Granted everyone does not have AmbientShade's touch to build organic models but of their own, but I have no problem using the Morph Brush, Face Room, Dynamics and Hair in Poser. That takes me away from the need to give all my hard earned cash to a third party and that to me should be a more accurate question. "Do you purchase much content for Poser; and if so what type?'' Not everyone rolls their own, but not everyone wants a pre-rolled supermodel figure either.

you may have seen the Blender Cycles roadmap video: They mention the Poser dev team's involvment in Cycles development and say that there is a shadow catcher in the works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxubLUVDJQ

At present many more people use Daz Studio than Poser. It's free. What would you expect. If you look at the Reality PBR web site, you will see that there are 5 times as many posts from Studio users than Poser users, and that despite Daz Studio having an in built PBR app for quite some time now. Poser users have been content to use V4 and the huge legacy content designed for her. Daz users have had to buy genesis, then Genesis 2 then Genesis 3 and with each release a regurgitation of the same clothes. How many vendors produce Gen 2 products now ? Daz users probably end up paying more than Poser users. However, that doesn't matter. Sex sells, and V7 is far sexier than any Poser figure. Don't get me started about Pauline.

If you are going to attract new users to Poser, you need to offer at least the same access to state of the art figures.

Superfly is starting to get there, and if the next Poser can include shadow catching and instancing that will be attractive. However Poser cannot continue to rely on a 10 year old figure. It desperately needs a decent figure. SM seem completely incapable of producing one. Hopefully Erogenesis will finally complete his figure in 2017 and there will be a decent competitor to V7.

qaz posted at 9:17PM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289780

At present many more people use Daz Studio than Poser. It's free. What would you expect. If you look at the Reality PBR web site, you will see that there are 5 times as many posts from Studio users than Poser users, and that despite Daz Studio having an in built PBR app for quite some time now. Poser users have been content to use V4 and the huge legacy content designed for her. Daz users have had to buy genesis, then Genesis 2 then Genesis 3 and with each release a regurgitation of the same clothes. How many vendors produce Gen 2 products now ? Daz users probably end up paying more than Poser users. However, that doesn't matter. Sex sells, and V7 is far sexier than any Poser figure. Don't get me started about Pauline.

If you are going to attract new users to Poser, you need to offer at least the same access to state of the art figures.

Superfly is starting to get there, and if the next Poser can include shadow catching and instancing that will be attractive. However Poser cannot continue to rely on a 10 year old figure. It desperately needs a decent figure. SM seem completely incapable of producing one. Hopefully Erogenesis will finally complete his figure in 2017 and there will be a decent competitor to V7.

What makes you think people would buy Poser if the "state of the art figure" was actually included

But what is a "decent" figure? Everyone has a different view on that. My definition of a decent figure is one that is realistically proportioned and realistically sized. DAZ figures are freak shows with literally inhuman proportions. Go look at the size of the eyes - there is literally no place to put the brain. Look at the armpits - the same problems with V2 are in V7. That torso? Please. It is why my go to figures are the SM G2 figures - I don't give a rat's ass how they bend, because they keep their clothes on.

There are a lot of folks here that simply will not accept any figure that wasn't made by DAZ. Never in a million years would they apply the standards they give for rejecting a non-DAZ figure to any of the Vickeys.

Many others want everything handed to them, and are aggressively unwilling to spend 5 minutes of their time to adjust anything. They don't want to RTFM and figure anything out for themselves.

That being said - Project E could fit the bill.

ssgbryan posted at 10:40PM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289783

qaz posted at 9:17PM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289780

At present many more people use Daz Studio than Poser. It's free. What would you expect. If you look at the Reality PBR web site, you will see that there are 5 times as many posts from Studio users than Poser users, and that despite Daz Studio having an in built PBR app for quite some time now. Poser users have been content to use V4 and the huge legacy content designed for her. Daz users have had to buy genesis, then Genesis 2 then Genesis 3 and with each release a regurgitation of the same clothes. How many vendors produce Gen 2 products now ? Daz users probably end up paying more than Poser users. However, that doesn't matter. Sex sells, and V7 is far sexier than any Poser figure. Don't get me started about Pauline.

If you are going to attract new users to Poser, you need to offer at least the same access to state of the art figures.

Superfly is starting to get there, and if the next Poser can include shadow catching and instancing that will be attractive. However Poser cannot continue to rely on a 10 year old figure. It desperately needs a decent figure. SM seem completely incapable of producing one. Hopefully Erogenesis will finally complete his figure in 2017 and there will be a decent competitor to V7.

What makes you think people would buy Poser if the "state of the art figure" was actually included

But what is a "decent" figure? Everyone has a different view on that. My definition of a decent figure is one that is realistically proportioned and realistically sized. DAZ figures are freak shows with literally inhuman proportions. Go look at the size of the eyes - there is literally no place to put the brain. Look at the armpits - the same problems with V2 are in V7. That torso? Please. It is why my go to figures are the SM G2 figures - I don't give a rat's ass how they bend, because they keep their clothes on.

There are a lot of folks here that simply will not accept any figure that wasn't made by DAZ. Never in a million years would they apply the standards they give for rejecting a non-DAZ figure to any of the Vickeys.

Many others want everything handed to them, and are aggressively unwilling to spend 5 minutes of their time to adjust anything. They don't want to RTFM and figure anything out for themselves.

That being said - Project E could fit the bill.

"What makes you think people would buy Poser if the "state of the art figure" was actually included" If it does/has things V7 can't, and it's free. But of course bottom line, they sure as heck wont if Poser doesn't have that. The figure itself isn't enough, but if it is well supported and some decent morphs are produced, then you are off the ground. For instance I have had people begging me to release a particular morph I did a few years ago. What if that and others were only available for a Poser figure ?

Male_M3dia posted at 10:06PM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289317

quietrob posted at 1:25AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289315

I think this is a loaded question designed to mess with the heads of Poser users. The OP hasn't returned in 3 pages of this thread.

Don't be bamboozled.

Yes, all you have to do is use the requested poser only filters in store and you'll be fine.

@Male Media
I think you have my comment confused with another thread or American English isn't your first language. It's now up to Four pages and the OP is most likely still laughing. Pity. I think the laugh is on him. There has been a lot of intelligent and useful information. There has been some food for thought and a nice debate with jokes thrown in for good measure.

One thing about being a successful vendor. I think you like your boss. Nothing beats working for yourself.

quietrob posted at 8:23AM Sat, 12 November 2016 - #4289788

Male_M3dia posted at 10:06PM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289317

quietrob posted at 1:25AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289315

I think this is a loaded question designed to mess with the heads of Poser users. The OP hasn't returned in 3 pages of this thread.

Don't be bamboozled.

Yes, all you have to do is use the requested poser only filters in store and you'll be fine.

@Male Media
I think you have my comment confused with another thread or American English isn't your first language. It's now up to Four pages and the OP is most likely still laughing. Pity. I think the laugh is on him. There has been a lot of intelligent and useful information. There has been some food for thought and a nice debate with jokes thrown in for good measure.

One thing about being a successful vendor. I think you like your boss. Nothing beats working for yourself.

No it was for you, no confusion there. I just don't think you actually got it. That's ok ;)

Also I'm wondering how you even know what a successful vendor is since you don't have a store. I still have 2 stores, nothing like the extra income. Main job gives me the insurance and the international travel though. Not giving that up. ;)

Male_M3dia posted at 6:06AM Sat, 12 November 2016 - #4289808

quietrob posted at 8:23AM Sat, 12 November 2016 - #4289788

Male_M3dia posted at 10:06PM Fri, 11 November 2016 - #4289317

quietrob posted at 1:25AM Tue, 08 November 2016 - #4289315

I think this is a loaded question designed to mess with the heads of Poser users. The OP hasn't returned in 3 pages of this thread.

Don't be bamboozled.

Yes, all you have to do is use the requested poser only filters in store and you'll be fine.

@Male Media
I think you have my comment confused with another thread or American English isn't your first language. It's now up to Four pages and the OP is most likely still laughing. Pity. I think the laugh is on him. There has been a lot of intelligent and useful information. There has been some food for thought and a nice debate with jokes thrown in for good measure.

One thing about being a successful vendor. I think you like your boss. Nothing beats working for yourself.

No it was for you, no confusion there. I just don't think you actually got it. That's ok ;)

Also I'm wondering how you even know what a successful vendor is since you don't have a store. I still have 2 stores, nothing like the extra income. Main job gives me the insurance and the international travel though. Not giving that up. ;)

In order. What does using the Poser Filter on the store have anything to do with my comment? Explain.

Next, I don't need to have a store here to know that what a successful vendor feels, in working for themselves. Whether it is for extra income or their main income. My last sentence is still true. Nothing beats working for yourself. I never mentioned your main job or whether you should give it up.

Lastly, though it's not needed. Every month Renderosity picks out a vendor and gives them an award. I would say that makes them a successful vendor and I still don't have a store.

quietrob posted at 9:48AM Sat, 12 November 2016 - #4289811

In order. What does using the Poser Filter on the store have anything to do with my comment? Explain.

Basically your argument was render moot from all the complaining about having a Poser filter so people didn't see the all the DS items because there were so many. Turn on the filter now. Problem solved.

Next, I don't need to have a store here to know that what a successful vendor feels, in working for themselves. Whether it is for extra income or their main income. My last sentence is still true. Nothing beats working for yourself. I never mentioned your main job or whether you should give it up.

No you do else your comment is uninformed. I know you want to say differently but it is what it is. It's nice that you work for yourself. I vendor part time because my benefits and travel on my main job are much better than those that say they love working for themselves, but they're stuck at home grinding away, looking for projects to work on. My work allows me to work at home and teleconference, some of the benefits people that work for themselves have and then I also have a travel bag for work with my passport and government clearance that I travel with so I get mini-vacations all though the year at work. So when people say they work for themselves, I still got them beat and not impressed. Sorry, it is what is as well.

Lastly, though it's not needed. Every month Renderosity picks out a vendor and gives them an award. I would say that makes them a successful vendor and I still don't have a store.

One person? Versus how many? That sounds more like the hunger games than a worthwhile endeavor. Successful vendors are those that like what they do and can make enough money to make it worth their while. That's why I said previously that unless you sell, your view is really uninformed.

I don't think Poser is dying. I wish I could say the same for Smith Micro.

qaz posted at 4:56PM Sat, 12 November 2016 - #4289787

"What makes you think people would buy Poser if the "state of the art figure" was actually included" If it does/has things V7 can't, and it's free. But of course bottom line, they sure as heck wont if Poser doesn't have that. The figure itself isn't enough, but if it is well supported and some decent morphs are produced, then you are off the ground. For instance I have had people begging me to release a particular morph I did a few years ago. What if that and others were only available for a Poser figure ?

I don't think 1 mesh can be all things to all people. The pros don't limit themselves to 1 mesh, why should we?

And the vendors have made it pretty clear they are only going to work on things that they are personally interested in. We can't get vendors to leave Poser 7 behind, how do suggest we get them on board with Poser 12? That is why SM added the tools they have to separate clothing from figures. We can use the figure of OUR choice & not worry so much about content.

qaz posted at 12:02AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289780

At present many more people use Daz Studio than Poser. It's free. What would you expect. If you look at the Reality PBR web site, you will see that there are 5 times as many posts from Studio users than Poser users, and that despite Daz Studio having an in built PBR app for quite some time now. Poser users have been content to use V4 and the huge legacy content designed for her. Daz users have had to buy genesis, then Genesis 2 then Genesis 3 and with each release a regurgitation of the same clothes. How many vendors produce Gen 2 products now ? Daz users probably end up paying more than Poser users. However, that doesn't matter. Sex sells, and V7 is far sexier than any Poser figure. Don't get me started about Pauline.

If you are going to attract new users to Poser, you need to offer at least the same access to state of the art figures.

Superfly is starting to get there, and if the next Poser can include shadow catching and instancing that will be attractive. However Poser cannot continue to rely on a 10 year old figure. It desperately needs a decent figure. SM seem completely incapable of producing one. Hopefully Erogenesis will finally complete his figure in 2017 and there will be a decent competitor to V7.

Hi there

I would agree more people using DS than Poser because is free Reality plugin,have look,why people use Reality more with DS is down to as many people don't have latest NVIDIA GPU and IRAY with any CPU is slow,with Reality you can render with CPU with decent speed which I can't say that about the IRAY or you can combine than with CPU+GPU and you can use or render with AMD GPU as well,due this I would consider Reality more

And yes agree about the new figure,but all depends what are you looking,I still prefer to use V4 and V3 plus other figures and sometimes export from DS few figures and render them in Poser

Instancing would love to have in Poser,but still don't think we will have that feature

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

People keep bringing up the point that many Poser people are still using V4. And they attribute this to the fact that Poser does not have a new "state of the art" figure. These people have already told you several times that they're sticking witth V4 because they've heavily invested a lot of money in her already and they don't feel the need to pick the shiny and new figure, regardless of what figure it is. Let it go already.

Just my opinion and point of view.

I have Poser 2 through PoserPro 2012, but haven't upgraded to PoserPro 11. I was excited about Cycles coming to Poser, and was hoping that SM would finally either provide better support for Genesis figures or have their own "great" figure. Unfortunately I was a bit disappointed with both. Even though I know Cycles is an excellent render engine, I was rather underwhelmed by the renders from SM, and extremely disappointed by the renders from the early adopters. This made it seem like a product that wasn't quite ready for prime time. Then there were all the issues with the new figures, this really made if feel like a product that was pushed out the door way tooo soon. The lack of instancing was also a big negative for me.

I'm a Carrara user "first", and have been using DS a lot more since the introduction of Iray, and Poser in now in a distant 3rd place. P11 for me just didn't provide enough bang for the buck compared to what I already have with Carrara and DS (I also have the Octane plugin for both). I still check out the Poser forums every now and then to see how it is progressing. So for me, it's not dead yet, but it is on a wait and see status (life support??).

Keep in mind, I was able to create great renders (or at least great to me) within a few hours of installing the DS beta with Iray, as were many, many other people. With Superfly, there were very few inspiring renders being posted (with the exception of a small handful of users) for months. Superfly "shouldn't" be that hard to use and get great results from. This also gave me great pause, not being sure what was the real problem with the inability to create great renders.

Anyway, between Poser and DS, for me, the way I like to work, and to the results I want, right now I like DS better (and I prefer the Genesis line of figures). I'll keep watching Poser to see what happens in the future. For those that prefer Poser, I wish you and SM the best of luck, and maybe someday I'll be a P11 (or later) user again.

DustRider posted at 12:19AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289896

Just my opinion and point of view.

I have Poser 2 through PoserPro 2012, but haven't upgraded to PoserPro 11. I was excited about Cycles coming to Poser, and was hoping that SM would finally either provide better support for Genesis figures or have their own "great" figure. Unfortunately I was a bit disappointed with both. Even though I know Cycles is an excellent render engine, I was rather underwhelmed by the renders from SM, and extremely disappointed by the renders from the early adopters. This made it seem like a product that wasn't quite ready for prime time. Then there were all the issues with the new figures, this really made if feel like a product that was pushed out the door way tooo soon. The lack of instancing was also a big negative for me.

I'm a Carrara user "first", and have been using DS a lot more since the introduction of Iray, and Poser in now in a distant 3rd place. P11 for me just didn't provide enough bang for the buck compared to what I already have with Carrara and DS (I also have the Octane plugin for both). I still check out the Poser forums every now and then to see how it is progressing. So for me, it's not dead yet, but it is on a wait and see status (life support??).

Keep in mind, I was able to create great renders (or at least great to me) within a few hours of installing the DS beta with Iray, as were many, many other people. With Superfly, there were very few inspiring renders being posted (with the exception of a small handful of users) for months. Superfly "shouldn't" be that hard to use and get great results from. This also gave me great pause, not being sure what was the real problem with the inability to create great renders.

Anyway, between Poser and DS, for me, the way I like to work, and to the results I want, right now I like DS better (and I prefer the Genesis line of figures). I'll keep watching Poser to see what happens in the future. For those that prefer Poser, I wish you and SM the best of luck, and maybe someday I'll be a P11 (or later) user again.

I don't know quite how to respond to you Dustrider. Superfly really isn't that hard to use once you really invest a little time into learning it. But no you're not going to instantly be producing Michangelo or DaVinci grade "great renders" out of the box either. If you couldn't draw well with a crayon, giving you a paintbrush probably isn't going to help much.

I think Dustrider's point was that Iray and the way the materials are handled is just easier to use and get a nice result if you're new to them than Superfly is. That's all ;). I can't speak to Superfly because I've never used it. I never upgraded to Poser 11 either. And I'm watching, just like Dustrider too :). However, if Superfly is anything like the materials in Firefly then it would literally take me years to get used to them. No lie. I never understood Firefly's material room either until BB kicked me in the head with a material and gave me an "aha!" moment. LOL

Laurie

I wouldn't know if it was easier since I can't make heads or tails of DS's material workspace. I need people to explain it to me.

Iray isn't so bad really, but 3Delight is a bit more...complicated. But I digress. LOL

Seriously tho, I can't speculate on whether Poser is dying, SM is dying, my plants are dying...I don't KNOW for a fact if they are or not. I guess even if SM stops selling Poser tomorrow those that use it will continue to use it as long as it works for them and in that sense, if it dies, it's going to take its good old time :P. I hope it's not. It's not something I want to see really.

Laurie

To be honest though, I believe that Poser's "death" would actually be the worse thing that could happen to DAZ. I know that sounds strange, but while I was never a fan of Studio's existence, I do believe that it make's Poser a better program. If they didn't cling so hard to the mantra of backward compatibility, which I actually believe is holding it back, it would be an even better program. Likewise, I believe that if Poser "died" Studio would pretty much just stop trying. I also don't think it would be free any longer, but that's off on another tangent.

EClark1894 posted at 4:05AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289917

To be honest though, I believe that Poser's "death" would actually be the worse thing that could happen to DAZ. I know that sounds strange, but while I was never a fan of Studio's existence, I do believe that it make's Poser a better program. If they didn't cling so hard to the mantra of backward compatibility, which I actually believe is holding it back, it would be an even better program. Likewise, I believe that if Poser "died" Studio would pretty much just stop trying. I also don't think it would be free any longer, but that's off on another tangent.

What is it about backwards compatibility that you think is holding Poser back?

If they didn't maintain compatibility with older content - say for Poser 12 - then they'd lose most of their customers who would have virtually no content to work with in the new version, aside from whatever was made for the new version. That would also force them into the content market or at the very least require them to hire a full team of artists to make up for the loss and that gets expensive pretty fast.

You can add new features to software without ripping out the old, unless the old directly conflicts with the new. For example, weight mapped figures don't work for any version of Poser prior to 9, but any of those old figures can still work as-is in 9 or higher and they can be converted to weight mapped rigging if you want them to be. Every new version has added features that are not compatible with older versions. SubD morphing, and smooth translations would be two of the most recent.

I would love to see them remove the need for geometry groups and make rigs directly selectable without them, but that doesn't mean they should remove the coding that reads those groups because that would make older content incompatible. They'd pretty much be committing market suicide by doing so.

AmbientShade posted at 5:56AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289921

EClark1894 posted at 4:05AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289917

To be honest though, I believe that Poser's "death" would actually be the worse thing that could happen to DAZ. I know that sounds strange, but while I was never a fan of Studio's existence, I do believe that it make's Poser a better program. If they didn't cling so hard to the mantra of backward compatibility, which I actually believe is holding it back, it would be an even better program. Likewise, I believe that if Poser "died" Studio would pretty much just stop trying. I also don't think it would be free any longer, but that's off on another tangent.

What is it about backwards compatibility that you think is holding Poser back?

If they didn't maintain compatibility with older content - say for Poser 12 - then they'd lose most of their customers who would have virtually no content to work with in the new version, aside from whatever was made for the new version. That would also force them into the content market or at the very least require them to hire a full team of artists to make up for the loss and that gets expensive pretty fast.

You can add new features to software without ripping out the old, unless the old directly conflicts with the new. For example, weight mapped figures don't work for any version of Poser prior to 9, but any of those old figures can still work as-is in 9 or higher and they can be converted to weight mapped rigging if you want them to be. Every new version has added features that are not compatible with older versions. SubD morphing, and smooth translations would be two of the most recent.

I would love to see them remove the need for geometry groups and make rigs directly selectable without them, but that doesn't mean they should remove the coding that reads those groups because that would make older content incompatible. They'd pretty much be committing market suicide by doing so.

I'm not saying they should get rid of compatibility where it makes no sense or gains no benefit. But if holding on to compatibility keeps us from getting another feature or even improving one we already have, then it should go. Even if, for example, it means we can no longer play with Posette in Poser 12, that's okay. I have Poser 2 through 11 to help me do that..

EClark1894 posted at 6:15AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289925

I'm not saying they should get rid of compatibility where it makes no sense or gains no benefit. But if holding on to compatibility keeps us from getting another feature or even improving one we already have, then it should go. Even if, for example, it means we can no longer play with Posette in Poser 12, that's okay. I have Poser 2 through 11 to help me do that..

Additional rigging systems can be added without getting rid of the older. Lots of software supports multiple types of rigging. I don't see why Poser couldn't do the same if the devs wanted.

And if Posette doesn't work in P12 then V4 doesn't either, since they both use the same basic rigging system. And then the pitchforks come out.

I dunno. Daz is looking more and more tempting. The more I use DS the more I like it lately.

I rather like Daz Studio, from the little I've used it. I need to take time and get into it more, then the inevitable spending spree on the Genesis 3 stuff and so forth...

Meanwhile, I'm still using and enjoying Poser. I don't see a problem with using both, or any other software that gets the job done. I mean, I don't stick to one single brush size or paint colour and I'll paint on hardboard (masonite) just as happily as canvas or anything else.

Software wars are just plain silly. Whatever gets the job done is the right tool for the job. I will say, however, I wish Poser had a serious challenger to the Victoria hegemony, right out of the box. Having Gabe to fix Alyson was great but maybe Smith Micro should have just given him the job of building the damn thing in the first place.

SamTherapy posted at 4:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289930

I rather like Daz Studio, from the little I've used it. I need to take time and get into it more, then the inevitable spending spree on the Genesis 3 stuff and so forth...

Meanwhile, I'm still using and enjoying Poser. I don't see a problem with using both, or any other software that gets the job done. I mean, I don't stick to one single brush size or paint colour and I'll paint on hardboard (masonite) just as happily as canvas or anything else.

Software wars are just plain silly. Whatever gets the job done is the right tool for the job. I will say, however, I wish Poser had a serious challenger to the Victoria hegemony, right out of the box. Having Gabe to fix Alyson was great but maybe Smith Micro should have just given him the job of building the damn thing in the first place.

I can never find anything in Studio. It's like when I first picked up Blender.

This is my rules in order for me to use a CGI app.

Make it fast usable dependable n fun. If they can't do that then I don't use there app.

simple enought

EClark1894 posted at 6:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289900

DustRider posted at 12:19AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289896

Just my opinion and point of view.

I have Poser 2 through PoserPro 2012, but haven't upgraded to PoserPro 11. I was excited about Cycles coming to Poser, and was hoping that SM would finally either provide better support for Genesis figures or have their own "great" figure. Unfortunately I was a bit disappointed with both. Even though I know Cycles is an excellent render engine, I was rather underwhelmed by the renders from SM, and extremely disappointed by the renders from the early adopters. This made it seem like a product that wasn't quite ready for prime time. Then there were all the issues with the new figures, this really made if feel like a product that was pushed out the door way tooo soon. The lack of instancing was also a big negative for me.

I'm a Carrara user "first", and have been using DS a lot more since the introduction of Iray, and Poser in now in a distant 3rd place. P11 for me just didn't provide enough bang for the buck compared to what I already have with Carrara and DS (I also have the Octane plugin for both). I still check out the Poser forums every now and then to see how it is progressing. So for me, it's not dead yet, but it is on a wait and see status (life support??).

Keep in mind, I was able to create great renders (or at least great to me) within a few hours of installing the DS beta with Iray, as were many, many other people. With Superfly, there were very few inspiring renders being posted (with the exception of a small handful of users) for months. Superfly "shouldn't" be that hard to use and get great results from. This also gave me great pause, not being sure what was the real problem with the inability to create great renders.

Anyway, between Poser and DS, for me, the way I like to work, and to the results I want, right now I like DS better (and I prefer the Genesis line of figures). I'll keep watching Poser to see what happens in the future. For those that prefer Poser, I wish you and SM the best of luck, and maybe someday I'll be a P11 (or later) user again.

I don't know quite how to respond to you Dustrider. Superfly really isn't that hard to use once you really invest a little time into learning it. But no you're not going to instantly be producing Michangelo or DaVinci grade "great renders" out of the box either. If you couldn't draw well with a crayon, giving you a paintbrush probably isn't going to help much.

I guess I was trying to say something, without actually saying it (seldom works). There were several issue regarding the implementation and general user results of Superfly that concerned me, but the quality of the render engine wasn't one of them. Keep in mind the following are opinions based on what I could get from various forum posts and other web sources, as a perspective purchaser.

First, IMHO, it seemed as if Superfly (PBR renderer) was a quick last hour addition to P11 in response to Iray in DS. Maybe it wasn't, but it did seem that way, and perceptions are very important. If we were to view DS and Poser as "competing" products, then I would expect SM to provide at least a rudimentary set of shaders/scripts/lights to provide good quality skin with the most popular figure for poser (V4) when launched. I would also expect them to provide an outstanding texture/shader set for their own flagship new figures. I would expect many outstanding renders from both SM and beta testers to show case the new render engine. Additionally, I would expect that early adopters would also be producing a lot outstanding renders within 1-2 months. From what I saw in the forums, this wasn't the case (but this is what happened when DAZ introduced Iray in DS).

Yes, I know that it takes time to learn a new render engine. But my expectation is that more users should have been able to produce great renders within 1-2 months. These expectations are based on my own experiences using Poser (Firefly, Reality/Lux), Daz Studio (3Delight, Iray, Octane, Reality/Lux, Luxus), Carrara (Carrara's internal renderer, Octane, LuxCore), and Vue Complete. With all of the mentioned applications and render engines, I have been able to produce images in less than 2 weeks that I would consider better than 90+% of the images I saw posted for almost a year from Superfly. Of course this is just my opinion, which may be completely different than most other people (but I kind of doubt it), but it is an important factor in my decision to not purchase the upgrade yet.

I'm not so concerned that I can't produce something I would be happy with using Superfly, because I feel I could. What concerns me is that for a product where the quality of the images being produced by said product are very important to "lure" new (and old) users to invest in the product, I haven't seen a lot of the WOW factor that I would expect is needed to attract the masses. This makes me question what/where the focus for Poser now is. As so many have noted, is it for the 3D figure "tinkerer", those that enjoy creating and doing their "own" thing, and don't really care about the visual quality of their renders, and/or the figures/textures/shaders they use? If that is the case, then I'm definitely not too interested in Poser going forward. Not because I don't enjoy tinkering too, but my ultimate goal is to create images I find visually pleasing, and that I'm proud of.

Also, I have a huge personal investment in this hobby in terms of time (learning and making/tweaking stuff) and funds (buying things I don't have the talent and or time to make such as human figures and accessories). As Poser and DS/Carrara diverge, I feel a bit compelled to protect my personal investment, and look at which may be moving forward in a direction that both best fits my interests and goals, and is pushing technology to improve and attract a strong new user base.

I know what I'm about to say won't be popular here, but it is my honest opinion, and ultimately the factor that tipped the scales away from upgrading to P11. So much of what I saw in the forums with the release P11 was ..... ummm ..... the same old group, doing the same old thing(s). Many of the images coming from Superfly were simply uninspiring. Then there were the people fixing the poor quality figures for SM (this, to me, was totally unprofessional on the part of SM, Charles states that "content is king" the they push out figures like Pauline and Paul ...... really???). The whole release of P11 seemed very unprofessional to me. Yes, SM has addressed and fixed many of the issues, but it really turned me off, and made me feel that maybe Poser isn't for me anymore.

Poser could be so much more than what it is, and P11 could have been a must buy for me had there been a lot of drop dead gorgeous images from Superfly, and had Pauline been a great figure "out of the box", and if they had added instancing (come on SM - it's 2016!!). I really hope they can turn the ship around, and make me want to get Poser again. Just waiting to see now.

DustRider posted at 9:12AM Mon, 14 November 2016 - #4289992

EClark1894 posted at 6:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289900

DustRider posted at 12:19AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289896

Just my opinion and point of view.

I have Poser 2 through PoserPro 2012, but haven't upgraded to PoserPro 11. I was excited about Cycles coming to Poser, and was hoping that SM would finally either provide better support for Genesis figures or have their own "great" figure. Unfortunately I was a bit disappointed with both. Even though I know Cycles is an excellent render engine, I was rather underwhelmed by the renders from SM, and extremely disappointed by the renders from the early adopters. This made it seem like a product that wasn't quite ready for prime time. Then there were all the issues with the new figures, this really made if feel like a product that was pushed out the door way tooo soon. The lack of instancing was also a big negative for me.

I'm a Carrara user "first", and have been using DS a lot more since the introduction of Iray, and Poser in now in a distant 3rd place. P11 for me just didn't provide enough bang for the buck compared to what I already have with Carrara and DS (I also have the Octane plugin for both). I still check out the Poser forums every now and then to see how it is progressing. So for me, it's not dead yet, but it is on a wait and see status (life support??).

Keep in mind, I was able to create great renders (or at least great to me) within a few hours of installing the DS beta with Iray, as were many, many other people. With Superfly, there were very few inspiring renders being posted (with the exception of a small handful of users) for months. Superfly "shouldn't" be that hard to use and get great results from. This also gave me great pause, not being sure what was the real problem with the inability to create great renders.

Anyway, between Poser and DS, for me, the way I like to work, and to the results I want, right now I like DS better (and I prefer the Genesis line of figures). I'll keep watching Poser to see what happens in the future. For those that prefer Poser, I wish you and SM the best of luck, and maybe someday I'll be a P11 (or later) user again.

I don't know quite how to respond to you Dustrider. Superfly really isn't that hard to use once you really invest a little time into learning it. But no you're not going to instantly be producing Michangelo or DaVinci grade "great renders" out of the box either. If you couldn't draw well with a crayon, giving you a paintbrush probably isn't going to help much.

I guess I was trying to say something, without actually saying it (seldom works). There were several issue regarding the implementation and general user results of Superfly that concerned me, but the quality of the render engine wasn't one of them. Keep in mind the following are opinions based on what I could get from various forum posts and other web sources, as a perspective purchaser.

First, IMHO, it seemed as if Superfly (PBR renderer) was a quick last hour addition to P11 in response to Iray in DS. Maybe it wasn't, but it did seem that way, and perceptions are very important. If we were to view DS and Poser as "competing" products, then I would expect SM to provide at least a rudimentary set of shaders/scripts/lights to provide good quality skin with the most popular figure for poser (V4) when launched. I would also expect them to provide an outstanding texture/shader set for their own flagship new figures. I would expect many outstanding renders from both SM and beta testers to show case the new render engine. Additionally, I would expect that early adopters would also be producing a lot outstanding renders within 1-2 months. From what I saw in the forums, this wasn't the case (but this is what happened when DAZ introduced Iray in DS).

Yes, I know that it takes time to learn a new render engine. But my expectation is that more users should have been able to produce great renders within 1-2 months. These expectations are based on my own experiences using Poser (Firefly, Reality/Lux), Daz Studio (3Delight, Iray, Octane, Reality/Lux, Luxus), Carrara (Carrara's internal renderer, Octane, LuxCore), and Vue Complete. With all of the mentioned applications and render engines, I have been able to produce images in less than 2 weeks that I would consider better than 90+% of the images I saw posted for almost a year from Superfly. Of course this is just my opinion, which may be completely different than most other people (but I kind of doubt it), but it is an important factor in my decision to not purchase the upgrade yet.

I'm not so concerned that I can't produce something I would be happy with using Superfly, because I feel I could. What concerns me is that for a product where the quality of the images being produced by said product are very important to "lure" new (and old) users to invest in the product, I haven't seen a lot of the WOW factor that I would expect is needed to attract the masses. This makes me question what/where the focus for Poser now is. As so many have noted, is it for the 3D figure "tinkerer", those that enjoy creating and doing their "own" thing, and don't really care about the visual quality of their renders, and/or the figures/textures/shaders they use? If that is the case, then I'm definitely not too interested in Poser going forward. Not because I don't enjoy tinkering too, but my ultimate goal is to create images I find visually pleasing, and that I'm proud of.

Also, I have a huge personal investment in this hobby in terms of time (learning and making/tweaking stuff) and funds (buying things I don't have the talent and or time to make such as human figures and accessories). As Poser and DS/Carrara diverge, I feel a bit compelled to protect my personal investment, and look at which may be moving forward in a direction that both best fits my interests and goals, and is pushing technology to improve and attract a strong new user base.

I know what I'm about to say won't be popular here, but it is my honest opinion, and ultimately the factor that tipped the scales away from upgrading to P11. So much of what I saw in the forums with the release P11 was ..... ummm ..... the same old group, doing the same old thing(s). Many of the images coming from Superfly were simply uninspiring. Then there were the people fixing the poor quality figures for SM (this, to me, was totally unprofessional on the part of SM, Charles states that "content is king" the they push out figures like Pauline and Paul ...... really???). The whole release of P11 seemed very unprofessional to me. Yes, SM has addressed and fixed many of the issues, but it really turned me off, and made me feel that maybe Poser isn't for me anymore.

Poser could be so much more than what it is, and P11 could have been a must buy for me had there been a lot of drop dead gorgeous images from Superfly, and had Pauline been a great figure "out of the box", and if they had added instancing (come on SM - it's 2016!!). I really hope they can turn the ship around, and make me want to get Poser again. Just waiting to see now.

I will agree that Poser 11 was rushed out of the door. I think that SM knew that, because they announced far more frequent service releases. Although Pauline was only vaguely human looking, it did show what Poser 11 was capable of with handles, sub D, normal maps. Superfly looked difficult to master, and I didn't even bother trying as I used Reality. However 12 months on I wouldn't even think of using Reality. I can get a PBR image out in Superfly faster than it takes to set up in Reality and it looks better. Huge cheer for Snarly's Ezskin 3

Have you checked out the Physical root node ? You can achieve excellent material settings with just a few clicks. I have an AMD graphics card so I use CPU rendering only. No problem of running out of memory with big scenes. Actually just found that Superfly has no problem with AMD card. Didn't work at all with Reality. Suffice to say Iray would be useless as its Nvidia.

As a test I did a quick Superfly render. Took old model, added Snarly's EZskin and a couple of area lights. Medium quality about an hour. I would like it to be quicker, but I'm not going to upgrade until budget graphics cards hit the 8 gb mark. There is of course the AMD RX 480.

DustRider posted at 12:45PM Mon, 14 November 2016 - #4289992

EClark1894 posted at 6:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289900

DustRider posted at 12:19AM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289896

Just my opinion and point of view.

I have Poser 2 through PoserPro 2012, but haven't upgraded to PoserPro 11. I was excited about Cycles coming to Poser, and was hoping that SM would finally either provide better support for Genesis figures or have their own "great" figure. Unfortunately I was a bit disappointed with both. Even though I know Cycles is an excellent render engine, I was rather underwhelmed by the renders from SM, and extremely disappointed by the renders from the early adopters. This made it seem like a product that wasn't quite ready for prime time. Then there were all the issues with the new figures, this really made if feel like a product that was pushed out the door way tooo soon. The lack of instancing was also a big negative for me.

I'm a Carrara user "first", and have been using DS a lot more since the introduction of Iray, and Poser in now in a distant 3rd place. P11 for me just didn't provide enough bang for the buck compared to what I already have with Carrara and DS (I also have the Octane plugin for both). I still check out the Poser forums every now and then to see how it is progressing. So for me, it's not dead yet, but it is on a wait and see status (life support??).

Keep in mind, I was able to create great renders (or at least great to me) within a few hours of installing the DS beta with Iray, as were many, many other people. With Superfly, there were very few inspiring renders being posted (with the exception of a small handful of users) for months. Superfly "shouldn't" be that hard to use and get great results from. This also gave me great pause, not being sure what was the real problem with the inability to create great renders.

Anyway, between Poser and DS, for me, the way I like to work, and to the results I want, right now I like DS better (and I prefer the Genesis line of figures). I'll keep watching Poser to see what happens in the future. For those that prefer Poser, I wish you and SM the best of luck, and maybe someday I'll be a P11 (or later) user again.

I don't know quite how to respond to you Dustrider. Superfly really isn't that hard to use once you really invest a little time into learning it. But no you're not going to instantly be producing Michangelo or DaVinci grade "great renders" out of the box either. If you couldn't draw well with a crayon, giving you a paintbrush probably isn't going to help much.

I guess I was trying to say something, without actually saying it (seldom works). There were several issue regarding the implementation and general user results of Superfly that concerned me, but the quality of the render engine wasn't one of them. Keep in mind the following are opinions based on what I could get from various forum posts and other web sources, as a perspective purchaser.

First, IMHO, it seemed as if Superfly (PBR renderer) was a quick last hour addition to P11 in response to Iray in DS. Maybe it wasn't, but it did seem that way, and perceptions are very important. If we were to view DS and Poser as "competing" products, then I would expect SM to provide at least a rudimentary set of shaders/scripts/lights to provide good quality skin with the most popular figure for poser (V4) when launched. I would also expect them to provide an outstanding texture/shader set for their own flagship new figures. I would expect many outstanding renders from both SM and beta testers to show case the new render engine. Additionally, I would expect that early adopters would also be producing a lot outstanding renders within 1-2 months. From what I saw in the forums, this wasn't the case (but this is what happened when DAZ introduced Iray in DS).

I can't really speak for SM since I'm not an ambassador and am not privy to what they know about schedules and release dates. Even if I were, there are those pesky darn NDA agreements they sign, so I don't even know what they could tell you. However, from what Nerd has posted online, it seems the biggest problem with Superfly, once again, since it is a hybrid renderer, was getting it to play nicely with Firefly. In fact that may be the main problem you have with it. I don't think Studio has Iray playing with 3DL like that. (I don't know, mind you, just guessing) But that was SM trying to maintain backward compatibility with older content. Cycles really is a lot easier to use, but Superfly IS NOT CYCLES. It is a HYBRID, so a lot of trial and error ensued.

Yes, I know that it takes time to learn a new render engine. But my expectation is that more users should have been able to produce great renders within 1-2 months. These expectations are based on my own experiences using Poser (Firefly, Reality/Lux), Daz Studio (3Delight, Iray, Octane, Reality/Lux, Luxus), Carrara (Carrara's internal renderer, Octane, LuxCore), and Vue Complete. With all of the mentioned applications and render engines, I have been able to produce images in less than 2 weeks that I would consider better than 90+% of the images I saw posted for almost a year from Superfly. Of course this is just my opinion, which may be completely different than most other people (but I kind of doubt it), but it is an important factor in my decision to not purchase the upgrade yet.

Also, I have a huge personal investment in this hobby in terms of time (learning and making/tweaking stuff) and funds (buying things I don't have the talent and or time to make such as human figures and accessories). As Poser and DS/Carrara diverge, I feel a bit compelled to protect my personal investment, and look at which may be moving forward in a direction that both best fits my interests and goals, and is pushing technology to improve and attract a strong new user base.

I know what I'm about to say won't be popular here, but it is my honest opinion, and ultimately the factor that tipped the scales away from upgrading to P11. So much of what I saw in the forums with the release P11 was ..... ummm ..... the same old group, doing the same old thing(s). Many of the images coming from Superfly were simply uninspiring. Then there were the people fixing the poor quality figures for SM (this, to me, was totally unprofessional on the part of SM, Charles states that "content is king" the they push out figures like Pauline and Paul ...... really???). The whole release of P11 seemed very unprofessional to me. Yes, SM has addressed and fixed many of the issues, but it really turned me off, and made me feel that maybe Poser isn't for me anymore.

Poser could be so much more than what it is, and P11 could have been a must buy for me had there been a lot of drop dead gorgeous images from Superfly, and had Pauline been a great figure "out of the box", and if they had added instancing (come on SM - it's 2016!!). I really hope they can turn the ship around, and make me want to get Poser again. Just waiting to see now.

I don't think anyone here, certainly not me, will condemn you for using whatever you feel fits you best. Just the same, remember that it took Studio years to get to where it is now even with a good figure, and while it was free. And even now, even you apparently would rather use Poser. You're just resigned to using Studio, primarily because of the figure.

EClark1894 posted at 10:47PM Mon, 14 November 2016 - #4289980

SamTherapy posted at 4:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289930

I rather like Daz Studio, from the little I've used it. I need to take time and get into it more, then the inevitable spending spree on the Genesis 3 stuff and so forth...

Meanwhile, I'm still using and enjoying Poser. I don't see a problem with using both, or any other software that gets the job done. I mean, I don't stick to one single brush size or paint colour and I'll paint on hardboard (masonite) just as happily as canvas or anything else.

Software wars are just plain silly. Whatever gets the job done is the right tool for the job. I will say, however, I wish Poser had a serious challenger to the Victoria hegemony, right out of the box. Having Gabe to fix Alyson was great but maybe Smith Micro should have just given him the job of building the damn thing in the first place.

I can never find anything in Studio. It's like when I first picked up Blender.

If there's anything you think I can help you with just ask. Or someone who uses both. I'm sure they can help ya. You are able to organize your DS libraries like you can Poser so that it's easier to help you find things. That was my biggest hurdle (and frustration) when I started using it, but I stuck with it. I think it behooves people to learn to use both programs. Let's face it - everything dies, including us, and software much more frequently. At least if you know both programs you still have something to use if one suddenly disappears ;). Or not. LOL

Anyway...sorry to go off track :)

Laurie

Takes no skill to do poses? Wow, then I should be cranking them out after all these years...which I don't btw. Wow. Just. Wow. Go and say that to i13 and Danie and Zeddicuss and FeralFey and..... Razor42 doesn't make just poses fwiw.

If poses took no skill, everyone would be making them, don't you think? o.O

Laurie

Razor42 posted at 1:05AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4289519

RorrKonn posted at 11:39AM Thu, 10 November 2016 - #4289466

Razor42 posted at 12:19PM Wed, 09 November 2016 - #4289425

(@Rorr: If you think some of the top vendors in this market sector would earn more flipping burgers, you may need to check your sources as I can tell you this is far from correct...)

Well for about as long as Posers been around I've been asking about vendors income. Most won't say but the very very few ,That was nice enough to talked to me about it. Considered there vendor income as a little extra cash ,not enough to pay bills n to survive on. There where a vendor mostly for the fun of it.

How many top Vendors make $20,000 or more a year ? it's what you would make burning burgers.

How many top Vendors make $50,000 or more a year ? it's what fast food mgrs. make.

How many top Vendors make $100,000 or more a year ? it's what mgrs. make at restaurants like Fridays RubyTuesday Chili's etc etc

As in any industry, the range in content creative types and their associated incomes is very diverse. And you're right that many vendors, especially those that are just starting off, see content creation as more of a hobby or a way to earn a little extra cash doing something that they enjoy, that can support the cost of their hobby along the way. I wouldn't describe this group as the top vendors though, but more as the amateur vendor sector. There has definitely been some strong growth among some areas of the industry in the field of professional content creation over the last few years. And by "Professional" I am meaning a content creator that sees creating content as their main source of income and as a full time job, more often than not creating for a variety of platforms and not just a single point.

Just to put those numbers you have provided into context the average income of a U.S. prostitute is around $290,000 per year. Maybe most of us would be better off working as prostitutes, if we were to follow your logic?

To look purely from a financial perspective does tends to miss a lot of the added benefits and perks of working in the content creation industry as a whole. And financially speaking, I'm not saying it is easy money, nor is it a perfect fit for everyone, but there still are a lot of opportunities available for those that do have the dedication, perseverance and the base skills required to give it a go. I would say that most professional content creators incomes would place them well within the the top 40% of non-employer small business's income sets, which makes it a fairly healthy small business industry. I do hesitate to pin down exact numbers as the figures do depend quite a bit based on a variety of key factors among the individual creator and their choices within the industry. Some other benefits in choosing to focus in content creation are that it is purely a skill based industry with low entry costs and probably has more in common with Video Game creation or even the music industry than it does with the hospitality industry. The skills required for being a successful content creator can also be a direct pathway through to the broader computer graphics industry with top creatives often doing side projects or taking tangent paths into the much larger video game or movie industries.

For me personally, let's just say I have no interest in managing any kind of food venture in the near future.

I'm not saying you don't have Skills n I like your DA Bio Tank.

but a person can become a top vender buy just selling poses ? I don't know if it's difficult for me to believe cause it so easy or it pisses me off that a skill less person could do so well in a fill that requires to clime higher you learn more skills.

LaurieA posted at 1:18AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290090

Takes no skill to do poses? Wow, then I should be cranking them out after all these years...which I don't btw. Wow. Just. Wow. Go and say that to i13 and Danie and Zeddicuss and FeralFey and..... Razor42 doesn't make just poses fwiw.

If poses took no skill, everyone would be making them, don't you think? o.O

Laurie

Modeling ,Sculpting ,Mapping, Texturing ,Rigging. Takes skills. Don't try to compare some one that makes poses to CGI Artist that can Model ,Sculpt ,Map, Texture ,Rig. you can't.

Say what now? Time for intermission I guess.

Maybe show and tell, here is what I have been working on today.

It's a bit of a darker take on a Kelpie creature, still a work in progress with plenty to do.

Modelling, UV Mapping, Attachments and their Morphs in Blender

Texturing for Diffuse,Normal and Height maps in Blender and Photoshop

PBR Mats created in DS, Lighting & Render preset created in DS.

Probably add a seaweed type shaggy mane and finish of the other attachments rigging and weight maps next.

So what you been tweaking there Rorr? ;)

Anyway lets try not to go to far off topic...

RorrKonn posted at 6:20AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290092

LaurieA posted at 1:18AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290090

Takes no skill to do poses? Wow, then I should be cranking them out after all these years...which I don't btw. Wow. Just. Wow. Go and say that to i13 and Danie and Zeddicuss and FeralFey and..... Razor42 doesn't make just poses fwiw.

If poses took no skill, everyone would be making them, don't you think? o.O

Laurie

Modeling ,Sculpting ,Mapping, Texturing ,Rigging. Takes skills. Don't try to compare some one that makes poses to CGI Artist that can Model ,Sculpt ,Map, Texture ,Rig. you can't.

Everyone has specialties. Some that make houses and other inorganic objects can't make a human character to save their life. Let's not run down those that make poses either. It does take a special skill set and an eye (a far better one that someone that can make a car) to make a static pose show movement and proper balance of the human (and animal) form. Not everyone can do it, and that's simply a fact.

LaurieA posted at 8:20AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290083

EClark1894 posted at 10:47PM Mon, 14 November 2016 - #4289980

SamTherapy posted at 4:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289930

I rather like Daz Studio, from the little I've used it. I need to take time and get into it more, then the inevitable spending spree on the Genesis 3 stuff and so forth...

Meanwhile, I'm still using and enjoying Poser. I don't see a problem with using both, or any other software that gets the job done. I mean, I don't stick to one single brush size or paint colour and I'll paint on hardboard (masonite) just as happily as canvas or anything else.

Software wars are just plain silly. Whatever gets the job done is the right tool for the job. I will say, however, I wish Poser had a serious challenger to the Victoria hegemony, right out of the box. Having Gabe to fix Alyson was great but maybe Smith Micro should have just given him the job of building the damn thing in the first place.

I can never find anything in Studio. It's like when I first picked up Blender.

If there's anything you think I can help you with just ask. Or someone who uses both. I'm sure they can help ya. You are able to organize your DS libraries like you can Poser so that it's easier to help you find things. That was my biggest hurdle (and frustration) when I started using it, but I stuck with it. I think it behooves people to learn to use both programs. Let's face it - everything dies, including us, and software much more frequently. At least if you know both programs you still have something to use if one suddenly disappears ;). Or not. LOL

Anyway...sorry to go off track :)

Laurie

Thanks for the offer Laurie. Fortunately, the members over at Hivewire practically fall off their chairs rushing to offer me help in DS if I need it. And usually, for anything harder, Razor 42 has been very helpful.

Yeah please keep it friendly guys and girls. The thread starts with the concerns of not enough content available to keep the masses happy, so questioning the skills of the content developers regardless of what they do would be very counter productive.

EClark1894 posted at 1:56PM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290101

LaurieA posted at 8:20AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290083

EClark1894 posted at 10:47PM Mon, 14 November 2016 - #4289980

SamTherapy posted at 4:29PM Sun, 13 November 2016 - #4289930

I rather like Daz Studio, from the little I've used it. I need to take time and get into it more, then the inevitable spending spree on the Genesis 3 stuff and so forth...

Meanwhile, I'm still using and enjoying Poser. I don't see a problem with using both, or any other software that gets the job done. I mean, I don't stick to one single brush size or paint colour and I'll paint on hardboard (masonite) just as happily as canvas or anything else.

Software wars are just plain silly. Whatever gets the job done is the right tool for the job. I will say, however, I wish Poser had a serious challenger to the Victoria hegemony, right out of the box. Having Gabe to fix Alyson was great but maybe Smith Micro should have just given him the job of building the damn thing in the first place.

I can never find anything in Studio. It's like when I first picked up Blender.

If there's anything you think I can help you with just ask. Or someone who uses both. I'm sure they can help ya. You are able to organize your DS libraries like you can Poser so that it's easier to help you find things. That was my biggest hurdle (and frustration) when I started using it, but I stuck with it. I think it behooves people to learn to use both programs. Let's face it - everything dies, including us, and software much more frequently. At least if you know both programs you still have something to use if one suddenly disappears ;). Or not. LOL

Anyway...sorry to go off track :)

Laurie

Thanks for the offer Laurie. Fortunately, the members over at Hivewire practically fall off their chairs rushing to offer me help in DS if I need it. And usually, for anything harder, Razor 42 has been very helpful.

RorrKonn posted at 2:06PM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290092

LaurieA posted at 1:18AM Tue, 15 November 2016 - #4290090

Takes no skill to do poses? Wow, then I should be cranking them out after all these years...which I don't btw. Wow. Just. Wow. Go and say that to i13 and Danie and Zeddicuss and FeralFey and..... Razor42 doesn't make just poses fwiw.

If poses took no skill, everyone would be making them, don't you think? o.O

Laurie

Modeling ,Sculpting ,Mapping, Texturing ,Rigging. Takes skills. Don't try to compare some one that makes poses to CGI Artist that can Model ,Sculpt ,Map, Texture ,Rig. you can't.

I didn't realize there was a sliding scale of "talent" between "3D God or Goddess" and "Hack" LOL

Laurie

Posing does take a specific skillset that not everyone is so good at, which is one reason why pose sets tend to be good sellers. It's one of the foundational skill sets of traditional figure drawing and it's also why a lot of amateur figure models don't look right when that skill isn't there. It's called contrapposto. Look it up.

LaurieA posted at 1:50PM Wed, 16 November 2016 - #4290132

I didn't realize there was a sliding scale of "talent" between "3D Gods or Goddess" and "Hacks" LOL

Laurie

Actually that's the answer to Is any CGI app ,CGI studio etc etc dying ?

CGI is a talent contest.

No, really! I think I saw it move! Beat it some more!!! (https://live.cdn.renderosity.com/forum/comments/4290196/file_42a0e188f5033bc65bf8d78622277c4e.jpg)

No, really! I think I saw it move! Beat it some more!!!

EClark1894 posted at 6:22PM Wed, 16 November 2016 - #4290201

No, really! I think I saw it move! Beat it some more!!!

LOL !!! ;)

EClark1894 posted at 11:23PM Wed, 16 November 2016 - #4290201

No, really! I think I saw it move! Beat it some more!!!

:lol:

I don't know how many of those threads Ive read so far.

Smith Micro is mainly selling software, and mostly to people who don't post here in this forum,. How much money do they make? No idea, but from the frequency of service releases they are doing fine.

Is there really much more to say about this?

bantha posted at 3:58PM Thu, 17 November 2016 - #4290226

I don't know how many of those threads Ive read so far.

Smith Micro is mainly selling software, and mostly to people who don't post here in this forum,. How much money do they make? No idea, but from the frequency of service releases they are doing fine.

** Is there really much more to say about this?**

So it would seem. :

Nothing left to do except to get on that dead horse and WAR !!!

.

Not sure about dead horse - reading these threads over the years thinking more of cat scratching poll. Poser vs DS - kitty poll BTW very cool artwork RorrKonn.

I'm gonna start posting cat pics in a bit.

ironsoul posted at 6:31PM Thu, 17 November 2016 - #4290264

Not sure about dead horse - reading these threads over the years thinking more of cat scratching poll. Poser vs DS - kitty poll BTW very cool artwork RorrKonn.

My bad ,My bad .I should have said there not my Art works ,but I do agree there cool thou.